The No Limit Hold'Em Critique Thread

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Maha: Dec 29, 2006; sapere aude

This is NL2 9-handed, I'm in UTG+2 with A :s:

. UTG+1 limps in front of me, I raise it to 3.5x BB. Button and limper call.

Flop comes A :h:

. Limper checks. I bet .19 into a .24 pot for three reasons: I cbet a lot, I have top pair, and I want to chase out hearts. Button calls, limper folds.

3 :c:

on the turn. I bet a little under pot again - this looks like a brick, so it makes sense for me to keep up aggression, and I've actually made two pair.
Button minraises me. I put him on a big ace or two pair himself, and call with the intention of check-calling the river.

River 8 :s:

. I check, he bets a bit under pot, I call.

Could I have played this better?

He had AQo and took it.

# ? Mar 25, 2012 02:07

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# ? May 24, 2024 13:19

odiv: Jan 12, 2003

Fold pre?

# ? Mar 25, 2012 03:55

Rob Filter: Jan 19, 2009

Maha your thought process is wierd. Just say to yourself when betting "im cbetting for value", or say to yourself "im cbetting as a bluff". When you cbet that flop you aren't getting called by many worse hands (just flush draws), and you aren't folding any better hands (all Ax calls), so cbetting is bad.

As played OTT you bet again. This is good, but not because its a brick, but because worse hands will call (Ax), so you can get value.

The range you put him on OTT for min raising is wrong, fish don't min raise TP OTT after calling flop. His range here is polarized to pretty much only 2pair+, and we beat 0 combo's of 2pair, so easy fold.

# ? Mar 25, 2012 06:07

TheAbortionator: Mar 4, 2005

Rob Filter posted:

The range you put him on OTT for min raising is wrong, fish don't min raise TP OTT after calling flop. His range here is polarized to pretty much only 2pair+, and we beat 0 combo's of 2pair, so easy fold.

I get min raised by fish on the turn by weak top pair hands all the time. Also mid pair/gut shots and all sorts of weird stuff.

But really just fold preflop.

TheAbortionator fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Mar 25, 2012

# ? Mar 25, 2012 17:03

Thom Yorke raps: Nov 2, 2004

Rob Filter posted:

Maha your thought process is wierd. Just say to yourself when betting "im cbetting for value", or say to yourself "im cbetting as a bluff". When you cbet that flop you aren't getting called by many worse hands (just flush draws), and you aren't folding any better hands (all Ax calls), so cbetting is bad.

This is bad logic. The problem with checking back the flop is that it is very hard to have a balanced flop checking back range on this board, as you aren't going to want to check back your legitimately strong hands as you want value and you want to protect against the flush draw. If you check back the flop and villain bets turn, you can either fold (gross) or call and your hand is face up. If you know villain is very aggressive, you can check back and call two comfortably, or if you know he is very passive you can check back and fold to a bet, but absent reads you should not check back because it increases the chance you will make a mistake.

With all that said, don't raise A3s at full ring in EP over a limper without more of a skill edge.

quote:

As played OTT you bet again. This is good, but not because its a brick, but because worse hands will call (Ax), so you can get value.

The range you put him on OTT for min raising is wrong, fish don't min raise TP OTT after calling flop. His range here is polarized to pretty much only 2pair+, and we beat 0 combo's of 2pair, so easy fold.

agreed

Unamuno posted:

Alright here are some hands I played today at Bellagio 5-10 full ring NLHE. Some are more interesting than others, some I feel like I'm sure I played ok and some I feel like I'm sure I botched. Separating the interesting hands from the boring ones is just an extra fun bonus of this massive missive. Feel like if I maybe make an effort to articulate a thought process, a coherent thought process might emerge, maybe foster some discussion or something. The power of language amirite? We'll see how many of these I can do before I fall asleep. Every time I think of a hand I think of hands preceding it that might be worth sharing, so this could end up a big wall of text. Oh, also, before people mention it yes I think I do need to increase my bet sizing in cash games in general. Stack sizes estimated. Sorry I already shared some of these on IRC:

For context, I started out at a newly formed 5-10 must move table. I recognize one very good TAG reg and nobody else.

Hand 1: At this point, I've shown down one hand in an orbit and a half, where I got 3 streets with AQ on some Axxxx board against some stationy dude. I've also 3b twice pre: once getting folds and once getting flatted then b/f a JTx flop.

MP (old nitty white lady)(1500): calls 10;
CO (1600) (middle age white guy who seems like he plays a decent amount but might be kinda loose): calls 10;
Hero (BTN) (1100): raises to 50 with 97, folds around to CO who calls.

Flop (125): AJ3

CO checks, I bet 70 and he calls pretty quickly.

Turn (265): 2

CO checks. I debate giving up vs firing here planning to fire a lot of rivers. I settle on firing because I thought he seemed like the kind of person who would call 1 or 2 barrels with some random Ax and then not call the 3rd, especially if the 4th spade peels off. Or hell, even if it doesn't. Same goes for Jx, of which there are certainly a decent number of combos. f he's loose he has a wide range and he'll let me know if he has dat flush. Anyway, I bet 150 and he calls pretty quickly again.

River (565): 2
CO checks. Even though this is kind of a lovely barrel card, I stick with the plan and bet 330.

Eh I'm not wild about this mainly because even if it is a good barrel spot I don't think we want to be doing it every single time, and our hand on the turn has very little equity so I'd rather just give up and continue when I have at least a gutshot or a pair (even a pocket pair). I think I prefer a river overbet or a check back, I think your sizing is a little small and a curious Ace is going to call you, especially given how active you've been. I also don't like your turn sizing - I guess I would say like $220 on the turn to set up a river jam.

quote:

Hand 2: Takes place couple orbits after hand 1.
MP (old nitty lady from last hand)(1500): calls 10;
HJ (guy from last hand; since then he has shown that he is stupidly loose pre and reluctant to fold flops, getting to SD with 84o when he c/cs bottom pair and turn and river check thru) (2000): calls 10;
Hero (CO): raises to 50 with 86
BB (young asian guy, looks reggy)(1500): calls 40;
MP calls 40;
HJ calls 40;

Flop (205): 855

Checked to me, I bet 110. Seems standard. BB and woman fold, HJ calls pretty quickly.

Turn (425): A
HJ checks. If there's someone I suspect capable of calling me with A-hi on that flop, it's this guy. But still, there's so much stuff he should fold on this turn that betting seems mandatory, and checking tantamount to abandoning the pot. If he calls on the turn I can reconsider things (like whether i think he could be slowplaying one of the many 5s in his range. I bet 230. He calls fairly quickly.

River (865): K

Checks to me. Bombs away?

Depends kinda on whether he called or folded the previous hand, but I think you are owning yourself by betting this turn. If he called and saw your bluff, I think he has a lot of slowplayed 5's, especially given villain description. If he folded, then its more likely he is going to call you down light here.
I don't think you get him to fold an ace ever, and I don't think he has many hands that you can make him fold. So I would just give up on that turn and expect to chop the river an okay % of the time.

quote:

Hand 3: A lil' while later, my image is probably pretty active and aggro, but I've made some folds in biggish pots postflop. Definitely appear loose because I've been isolating the loosey goosies to my right a bunch.

Hero (1300) (MP) raises to 30 with AQ;
CO (2000) (looks like a good TAG reg, youngish scowly guy with headphones, etc; he had earlier flatted a SB 3bet, raised my cbet on a JTx boad and i folded) calls 30;
BB (700) (stationy dude) calls 20.

Flop (95): AJ7

Checks to me, I bet 70. CO calls, BB folds.

Turn (235): K

I debate betting vs. checking here for a good 30 seconds. I convinced myself I might get value from some pair+gutters, the occasional AT, the occasional Kxss (really only KTss or maybe K9ss). I might also get value from something like T9ss, 98ss, or T8ss. Also, he can't really have a set except 77, and that he probably raises on the wet flop. In retrospect, I think c/c could be better here because it seems more likely that a regular will fire at least one of turn/river with non-showdownable hand. Also, sometimes he checks back and leaves us with a somewhat easier river decision (though sometimes he checks back and hits a 3 outer or whatever).

Anyway, I bet 150 and he makes it 450 pretty quickly. I...?

I agree with your retrospective turn thought process, I think a check/call on the turn gets you good value and you really aren't getting value from much on the turn (what gutters does he have? ATs, JTs, KQ, while you lose to KJ/AK/QT and slowplays). As played... barf. I don't like any of your plays and he's making great use of leverage here.

# ? Mar 25, 2012 18:37

Thom Yorke raps: Nov 2, 2004

quote:

Hand 4: People might think I'm steaming, because I am stuck. But my demeanor is obv fine.

Hero (1600) (UTG) I raise to 40 with KK ;
HJ (2400) (Middle-aged dude, looks like he's played before but not a reg and not a pro, prob straightforwardish. Stationy post, seemed limpy pre): 3bets to 80.
BB (2000) (Stupidly-loose guy from previous hands): calls 70

I was considering just flatting the initial 3bettor because, lol live poker middle aged guys who 3bet tiny after being super passive pre for 2 hours have AA a lot here right? But then clownbox mcgee gets in the pot and I feel obligated to try to play a giant pot in position against him so I raise to 270.

HJ asks how many bills I'm playing, thinks for about 20 seconds and makes it 670 to go. I...?

I hate folding KK pre, if you ever do this is the spot because stationy guys just flat JJ-KK/AK here usually. I stick it in when I'm playing poorly or when I've been running over stationy guy a lot and I think he might be interested in playing back at me, but I doubt thats the case here, especially with call station in the BB. Still think you were right to 4bet though.

quote:

Hand 5:
MP (nitty lady)(1500): raises to 40. First time I've seen her raise...ever?
CO (loose clown from before)(2000): calls 40.
Hero (BTN)(1400): calls 40.
BB (tag reg)(3100): calls 40.

Flop (165): 886

Checks to MP who bets 150 pretty quickly. CO folds. I call. BB folds. Not sure calling this near-PSB is good compared to folding (raising seems pretty bad, not sure I can ever get her to fold an overpair here), but I figure I'll get some value out of overpairs if I hit the flush.

Turn (465): J

MP bets 240. I begin to wonder whether I can raise and rep huge here, but then just got the feeling that she'd shrug-call ovepairs almost always here. And factoring in the unlikely event she was firing 2 barrels with TT or AKcc, I decided to peel. Calling and folding have to be pretty close here, but I think she'll c/c an overpair if hit the flush or boat up.

River (945): 2

Woman checks quickly. I...?

Given how active you've been, I like playing this slow or folding on the flop, with an edge towards calling since you might have an over or two + can turn some gutters + position + some implied with your image. Its close though. I don't like a turn raise but you can't fold. On the river you have no fold equity and her check/calling range has a lot of equity against you so just check it back.

quote:

Hand 6:

MP (Nitty Lady)(1400): calls 10;
Loose clowny guy (MP) (1900): calls 10;
Hero (HJ) (1300): Raises to 50 with T8
BB (5bettor from previous hand)(2800): calls 40;
MP limpers call.

Flop (205): KJ6
BB quickly glances at his chips, kinda glances away, seems kinda reminiscent of how he looked when he 5bet, then checks. Checked to me and I check back. I feel like this kinda mashes at least one of their ranges, but if I'm not cbetting this flop with this hand what non-value hands am I really doing it with? Does that kind of balanced range thinking even matter in situations like these where nobody else is really balanced and you're just trying to nakedly exploit those imbalances? Meh, I can def see arguments for betting (it looks strong, can get a lot of folds later on, can build a pot in position, can get there) being robust enough to make betting here better.

Turn (205): 5
So I make the flush. BB quickly bets 100. Folds to me and I make the pretty big mistake of just calling. I think this is just nut-fear, runbad, and trying to read too much into live tells clouding my judgment. But this guy is stationy: he's not going to 3bet turn without Axdd or maybe Q9dd. He's almost certainly peeling one off with the naked Ad and any pair, and probably not finding a way to fold 2p+ or QT (with or without the Qd) on the turn either. So, yeah, pretty obv value raise I missed here.

River (405): 3
BB checks. I bet 250.

Balance doesn't matter on the flop vs these clowns, especially multiway. Also I'd say checking back 8T is a bit balanced there - if people are thinking and seeing your aggression, they don't expect you to check back a flush draw there so checking actually makes your hand more disguised than betting.

Turn I agree, definite raise, given how he glanced at his chips on the flop I am willing to bet he flopped big and will call a large raise - I'd go 425-450ish so I can jam the river.

On the river I think you can bet bigger, like 325.

quote:

Hand 7: I've won some decent pots recently by getting to the river with the goods and getting paid off. It's also becoming more apparent that I'm just isoing the players to my right a ton.

MP (nitty old lady)(2000): calls 10;
CO (grotesquely loose guy from previous hands) (1600): raises to 50;
Hero (BTN)(2600): 3bets to 150 with AA
SB (1700) (very good young tag reg he and I have some history of being aggro): cold 4bets to 360.

Both fold, I decide to flat. I think he's 4betting pretty wide here, because he has certainly picked up on my isolating the loose limpers/raisers. If he has a value hand he's getting it in on most flops, and he might flop a pair or draw with his hand and not fold.

Flop (795): J84

SB leads for 280. I...?

I like your flat I think he is going to be pretty polarized with his 4betting and you don't have the history to induce a light jam. On the flop, I would make it ~625, as I think he can talk himself into jamming AK, any pair, and will jam any draw, and I think when you flat this flop he doesn't continue on too many turns. Also this is a great spot for a small raise like that with your air and not only will he possibly realize this and put it in light, but this is a guy I don't mind balancing against.

Argument for flatting the flop is that it makes you look really weak and he might barrel the turn but I think there are too many cards that make him shut down on the turn, and not many turns where he picks up enough equity to continue but won't jam over our raise.

# ? Mar 25, 2012 18:38

Lote: Aug 5, 2001; Place your bets

I think that "He and I have some history of being aggro" needs a bit of explaining because it would change the dynamic of a call vs. a re-raise. Regarding his play, I think that cold 4 bets OOP are burning money if he doesn't have the absolute top of his range.

Lote fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Mar 25, 2012

# ? Mar 25, 2012 23:46

Mind_Taker: May 7, 2007

Live $2/$5 NL 9 players. I just sat down and there are a few regs at the table including the villain. He's decent, not overly aggressive or overly passive. He's probably a break-even to slightly winning player. I've never seen him donk-bet in a heads up preflop raised pot. I almost always c-bet, especially on lowish or paired boards, but I'm not 100% sure villain picks up on this.

Villain is in the SB with ~$800.

I'm UTG+2 with about ~$500.

I'm dealt 99, folds to me and I raise to $20. Villain is the only caller.

Flop is T64 rainbow. He leads out for $30. I have no idea why he is leading here, I've never seen him do it. I decide to call because there are a lot of hands I still beat, including a bunch of straight draws. I don't think raising here is good.

Turn comes another 4. Pot is about $100 right now and he makes it $65. I call again. Nothing's really changed from the flop. I don't think there are very many 4s in his range. Perhaps he has a 10 but would a semi-decent possibly observant player play it that way?

River comes a J. He bets $150 into $230. I don't think the jack helps him (unless he has JT, but in that case he was already ahead). It doesn't complete any straights and if I was ahead before, I'm ahead now. I decide to call.

Does this line look okay? Should I have raised flop?

Mind_Taker fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Mar 30, 2012

# ? Mar 30, 2012 16:04

MY INEVITABLE DEBT: Apr 21, 2011; I am lonely and spend most of my time on 4Chan talking about the superiority of BBC porn.

Mind_Taker posted:

Does this line look okay? Should I have raised flop?

I think this is all fine. His line is really FOS and raising flop is like pressing the STOP SHOVELING MONEY AT ME button. On river it's pretty ridiculously unlikely for him to have a J or be betting that much with a T so we stick with the read and call.

Whatever he had is worth noting.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 16:18

Thom Yorke raps: Nov 2, 2004

Mind_Taker posted:

Live $2/$5 NL 9 players. I just sat down and there are a few regs at the table including the villain. He's decent, not overly aggressive or overly passive. He's probably a break-even to slightly winning player. I've never seen him donk-bet in a heads up preflop raised pot. I almost always c-bet, especially on lowish or paired boards, but I'm not 100% sure villain picks up on this.

Villain is in the SB with ~$800.

I'm UTG+2 with about ~$500.

I'm dealt 99, folds to me and I raise to $20. Villain is the only caller.

Flop is T64 rainbow. He leads out for $30. I have no idea why he is leading here, I've never seen him do it. I decide to call because there are a lot of hands I still beat, including a bunch of straight draws. I don't think raising here is good.

Turn comes another 4. Pot is about $100 right now and he makes it $65. I call again. Nothing's really changed from the flop. I don't think there are very many 4s in his range. Perhaps he has a 10 but would a semi-decent possibly observant player play it that way?

River comes a J. He bets $150 into $230. I don't think the jack helps him (unless he has JT, but in that case he was already ahead). It doesn't complete any straights and if I was ahead before, I'm ahead now. I decide to call.

Does this line look okay? Should I have raised flop?

Maybe I'm giving him too much credit but a not super aggro person donking 3 streets when the board texture doesn't change makes me think that your 9's are no good. That turn is like the worst barrel card ever and he keeps coming, I dunno I just fold the turn.

# ? Mar 30, 2012 23:28

Dr. Eat: Jan 4, 2005; Brain Specialist

Ranma posted:

Maybe I'm giving him too much credit but a not super aggro person donking 3 streets when the board texture doesn't change makes me think that your 9's are no good. That turn is like the worst barrel card ever and he keeps coming, I dunno I just fold the turn.

Yea I agree with this 100%. I don't think anyone goes crazy here with ace-high/6x/worse pocket pairs.

BTW I like donkbetting with sets/2pair if I'm worried villain will check back flop or fold to a c-raise (and 9s is a instamuck to a c-raise here). If he actually did have a set or two-pair I really like villain's line as a way of getting 3 streets of value on dry board.

Agree with OP that raising flop is bad but we still have to call and plan on folding a lot of turns if villain is going bet bet bet. I mean, by raising we just fold out everything we beat and let everything that has us crushed continue. Also there aren't many straightdraws in his range (really just 75 cause I don't think anyone does this with a gutter + 98 is unlikely combinatorically).

edit: results please? i do think it would be really weird for him to have Tx/Jx if he's competent but he can still have plenty of value hands that beat us.

Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Mar 31, 2012

# ? Mar 30, 2012 23:53

AmnesiaLab: Nov 9, 2004; Stark raving sane.

Yeah, I fold the turn. Most of the time I see someone who is decent donkbet like this and keep coming, 99 isn't gonna cut it. It's a strange line, but one that might get confusion calls. At the very least, I'm willing to just toss it and wait for another spot. I don't think a lot of decent players are going to suddenly three-barrel donkbet into you with much that 99 can beat. If you have a read otherwise, go for it, but by default, if the villain isn't a total mouthbreather, I think we're in trouble here.

I've got one for you guys.

Live 1/2. Table in general is playing loose and aggressive. Every pot is raised, usually to 12 or 17, but to anywhere as high as 60 preflop (not even as a 3-bet). I have been cold-decked since I sat down and have barely played. I 3-bet all-in preflop with QQ earlier, and on the hand right before this one, I raised a $5 straddle to 20 with AA from the BB, was called five times, flopped a set, and check-raised all-in after a stab from MP folded around to me. (I rivered the case ace, but I didn't need it.) Other than that, I've sat here for an hour and a half not getting involved because all of my other hands have been poo poo. I'm still stacking chips from the quad aces hand when the action comes to me. Action is as follows:

UTG folds
EP folds
MP1 (average reg, bitching about being card dead all night) raises to 7
MP2 (loose, somewhat aggressive, generally retarded reg) calls 7
MP3 (apparently decent reg; has shown down a good bluff in a multiway pot that he credited with his tight table image at the time) calls 7
HJ (huge nitty human being on a sick rush, who has gone from 150 to 1100 since I sat down, mostly with AA, KK, QQ, AA, and a turned nut flush with Ah6h versus TPTK [This dude is notable for being a huge loving tellbox with actual TICS with distinct meanings when cards hit; I could call this dude's hands all night long as a parlor trick just by watching him. I swear, it looks like Tourette's. I can't believe no one seems to notice his tics or what they mean, and they still give him action.])
CO (dangerous reg) calls 7
BN (tight, but mostly unknown; can adjust to specific players, as he called MP2 light when he was being characteristically retarded in a big hand) calls 7

Quick recap: 38 in the pot already including blinds. I'm in the SB with a stack size of 236. Almost the entire table has me covered, with the exception of MP2, who is sitting with about 140. I look down at KK. Obviously, we're 3-betting. My question is how big?

I figure there are a couple of options. With 236 in our stack, we can either 1) blast it hard preflop, which may fold everyone, but is likely to get a caller considering the table, and set ourselves up to shove the flop, or we can 2) raise a bit smaller and set ourselves up for a c-bet on the flop and a shove on the turn.

In scenario 1, I figure we raise to 60. That puts about 160 in the pot if we get a single caller, and leaves us with 176 behind to shove on the flop. This is good to take poo poo down without letting anyone draw, but we've got less upside as people are going to fold much more often to this line. Also, we have far less room to maneuver on a bad flop.

In scenario 2, we raise to 31 (SB is in, after all, so putting the extra chip in simplifies the math), which is light for a 3-bet with so many callers. We're likely to pick up at least two, but we've got room to evaluate if an ugly flop hits, and we'll have 205 behind to work with. If we get one caller, the pot is 90 or so. 50 on the flop sets up a shove of 155 into a pot of 190 on the turn if we got called. With two callers, we can still c-bet 50 into 120, and shove 155 into a pot of 270 if called in both places on the turn. This gives us the best chance of making extra money on the hand and gives us the best chance to get away from a bad board, but it also makes us more vulnerable to suckouts. Also, if we get three or more callers, the plan is hosed, and we're left with an awkward stack size. (With three callers, the pot is about 150 and we have 205. Jamming the flop is likely to only get called when someone outflopped us, and betting smaller on the flop and/or turn leads to bet sizes that don't accomplish much.

Again, bear in mind: I have only shown down QQ (after a 3-bet) and AA (technically after a 3-bet, since I raised a straddle with it) at this table, so people probably think I'm a nut-peddler. That lessens the likelihood of getting a call if I try scenario 1, and makes just getting a call or two for scenario 2 more likely.

So, what do you think? Fire away with the raise to 60, leaving ourselves with such a low SPR that we don't have much room to maneuver, but we're set up to punish draws, or raise smaller, retain some moves for postflop, and be set to milk the hand for all it's worth in return for a greater chance of getting bitten in the rear end?

AmnesiaLab fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Mar 31, 2012

# ? Mar 31, 2012 14:25

Thom Yorke raps: Nov 2, 2004

I make it 70 and 1/3 pot any none A high flop unless its super drawy in which case I"ll bet more.

# ? Mar 31, 2012 16:30

Mr.Showtime: Oct 22, 2006; I'm not going to say that

I agree, cause raising to 31 is terrible and I can't imagine how scenario two plays out anyway but you getting 5 callers.

# ? Mar 31, 2012 16:42

Mind_Taker: May 7, 2007

Dr. Eat posted:

edit: results please? i do think it would be really weird for him to have Tx/Jx if he's competent but he can still have plenty of value hands that beat us.

He had AT. Very interesting way to play the hand and he got full value. Thanks for the discussion!

# ? Mar 31, 2012 20:20

AmnesiaLab: Nov 9, 2004; Stark raving sane.

Mr.Showtime posted:

I agree, cause raising to 31 is terrible and I can't imagine how scenario two plays out anyway but you getting 5 callers.

HJ and BN go away to pretty much any 3-bet, even if it calls around to them, and MP2 definitely calls 31 and will probably call 60. I figure worst case scenario for 31 is MP1 calls and triggers a cascade, because MP2 is definitely coming. If that happens, MP3 probably calls and CO definitely calls. MP1 has been making a lot of noise, but he's also done the whole "it loving figures"/ragefold bit when he gets 3-bet pre. Still, he's been card-dead long enough that he could easily say gently caress it and roll with anything in his raising range just to be stubborn. I figure 60 almost definitely folds him, and 31 usually does. The balancing factor, though, is that I'm pretty sure MP1 repops it to isolate with anything he's actually going to play, which reopens the betting for me. If he repops it, MP2 will probably still come along, but no one else will. If he repops either raise and MP2 calls, I jam when the action comes back to me and expect both will call 95% of the time.

# ? Mar 31, 2012 22:05

Dr. Eat: Jan 4, 2005; Brain Specialist

'math is idiotic'...we really gotta just 3bet for value and get as much money in the pot as we can pre. people can just think you're on a rush too from the quads hand and making a play.

# ? Apr 2, 2012 05:36

Mind_Taker: May 7, 2007

What do I do on the turn and river here with bet-sizing? He is an Asian guy who isn't usually very aggressive but he is somewhat loose postflop.

Live 2/5.

I have around $1500. Villain in SB has around $1400. BB has like $1k.

Folds to me in the HJ. I have K9o and make it $20. Folds to Villain who calls, BB also calls.

Flop (Pot: $53 with rake and jackpot drop taken out): 942r

Villain bets $35. BB folds.

At this point, I put him on a 9 or two-pair. I don't think he'd donk with anything worse, and he doesn't seem like the type to bet a straight draw.

I decide to raise to $90 because I think he'll call with just a 9, and there are tons of smaller 9s in his range that I can get value from.

He calls $55.

Turn (Pot: $243): 9

He leads again for $175. I am guessing he has a 9 at this point, and I am guessing he is putting me on a stubborn overpair that will call his bet, but will check if checked to. I raise to $400. Is this a bad raise? He calls, making me further believe he has a 9.

River (Pot: $1043): A

He has around $890 left. He checks. Do I just shove here?

Mind_Taker fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Apr 2, 2012

# ? Apr 2, 2012 16:11

MY INEVITABLE DEBT: Apr 21, 2011; I am lonely and spend most of my time on 4Chan talking about the superiority of BBC porn.

Mind_Taker posted:

He has around $890 left. He checks. Do I just shove here?

code:

Board: 9c 4d 2s 9h Ac
Dead:  

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	77.778%  	77.78% 	00.00% 	            42 	        0.00   { 44, 22, A9s, T9s, 98s }
Hand 1: 	22.222%  	22.22% 	00.00% 	            12 	        0.00   { K9o }

Sure if you want to.

if he has T9o we're still 41.7%. If he has A9o too we're 35.7%. If he calls as loosely as 98o pre and plays this way we're still only 47%.

Bottom line is, best case scenario we are torching money. And if he ever folds any 9 ever? We're using a wheel barrow to dump money into a furnace.

MY INEVITABLE DEBT fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Apr 2, 2012

# ? Apr 2, 2012 17:12

Dr. Eat: Jan 4, 2005; Brain Specialist

Shipping river is like crazy bad. He has to know you at least have a 9 after you raise him twice. Given how the hand played out any value you get on river will be really thin...I like just betting really small to get value from only from T9 and 98 (like 2-250) and folding if he ships despite the absurd pot-odds. If he shoves you are never good. Again this is just super marginal and I think you should check back. I mean yeah we have top-trips but it's not worth ~600bb unless we are playing the biggest mouth-breather ever.

I would also just call the flop also cause there really aren't any draws to charge and we're in position. When we raise flop everything worse (should) folds and everything better calls. He can also be leading with overpairs which won't fold and we'll have to fire multiple barrels against w/ very little equity.

Think the turn raise is fine.

# ? Apr 6, 2012 00:25

HomerCSM: Aug 24, 2004; Benjamins for Breakfast

Just getting back into poker so I'm trying to find the obvious leaks I'll have from not grinding since like 07.

$0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players

Villian: $151.25
SB: $50.91
BB: $14.27
Hero (UTG): $67.27
CO: $53.25

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero has A :s:

Hero raises to $1.50, fold, Villian raises to $5.25, fold, fold, Hero raises to $15.00, Villian calls $9.75

Flop: ($30.75, 2 players) 6 :c:

Hero bets $22.00, Villian calls $22.00

Turn: ($74.75, 2 players) 2 :h:

Hero bets $30.27 and is all-in

Villian has been opening a lot to 3x pretty aggro. Not too sure about my flop sizing, but afterwards I thought a turn push was the best play. Is the turn push spewy?

This is pretty early in the session so I haven't done too much.

# ? Apr 6, 2012 06:19

Lote: Aug 5, 2001; Place your bets

Why the large bet on the flop? A $15 bet would be half pot and set you up for a $37 bet into a $60 pot vs a $22 into $75. Do you think that flop helped him? I think you're getting called down after that flop bet.

# ? Apr 6, 2012 08:44

Mind_Taker: May 7, 2007

Dr. Eat posted:

Shipping river is like crazy bad. He has to know you at least have a 9 after you raise him twice. Given how the hand played out any value you get on river will be really thin...I like just betting really small to get value from only from T9 and 98 (like 2-250) and folding if he ships despite the absurd pot-odds. If he shoves you are never good. Again this is just super marginal and I think you should check back. I mean yeah we have top-trips but it's not worth ~600bb unless we are playing the biggest mouth-breather ever.

I would also just call the flop also cause there really aren't any draws to charge and we're in position. When we raise flop everything worse (should) folds and everything better calls. He can also be leading with overpairs which won't fold and we'll have to fire multiple barrels against w/ very little equity.

Think the turn raise is fine.

I did end up betting tiny for that exact reason, only like $120 into a ~$1k pot which felt weird. He called with T9 and I felt like with my read I may have lost some value by not betting bigger on the river.

I don't think sets would donk that flop even in a 3-way pot as I had been c-betting a lot, and almost always c-betting a dry flop like 942r. Him betting top pair, however, makes sense for this villain because his hand would be vulnerable in the off chance it checked through and a high card came on the turn. I don't really think he has anything that beats me except for exactly A9, and I think he is calling PF with 79s-A9s, so there are tons of 9s I beat. This is the reason I raised the flop, maybe not the best raise but I went with my read of him being a loose player who would call a raise with just top pair.

# ? Apr 6, 2012 15:02

HomerCSM: Aug 24, 2004; Benjamins for Breakfast

Lote posted:

Why the large bet on the flop? A $15 bet would be half pot and set you up for a $37 bet into a $60 pot vs a $22 into $75. Do you think that flop helped him? I think you're getting called down after that flop bet.

Was pretty sure the bet sizing on the flop was pretty horrible. I think I lucked out and he somehow had the bottom of his range 88, QJ mayyybe? becuase he ended up folding.

I flagged the hand for review and had a feeling I just got lucky and played that poorly.

# ? Apr 6, 2012 21:40

TheAbortionator: Mar 4, 2005

This was pretty weird. We are raising/calling it off every time correct?

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BTN): $25.00
SB: $3.18
BB: $38.73
UTG: $55.74
MP: $66.97
CO: $29.36

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has 3:club: A:club:

fold, MP raises to $0.50, fold, Hero raises to $1.50, fold, fold, MP calls $1.00

Flop: ($3.35, 2 players) 6:club: 7:club: 6:diamond:
MP bets $4.75Hero ?????

TheAbortionator fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Apr 6, 2012

# ? Apr 6, 2012 22:17

ZeroStar: Dec 18, 2006; :[

HomerCSM posted:

$0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players

Villian: $151.25
SB: $50.91
BB: $14.27
Hero (UTG): $67.27
CO: $53.25

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero has A K

Hero raises to $1.50, fold, Villian raises to $5.25, fold, fold, Hero raises to $15.00, Villian calls $9.75

Flop: ($30.75, 2 players) 6 9 T
Hero bets $22.00, Villian calls $22.00

Turn: ($74.75, 2 players) 2
Hero bets $30.27 and is all-in

Your 4bet size is really big, normally we want to go pretty small like $12-$13. The reasoning is that you want your size to be the same for when you are getting it in and when you are bluffing. The smaller size is better when we bluff, and generally doesn't make much of a difference when we are going for value.

On the flop I might give up. If I were to bet I think a decent plan is to bet the flop like $16 and jam some turns as a bluff. I would rather bet smaller than your size if we plan to follow up on the 2h turn because it might induce some light calls that we can get to fold on the turn.

TheAbortionator posted:

This was pretty weird. We are raising/calling it off every time correct?

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BTN): $25.00
SB: $3.18
BB: $38.73
UTG: $55.74
MP: $66.97
CO: $29.36

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has 3:club: A:club:

fold, MP raises to $0.50, fold, Hero raises to $1.50, fold, fold, MP calls $1.00

Flop: ($3.35, 2 players) 6:club: 7:club: 6:diamond:
MP bets $4.75Hero ?????

It can only be a miniscule mistake to get it in here, he might fold or have a worse flush draw and get it in sometimes though so it should be fine to gamble here.

# ? Apr 6, 2012 23:15

Dr. Eat: Jan 4, 2005; Brain Specialist

Mind_Taker posted:

I did end up betting tiny for that exact reason, only like $120 into a ~$1k pot which felt weird. He called with T9 and I felt like with my read I may have lost some value by not betting bigger on the river.

I don't think sets would donk that flop even in a 3-way pot as I had been c-betting a lot, and almost always c-betting a dry flop like 942r. Him betting top pair, however, makes sense for this villain because his hand would be vulnerable in the off chance it checked through and a high card came on the turn. I don't really think he has anything that beats me except for exactly A9, and I think he is calling PF with 79s-A9s, so there are tons of 9s I beat. This is the reason I raised the flop, maybe not the best raise but I went with my read of him being a loose player who would call a raise with just top pair.

The fact that he's pretty loose preflop doesn't change much...kinda standard for live players. Also if you had been cbetting a lot he shouldn't be afraid of the hand being checked through as you should be betting overcards here to fold out pocket pairs. Also what was your plan if he 3bet you on the flop? I don't think a raise on the flop is a huge mistake or anything, it will just put you in tons of awkward spots in a bloated pot if like, your hand doesn't improve and he keeps betting at you and most of the time you won't improve to trips or twopair. I mean he can totally have pocket tens and just decide he doesn't like his hand and wants to protect it. Plus you put him on 2pair which boats on the turn (doubt he bets bottom two again)...

I think your river bet was too small but again it's not like you lost huge amounts of value or anything. 300 is the biggest I'd go if you think he's really loose, 200 the smallest. I am a big fan of small bets on the river either for value or as blocking bets when we're OOP.

Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Apr 7, 2012

# ? Apr 7, 2012 17:23

Mind_Taker: May 7, 2007

Dr. Eat posted:

The fact that he's pretty loose preflop doesn't change much...kinda standard for live players. Also if you had been cbetting a lot he shouldn't be afraid of the hand being checked through as you should be betting overcards here to fold out pocket pairs. Also what was your plan if he 3bet you on the flop? I don't think a raise on the flop is a huge mistake or anything, it will just put you in tons of awkward spots in a bloated pot if like, your hand doesn't improve and he keeps betting at you and most of the time you won't improve to trips or twopair. I mean he can totally have pocket tens and just decide he doesn't like his hand and wants to protect it. Plus you put him on 2pair which boats on the turn (doubt he bets bottom two again)...

I think your river bet was too small but again it's not like you lost huge amounts of value or anything. 300 is the biggest I'd go if you think he's really loose, 200 the smallest. I am a big fan of small bets on the river either for value or as blocking bets when we're OOP.

If he 3-bet me on the flop I'd probably instamuck. For this opponent in a multiway pot, I think he will lead out with any 2-pair or any 9, and maybe a set but not as likely. I also felt he would call a flop raise with a 9 (and might have 3-bet me with two-pair+, which is why I'd fold).

If he just called my flop raise and I didn't improve on the turn I'd probably check or fold depending on his action (he'd probably have checked if another 9 didn't hit). But since I did improve I felt I was in good shape and yeah he could have had 92 or 94 or 22 or 44, but if he's calling with 92s, then he's calling with 93s, 95s, 96s, 97s, etc, most of which I beat (and all of which he'd call a turn raise to because "I'VE GOT TRIPS").

I asked if I should have shoved river because I thought it to be a risky play at the time, but in retrospect I think he would have called with his actual hand. i.e. I guess I was being a little results oriented.

# ? Apr 7, 2012 22:03

Dr. Eat: Jan 4, 2005; Brain Specialist

Yeah I like your thought process...I also don't think you should discount overpairs cause most live players don't 3bet TT-JJ pre. And really every turn card leaves us lost after we raise flop like, what do on an 8/Q/etc...checking behind is good but when we do that every competent villain will bet the river and if we don't improve by then we're kinda just hero-calling.

It's like we raise for value on the flop but it's really hard realize that value it on later streets considering how deep we are and the fact that the villain seems to be quite aggro and loose. So that's why I think calling flop is best.

Turn raise is defo fine with your read.

quote:

I asked if I should have shoved river because I thought it to be a risky play at the time, but in retrospect I think he would have called with his actual hand. i.e. I guess I was being a little results oriented.

Kinda having trouble following this but I assume you meant you thought you should've shoved for value cause he would've called? Agree that's really results oriented.

But when I read your post I just assumed you wanted to shove cause "GOT TRIPS AND A POTSIZED BET!" which will usually mean lighting 200big blinds on fire. Everything else you've posted about the hand has been solid though.

edit: let this guy take himself to valuetown which he seems happy to do; don't put yourself in a spot where you're likely to be valueowned 75% of the time or whatever pokerstove said you would be.

Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Apr 8, 2012

# ? Apr 8, 2012 00:07

AmnesiaLab: Nov 9, 2004; Stark raving sane.

Here's one from a 1/2 NL game tonight. A line check would be appreciated.

Villain is an old dude with too much money who likes to put it in the pot. He'll will bet the flop and barrel the turn with pretty much any two. I have never seen him three-barrel bluff, but he'll bet the river with second pair. He's been firing multiple shells at everything. A few hands ago, I called flop and turn bets with Q3s on a board of AQ952, and he turned up 94o. (I even considered betting the river. Seriously, dude is bad.) He's also called my all-in with an underpair before on a paired board, but the raise shove equated to only about a minraise. He doesn't call a lot of early raises, but he feels like he's practically obligated if he's already invested some money in the pot.

Effective stacks: 236

Villain raises from MP to 13. I call in the hijack with A :s:

. Villain's PFR range is huge. Folds around to the BB, a generally loose and passive player, who calls.

Flop (3-handed, 34 after rake):
A :d:

BB checks. Villain leads for 20. I don't mind giving the BB a freebie on a dry board when I've got top two, and Villain is going to keep betting if I let him. Villain is also prone to overbetting the turn, so I flat, hoping he'll overbet to an amount I can jam over. I call, BB folds.

Turn (heads up, 72 after rake):
9 :c:

Villain bets 50. I really don't like the 9 because Villain could easily be here with a ten, or even the straight. With 153 to call a pot of 328, I'm charging the poo poo out of his draws, although I expect he'll call anyway. I jam for 203 total.

My big question is the flop play. This is a guy who loves to take lots of rope to hang himself with. If this board had a flush draw, I'd have raised to punish draws (especially three-handed), but this board is dry enough that I don't mind a free card peeling. If Villain were a tight raiser, I might raise him on the flop expecting him to be unable to fold an ace, but I doubt he's anywhere near that strong and just want to let him run with it.

Anyone have an argument otherwise? Raising this flop into this guy just strikes me as lighting money on fire.

# ? Apr 11, 2012 11:33

AARO: Mar 9, 2005; by Lowtax

Yeah don't raise the flop if you think he'll fold a lot.

Even though it would look stupidly strong/fishy, you could just MR turn and jam all rivers including a ten. Although I think I like your line slightly better cause you get him to put it in with more tens specifically hands like KT or T9. Most of his tens have a pair, which I guess he can't fold on the river, so it probably makes little difference.

AARO fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Apr 11, 2012

# ? Apr 11, 2012 19:57

Thom Yorke raps: Nov 2, 2004

AmnesiaLab posted:

Here's one from a 1/2 NL game tonight. A line check would be appreciated.

Villain is an old dude with too much money who likes to put it in the pot. He'll will bet the flop and barrel the turn with pretty much any two. I have never seen him three-barrel bluff, but he'll bet the river with second pair. He's been firing multiple shells at everything. A few hands ago, I called flop and turn bets with Q3s on a board of AQ952, and he turned up 94o. (I even considered betting the river. Seriously, dude is bad.) He's also called my all-in with an underpair before on a paired board, but the raise shove equated to only about a minraise. He doesn't call a lot of early raises, but he feels like he's practically obligated if he's already invested some money in the pot.

Effective stacks: 236

Villain raises from MP to 13. I call in the hijack with AJ. Villain's PFR range is huge. Folds around to the BB, a generally loose and passive player, who calls.

Flop (3-handed, 34 after rake):
A J 8

BB checks. Villain leads for 20. I don't mind giving the BB a freebie on a dry board when I've got top two, and Villain is going to keep betting if I let him. Villain is also prone to overbetting the turn, so I flat, hoping he'll overbet to an amount I can jam over. I call, BB folds.

Turn (heads up, 72 after rake):
9

Villain bets 50. I really don't like the 9 because Villain could easily be here with a ten, or even the straight. With 153 to call a pot of 328, I'm charging the poo poo out of his draws, although I expect he'll call anyway. I jam for 203 total.

My big question is the flop play. This is a guy who loves to take lots of rope to hang himself with. If this board had a flush draw, I'd have raised to punish draws (especially three-handed), but this board is dry enough that I don't mind a free card peeling. If Villain were a tight raiser, I might raise him on the flop expecting him to be unable to fold an ace, but I doubt he's anywhere near that strong and just want to let him run with it.

Anyone have an argument otherwise? Raising this flop into this guy just strikes me as lighting money on fire.

This doesn't seem the type of guy to fold preflop, so I would 3bet small to isolate. As played, seems fine.

# ? Apr 11, 2012 23:36

MY INEVITABLE DEBT: Apr 21, 2011; I am lonely and spend most of my time on 4Chan talking about the superiority of BBC porn.

Ranma posted:

This doesn't seem the type of guy to fold preflop, so I would 3bet small to isolate. As played, seems fine.

This is it. I think I like minraise flop or something he cant fold to though just because I don't think he will fold anything if we make it certain numbers and we get the rest of the money in later.

# ? Apr 12, 2012 02:51

AmnesiaLab: Nov 9, 2004; Stark raving sane.

Very true; he's basically never folding pre, so I can 3-bet to isolate easily enough. The reason I just flat is because once I 3-bet, I take the initiative, and he probably check-folds. I've seen him get 3-bet (to 25 over a raise to 10) twice, and both times he called pre and then check-folded.

As olin said, I generally don't like minraising the turn and jamming the river because it offers obvious implied odds that any draw can call easily. If I minraise, I commit (creating a pot of 272 with about 100 left behind), basically saying I have to call the river no matter what comes, so draws can call the lesser amount and shove if they hit, or check if they miss. Considering the villain, that isn't exactly a concern, though, because implied odds aren't even close to his level of thinking.

Anyway, just making sure I wasn't totally retarded. As played, he happened to have 99 for the turned set, and he gleefully called my shove on the turn. gg, y'all (as we say in the south)! It's likely he'd call a raise on the flop, considering the villain, so I'm pretty sure I'm just hosed here. I'm generally comfortable with the way I played it, but 3-betting is definitely an option since I can probably 3-bet the villain in question with a fairly wide range and get him to fold on the flop. Wooha.

As a special treat, I will now post a hand from the same session that shows just how loving terribly I suck at poker! (As if you needed the extra proof.)

# ? Apr 12, 2012 10:34

AmnesiaLab: Nov 9, 2004; Stark raving sane.

Behold, the awful loving hand of the night!

New guy to the table. No solid reads. He's a young guy I've played with briefly before, and I know he's not awesome. Preflop raising range is mostly big cards. He just busted on the last hand before tables combined, and he bought in with a fresh 100. I just bought back in for the last 100 I had on me, and I have a whopping 105.

Effective stacks: 100.

Villain raises to 12 in EP. I call with J :s:

in MP. Folds around to dangerous, tricky reg in the BB who calls.

Flop (3-handed, 32 after rake):

J :d:

BB checks. Villain checks. I bet 18. BB folds. Villain calls.

Turn (heads up, 66 after rake):

J :d:

Villain checks. I figure him for the diamond draw, maybe an underpair, but I don't think he's got top pair practically ever after checking that flop. A slowplayed set is possible (especially the way I'm running). I figure I can either jam to protect against the draws (offering him just under 2:1), or I can be loving retarded and make it 30 or so to set up a crying call at the river from the weaker hands in his range, as my river shove will be 40 into 126 if he calls. (I actually didn't realize I had him covered, so I was thinking 45 instead of 40.) I opt to make it 30 and decide to shut down if a diamond comes unless I get a good read that he's bluffing. (It's a testament to how off my game I am at this point that the implied odds I was offering with such a bet never even crosses my mind.) He calls.

River (heads up, 126 after rake):

J :d:

Villain shoves for 40 into 126. I tank and try to think about what he makes this move with. My initial read is that he was on a diamond draw. If that were the case, he could certainly bluff the backdoor flush coming in. People are terrified of flushes at the track, even if they're not very likely. The only hands with hearts I could see him continue past the flop with were broadways with the jack, but I couldn't see him failing to c-bet the flop with top pair. I hadn't played with the guy much, but I'd played with him enough to be confident of that. That means he either check-called a monster-- JJ, 66, or 33 (the latter two, I don't really think he'd raise, and the former I have blockers to), possibly 5d4d if I'm wrong about his PFR range, but I doubt 3x6x is in there not just because of PFR, but because he'd pretty much have to raise the flop with bottom two, and if he decided to get cute and c/c an overpair on the flop, he'd pretty much have to lead or c/r the turn to protect against all the draws (obv. that would be pretty bad play with an overpair, but I don't know how bad this guy is)-- or check-called with a draw. Something like AdQd seems about right to me, giving him the nut flush draw and two overs. I'm not sure whether he'd jam the nut diamond draw plus a gutshot into me on the turn, but I have a feeling he doesn't play it that aggressively, partially because I don't see it much at the track. Going over the hands I can figure for his range, there are just more of them that shove this river on a bluff hoping the hearts will scare off callers than those that shove it for value. I beat any shove with two pair or less. Does he shove a set with the hearts out? This is the live 1/2, where people are terrified of even backdoor flushes. The way he played it screams either busted draw or flush, and I don't see enough flushes in his range.

Villain starts jawing at me, asking me if I have AJ. He says I should fold my AJ because he's got me beat. I've got no experience with this particular villain when it comes to table talk, but I've heard those kinds of things from people who want a fold often enough. For some people, though, it's when they want a call, so I don't put much weight in that. Again, though, I just see too many busted draws in his range and not enough real hands, so I call.

Villain tables K :h:

for the flush. He floated me out of position on the flop with backdoor draws and overs, which would have been good info if the money on the table hadn't been the last I'd brought with me. I'll file it away for later.

I chose the less aggressive move with two pair and got bitten in the rear end-- for the third time in one night. As it turns out, had I shoved the turn, he'd have called and hit, anyway, but with such an awkward stack size, and considering I was stuck significantly, I got greedy here. This is an abjectly awful move, because I'm transparently giving any draw 4.5:1 to call, because I'm likely to be too short to fold on the river. And what for? Is an underpair really calling three streets all-in, no matter how tempting I make the betting? If he has a weird two-pair, he calls the shove and I'm ahead. If he's drawing, he may call without the right odds, which is a theoretical win. (Ship those Sklansky dollars!) If he has a set, I'm hosed either way (unless a diamond comes and I can get away, although he may check and I can check behind). Also, if a diamond had come, he may have bluffed me off the hand as I was prepared to freeze if the diamond draw hit. I bought myself a ticket to ride the Rapetrain to Frowntown if a flush hit. I call the backdoor flush draw when he actually has it, and I fold to the diamond flush card even though he doesn't. This is just lovely play brought on by a night of ugly hands. I should have gotten up and walked before I got that deep in, because I really wasn't feeling it, but I had Elmer to my direct right, and he was such a cash cow (he was down $1600) that I couldn't bring myself to walk away. Le sigh.

So yeah. Please berate me for this one. This post is a cautionary tale. I don't really mind my flatcall on the flop in the first hand I mentioned because there weren't many draws out, and I couldn't really give them a bad price on the flop. On this turn, though, I'm offering 4.5:1 implied odds to call the turn on a board with a possible straight draw and TWO flush draws. That is terrible, terrible loving poker. I applied absolutely no pressure, and let him coast in to crush me. Don't play like this, kids! I deserved to lose this hand for playing like dogshit.

AmnesiaLab fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Apr 12, 2012

# ? Apr 12, 2012 10:47

bbc what it dew: Aug 3, 2007; SAMMY TRANKS

jam turn

# ? Apr 12, 2012 13:59

MY INEVITABLE DEBT: Apr 21, 2011; I am lonely and spend most of my time on 4Chan talking about the superiority of BBC porn.

Since he already berated you for the hand can I berate you for the writing style?

Sum it up dude. Facts, ranges.

and lmao u are mad

# ? Apr 12, 2012 14:02

Mind_Taker: May 7, 2007

I want to know if I played this hand poorly, and if there is any way I could have not lost all of my money. Results are posted because IT'S A COOLER but since we were both so deep I was wondering if I was obligated to lose all of my money instead of just a large portion of my money after I called PF.

Live $2/$5. Villain is a standard ABC player. Never seen him get out of line, and usually his raises post-flop and 3-bets preflop mean strength, although he has seen me raise preflop with some medium suited connectors and weak suited aces.

I have ~$1400, villain has me covered.

2 limpers to me (one of the limpers is a maniac) in MP. I pick up 99 and raise to $35 trying to isolate the maniac. Villain on the button 3-bets to $105. If either of us were shallower I'd probably just fold here because I think he has a standard 3-bet range of TT+, AK, and maybe AQs. But since we are both 280+ BB deep I decide to set mine and call. Everyone else folds.

Flop ($220): A98r.

I check. Villain checks. I don't think AK or AQ checks this flop too much (maybe he does for pot control), but I think every other hand in his range can check this flop. Also on the off chance that he 3-bet me light, I think he's betting this flop.

Turn ($220): 4, no flush draws

I bet $125, he raises me to $325. This raise is really weird to me. It's possible he could have 44 or 88 and 3-bet with that, but I don't think he'd do it too often. Should I just call here? I actually decided to raise to $625, and he calls.

River ($1470): A

I thought about checking because his hand plays exactly like AA would even if there is only one combo out there. But in the end I decided to shove my remaining ~$670 because I really thought he'd check back AK in the off chance he had it and I'm never folding to his shove, even if I thought he had AA which I really was afraid of at this point, so I might as well get value from AK/AQ.

He of course has AA.

# ? Apr 12, 2012 20:45

Lote: Aug 5, 2001; Place your bets

I hear Knish has a truck you can drive.

I know the hand was A9 v AA

This guy calls down the river with AK so shoving is fine. The question should be if he plays the turn with AK as played. Given your betting with suited connectors he may also be three betting light with 88 in his range.

# ? Apr 12, 2012 21:13

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 24, 2024 13:19

AmnesiaLab: Nov 9, 2004; Stark raving sane.

Is Villain likely to check back the flop with TT-KK? I would expect a c-bet so they can at least rep the ace, and then likely check behind the turn for pot control if you called the flop. If that's the case, his checking range on the flop is even smaller.

Have you been check-raising a lot of c-bets? That could be one reason for him to check behind the flop with an ace. He could also think middling to good pairs make up enough of your range that betting the flop would scare off hands like JJ or TT, but checking behind with his aces might get one more bet into the pot on the turn before you kick it loose.

On that turn, though, raising after that flop play weights his hand toward monsters. Like Lote said, I don't think you can discount 88, and that's likely enough to tie you to the pot. A9, A8, and 98 aren't in his 3-betting range, presumably, and I doubt 44 is either. Even if they were, he'd have bet a split two or bottom two on the flop, and he'd probably c-bet 44 there, too. (If he somehow got here with A9, I suppose he could play it this way, but it's still weird, and what ABC player 3-bets A9?)

At the end of the day, a cooler is a cooler because there's no way you can get away. If you flat the turn, you might save some money, but it would take a better player that me to be capable of finding a fold here. Most of the time when I find a hero fold at 1/2 or 2/5, I'm hilariously wrong unless it's against a couple of opponents I'm intimately familiar with, so I quit doing that poo poo a while back. In all honesty, being able to find a fold here would probably hurt your long-term bottom line rather than help it.

# ? Apr 12, 2012 23:26

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The No Limit Hold'Em Critique Thread

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