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Raenir Salazar posted:There was an article linked here to me before that I can't seem to find that is about how Germany's strong union presence and workers coops helped keep Germany's manufacturing sector strong while it atrophied nearly everywhere else. A friend of mine is insisting otherwise, that it is anti union laws keeping German industrial growth going. Can anyone relink this to me? I will greatly appreciate it. I don´t know if this: http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,822167-2,00.html is the article you meant but it does deal with Germany´s economic model compared to the US.
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Apr 2, 2012 19:36
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So apparently Germany just made racial profiling legal.quote:Court: skin colour good reason for cop ID check http://www.thelocal.de/national/20120327-41589.html This is gonna do wonders to help "integration" (what a poo poo term).
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Apr 4, 2012 11:09
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God drat it. The English should never have stopped bombing us.
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Apr 4, 2012 18:30
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Haha I knew it! A friend of mine is of Persian descend and he is searched by customs every time he enters Bavaria by train over the inner German border. Yeah there are people from customs searching people who travel on national train routes.
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Apr 4, 2012 18:43
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The Brown Menace posted:So apparently Germany just made racial profiling legal. The Local articles are also posted to Toytowngermany...some of these comments... billy15 posted:It is probably not that presumptuous if they are immigration police looking for illegal immigrants, therefore they should look at people that look like immigrants. schliesser92 posted:We just have to live with profiling of some sort if we want to live in a safer society.
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Apr 5, 2012 09:39
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Plankalkuel posted:Haha I knew it! My white American friends wonder why I staunchly refuse to ever go to Bavaria except for riding along with a possible future civilizing force. Seriously though I love how this yet again proves what a one-sided sham the current "integration" model is. "Hey guys integrate and you'll just be another citizen!" "Ok I am indistinguishable from a white German." "Here you go, second class citizenship! Enjoy!" clownpenis posted:The Local articles are also posted to Toytowngermany...some of these comments... Thanks for weighing in on the matter, complete foreigners who can gently caress straight back off to the US or Britain or whatever.  Someone should also let these dimwits know that a shitton of illegal immigration is from lily-white eastern Europe. Although please don't, they might suggest on-the-spot craniometry.
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Apr 5, 2012 11:28
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Oh god, the amount of drama coming from that piece by old man Grass has now gone from "setting my Facebook feed aflame" to "promoting heated arguments that keep me and my best friend from having a chill discussion in our local brewery of choice". And one of the drunkards complaining hadn't even read the piece and based all of his vitriolic outrage on a radio report he "overheard". 
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Apr 5, 2012 12:02
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The Brown Menace posted:Thanks for weighing in on the matter, complete foreigners who can gently caress straight back off to the US or Britain or whatever. No poo poo. I mean, Toytown can be a really informative place sometimes, especially for people who don't "get" Germany right off the bat, but more often than not, you get a lot of snarky comments from bitter ex-pats. A lot of these people might have been genuinely decent individuals when they lived in the US and wanted to escape to whatever liberal paradise they imagined Germany to be at the time. I think that most of them quickly realized that their summer job teaching English wasn't real secure for the long-term, but were too stubborn to give up and go home. There's also a lot of hypocrisy an thinly veiled racism from some of the longer-time posters concerning welfare, too. "No, you see, I deserve Hartz IV/Kindergeld because blah blah blah...those Turks and Africans on the other hand..." There's also a thread where some girl describes needing an abortion and the medical staff treat her like utter poo poo. The majority of the comments are real nice and supportive, but then there's some guy actually arguing that basically "welp, she shouldn't expect great service if she chose to act like a slut. I mean, what if the doctor was having a bad day?"
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Apr 5, 2012 13:06
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In other news, Islamists have started stabbing police men who were protecting demonstrators. This isn't exactly helping their cause.
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May 7, 2012 15:04
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BabyFur Denny posted:In other news, Islamists have started stabbing police men who were protecting demonstrators. This isn't exactly helping their cause. This doesn't really hurt them, the salafists are pretty much the poster child for radical religious extremists in Germany. They don't aim for acceptance, they seek controversy so they can cry about being discriminated against when their demagogues are thrown out of the country or the Verfassungsschutz raids their offices.
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May 7, 2012 15:47
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hankor posted:This doesn't really hurt them, the salafists are pretty much the poster child for radical religious extremists in Germany. They don't aim for acceptance, they seek controversy so they can cry about being discriminated against when their demagogues are thrown out of the country or the Verfassungsschutz raids their offices. So those violent clashes are in the best interest of both pro NRW and Salafists. Fun.
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May 7, 2012 15:58
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I'd say so, the pro NRW guys get a perfect example of those whacky muslims doing stupid poo poo over Mohammed caricatures and the Salafists get to show that they are not afraid to get their hands dirty in the name of religion. It's win-win for them, it's just sad that some police officers that are just doing their job have to babysit those assholes and get hurt while protecting people that hate them.
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May 7, 2012 16:14
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In some other news, the results for the elections of the Landtag in Schleswig-Holstein are in: http://landtagswahl-sh.de/wahlen.ph...ch=0&mode=liste Compared to 2009, the SPD made some gains while the CDU lost a little and they're pretty much even now at ~30%. The Grüne are pretty stable with some slight gains at 13,2 %. The FDP on the other hand suffered some severe losses and were in fact almost overtaken by the Pirates, both of them at 8,2%.  This is also the first time the Pirates got any seats in the SH-Landtag. Die Linke did not make it over the 5% hurdle this time. Finally there's the SSW at 4,6%, and as they're representing the danish minority in SH they don't need to pass 5% to get seats in the Landtag.Both SPD and CDU have announced that they want to rule. However it seems that the SPD has much better chances, as their planned coalition of SPD, Grüne and SSW (which would give them a 1-seat majority) would likely be tolerated by the Pirates. The CDU's only options would be either a great coalition (SPD+CDU) or one between CDU, FDP and Grüne. Both options seem rather unlikely, the former because the SPD doesn't really have a reason to cooperate with the CDU, and both Grüne and have declared their unwillingness to enter the latter. I'm fairly happy that we're (probably) rid of CDU/FDP. However to me the most interesting part is the resounding success of the Pirates, who made the strongest gains compared to 2009 with +6,4%. I'm interested to see whether they'll stick with their relatively narrow thematic scope or if they'll branch out to form a more comprehensive set of positions. Perestroika fucked around with this message at 10:51 on May 8, 2012 |
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May 8, 2012 10:48
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At this point, the FDP has to count it as a major victory that they are even in the Landtag.
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May 8, 2012 12:13
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Based on their reactions, they do.
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May 8, 2012 12:14
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While the recent developments are pretty , I'm more interested in this openly proposed mutiny against Rössler and what his reaction will be. I'm curious whether he'll grow some balls and attempt to put the mutineers in their place as opposed to growing balls just large enough to mildly backstab Merkel for his personal gain.
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May 8, 2012 12:31
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The pirates are too successful, too fast. It will come back and hurt them in the near future.
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May 8, 2012 16:37
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Hungry Gerbil posted:The pirates are too successful, too fast. It will come back and hurt them in the near future. Yeah, I think it'll just speed up the process of people noticing they can't keep their promises and don't really know what they are doing, anyway. Which I think is the exact resentment their voters feel towards the established parties, and which drives them to vote pirates in the first place. What really rubs me the wrong way about that party is that their base is seriously the most irritating of them all. This is the only thread I have seen where the pirates being mocked did not bring their supporters out of the woodwork to start an e-argument. Gotta love how they keep complaining the press is mean to them, and the other parties too, wah wah. Because the press writes only nice things about the big parties, and your opposition's job is to not hurt your feelings.
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May 8, 2012 17:56
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^^^ If you really want to irritate Piraten ask them about the blatant sexism in their party and the success of right wing politicians. Has anyone else seen Christopher Lauer when he was on Stuckrad-Late Night? It was pretty amazing to see someone that is even more of a prick than BvSB. When asked about rather important issues he flat out admitted that neither he nor the rest of the party have given any thoughts about their stance. Being boring and pretty rude didn't help either. hankor fucked around with this message at 18:44 on May 8, 2012 |
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May 8, 2012 18:41
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I just checked the show out on YT, had to turn it off cause I couldn't take Lauer anymore. Just because there's one German politician who looks sophisticated just by sitting around and smoking doesn't mean that dumbass should imitate him.  By the way, the moment where I turned the show off was this clip of him speaking at the parliament, which is, admittedly, comedy gold. Lauer basically accuses the parliament of being full of jocks who did not invite his party members to their birthday parties, and tells them to be ashamed when they collectively go 'awww'. vvv If in the future the pirates get to share the protest voter niche with die Linke without hope of ever gaining real political power, then I'll be happy. Ententod fucked around with this message at 20:30 on May 8, 2012 |
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May 8, 2012 20:15
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Ententod posted:Yeah, I think it'll just speed up the process of people noticing they can't keep their promises and don't really know what they are doing, anyway. Die Linke has been fine like this for 5 years now. Unless the Pirates actually get to be in power somewhere I doubt that's going to happen.
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May 8, 2012 20:20
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Ententod posted:I just checked the show out on YT, had to turn it off cause I couldn't take Lauer anymore. Just because there's one German politician who looks sophisticated just by sitting around and smoking doesn't mean that dumbass should imitate him. The pirates could establish a new style of politics. I mean, their base message is the one every single party in parliament should have (control the Government, make sure it isn't doing poo poo its not supposed to) but which they usually don't take as seriously as they should. They could also pioneer new forms of allowing the public to participate in policymaking, which is probably one of the reasons for the Politikverdrossenheit - people have given up the idea that they can actually effect any change in Government or Parliament policies. Of course, that would require them to sit down and get to loving work. And why do that when you can just sit back and watch the rest of the political parties flail around and complain if they hit you in the process.
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May 8, 2012 21:10
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Ententod posted:I just checked the show out on YT, had to turn it off cause I couldn't take Lauer anymore. Just because there's one German politician who looks sophisticated just by sitting around and smoking doesn't mean that dumbass should imitate him. You missed the best part, at the end they have a contest to see who's ADHS is more severe. Not only does Lauer fail as a politician, he also fails as the self-aware laid back nerd he tries to imitate. ArchangeI posted:The pirates could establish a new style of politics. I mean, their base message is the one every single party in parliament should have (control the Government, make sure it isn't doing poo poo its not supposed to) but which they usually don't take as seriously as they should. They could also pioneer new forms of allowing the public to participate in policymaking, which is probably one of the reasons for the Politikverdrossenheit - people have given up the idea that they can actually effect any change in Government or Parliament policies. Controling the government is the job of the opposition, the Bund der Steuerzahler and several hundred other lobbies, we don't need a party whose sole reason for existing is to bitch and moan without offering any alternatives (even the Linke gets things done on a small scale). Every single party is pretty good with pointing out flaws when it's not their turn so I don't see how the Piraten are any different in that regard. Involving the general public directly with party politics is also pretty backwards since the party itself wouldn't mean anything at all. That's actually what's hurting the Piraten right now, since they don't have a real profile they attract people from too many political streams and end up with no direction. How would direct influence of the people in policymaking work anyway? If we had Volksentscheide and Bürgerbegehren that actually mean anything on a federal level we wouldn't have the Euro and we would've killed ourself with austerity measures and an even bigger credit crunch during the crisis.
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May 8, 2012 21:38
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Well I'm sure you've heard the term 'liquid democracy' thrown around. Either delegate your vote to someone or vote yourself, with the ability to change the decision about who you delegate to at any time. This concept is pretty cool and it would probably be a good idea to employ it more in politics. First we will have to see, if the Piraten can adopt it internally or if they just ignore it and become a normal party. If they would really manage to adopt this liquid democracy concept long-term, it could influence the way politics are done in this country. At the moment I am pretty skeptical, though.
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May 8, 2012 23:28
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hankor posted:How would direct influence of the people in policymaking work anyway? If we had Volksentscheide and Bürgerbegehren that actually mean anything on a federal level we wouldn't have the Euro and we would've killed ourself with austerity measures and an even bigger credit crunch during the crisis. Well if you follow that logic enlighted despotism is the only real workable system of government. I guess at some point you just have to assume that citizens in a democracy are able to make rational decision if they are informed about the pros and cons of an issue via an open dialogue in the press and in statements from politicians. If you don't think citizens can make rational decisions, it would be wrong to give them the right to vote on anything, including parliamentary elections. Why would and should people be able to make a rational choice every 4-5 years but not in day to day politics? It should be noted that every Volksentscheid started by extremist parties in the Weimar Republic was defeated, as was the revision of Stuttgart 21. Besides, it need not necessary be binding Volksentscheide, even simple Volksbefragungen would be a step up. If 60%+ of the population oppose a measure, politicians would be well advised to either vote against it or at least make a decent case out of it and explain it properly. Right now it is "we have no alternatives", and that is lethal poison for a democracy.
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May 8, 2012 23:58
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elbkaida posted:Well I'm sure you've heard the term 'liquid democracy' thrown around. Either delegate your vote to someone or vote yourself, with the ability to change the decision about who you delegate to at any time. While the concept sounds cool in theory it sound really dangerous when put to use. It's not really practical since you'd have to categorize each and every decision into a system that will either be too complex to bother with or too broad to actually mean anything. Sure if I want to have the NPD as my lead in questions of immigration and the Grünen when it comes to defense everything is fine and dandy until there is an issue that touches on both, defense and immigration. Just imagine our defense and immigration policies had an impact on our finances, the job market, education, infrastructure or foreign relations, it would be a clusterfuck and I'd either have to vote myself in everything or give most of my decisions to a party like I used to do. Besides the inherent problem of actually implementing and managing the system, what about coherence? If I don't have a government that can follow a plan and that can strong arm unpopular decisions when it needs to you end up with a directionless middle of the road approach. While this would work in good times, you run into severe problems in times of crisis, a large scale problem usually doesn't have a single solutions it has myriads of small things that work together. If you don't have a strong focused approach and a government by committee instead you'll end up with a lot of great ideas that don't work together and don't solve anything. A more direct form of democracy always sounds great on paper, but is it really needed? How many people watch the Bundestagssitzungen? How many read the drafts? The reason people aren't into politics is not because they can't participate, the problem is that the subject matter is complex and oftentimes boring which leads to a perceived lack of communication. Very smart people can tell me about the need for a more decentralized energy infrastructure all day long, I simply lack the expertise to come up with a solution on my own that goes beyond "Decentralize it more", even if I read the bill that details how that could be done I'm still not an engineer and have no idea what it actually means (being an engineer wouldn't really help much either since you'd still have to take into account the estimated costs, the effect on the environment etc.) The information is out there, it's just that nobody cares and chooses to complain instead.
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May 9, 2012 00:22
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If we had Volksentscheide we would get poo poo like Minarettverbot and death penalty for child molesters.
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May 9, 2012 15:21
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hankor posted:It was pretty amazing to see someone that is even more of a prick than BvSB. Figured I might check out that video, but I'm barely 5 minutes in and it's barely bareable. (bear) You wouldn't believe how chill of a guy Stuckrad-Barre is in person though. I had never heard of him when I met him and in retrospect, I'm surprised he's able to pull of the persona he maintains. /edit: Jesus everloving gently caress, he's not even really smoking. 
Duzzy Funlop fucked around with this message at 18:35 on May 9, 2012 |
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May 9, 2012 18:28
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That " we are the nerds you never invited to parties" poo poo was so fremdscham-inducing.
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May 9, 2012 19:06
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hankor posted:If I don't have a government that can follow a plan and that can strong arm unpopular decisions when it needs to you end up with a directionless middle of the road approach. You mean some sort of consensus reached between people with different political goals? Just like we have now? I really don't think the general direction of main political decisions would change all too much, overall, and you would still have big parties dictating a majority of decisions. As you said, a lot of stuff is boring to most people and they would just delegate their vote. But to have the possibility to directly vote on stuff that really matters to you and that you know and care about would be great.
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May 9, 2012 19:20
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niethan posted:That "we are the nerds you never invited to parties" poo poo was so fremdscham-inducing. I only just got around to watching it and god drat is it bad. I suppose he wanted to make clear that they're not part of the establishment and that they value substance over appeareances and all that jazz, but defining themselves as a party of/for nerds or somesuch is exactly the wrong thing to do. It will only serve to alienate prospective members, as we could already see with their problems regarding sexism (which are mostly caused by nerds being nerds). As a matter of fact it runs contrary to what he tried to say in that it implies that it's more important to be a part of their in-group than agreeing with their positions. Perestroika fucked around with this message at 21:56 on May 9, 2012 |
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May 9, 2012 21:14
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He also literally describes their party members as standing on the margins of society. Yep, all those white middle-class nerds, so marginalized in our world, forget about the disabled, the elderly, immigrants and the poor! Bet they are invited to more parties than Lauer!
Ententod fucked around with this message at 21:38 on May 9, 2012 |
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May 9, 2012 21:36
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Seems the Salafists may have gotten more attention than was good for them after all.
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May 10, 2012 17:39
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I now seriously have no idea who to vote for in the NRW Landtag elections. Pirates seemed appealing mostly because of their stance on data protection, internet policies and so on but goddamn. Certainly not going to vote for SPD/Linke/Gruene and I'm disappointed by FDP/CDUs actions over the last years. All the far-right-wing parties aren't an option either. Welp.
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May 11, 2012 11:40
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Vote for Die PARTEI.
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May 11, 2012 11:42
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BabyFur Denny posted:Vote for Die PARTEI. They don't seem too serious but then again all this politicking is getting absurd way too quickly.
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May 11, 2012 11:45
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Looks like the exit polls suggest a big decline in the CDU's vote in North Rhine Westphalia: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/13/angela-merkel-north-rhine-westphalia?newsfeed=true
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May 13, 2012 19:38
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Aaand our chancellor has just turned from 'Mutti Merkel' to 'Mutter Gewalt'. You don't gently caress with Angie.
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May 16, 2012 19:25
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raf posted:Aaand our chancellor has just turned from 'Mutti Merkel' to 'Mutter Gewalt'. You don't gently caress with Angie. Oh, what happened? Haven't been following recent events much.
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May 18, 2012 07:20
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She kicked her minister for the environment, Norbert Röttgen, out of office for losing the elections so badly in Northrhine-Westphalia, the largest German state. In a 2 minute speech. Publicly. And in a tone that pretty much amounted to 'Thank you, Norbert, now gently caress off.' Many of the people here *still* sit there with their mouths open and wonder what the hell just happened.
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May 18, 2012 07:34
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