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DIEGETIC SPACEMAN posted:Does anyone ever not act like an rear end in a top hat to Darcy in the beginning of the game? Every time he says Mikey I just want to put 6 shots in his forehead. His and Mina's bonus training mission seem like they were intended to be something else - the dialogue that comes up (especially in Mina's one) suggests that something slightly different was supposed to be happening to what did in the end. Presumably another couple of casualties of stuff that had to be cut for time.
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Mar 30, 2012 11:50
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 00:20 |
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When I win the Mega Millions I'm financing a sequel to this game. Sign the pledge!
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Mar 30, 2012 12:09
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Fil5000 posted:His and Mina's bonus training mission seem like they were intended to be something else - the dialogue that comes up (especially in Mina's one) suggests that something slightly different was supposed to be happening to what did in the end. Presumably another couple of casualties of stuff that had to be cut for time. Wait, Mina has a bonus training mission? I've never seen that, I've only ever gotten the basic 'run around on the course shooting targets' one.
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Mar 30, 2012 19:09
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vyelkin posted:Wait, Mina has a bonus training mission? I've never seen that, I've only ever gotten the basic 'run around on the course shooting targets' one. Yes. And it's funny.
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Mar 30, 2012 19:13
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vyelkin posted:Wait, Mina has a bonus training mission? I've never seen that, I've only ever gotten the basic 'run around on the course shooting targets' one. All of the 3 training missions have bonus missions. Mina, Darcy and Parker offer them to you if you score at least 100 on the regular course.
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Mar 30, 2012 19:37
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drat, I guess I was never that good at shooting things.
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Mar 30, 2012 19:41
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vyelkin posted:drat, I guess I was never that good at shooting things. The trick is that waiting for a critical to line up will always get you a higher score than speedily blasting your way through the course. Generally, if you're shooting at something and you aren't lining up a critical, you're just wasting bullets and time. Wait for the pistol crits to line up, get a critical hit with your rifle shots, get the knockdown bonus for letting your shotgun charge up.
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Mar 30, 2012 19:43
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vyelkin posted:drat, I guess I was never that good at shooting things. It's not that easy, I've had to retry the course at least once every time I've played AP. The timing of Mina's dialogue and the targets popping up speeds up a bit after your first try, so use the first run to memorize where the targets pop up from then retry and kick some rear end. For the pistol area, take your time and line up the shot first. You can miss one shot and get by, but that's it (you gotta compensate for the almost guaranteed missed shots with the SMG, and 1 or 2 from the assault rifle). For the shotgun firing range, try to get a critical shot on each pair of targets (the first will be a crit, the second will be close). Wait until the targets are lined up in the middle before firing, if it takes more than 2 shots to take down the 4 targets then you're doing it wrong. When you're running to the next firing range you can just get close and shoot the 2 targets without stopping and aiming, the shotgun's spread means you don't have to be too accurate here. With the SMG, just tap the fire button when you're taking down the targets. It's tempting to hold it down and mow down the first 5 that pop up, but the missed shots will hurt your final score. When the targets pop up in the doorway aim for the one on the right (maybe someone else can confirm this, but I'm 99% sure the target on the left is bugged and will be "hit" on its own). For the assault rifle, you don't have to move your crosshairs much from where the first target pops up. Don't stop aiming down the sights until the targets pop up on the roof, the bit of accuracy it'll add is vital to hitting the targets without missing any shots.
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Mar 30, 2012 20:23
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Parker's is the one I always get mixed up on as he only offers it after you've said you don't want to run the course again.
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Mar 30, 2012 21:01
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Holy poo poo. I didn't know that (Rome spoilers!) if you are friendly with Marburg and act profesionally, he will offer you a job with Halbech when you visit his villa. You automatically turn him down, of course, but it's still pretty awesome how friendly he acts. Until he orders his goons to beat the crap out of you, anyway! Also this was the first time I had Sie as my handler during that mission. It was very funny.
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Mar 31, 2012 01:06
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DIEGETIC SPACEMAN posted:Does anyone ever not act like an rear end in a top hat to Darcy in the beginning of the game? Every time he says Mikey I just want to put 6 shots in his forehead. I think my favorite thing to do on Darcy's training mission is to chuck grenades in the window above where you get your first grenades. They break through the glass and set off alarms and I swear it looked like I hit someone up there 
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Mar 31, 2012 01:13
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As requested reposting this from the Wasteland thread:Doc Hawkins posted:You're forgetting the one that no one (in the SA thread anyway) noticed for months and months afterwards: WARNING SPOILER IS CLASSIFIED COSMIC TOP SECRET DO NOT READ Halbech has an agent in Taipei, and it's Heck. My response: I would say you're mistaken like the poster you quoted, so could you link your evidence? Also, Sega owns the rights to Alpha Protocol. They're too busy ruining their other properties to bother. I'm really hoping Obsidian eventually comes out with their own Kickstarter next month. There need to be more creator-owned IPs.
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Mar 31, 2012 07:28
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Merry Magpie posted:As requested reposting this from the Wasteland thread: There's no out and out evidence, but somebody laid out the case: Deng and Mike seem to be pitted up against each other, and Deng talks about receiving information showing Mike to be the traitor; there is a source feeding information to both Deng and Mike that gets them fighting each other as a distraction from the actual shooter. Heck is the person giving you most of your leads in Taipei. Also, if you reveal Scarlet as working for Halbech and have Heck shoot her, he says something along the lines of "Yeah, I knew she was working for Halbech all along, I figured you were just playing dumb so you could hit that". Also Leland is not at all surprised to know about Heck's involvement in events in Taipei, and even seems to know a few things that Mike doesn't seem to get. When somebody pointed this out to Avellone on Twitter, he just responded "That does sound like something that character would do, doesn't it?"
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Mar 31, 2012 08:54
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Honestly, I thought the whole thing was an amusing idea, and Heck obviously just a confabulating psycho, but then I got a "Thorton Inc" kind of ending, and didn't kill Leland right away. There's a bit where Mike lists all of the cool contacts and allies he's got now, and when he mentions Steven, the dialogue actually pauses just so Leland can have a huge  reaction shot That blew my puny mind.E: oh yeah, just in case anyone follows this thread and not the wasteland 2 thread, the reason this even came up is now Tim Cain, Chris Avellone, and the rest of the Obsidian gang might be invited into the Wasteland 2 playground, but only if you open your hears and wallets and donate now, so go kickstart the gently caress out of that poo poo. Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Mar 31, 2012 |
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Mar 31, 2012 08:57
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God drat this game. Is there anyone in this game that isn't trying to play me? Besides Madison?
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Mar 31, 2012 09:01
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general chaos posted:God drat this game. Nope. Everyone is trying to use you. EVERYONE. Welcome to the spy world!
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Mar 31, 2012 09:03
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Crappy Jack posted:There's no out and out evidence, but somebody laid out the case: Deng and Mike seem to be pitted up against each other, and Deng talks about receiving information showing Mike to be the traitor; there is a source feeding information to both Deng and Mike that gets them fighting each other as a distraction from the actual shooter. Heck is the person giving you most of your leads in Taipei. Also, if you reveal Scarlet as working for Halbech and have Heck shoot her, he says something along the lines of "Yeah, I knew she was working for Halbech all along, I figured you were just playing dumb so you could hit that". Also Leland is not at all surprised to know about Heck's involvement in events in Taipei, and even seems to know a few things that Mike doesn't seem to get. It does go against character. Heck is crazy, unpredictable, and unsubtle. Leland agreeing to work with someone who couldn't be relied on would be completely out of character. It's pretty flimsy. Doc Hawkins posted:Honestly, I thought the whole thing was an amusing idea, and Heck obviously just a confabulating psycho, but then I got a "Thorton Inc" kind of ending, and didn't kill Leland right away. There's a bit where Mike lists all of the cool contacts and allies he's got now, and when he mentions Steven, the dialogue actually pauses just so Leland can have a huge Yes! If you haven't already donated money to the Wasteland kickstarter, please consider it. As much as I'd prefer an original Obsidian title with IP rights, the two aren't mutually exclusive.
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Mar 31, 2012 09:17
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Merry Magpie posted:It does go against character. Heck is crazy, unpredictable, and unsubtle. Leland agreeing to work with someone who couldn't be relied on would be completely out of character. It's pretty flimsy. Is he, though? Or is appearing unpredictable the way that he puts up an effective smokescreen? If you're trying to be the person that nobody would ever suspect of being a mastermind, wouldn't the best strategy be not to come off like the kind of person who would be a mastermind? Even your dossier admits that nobody's really sure if Heck is a legitimate crazy person, or else the world's greatest secret agent who pretends to be a legitimate crazy person. Do the Taipei missions and watch how Leland reacts whenever you bring up Heck in the interviews. Leland practically blows a vein trying to dodge the topic and change the subject. Crappy Jack fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Mar 31, 2012 |
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Mar 31, 2012 09:20
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Crappy Jack posted:Is he, though? Or is appearing unpredictable the way that he puts up an effective smokescreen? If you're trying to be the person that nobody would ever suspect of being a mastermind, wouldn't the best strategy be not to come off like the kind of person who would be a mastermind? Even your dossier admits that nobody's really sure if Heck is a legitimate crazy person, or else the world's greatest secret agent who pretends to be a secret agent. Do the Taipei missions and watch how Leland reacts whenever you bring up Heck in the interviews. Leland practically blows a vein trying to dodge the topic and change the subject. Are we even talking about the same person? Need I remind you, he strapped a minigun to a subway car to arrange a drive-by? He's not exactly a nuanced, subtle guy. Having a madman ruin all your plans? That must be galling.
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Mar 31, 2012 09:24
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Merry Magpie posted:Are we even talking about the same person? Whoever said Heck ruined any plans? What plans did he ruin? On that same mission, you're captured by Omen Deng, who seems like he was expecting you. Like somebody clued him in to your presence. Possibly even the same person who sent you on Deng's trail in the first place. The same guy who straps a minigun to a subway car in order to blast the hell out of some Chinese Secret Police. The same Secret Police who were trying to stop the Halbech-sanctioned assassination of President Sung. Heck used you and Deng as bait to draw each other out into the open.
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Mar 31, 2012 09:31
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Merry Magpie posted:It does go against character. Heck is crazy, unpredictable, and unsubtle. Leland agreeing to work with someone who couldn't be relied on would be completely out of character. It's pretty flimsy. "Oh, I figured you were just pretending to not know she was the assassin, so you'd have a chance to seduce her, so I just rolled with that" is many things, but 'unsubtle' is none of them.
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Mar 31, 2012 09:32
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Honestly, way I see it, if those spoilers are true, is that it's all an act that Heck is setting up to fool everyone. Or, at least, Thorton. After all, who'd expect the loud-mouth, bragging, mini-gun-subway-riding idiot? I'll admit that Leland's look aside at the end of the 'inc' ending does stand out alot from all the others. And the game's subtle enough to add a small touch like that.
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Mar 31, 2012 09:37
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Crappy Jack posted:Whoever said Heck ruined any plans? What plans did he ruin? On that same mission, you're captured by Omen Deng, who seems like he was expecting you. Like somebody clued him in to your presence. Possibly even the same person who sent you on Deng's trail in the first place. The same guy who straps a minigun to a subway car in order to blast the hell out of some Chinese Secret Police. The same Secret Police who were trying to stop the Halbech-sanctioned assassination of President Sung. Heck used you and Deng as bait to draw each other out into the open. Halbech's. Heck is Thorton's primary contact in Taipei. His assistance while unorthodox is necessary to complete the area. You're also forgetting a far more ideal candidate that we know works for Halbech.
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Mar 31, 2012 09:41
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Merry Magpie posted:Halbech's. Heck is Thorton's primary contact in Taipei. His assistance while unorthodox is necessary to complete the area. You're also forgetting a far more ideal candidate that we know works for Halbech. You mean Halbech's plan to assassinate President Sung and use the resulting chaos to destabilize the region? The one that goes off without a hitch because you and Omen Deng, the only two people who could've stopped it, were too busy fighting each other based on the false intel they both received saying that the other person was the assassin? And then when Heck shows up at the end to save you from Scarlet, he just magically somehow already knows that she was the assassin behind it all? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJtqFRxpq1s&t=3m19s He's even the one to bring up the whole assassin thing in the first place. Thorton himself didn't even know she was behind it until maybe ten minutes ago, and he only learns it either from Scarlet herself or from Omen Deng's investigation. Heck is either a supergenius who managed to figure the whole thing out without any outside assistance, or else he was in on the plot to begin with and knew who was involved. poptart_fairy posted:Over a year later we're still arguing about these things. This loving Stephen Heck. Crappy Jack fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Mar 31, 2012 |
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Mar 31, 2012 09:47
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Over a year later we're still arguing about these things.  Obsidian
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Mar 31, 2012 09:50
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Crappy Jack posted:You mean Halbech's plan to assassinate President Sung and use the resulting chaos to destabilize the region? The one that goes off without a hitch because you and Omen Deng, the only two people who could've stopped it, were too busy fighting each other based on the false intel they both received saying that the other person was the assassin? And then when Heck shows up at the end to save you from Scarlet, he just magically somehow already knows that she was the assassin behind it all? So your argument that a character works for Halbech requires that said character's boss and fellow employee die. Horribly. It seems counterproductive. This is not how you support a theory. Also, the player can prevent the assassination. VVVV There is only one time that Heck betrays the player. If he dislikes Thorton, he'll name names about the Sung incident. Otherwise, he'll cover for Thorton. Either way, he tells Thorton of his decision. Merry Magpie fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Mar 31, 2012 |
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Mar 31, 2012 09:55
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Merry Magpie posted:So your argument that a character works for Halbech requires that said character's boss and fellow employee die. Horribly. Yes, nobody ever switches sides in Alpha Protocol, nor is it possible that a free agent like Heck would turn on his employer once his contract is up. Which is exactly what Scarlet does in the exact same scene, by the way. Heck is not neck deep in Halbech connections. Heck is a freelance agent in Taipei who is hired by Halbech to throw any newcomers to Taipei off Halbech's trail. Once the assassination happens, Heck's work is done and he can go back to doing whatever the hell he wants, including joining Mike on a fun job to raid a top secret government facility and shoot a bunch of people. Merry Magpie posted:Also, the player can prevent the assassination. Leland knows this, too, and you saw how much he sweated when it happened. His job was to destabilize the region, which happens in the short term either way. Remember the full scale riots that happen if Sung lives but you don't increase the guard? EDIT: You keep setting them up and I'll keep knocking them down, chief. I didn't play through AP 12 times for nothing. Crappy Jack fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Mar 31, 2012 |
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Mar 31, 2012 09:59
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Crappy Jack posted:EDIT: You keep setting them up and I'll keep knocking them down, chief. I didn't play through AP 12 times for nothing. It is actually mildly amusing to see how far you'll go to support this idea of yours. It has been a while since I really talked AP. Continuing from the above post: If Heck was working with Halbech, wouldn't Halbech instruct him to insinuate Thorton's guilt? Covering for him would be opposite Halbech's goals and there would be no way to do both. Merry Magpie fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Mar 31, 2012 |
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Mar 31, 2012 10:05
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Merry Magpie posted:It does go against character. Heck is crazy, unpredictable, and unsubtle. It's a feature of the game that you, Thorton, adopt different attitudes and behaviours in order to manipulate other NPCs and further your own goals. The most obvious example is acting like a wildcard to rattle Marburg in Rome. It's also a feature of the game that NPCs overtly use these tactics against you, like Surkov and Scarlet. Why is Heck somehow exempt from this? If we're being honest, it seems more unlikely that he really is the guileless maniac that he comes across as. You're absolutely right that Leland would never employ someone unreliable, and neither would any other agency. So doesn't it seem likely that maybe there's more to Heck than meets the eye?
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Mar 31, 2012 16:10
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Merry Magpie posted:Continuing from the above post: If Heck was working with Halbech, wouldn't Halbech instruct him to insinuate Thorton's guilt? Covering for him would be opposite Halbech's goals and there would be no way to do both. And yet he does? Jack just pointed out that the region is destabilized even if Heck fingers Wen instead of Mike. Since Heck is freelance, why would he go out of his way to help Halbech? His dossier even mentions that he prefers trading in favors rather than money.
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Mar 31, 2012 16:33
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Merry Magpie posted:It is actually mildly amusing to see how far you'll go to support this idea of yours. It has been a while since I really talked AP. At least if you became bros during the sequence (who wouldn't, I have no clue if this happens if you aren't friends with Heck), Heck throws a wrench in that second part by using his connections to throw his errand boy under the bus so Thorton can get out of town. There is no point in the game where Halbech isn't actively wanting Thorton dead or in prison except for brief moments becoming bros with Marburg so its hard to believe this wasn't a key part of the plan.
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Mar 31, 2012 16:37
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Unrelated, but Wasteland 2 might get Avellone and others on board to write for it if they hit 2.1 million in pledges. ... So... get on it!
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Mar 31, 2012 16:40
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Fuzz posted:Unrelated, but Wasteland 2 might get Avellone and others on board to write for it if they hit 2.1 million in pledges. I think this was posted and bogged down in spoiler talk.
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Mar 31, 2012 17:00
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zedprime posted:That's the most ironclad argument I could think of. Halbech's intention in the region is to destablize it, and also get rid of two thorns in their side who presumably have dirt against Halbech. This explains Scarlet working with you to get you set up to duel Deng at the most obvious point for a sniper to be set up, with the victor framed as the assassin. Or if they figured out they were actually bros, then they are framed as a team as snipers so often work. In complete agreement. At the core of Jack's argument is the assumption that Halbech would ever hire Heck. We can argue the nature of Heck's nebulous character all we want, but it will come to nothing if the initial assumption is incorrect. So to repeat myself: It does go against character. Heck is crazy, unpredictable, and unsubtle. Leland agreeing to work with someone who couldn't be relied on would be completely out of character.
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Mar 31, 2012 17:04
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Heck's effective, and "seems to know everything that happens in Taipei." Leland/Parker are both into using the right tools for the job, and need something done in Taipei. In fact, they need to sow chaos and fear. Hmm!
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Mar 31, 2012 17:15
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Doc Hawkins posted:Heck's effective, and "seems to know everything that happens in Taipei." Leland/Parker are both into using the right tools for the job, and need something done in Taipei. In fact, they need to sow chaos and fear. Hmm! This is getting silly. Parker? The most dispassionate and logical character would opt for an ostentatious madman with no discernible connection to any known intelligence agency? They're trying to sow chaos not spur xenophobic sentiments. Merry Magpie fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Mar 31, 2012 |
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Mar 31, 2012 17:32
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zedprime posted:At least if you became bros during the sequence (who wouldn't, I have no clue if this happens if you aren't friends with Heck), Heck throws a wrench in that second part by using his connections to throw his errand boy under the bus so Thorton can get out of town. Lmao at the thought that Wen is merely Heck's errand boy. Merry Magpie posted:In complete agreement. "Heck is crazy, unpredictable, and unsubtle" and "Heck acts crazy, unpredictable, and unsubtle" are different things. We know the latter is true, but the former may or may not be. Edit: quote:This is getting silly. Parker? The most dispassionate and logical character would opt for an ostentatious madman with no discernible connection to any known intelligence agency? They're trying to sow chaos not spur xenophobic sentiments. You can't at least consider the possibility that Heck is not actually as he seems? Like Surkov, Scarlet, and Thornton himself are not? gohuskies fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Mar 31, 2012 |
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Mar 31, 2012 17:35
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gohuskies posted:Lmao at the thought that Wen is merely Heck's errand boy. The debate is not whether or not Heck is as he seems. The debate concerns Jack's earlier statement: Crappy Jack posted:There's no out and out evidence, but somebody laid out the case: Deng and Mike seem to be pitted up against each other, and Deng talks about receiving information showing Mike to be the traitor; there is a source feeding information to both Deng and Mike that gets them fighting each other as a distraction from the actual shooter. Heck is the person giving you most of your leads in Taipei. Also, if you reveal Scarlet as working for Halbech and have Heck shoot her, he says something along the lines of "Yeah, I knew she was working for Halbech all along, I figured you were just playing dumb so you could hit that". Also Leland is not at all surprised to know about Heck's involvement in events in Taipei, and even seems to know a few things that Mike doesn't seem to get. Also, Thorton is exactly as he seems: a manipulative rear end in a top hat/professional/playboy Merry Magpie fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Mar 31, 2012 |
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Mar 31, 2012 17:42
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Merry Magpie posted:The debate is not whether or not Heck is as he seems. The debate concerns Jack's earlier statement: Yes, but if Heck is not as he seems, then it supports the idea that he worked with Halbech. You're absolutely right that he acts like a madman that Halbech would likely not be interested in associating with. But if the whole madman thing is a schtick, as it well could be, it makes a Halbech connection more plausible. I'm prepared to consider that this theory is just fan masturbation over a cool character - "Heck is so cool, wouldn't he be even cooler if this theory with little evidence in the game to support it is also true?" - but I think that to say that Heck is "an ostentatious madman with no discernible connection to any known intelligence agency" and to take this as settled fact is not in the spirit of the AP setting. quote:Also, Thorton is exactly as he seems: a manipulative rear end in a top hat/professional/playboy Your Thorton never switched up stances? Play most of the game professional, but aggressive with this guy or that guy to make the conversation go a different way? There aren't NPCs who you show an inauthentic side of Mike?
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Mar 31, 2012 18:03
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 00:20 |
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gohuskies posted:Yes, but if Heck is not as he seems, then it supports the idea that he worked with Halbech. You're absolutely right that he acts like a madman that Halbech would likely not be interested in associating with. But if the whole madman thing is a schtick, as it well could be, it makes a Halbech connection more plausible. I'm prepared to consider that this theory is just fan masturbation over a cool character - "Heck is so cool, wouldn't he be even cooler if this theory with little evidence in the game to support it is also true?" - but I think that to say that Heck is "an ostentatious madman with no discernible connection to any known intelligence agency" and to take this as settled fact is not in the spirit of the AP setting. My statement meant to describe in shorthand Thorton's character. At his core, he manipulates others to achieve the response he wishes. Any deeper insight into his character is highly subjective due to the degree of player agency in the title.
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Mar 31, 2012 18:13
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