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Took a shot at 5/10 cause the game looked good then was put in a tough spot. http://weaktight.com/4391888 I don't really have any reads on the villain but I know he's a reg. First of all is my betsizing ok? We're 150bb deep so should I be betting bigger as a standard? On the river I'm getting more than 3 to 1 but are people really bluffing often enough?
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Feb 20, 2012 03:43
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Strong Sauce posted:Unless Gutshot and Victoria has recently changed they've been known to have "no coffeehouse" rules. Could depend on the dealer I guess as I have seen it done at the Vic without any repercussions. Haven't played enough at the International to know their rules.
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Feb 20, 2012 04:54
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dsquash posted:Took a shot at 5/10 cause the game looked good then was put in a tough spot. Don't think you are getting bluffed and I doubt he is value raising worse (only KQ/KT which probably just call) so looks like a fold. Flop sizing is interesting. I tend to lean towards 2/3 (110ish) pot to build it up and I don't think it will change villain's calling range any but I definitely don't hate your sizing. I would probably bet a bit bigger on the turn also. Also would anyone ever check the turn? Disclaimer: My main game is not online 6 max cash
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Feb 20, 2012 07:32
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I'd want to know how long he's been at the table with you and what has gone on in that time. What does he think of you? Hands that beat you. JJ 3bets pre on btn a good percentage so lets just give him 1 of the 3 combos. 88 (3 combos) 55 (3 combos) KJo (5 combos) K8o (4 combos) KJs (2 combos) K8s (2 combos) =20 total combos. Hands you beat. You having the Ac in your hand hurts a call as it gets rid of like 8 of his fd combos. A2-A7cc and A9cc, ATcc. But there are at least 20 combos of missed sc/sg FDs especially with the 1/2 pot bets on flop and turn. 43cc-97cc and Q7cc+( and more like 27 if you include hands like J7cc taking this line on the river. A good % of his sc and suited gapper hands have a jack in them. I guess he can still do this with some of them but I think some of the jacks maybe just call. Does QJcc do this?) ~23ish hands you beat. There's also 2 combos of AKs and 2 of AKo remaining. I really don't think any of his other kings jam but some may disagree with me. 4 combos you chop with. There's also gonna be some random 8x/99 type hands that he's turned into a bluff some percentage of the time on the river. Probably a call. The thing I don't like about this though is that while each of these hands you beat is certainly possible for him and in his btn range he's definently not calling with all these hands 100% of the time whereas with the range that beats you he is. He's never folding KJo pre on btn but is sometimes not gonna call with 75s. So its actually pretty close I think. I'm pretty interested what the others have to say about this hand. AARO fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Feb 20, 2012 |
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Feb 20, 2012 16:47
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I think I would check turn some percentage of the time, but it's villain dependent for certain. As played to river I think I ch/c, since I don't think we lose much if any value from other Kx hands (they should bet if we check the river) and we give busted draws a chance to stab. We're unlikely to get any more value from small/middle pairs that ch/c twice, so there's not really a reason to bet river targetting them, I think. As always, if we had more history with villain, that would certainly change things.
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Feb 20, 2012 17:36
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There's not really much history between us. I've 3bet him a couple times he folded once preflop and once on the flop. I've seen him at 1/2 before so he might think I'm scared money playing above my limit (probably true a bit).
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Feb 21, 2012 02:17
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I think folding is fine but it's a bit of a hero fold. Our range looks strong and I don't think people expect us to fold many Kx here.
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Feb 21, 2012 04:23
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ZeroStar posted:I think folding is fine but it's a bit of a hero fold. Our range looks strong and I don't think people expect us to fold many Kx here. This is kind of what I was thinking. Against good regs won't they start crushing you if they start to pick up on you needing full houses to call here?
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Feb 21, 2012 04:58
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We aren't playing fold and show poker, this situation will not come up often enough for them to figure out you folded a good K and weren't barreling or folded KTs or something.
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Feb 21, 2012 05:11
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Yeah I was a little worried about being exploitable by folding AK since I'm very near the top of my range but I guess it doesn't matter cause they can't figure out what you're folding over such a small sample like Stefan Prodan said. Anyway I called and he had 55 for the turned full house.
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Feb 21, 2012 05:52
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Live Game, Freeroll, Blinds 1000/2000 All fold to BTN BTN calls $2k, $15k left (Weak Tight) SB Completes, $35-40k left (Nit) BB Check, $30k left (Hero, 9  7 )Flop: 5 57 Pot: $6k SB Check Hero bets $5k BTN pauses, then goes all in BB folds Hero calls $10k BTN shows down aces, they hold up through the river. The $5k was obviously in hopes I wouldn't have to see the turn, or at least have momentum on BTN if the turn was a brick. The call is the one that's bothering me. In retrospect, I probably should've mucked since it was coming from a passive player and I already had a tight table image established. However, it also could've been a suicide shove to a six-outer, and BTN was, in fact, presenting such an image. Priced in or dumb to call? Or something in between, I guess. e: BTN's range here is est. at any pocket, any two face cards, suited connectors down to about 87, maybe some one gappers down to J9. Very typical of someone who's read enough to know what a crap hand is but hasn't had the practice to know what to do with them. Not very likely she'd call with complete trash. Probably capable of raising a premium hand in that spot but she's been limping all night. Chokes McGee fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Feb 24, 2012 |
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Feb 24, 2012 04:18
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$110+20 live tourney Blinds are 500/1000 with 50 ante, 8 handed. I'm in the top 5 in chips and chip leader at the table. Villain is relatively new to the table but has seen me raise a couple of times to win the blinds and antes. Villain has about 32k in the BB, I have about 38k UTG+1 with A  T.UTG folds, I raise to 4k. Folds to villain to who makes it 10k. I call. Flop is 9 53.Villain goes all in for his last 22k. I...?
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Feb 24, 2012 08:49
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Did we decide not to post sng/mtt hands in the sng/mtt thread?
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Feb 24, 2012 09:12
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discstickers posted:$110+20 live tourney
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Feb 24, 2012 15:39
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Ranma posted:I'm bad at short stack play but I think preflop is a jam or a fold we might get aj or 99 type hands to fold and we are never that comfortable when we hut and the money vies in Yeah flatting pre is terrible.
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Feb 24, 2012 16:12
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Also does your original raise need to be that big? 4x is a pretty big raise preflop when the big stack has only 38 BBs. I can understand a 4x raise when stacks are deeper.
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Feb 24, 2012 17:14
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Ranma posted:I'm bad at short stack play but I think preflop is a jam or a fold we might get aj or 99 type hands to fold and we are never that comfortable when we hut and the money vies in We're both relatively deep...
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Feb 24, 2012 17:15
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I think he means you should either 4-bet jam or fold to his 3-bet. What are you hoping to accomplish by flatting his 3-bet?
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Feb 24, 2012 17:29
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38bb isn't deep, especially with antes. Definitely raise smaller and fold to the re-raise pre. Not too sure what to do on the flop.
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Feb 24, 2012 17:45
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All of this doesn't change the fact that you are putting in 1/4 of your stack preflop with ATo. You might have some fold equity if you push preflop but otherwise fold to the reraise and wait for a better spot. On the flop you have two overs and a flush draw, I'd guess for a pot size bet I'm calling here and cringing when he flips over something like KK with Kc, but I would try not to get in this spot in the first place.
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Feb 24, 2012 20:02
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MAN OF MANY MOUTHS posted:38bb isn't deep, especially with antes. Definitely raise smaller and fold to the re-raise pre. Not too sure what to do on the flop. Am I really nitty for wanting to fold A10o UTG+1 8 handed? Why are we raising smaller when there are so many people to act after us?
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Feb 24, 2012 22:58
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sc4rs posted:Am I really nitty for wanting to fold A10o UTG+1 8 handed? Why are we raising smaller when there are so many people to act after us? Nope you're not at all nitty. If the table is playing back at you a bunch, or is just loose in general, it's very reasonable (some might even say standard) to fold ATo up front. Hell, even if it isn't playing back at you a bunch it's fine. I think the table has to be nittier than average to make this a slam-dunk open. Also, we're raising smaller when there are so many people to act after us because we're probably going to have to fold to a 3bet (flatting here is awful, his range crushes us if he's not the world's biggest spewmonkey; even then we're not in great shape, and we're not deep enough to exploit our positional advantage). Essentially, opening smaller is a trade-off you might be willing to make here: you trade the slightly increased possibility that someone will flat behind you with position for the reduced number of chips you risk attempting to steal. If people's 3betting ranges are inelastic and nutted (in a $110 live mtt they probably are) they're going to 3-bet your utg+1 open with the same range whether you open to 2x or 4x, so you may as well save the 2 bbs when they happen to wake up with a hand. Also, EngineerSean I disagree with calling the jam, calling the flop getting 2:1 is a fold. Sure, we have a flush draw and two overs, but think about his 3betting range here. It's going to be nutted; there will be a lot of better aces and overpairs in it. Thus, when he has a club, it's almost always going to be bigger than the Tc and we're drawing to not many outs. When he doesn't, well, some of those times he's going to give up because it's a $110 mtt and he might just think "oh poo poo 3 clubs he could have a flush I can't make a flush gotta check fold." Unamuno fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Feb 25, 2012 |
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Feb 25, 2012 00:49
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Definitely think the flat pre was bad. I thought about getting it in, but didn't think ATo as the right hand. Kicking myself today. I called and he had J J. Turn was a 4, river K.
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Feb 25, 2012 07:40
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Unamuno posted:Also, EngineerSean I disagree with calling the jam, calling the flop getting 2:1 is a fold. Sure, we have a flush draw and two overs, but think about his 3betting range here. It's going to be nutted; there will be a lot of better aces and overpairs in it. Thus, when he has a club, it's almost always going to be bigger than the Tc and we're drawing to not many outs. When he doesn't, well, some of those times he's going to give up because it's a $110 mtt and he might just think "oh poo poo 3 clubs he could have a flush I can't make a flush gotta check fold." You are correct, should have tried to put him on a range before saying something.
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Feb 25, 2012 07:51
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Chokes McGee posted:Live Game, Freeroll, Blinds 1000/2000 I think betting 5k is waaay too big on this flop. May as well bet 2k. I think you might be able to fold to the btn shove if you bet 2k, depending on the player. I don't think passive players are particularly apt to just ram and jam two overs in a freeroll, but I could be wrong about that. When you bet 5k you're closer to priced in, but could still find a fold.
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Feb 25, 2012 10:49
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Unamuno posted:Nope you're not at all nitty. If the table is playing back at you a bunch, or is just loose in general, it's very reasonable (some might even say standard) to fold ATo up front. Hell, even if it isn't playing back at you a bunch it's fine. I think the table has to be nittier than average to make this a slam-dunk open. Ah okay, this makes a lot more sense than my line of thought. ("We're opening smaller so they think we have a premium hand and we're playing it like an idiot?") Thanks for this explanation, it's helped me think about betsizing OOP more which is something that I probably could stand to improve!
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Feb 25, 2012 13:25
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sc4rs posted:("We're opening smaller so they think we have a premium hand and we're playing it like an idiot?") This isn't really a thought process. A thought process looks more like "My hand is X, their range is {range}, my hand looks like {range}, if I do {thing} my hand will look like {range} because Y and they will do Z because ____ which is good because ____"
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Feb 25, 2012 22:21
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Unamuno posted:I think betting 5k is waaay too big on this flop. May as well bet 2k. I think you might be able to fold to the btn shove if you bet 2k, depending on the player. I don't think passive players are particularly apt to just ram and jam two overs in a freeroll, but I could be wrong about that. When you bet 5k you're closer to priced in, but could still find a fold. Yeah, for 2k instead I definitely would've bailed out if she shoved. She probably would've called as a setup or because she feared a 5 at that price, but I also probably shut down after the flop since it's a weak hand to get called with OOP. Thanks! 
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Feb 26, 2012 07:53
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I think this is pretty standard but I wanted a line check. Villain is a pretty huge/passive fish, folds alot to c bets, but sticks around if he catches any half decent piece of the flop. I had no idea what the half pot river bet meant but it looked like a blocking bet, is shipping for value here fine? PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players Hand converted by PokerTracker 3 SB: $10.00 BB: $12.01 UTG: $52.18 CO: $17.57 Hero (BTN): $25.92 SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25 Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has 7:heart: 5:heart: fold, CO calls $0.25,Hero raises to $0.75, fold, fold, CO calls $0.50 Flop: ($1.85, 2 players) 4:club: 3:spade: J:heart: CO checks, Hero bets $1.00, CO calls $1.00 Turn: ($3.85, 2 players) 6:club: CO checks, Hero bets $2.50, CO calls $2.50 River: ($8.85, 2 players) 3:club: CO bets $4.75, Hero raises to $16.25, CO calls $8.57 and is all-in
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Feb 26, 2012 23:57
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Also, has anyone else been noticing people checking back the flop, then raising a turn bet, only to fold to a re-raise, a river bet, or show down a pure bluff? Cause its happened to me like 4 times today and I'm wondering if its some new thing.
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Feb 27, 2012 01:44
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TheAbortionator posted:I think this is pretty standard but I wanted a line check. TheAbortionator posted:Also, has anyone else been noticing people checking back the flop, then raising a turn bet, only to fold to a re-raise, a river bet, or show down a pure bluff? People don't want to cbet too much as it is exploitable -> so they check back some flops -> opponents realize this is usually weak, bet turns super wide -> villains start raising air -> get owned cause they're so polarized
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Feb 27, 2012 05:20
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Perhaps I'm missing value in these spots but when a passive fish wakes up after the board pairs and the backdoor flush gets there, I'm just calling the river with a straight. Does he have anything other than trips, boat or a flush here? Shoving seems too thin to me but then one of my leaks does seem to be leaving money on the table so....
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Feb 27, 2012 10:04
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Live 1/2, 400bb effective stacks: Hero has TAG/winning image, only been caught bluffing once and has made some really thin value bets. Doubt either villain is paying attention though. Villain 1 is UTG and is a Chinese guy who chases all draws, and tends to slowplay/be trappy. Villain 2 on btn is playing like 99% VPIP, he is a middle-aged Vietnamese guy who had disappeared for 2.5hours to play baccarat where he "had a $300 cup of coffee". Hero is BB with A A. Limps 5 ways, hero raises to 16. UTG calls folds to btn.Flop: Q 64I cbet 35, utg quickly calls (his range is all draws and literally any piece of flop down to 43) and btn snap raises to 140 (fairly certain this was first time he had raised all night in ~5hours of play). He starts shaking a bit, leans towards table, and looks fairly excited. I ask him if he likes his hand, he gets a big smile on his face and says "I like all my hands!". I cannot continue here without A right? With AQ plan should be raise get it in even though if called by UTG he likely has flush blockers? I would also say I have close to zero FE vs. the Vietnamese guy.TheAbortionator posted:I think this is pretty standard but I wanted a line check. If he's very passive pre (like VPIP >40) I like raising a lot more preflop, with your hand 3x + 1x is fine but with anything of value make it like 1.25-1.50. This may even be a decent spot to see how much you can get with raising pre...if he's folding a lot to cebts then make it huge pre and just get tons of value when he folds the flop or even more when he hits and you have a premium. Our hand does well multiway but it's usually most profitable to just iso the fish IP and get him to c-fold.
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Feb 27, 2012 10:09
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Dr. Eat posted:Live 1/2, 400bb effective stacks:
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Feb 27, 2012 10:56
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Strong Sauce posted:AsQs has an overall equity of something like 45/54 against two pair and set hands. Maybe he will fold some of the worst part of his two pair range but you don't really want to shove unless you're OK with flipping (with a bad coin in this case) for 400BB. So with TPTK + NF draw are we peeling after he raises? C-folding blank turns seems so gross when we still have decent amount of equity...at the same time so many cards can kill our action + we're OOP. In game I mucked da rockets on flop...playing deep is so hard but live reads ftw =/ edit: also with the money already in pot i don't really need to be ahead for it to be a +EV flip no? not sure the amount of equity i need but can figure it out later. still would be quite sick to lose. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Feb 27, 2012 |
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Feb 27, 2012 11:10
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Another hand from my Cambodia live poker adventure! Game has been 6 handed for a while, there is one Vietnamese whale at table 1k deep, the "I like all my hands guy!" is 800 deep, a random tourist, a 2+2er who is solid TAG, LAG 2/5 reg who covers table, and me. I don't have much history with the LAG but he's a 20something aussieasian guy. I had seen him 3bet isolate QTx vs the whale and he is quite aggro postflop. I think he sees me as a solid player, I have a good winning image but we really haven't played too many hands against eachother. Hand before I had bet->folded to 3bet from the 2+2er. Next hand I open to 12 in MP with AQ have ~650 behind. Fish flats on btn, Young guy 3bets to 36, I call to play IP vs him and cause I know he can be light here. Fish calls. I think my flat is standard and I don't think 4betting blocker hands is that good in live cash + building a huge pot vs. a good player when I'm at a great table.Flop Q8Xr, one club. he bets 75, i call and plan on folding unless I improve, btn folds. Turn: 7 . Guy bets $175. I call with 350 or so behind. I think I should be folding here as well if I didn't pick up nutflush draw.River: offsuit 9, he quickly shoves. I show my cards and he doesn't seemed disturbed or anything. Couldn't get much of a read on him. Am I good here the 20% of the time I need to make this call? Shouldn't he be checking the KQ/QJ hands I beat on either turn or river? My play on all the other streets is standard right? Is anyone capable of 3bet then triple barrel bluffing in live 1/2 >300bb deep? Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Mar 1, 2012 |
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Mar 1, 2012 10:04
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Dr. Eat posted:i call and plan on folding unless I improve, btn folds. quote:I show my cards and he doesn't seemed disturbed or anything. Couldn't get much of a read on him. quote:20% of the time I need to make this call? [(964 in pot and we have to call 350 = 20%)] quote:KQ/QJ hands 
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Mar 1, 2012 11:10
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math was off whatever. and there is nothing wrong with folding turn when you know a guy is likely to shove river and make you play for >300bb with TPTK. i don't understand how calling flop with TPTK/backdoor NF draw is bad at all, but not thinking it's good enough to call down three streets with in a 3bet pot. especially when he knows that i know he's aggro. and yea its superbad to show people in a game you're a tourist when you're thinking about a close call i'm sure  there is plenty of stuff you can do to gain edges in live poker that you can't do online. showing cards, asking someone to show a card, using table talk, etc.. if he does put me on a hand like tens-jacks (which calling flop and turn is fine with against described villain), and he has a worse queen than me, than yea he should be checking one street. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Mar 1, 2012 |
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Mar 1, 2012 11:24
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You've described him as "seriously aggro postflop." I'd consider raising flop or shipping turn if you think he can barrel with air / TT-JJ / KQ-QJ / or even JT kinds of hands. It probably saves you some agony, and on the river you don't beat 99 any more either. Raising flop lets you fold to a 3bet cheaply if you are inclined to believe him for whatever reason, and offers you an opportunity to engage in livetell shenanigans if that's your preference.
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Mar 1, 2012 16:52
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Dr. Eat posted:if he does put me on a hand like tens-jacks (which calling flop and turn is fine with against described villain), and he has a worse queen than me, than yea he should be checking one street. Fundamental Theorem of Poker posted:Every time you play a hand differently from the way you would have played it if you could see all your opponents' cards, they gain; and every time you play your hand the same way you would have played it if you could see all their cards, they lose. Conversely, every time opponents play their hands differently from the way they would have if they could see all your cards, you gain; and every time they play their hands the same way they would have played if they could see all your cards, you lose.
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Mar 1, 2012 16:55
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