p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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CaptainMeatpants: Jun 1, 2010

what is all this nerd poo poo

# ? May 1, 2012 22:02

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# ? May 9, 2024 06:08

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

ahhh spiders posted:

what's wrong with it?

dynamic typing, weak typing, no integers, hash tables as the primary abstraction

it's great if your alternative is Tcl or something, but programming has seen a few advances in the last 20 years and Lua hasn't adopted any of them.

# ? May 1, 2012 22:04

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

Gazpacho posted:

youre probably right, the recovery code for that must look terrible

no, im saying once you let ONE exception like that in, it all goes to poo poo

like opening a can of worms or something

# ? May 1, 2012 22:17

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

Janin posted:

programming has seen a few advances in the last 20 years and $lang hasn't adopted any of them.

# ? May 1, 2012 22:17

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Janin posted:

dynamic typing, weak typing, no integers, hash tables as the primary abstraction

it's great if your alternative is Tcl or something, but programming has seen a few advances in the last 20 years and Lua hasn't adopted any of them.

ephemerons

# ? May 1, 2012 22:59

The Best Christmas: May 13, 2011

i think i'm going to learn lolcode as my first language

# ? May 1, 2012 23:50

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

Janin posted:

dynamic typing, weak typing, no integers, hash tables as the primary abstraction

it's great if your alternative is Tcl or something, but programming has seen a few advances in the last 20 years and Lua hasn't adopted any of them.

lol

# ? May 2, 2012 00:22

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

you outdid yourself again

# ? May 2, 2012 00:22

Lysidas: Jul 26, 2002; John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.; Pillbug

tcl is cool because gitk

# ? May 2, 2012 00:43

EIDE Van Hagar: Dec 8, 2000; Beep Boop

tickle

# ? May 2, 2012 01:38

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

tef posted:

ephemerons

to elaborate, this came out in 97 and it is in lua 5.2. :smugdog:

# ? May 2, 2012 02:05

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

tef posted:

to elaborate, this came out in 97 and it is in lua 5.2.

Owns

# ? May 2, 2012 02:42

graph: Nov 22, 2006; aaag peanuts

didnt read the last 700 posts

# ? May 2, 2012 02:46

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

don't blame you, they're terrible.

# ? May 2, 2012 03:09

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

Lua ftw. Epic ftw

# ? May 2, 2012 03:11

duTrieux.: Oct 9, 2003

i saw a car on the freeway today with a sticker that had "epic fail" over an arrow pointing to the right, and it was on the right side of the car, but there wasn't really any room for it on the far right so it was still to the left of the make/model badge.

# ? May 2, 2012 03:39

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

ok so quick summary for those of you just joining us: tbc is always wrong, internaut doesn't know wtf, janin, well, janin is janin, spiders is mostly right and jawn and tef are always right. now, back to the thread, already in progress.

# ? May 2, 2012 03:47

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Tiny Bug Child posted:

unironically this

the old-school beardo attitude of crash-and-burning whenever there is the tiniest recoverable error is so stupid

a post by tiny bug child

# ? May 2, 2012 03:50

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

rotor posted:

ok so quick summary for those of you just joining us: tbc is always wrong, internaut doesn't know wtf, janin, well, janin is janin, spiders is mostly right and jawn and tef are always right. now, back to the thread, already in progress.

...

ALREADY IN PROGRESS!

# ? May 2, 2012 04:49

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

it's cool how simple lua is but there's all this sweet metatable stuff that lets you add complexity if you want it

# ? May 2, 2012 04:50

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

has anyone ever written forth? it seems so neat.

# ? May 2, 2012 04:53

ppp: Feb 13, 2012; by angerbot

rotor posted:

has anyone ever written forth? it seems so neat.

i suspect so

# ? May 2, 2012 04:54

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

I mean anyone in this thread you oaf

# ? May 2, 2012 04:55

Sneaking Mission: Nov 11, 2008

rotor posted:

has anyone ever written forth? it seems so neat.

# ? May 2, 2012 04:55

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

rotor posted:

has anyone ever written forth? it seems so neat.

forth is great for embedded systems, but it's kinda difficult to write maintainable programs in it because they trend towards being super-short and cryptic. you have to be the kind of person who enjoys busting out a whiteboard to diagram a line containing fourty single characters.

there's a guy I know who writes these little five-line forth programs to draw roses or bridges or such, they're cool.

# ? May 2, 2012 05:06

salted hash browns: Mar 26, 2007; ykrop

Low level code is for chumps

# ? May 2, 2012 05:06

Zaxxon: Feb 14, 2004; Wir Tanzen Mekanik

ahhh spiders posted:

it's cool how simple lua is but there's all this sweet metatable stuff that lets you add complexity if you want it

yeah, it's basically like if you took all the lovely parts out of javascript

# ? May 2, 2012 05:28

ppp: Feb 13, 2012; by angerbot

Zaxxon posted:

yeah, it's basically like if you took all the lovely parts out of javascript

i think what you are looking for is coffeescript

# ? May 2, 2012 05:29

coaxmetal: Oct 21, 2010; I flamed me own dad

im going to write something called espressoscript where its just javascript but I hosed around with the syntax a bit.

# ? May 2, 2012 05:30

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Ronald Raiden posted:

im going to write something called espressoscript where its just javascript but I hosed around with the syntax a bit.

too late, that's coffeescript

# ? May 2, 2012 05:31

ppp: Feb 13, 2012; by angerbot

Ronald Raiden posted:

im going to write something called espressoscript where its just javascript but I hosed around with the syntax a bit.

too late http://www.pmade.com/static/presentations/espresso.pdf

# ? May 2, 2012 05:32

coaxmetal: Oct 21, 2010; I flamed me own dad

ok how about expresso

# ? May 2, 2012 05:33

Zaxxon: Feb 14, 2004; Wir Tanzen Mekanik

ppp posted:

i think what you are looking for is coffeescript

yeah but I could also just stick with lua, seeing as it's already super great.

# ? May 2, 2012 05:35

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

if you're the one writing it, call it "weak drip"

# ? May 2, 2012 05:36

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

rotor posted:

has anyone ever written forth? it seems so neat.

it's a neat idea but i've met some of chuck moore's clique and they're pretty cultish, always talking about the great things that could be done with forth except that the "forth philosophy" says you shouldn't

i suppose if you wants to write actual programs in 100% continuation passing style by hand that's the language to do it in

# ? May 2, 2012 05:46

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Gazpacho posted:

it's a neat idea but i've met some of chuck moore's clique and they're pretty cultish, always talking about the great things that could be done with forth except that the "forth philosophy" says you shouldn't

i suppose if you wants to write actual programs in 100% continuation passing style by hand that's the language to do it in

brb downloading forth compiler

# ? May 2, 2012 05:47

EIDE Van Hagar: Dec 8, 2000; Beep Boop

in my previous life in semiconductor manufacturing i used to use a Varian EHP 500 ion implanter that all ran on forth. the front end was a normal x86 PC with a touch screen but the whole realtime system for moving the robots and doing dosimetry calculations was written in forth and ran on some weird forth CPU.

i tried to write a program in forth for it once just to move the robot arms around and it was totally baffling so i gave up, hth.

# ? May 2, 2012 05:57

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

btw i'm not really talking about ansi forth, i'm talking about any one of chuck moore's custom forths like this one that replaces the OS and color highlighting is operationally significant and it has its own optimized keyboard layout

also here's a photo of chuck which would make a good avatar

# ? May 2, 2012 05:58

EIDE Van Hagar: Dec 8, 2000; Beep Boop

huh heres an ehp500 for sale if you want a weird forth hardware system and some robots:

http://www.caeonline.com/listing/product/145581/varian-e500-ehp

it even has the "productivity plus" upgrade which gave you a blazing fast 1GHz PIII for the front end in 2006 and only cost $40,000, and another robot arm for moving poo poo around faster.

EIDE Van Hagar fucked around with this message at 06:03 on May 2, 2012

# ? May 2, 2012 06:01

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# ? May 9, 2024 06:08

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

Gazpacho posted:

i suppose if you wants to write actual programs in 100% continuation passing style by hand that's the language to do it in

I thought i'd put in a little :effort:

and write up what I mean. I've had this in the back of my mind for a few weeks but I've never seen it discussed online because Forth is a kind of ghetto language to academics. Take your naive Fibonacci in Javascript.

code:

function fib(n) {
  if(n < 2)
    return 1;
  else {
    return fib(n - 1) + fib(n - 2);
}

Next transform just the fib function to continuation style. Note that it's starting to look like postfix because you have the two recursive fibs first then the addition.

code:

function fib(n, cont) {
  if(n < 2)
    cont(1);
  else {
    fib(n - 1, function(x) {
      fib(n - 2, function(y) {
        cont(x + y);
      });
    });
  }
}

Now go all out and transform the operators and control statements as well.

code:

function fib(n, cont) {
  op<(n, 2, function(x0) {
    ifelse(x0,
      function() { cont(1); },
      function() {
        op-(n, 1, function(x1) {
          fib(x1, function(x2) {
            op-(n, 2, function(x3) {
              fib(x3, function(x4) {
                op+(x2, x4, cont);
              });
            });
          });
        });
      });
    });
}

From this you can read off the corresponding Forth code line by line.

code:

// ": fib" (define fib)
function fib(n, cont) {
  // "dup" (preserve n for later use) "2 <"
  op<(n, 2, function(x0) {
    // "if"
    ifelse(x0,
      // "drop" (n not used on this branch) "1"
      function() { cont(1); },
      // "else"
      function() {
        // "dup" (preserve n) "1 -"
        op-(n, 1, function(x1) {
          // "fib"
          fib(x1, function(x2) {
            // "swap" (reach up the stack past x2 to get n for last use) "2 -"
            op-(n, 2, function(x3) {
              // "fib"
              fib(x3, function(x4) {
                // "+ then" (end of false branch) ";" (call cont)
                op+(x2, x4, cont);
...

Result:

code:

: fib dup 2 < if drop 1 else dup 1 - fib swap 2 - fib + then ;

There's a quirk here that the second cont call translates to ; but the first doesn't. colorForth actually handles this consistently so "else" becomes ";".

Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 11:45 on May 2, 2012

# ? May 2, 2012 11:40

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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