p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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Police Academy III: Nov 4, 2011

Fren posted:

common lisp rules face

# ? May 6, 2012 22:33

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# ? May 9, 2024 16:57

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

Police Academy III posted:

because the list doesn't have 7 elements, the language never tells you if you're using an index that's out of range. it just magically does something which is, again, pretty php

what's magic about it? lua has a pretty small set of universally true rules that govern the entire design of the language and if i, a confirmed braindead moron, can remember them, then anyone can. you're just griping for the sake of it

# ? May 6, 2012 22:34

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

also there's no such thing as an index being out of range, because it's a table

# ? May 6, 2012 22:35

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

pretty much all dynamic languages do autovivification to some extent, that's not really a php thing

# ? May 6, 2012 22:38

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

Otto Skorzeny posted:

pretty much all dynamic languages do autovivification to some extent, that's not really a php thing

it's not autovivification

# ? May 6, 2012 22:39

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

whoops

# ? May 6, 2012 22:42

Police Academy III: Nov 4, 2011

ahhh spiders posted:

you're just griping for the sake of it

of course i am, i don't use lua.

ahhh spiders posted:

also there's no such thing as an index being out of range, because it's a table

that's my whole point! arrays are not tables, they should have semantics specific to arrays, like index bounds. assembly lets you use a machine word as an int or a memory address or a float or an instruction, but most of the time that's not a good idea and you want assurance that something that is intended to be used in a certain way will be used in that way.

# ? May 6, 2012 22:43

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

Police Academy III posted:

of course i am, i don't use lua.

that's my whole point! arrays are not tables, they should have semantics specific to arrays, like index bounds. assembly lets you use a machine word as an int or a memory address or a float or an instruction, but most of the time that's not a good idea and you want assurance that something that is intended to be used in a certain way will be used in that way.

hmm nah

# ? May 6, 2012 22:44

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Police Academy III posted:

that's my whole point! arrays are not tables, they should have semantics specific to arrays, like index bounds. assembly lets you use a machine word as an int or a memory address or a float or an instruction, but most of the time that's not a good idea and you want assurance that something that is intended to be used in a certain way will be used in that way.

lua doesn't have arrays. it has tables.

if you want to complain that it *should* have arrays, that's fine, but stop pretending to be offended because the lua implementers decided your pet feature wasn't necessary to the language.

# ? May 6, 2012 22:54

Police Academy III: Nov 4, 2011

Janin posted:

lua doesn't have arrays. it has tables.

if you want to complain that it *should* have arrays, that's fine, but stop pretending to be offended because the lua implementers decided your pet feature wasn't necessary to the language.

frig off janin, a proper array datatype is hardly an obscure feature request

# ? May 6, 2012 22:56

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Police Academy III posted:

frig off janin, a proper array datatype is hardly an obscure feature request

obscure or not, they're not necessary. arrays are only useful if you're going to be doing some sort of performance-sensitive computation. lua is explicitly designed to be a glue language, so there's no point in having features like arrays.

# ? May 6, 2012 22:58

Police Academy III: Nov 4, 2011

Janin posted:

obscure or not, they're not necessary. arrays are only useful if you're going to be doing some sort of performance-sensitive computation. lua is explicitly designed to be a glue language, so there's no point in having features like arrays.

it's not about performance, i don't care if they implement arrays with a loving bloom filter. it's about ensuring that data that is supposed to be used in a certain way is actually being used in that way. the single most common type of datastructure in all programming is "numbered list of stuff", in lua you have no guarantee that a numbered list of stuff will remain a numbered list of stuff.

# ? May 6, 2012 23:09

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

Janin posted:

lua doesn't have arrays. it has tables.

if you want to complain that it *should* have arrays, that's fine, but stop pretending to be offended because the lua implementers decided your pet feature wasn't necessary to the language.

# ? May 6, 2012 23:12

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

Janin posted:

obscure or not, they're not necessary. arrays are only useful if you're going to be doing some sort of performance-sensitive computation. lua is explicitly designed to be a glue language, so there's no point in having features like arrays.

# ? May 6, 2012 23:12

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

Police Academy III posted:

frig off janin, a proper array datatype is hardly an obscure feature request

arrays are just a specialization of tables, which happen to be in lua already

# ? May 6, 2012 23:12

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Police Academy III posted:

it's not about performance, i don't care if they implement arrays with a loving bloom filter. it's about ensuring that data that is supposed to be used in a certain way is actually being used in that way. the single most common type of datastructure in all programming is "numbered list of stuff", in lua you have no guarantee that a numbered list of stuff will remain a numbered list of stuff.

So go write an array type yourself. Or use someone else's -- if they're as useful as you claim, someone else will already have written one.

ahhh spiders posted:

arrays are just a specialization of tables, which happen to be in lua already

Arrays are not a specialisation of tables, any more than integers are a specialisation of strings (shut up TBC)

# ? May 6, 2012 23:15

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

Janin posted:

So go write an array type yourself. Or use someone else's -- if they're as useful as you claim, someone else will already have written one.

Arrays are not a specialisation of tables, any more than integers are a specialisation of strings (shut up TBC)

they're tables with a contiguous and totally ordered keyset

# ? May 6, 2012 23:17

Police Academy III: Nov 4, 2011

Janin posted:

So go write an array type yourself. Or use someone else's -- if they're as useful as you claim, someone else will already have written one.

man idgaf, i just don't really understand why spiders is so hot to trot about lua when it has bad php stuff in it.

# ? May 6, 2012 23:19

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

Police Academy III posted:

man idgaf, i just don't really understand why spiders is so hot to trot about lua when it has bad php stuff in it.

can you really not resist trolling

# ? May 6, 2012 23:20

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Police Academy III posted:

because the list doesn't have 7 elements, the language never tells you if you're using an index that's out of range. it just magically does something which is, again, pretty php

in this sentence, "php" means "correct"

# ? May 6, 2012 23:20

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

welcome to my ignore list

# ? May 6, 2012 23:20

Police Academy III: Nov 4, 2011

ahhh spiders posted:

welcome to my ignore list

can you buy me a big red title too? it'd be nice to get rid of babytar here.

# ? May 6, 2012 23:22

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

did someone say something

# ? May 6, 2012 23:23

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

ahhh spiders posted:

they're tables with a contiguous and totally ordered keyset

no; an array is a contiguous memory allocation with fixed-size homogeneous elements.

it's true that an array can be losslessly converted to a table and back, but that's not the same as saying that arrays are a type of table.

# ? May 6, 2012 23:27

penus de milo: Mar 9, 2002; CHAR CHAR

ahhh spiders posted:

some weird attachment to C techniques

but enough about CoC

penus de milo fucked around with this message at 23:32 on May 6, 2012

# ? May 6, 2012 23:29

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

Janin posted:

no; an array is a contiguous memory allocation with fixed-size homogeneous elements.

it's true that an array can be losslessly converted to a table and back, but that's not the same as saying that arrays are a type of table.

that sounds more like a C definition of an array

# ? May 6, 2012 23:31

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

idk who said it but yeah, gently caress immutable strings now and gently caress them forever, that poo poo sucks you fags

# ? May 6, 2012 23:51

blorpy: Jan 5, 2005

idk, the advantages to immutable strings seem pretty obvious

# ? May 6, 2012 23:56

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Markov Chain Chomp posted:

idk, the advantages to immutable strings seem pretty obvious

and so do the disadvantages so we're at an impasse cpt math

# ? May 6, 2012 23:57

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

what's wrong with strings being immutable?

# ? May 6, 2012 23:58

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

ahhh spiders posted:

what's wrong with strings being immutable?

its inefficient and if you're using a garbage collector will easily swamp the gc with a ton of unused strings unless you just use a char buffer and, well, then you've basically taken an endrun around immutable strings anyway

# ? May 7, 2012 00:00

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

why are you changing the same string so many times? get it right the first time

# ? May 7, 2012 00:04

blorpy: Jan 5, 2005

just dont build strings until you have everything ready problem solved

# ? May 7, 2012 00:06

Jonny 290: May 5, 2005; [ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

i do my math in ink and i like my strings immutable

a blurbity bloo blargh

# ? May 7, 2012 00:24

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

rotor posted:

its inefficient and if you're using a garbage collector will easily swamp the gc with a ton of unused strings unless you just use a char buffer and, well, then you've basically taken an endrun around immutable strings anyway

what do you mean use one thing when it's appropriate and another thing when it's not? there must be one thing that you do every time in every situation

# ? May 7, 2012 01:23

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

oh no i'm creating 1k of garbage per second from unnecessary string copying ~~MY EFFICIENCY~~

# ? May 7, 2012 01:26

penus de milo: Mar 9, 2002; CHAR CHAR

"but what if you were programming on an embedded device with 256k of ram"
- an idiot in every one of these threads

# ? May 7, 2012 01:28

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Nomnom Cookie posted:

oh no i'm creating 1k of garbage per second from unnecessary string copying ~~MY EFFICIENCY~~

check it out, its a guy who has never paid attention to what the garbage collector does

*makes a billion temporary objects*
goddamn java is so slow gently caress this poo poo sucks

# ? May 7, 2012 01:28

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

rotor posted:

check it out, its a guy who has never paid attention to what the garbage collector does

*makes a billion temporary objects*
goddamn java is so slow gently caress this poo poo sucks

being mindful of the fact that these things might come into play is different than being intensely preoccupied with optimisation to the detriment of readability/productivity

vapid cutlery fucked around with this message at 01:41 on May 7, 2012

# ? May 7, 2012 01:30

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# ? May 9, 2024 16:57

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

rotor posted:

*makes a billion temporary objects*
goddamn java is so slow gently caress this poo poo sucks

shitrotorsays.txt

# ? May 7, 2012 01:36

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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