p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Internaut! posted:

eh have you done this on the newer generational gcs

iirc you can literally create a billion strings in a tight loop and they all get swept away almost immediately without loving up the heap

actually no I havent

# ? May 7, 2012 14:49

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# ? May 8, 2024 22:48

Catalyst-proof: May 11, 2011; better waste some time with you

Gentle Autist posted:

hammer/nail sulk/anything

when all you have is a sulk, everything looks like a anything

# ? May 7, 2012 15:20

skeevy achievements: Feb 25, 2008; by merry exmarx

rotor posted:

actually no I havent

one of my first jobs was to help a client move their platform from AIX/C to Windows/Java and my job was to use MQSeries to connect the two

requests were taking minutes to process, and unfortunately they isolated the problem to somewhere in my code which I claimed which was impossible (because my code didn't really do much except some Java object<->text message translation)

on a hunch I decompiled the IBM's MQ client Java code and found that they were building MQ messages like this really abusive pseudocode

code:

String mqMessage
while incomingMessage.hasMoreCharacters
    mqMessage += nextCharacter

as you know this means they were creating a brand new String of len i for i = 1 to the length of the incoming message, which was typically a few hundred kB, or in other words they were creating ~300,000 Strings at 150kB average size every time they parsed a message in or out

this was the first time I thought the difference between myself and the IBMs of the world might boil down to just marketing and I soon got out of technology consulting

# ? May 7, 2012 15:40

Lysidas: Jul 26, 2002; John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.; Pillbug

(I know jack poo poo about IBM's internal organizatoin, which I'm perfectly fine with) It seems like theres two IBMs: the brilliant people who do crazy poo poo like super-amazing-optimized floating point hardware layout that is still hard to beat, even though the guy was named an IBM fellow for this 20+ years ago, and Watson the jeopardy playing computer

and then the people who manage to concatenate a bunch of strings in time that's quadratic in the length of the output

AFAIK javac from newer JDK releases (maybe > 1.4) will try compile that to a StringBuilder or StringBuffer if you're too dumb to do this yourself

emphasis on "try" to help you with this; i don't know how fragile it is, e.g. "oops, ia dded a variable and now javac can't figure out how to save me from myself"

Relying on javac to help you is pretty dangerous because javac is really stupid

# ? May 7, 2012 16:13

Lysidas: Jul 26, 2002; John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.; Pillbug

srsly magic happens at the Thomas J. Watson Research Center

It's like Google for adults/professionals

The PI for the watson project gave a talk at my university; it was amazing to see the development process for a computer that can play jeopardy

16TB of RAM, IIRC

or was it 128TB. I think something like 2880 CPU cores too

Lysidas fucked around with this message at 16:19 on May 7, 2012

# ? May 7, 2012 16:17

git apologist: Jun 4, 2003

Fren posted:

when all you have is a sulk, everything looks like a anything

rcp nigga

# ? May 7, 2012 16:42

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Werthog posted:

your posting is always pretty poo poo but this one in particular was offensively bad. please leave and never return.

have you heard of the Overton window? You need me. Not generic "you", you, Werthog, need me to keep posting so you look barely tolerable by comparison.

# ? May 7, 2012 16:45

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

rotor posted:

nice comeback, rotor is old, interesting

it took me a solid five minutes to figure out what you meant because that was actually accidental and I just liked the sound of "poo poo rotor says"

btw are you old old or just boomer old

# ? May 7, 2012 16:50

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

Lysidas posted:

(I know jack poo poo about IBM's internal organizatoin, which I'm perfectly fine with) It seems like theres two IBMs: the brilliant people who do crazy poo poo like super-amazing-optimized floating point hardware layout that is still hard to beat, even though the guy was named an IBM fellow for this 20+ years ago, and Watson the jeopardy playing computer

and then the people who manage to concatenate a bunch of strings in time that's quadratic in the length of the output

AFAIK javac from newer JDK releases (maybe > 1.4) will try compile that to a StringBuilder or StringBuffer if you're too dumb to do this yourself

emphasis on "try" to help you with this; i don't know how fragile it is, e.g. "oops, ia dded a variable and now javac can't figure out how to save me from myself"

Relying on javac to help you is pretty dangerous because javac is really stupid

proof?

# ? May 7, 2012 17:10

Lysidas: Jul 26, 2002; John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.; Pillbug

ugh fine

Stringer.java:

code:

public class Stringer
{
	public static void main(String[] args)
	{
		String s = "";
		for (int i = 0; i < 100; i++)
		{
			s += i;
		}
		System.out.println(s);
	}
}

code:

$ javac Stringer.java
$ javap -c Stringer
Compiled from "Stringer.java"
public class Stringer {
  public Stringer();
    Code:
       0: aload_0       
       1: invokespecial #1                  // Method java/lang/Object."<init>":()V
       4: return        

  public static void main(java.lang.String[]);
    Code:
       0: ldc           #2                  // String 
       2: astore_1      
       3: iconst_0      
       4: istore_2      
       5: iload_2       
       6: bipush        100
       8: if_icmpge     36
      11: new           #3                  // class java/lang/StringBuilder
      14: dup           
      15: invokespecial #4                  // Method java/lang/StringBuilder."<init>":()V
      18: aload_1       
      19: invokevirtual #5                  // Method java/lang/StringBuilder.append:(Ljava/lang/String;)Ljava/lang/StringBuilder;
      22: iload_2       
      23: invokevirtual #6                  // Method java/lang/StringBuilder.append:(I)Ljava/lang/StringBuilder;
      26: invokevirtual #7                  // Method java/lang/StringBuilder.toString:()Ljava/lang/String;
      29: astore_1      
      30: iinc          2, 1
      33: goto          5
      36: getstatic     #8                  // Field java/lang/System.out:Ljava/io/PrintStream;
      39: aload_1       
      40: invokevirtual #9                  // Method java/io/PrintStream.println:(Ljava/lang/String;)V
      43: return        
}
$ java -version
java version "1.7.0_03"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_03-b04)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 22.1-b02, mixed mode)

# ? May 7, 2012 17:18

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

i meant proof that javac was stupid

# ? May 7, 2012 17:21

Lysidas: Jul 26, 2002; John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.; Pillbug

# ? May 7, 2012 17:26

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

lua wins again

# ? May 7, 2012 17:26

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Lysidas posted:

ugh fine

Stringer.java:

code:

public class Stringer
{
	public static void main(String[] args)
	{
		String s = "";
		for (int i = 0; i < 100; i++)
		{
			s += i;
		}
		System.out.println(s);
	}
}

code:

$ javac Stringer.java
$ javap -c Stringer
Compiled from "Stringer.java"
public class Stringer {
  public Stringer();
    Code:
       0: aload_0       
       1: invokespecial #1                  // Method java/lang/Object."<init>":()V
       4: return        

  public static void main(java.lang.String[]);
    Code:
       0: ldc           #2                  // String 
       2: astore_1      
       3: iconst_0      
       4: istore_2      
       5: iload_2       
       6: bipush        100
       8: if_icmpge     36
      11: new           #3                  // class java/lang/StringBuilder
      14: dup           
      15: invokespecial #4                  // Method java/lang/StringBuilder."<init>":()V
      18: aload_1       
      19: invokevirtual #5                  // Method java/lang/StringBuilder.append:(Ljava/lang/String;)Ljava/lang/StringBuilder;
      22: iload_2       
      23: invokevirtual #6                  // Method java/lang/StringBuilder.append:(I)Ljava/lang/StringBuilder;
      26: invokevirtual #7                  // Method java/lang/StringBuilder.toString:()Ljava/lang/String;
      29: astore_1      
      30: iinc          2, 1
      33: goto          5
      36: getstatic     #8                  // Field java/lang/System.out:Ljava/io/PrintStream;
      39: aload_1       
      40: invokevirtual #9                  // Method java/io/PrintStream.println:(Ljava/lang/String;)V
      43: return        
}
$ java -version
java version "1.7.0_03"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_03-b04)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 22.1-b02, mixed mode)

if you're wondering, much of hotspot's optimiser, is dedicated to making up for programmers not understanding java

# ? May 7, 2012 17:47

Lysidas: Jul 26, 2002; John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.; Pillbug

tef posted:

if you're wondering, much of hotspot's optimiser, is dedicated to making up for programmers not understanding java

this is exactly what i meant by "javac is stupid"

i meant stupid = do one simple thing, do it well; and that thing is converting java source code to JVM bytecode.

the real magic happens in the JVM, and expecting javac to do any meaningful optimizations is unwise

(of course converting java source code is nowhere near as simple as it once was, because of the hosed generics design)

# ? May 7, 2012 18:00

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

generics is hilarious

# ? May 7, 2012 18:13

Peanut and the Gang: Aug 24, 2009; by exmarx

i wish there was only one programming language ever. then people wouldnt have to argue.

# ? May 7, 2012 21:51

Lysidas: Jul 26, 2002; John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.; Pillbug

PATH is by far the coolest programming language

# ? May 7, 2012 22:02

cowboy beepboop: Feb 24, 2001

when can i just use python instead of javascript

# ? May 7, 2012 23:06

Lysidas: Jul 26, 2002; John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.; Pillbug

you've been able to for like a year and a half :rolleyes:

http://syntensity.com/static/python.html

# ? May 7, 2012 23:11

dragon enthusiast: Jan 1, 2010

barbarianbob posted:

i wish there was only one programming language ever. then people wouldnt have to argue.

verilog

# ? May 7, 2012 23:51

GameCube: Nov 21, 2006

just a butt posted:

verilog

ASICs for everything. i can get behind this

# ? May 8, 2012 00:01

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

Lysidas posted:

you've been able to for like a year and a half

http://syntensity.com/static/python.html

lmao

# ? May 8, 2012 00:02

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

using stringbuffer/builder when it makes sense to use it is like the second thing people are taught in java so i dont know what you're spergin about

# ? May 8, 2012 00:03

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

Lysidas posted:

The PI for the watson project gave a talk at my university; it was amazing to see the development process for a computer that can play jeopardy

truly a grownup goal

# ? May 8, 2012 00:06

Toady: Jan 12, 2009

rotor posted:

someone's gotta pay for the internet, it sure as gently caress ain't gonna be you

do web developers really get mad like this over ads

# ? May 8, 2012 00:07

penus de milo: Mar 9, 2002; CHAR CHAR

Toady posted:

do web developers really get mad like this over ads

internet nerds be like "gently caress your banner ads i use adblock :cool:

" so the supernerds gotta be like " :rolleyes:

adblock is lame you guys are idiots"

# ? May 8, 2012 00:09

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

is it really that hard for some people to not look at ads

# ? May 8, 2012 00:37

Sang-: Nov 2, 2007

Lysidas posted:

(of course converting java source code is nowhere near as simple as it once was, because of the hosed generics design)

on one hand java generics are poo poo. type erasure is really handy all none of the times.

on the other hand it was mostly designed by martin odersky, who basically designed scala himself and is an awesome language that uses a load of neat tricks to get around the limitations of the jvm, which makes the me think that the reason generics are poo poo is the jvm/backwards compatibility.

# ? May 8, 2012 00:38

skeevy achievements: Feb 25, 2008; by merry exmarx

yeah it's not like sun didn't know how to implement generics in the jvm

but by not doing so they kept the jvm stable and also didn't impose any new restrictions on the cool kids like scala and clojure and other poo poo that will keep the jvm rocking for another 10 years

# ? May 8, 2012 01:03

Hammerite: Mar 9, 2007; And you don't remember what I said here, either, but it was pompous and stupid.; Jade Ear Joe

tef ive seen you say that in python strings are "infinitely deep" a couuple of times. what does this mean tia

# ? May 8, 2012 01:29

Police Academy III: Nov 4, 2011

Hammerite posted:

tef ive seen you say that in python strings are "infinitely deep" a couuple of times. what does this mean tia

it means that indexing a string gives you another string, so you can do "fart"[0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0]...

# ? May 8, 2012 02:02

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

lol
>>> repr(""[1:])
"''"

# ? May 8, 2012 02:02

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Sang- posted:

on one hand java generics are poo poo. type erasure is really handy all none of the times.

on the other hand it was mostly designed by martin odersky, who basically designed scala himself and is an awesome language that uses a load of neat tricks to get around the limitations of the jvm, which makes the me think that the reason generics are poo poo is the jvm/backwards compatibility.

yeah it's not exactly a secret that type erasure is because back compat

# ? May 8, 2012 02:05

Hammerite: Mar 9, 2007; And you don't remember what I said here, either, but it was pompous and stupid.; Jade Ear Joe

Police Academy III posted:

it means that indexing a string gives you another string, so you can do "fart"[0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0][0]...

oh. i assumed it would be something more interesting than that. idk why you'd care much about that

# ? May 8, 2012 02:05

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

Hammerite posted:

oh. i assumed it would be something more interesting than that. idk why you'd care much about that

from what i've seen most of the complaints people seem to have about various languages are because they do things differently than other languages they've used

# ? May 8, 2012 02:07

EIDE Van Hagar: Dec 8, 2000; Beep Boop

just a butt posted:

verilog

systemverilog is the one true verilog

# ? May 8, 2012 02:22

jony neuemonic: Nov 13, 2009

ahhh spiders posted:

most of the complaints people seem to have about various languages are because they do things differently than other languages they've used

# ? May 8, 2012 02:31

double sulk: Jul 2, 2010

one of the biggest problems with many programming languages today is lovely documentation

# ? May 8, 2012 02:40

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# ? May 8, 2024 22:48

blorpy: Jan 5, 2005

Sulk posted:

one of the biggest problems with many programming languages today is lovely documentation

just because you dont understand programming doesnt mean the documentation is bad

# ? May 8, 2012 03:06

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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