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Internaut! posted:wait til you crack a history book someday and discover people were successfully developing software all the way back in the 20th century before stuff like git and svn were invented lol and what's the deal with these "compilers"? like ones that are a computer program?? idgi, we have Jerry to tranlsate our fortran idk, at any rate i dont think a machine could write better machine code than a human
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May 9, 2012 14:59
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that "carpenters don't blame their tools" metaphor always seemed really silly like what if someone just handed you a stick then complained that you didn't make an entire house using that stick as your only tool
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May 9, 2012 14:59
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rotor posted:the cool thing is when someone loses a bunch of work because they accidentally delete their local repo consider it like a canary. if your idiot coworkers delete their local repo, perhaps you should gtfo
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May 9, 2012 15:07
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rotor posted:the cool thing is when someone loses a bunch of work because they accidentally delete their local repo if you or somebody you employ deletes their local repo you deserve what you get `rm` is the scrubbiest command, an admission of failure
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May 9, 2012 15:09
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Tiny Bug Child posted:notepad++ is the best of the "editors that aren't vim/emacs" category but this is like being the best tablet in the "tablets that aren't ipad" category i am vim fluent (boxes are configured with ksh with VI keys so i didnt have much of an option) but because i am an ADD scrublord, i like the block collapsing thing that np++ does, it's helping me focus on the bits of gear that need focusing on Birth Of A Coder this poo poo is a documentary and the events are happening in real time
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May 9, 2012 15:10
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BonzoESC posted:if you or somebody you employ deletes their local repo you deserve what you get I agree, git is its own punishment
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May 9, 2012 15:11
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hoisted by his own gitard
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May 9, 2012 15:12
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tef posted:lol tef posted:Your haughty condescending tone carries an arrogance that can only come from a stubborn refusal to learn from the mistakes of others. You're no worse than the zealots you decry and defame, the key difference being which side of the false dichotomy you sit: 'new' vs 'old'. this is a thing the -ists believe that developers with grad degrees in hard sciences in environments like wall street use and not because we can literally measure the impact to our profits when our trade data falls out of byte alignment in memory for example
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May 9, 2012 15:12
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rotor posted:the cool thing is when someone loses a bunch of work because they accidentally delete their local repo How that is different of someone accidentally deleting/losing their local changes because they don't want to / can't commit everything they're working on at that point in time to a remote server is a bit vague to me. I somehow doubt an additional 'push' (also 'add' if you're with git) is the main source of 'accidental loss of code'.
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May 9, 2012 15:13
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MononcQc posted:How that is different of someone accidentally deleting/losing their local changes because they don't want to / can't commit everything they're working on at that point in time to a remote server is a bit vague to me. I somehow doubt an additional 'push' (also 'add' if you're with git) is the main source of 'accidental loss of code'. because the typical git workflow has people holding onto local changes far longer than is typical with svn. if you're constantly pushing to origin in git why even bother with a local repo?
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May 9, 2012 15:17
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Jonny 290 posted:i am vim fluent (boxes are configured with ksh with VI keys so i didnt have much of an option) but because i am an ADD scrublord, i like the block collapsing thing that np++ does, it's helping me focus on the bits of gear that need focusing on vim does have folding--idk if the built in perl syntax specifies where blocks begin/end but even if it doesn't you could prob just set foldmethod=indent and be good to go. i grant that folding in vim isn't as ez as point and click on the lil plus box though
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May 9, 2012 15:20
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I mean if you want to use git because the merging is better or because of conveniences like git bisect, great. but unless you're actually connecting to the repo over some slowass link, the local repo is at best a mixed blessing
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May 9, 2012 15:20
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Internaut! posted:that developers with grad degrees in hard sciences in environments like wall street use lol are you for real
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May 9, 2012 15:22
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people just have a tendency to act like git is just better than svn, but its not, its just different and carries a different set of tradeoffs is really all I'm sayin here
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May 9, 2012 15:22
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sorry im too busy being a wall street wealth creator with a degree in the hard sciences to learn your new flavour of the month skills
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May 9, 2012 15:25
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rotor posted:because the typical git workflow has people holding onto local changes far longer than is typical with svn. if you're constantly pushing to origin in git why even bother with a local repo?
I'll give you that, though. It does make people hold onto their changesets much longer. I do prefer that to what I remember people doing with SVN and CVSNT, which was "don't commit poo poo to avoid breaking people's stuff" whenever more than one person works on the same branch. This led to far more problems than accidentally deleting repos. E: my opinion might be influenced by the fact I work from home and used SVN, mercurial and git with projects hundreds of kilometers away, and also on continents away. I hated having to store some larger file and uploading it through SVN overseas.
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May 9, 2012 15:26
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MononcQc posted:
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May 9, 2012 15:30
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rotor posted:I haven't seen a work network go down in literally over a decade, poo poo isn't 1995 anymore, so none of those 'omg teh network' arguments ship any water with me. the only convincing argument in that list is 'better merge behavior' Ever seen server crashes, power failures, maintenance outages? Networks don't always have to fail though. I mean, I've been working remotely from home (power failures, lines being cut), from trains, buses and airplanes where the connection isn't always fast (if there is a connection at all), on battery power (disable wifi for longer life, possibly), hotels without connectivity, etc. The network isn't always there, far from that. Granted if your workplace has everything sitting in a LAN and you push your code real close to where you are all the time, you won't see the effect of it. You might see it more if you have 3-4 offices with different servers handling everything. If you get out of the office, it will soon become painfully obvious how doing everything over the network is slow, error-prone, and unreliable.
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May 9, 2012 15:34
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MononcQc posted:The network isn't always there, far from that. yeah actually it is. if the network or server or power goes out with the kind of regularity that makes you plan around it, get some decent infrastructure, jesus
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May 9, 2012 15:39
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rotor posted:yeah actually it is. if the network or server or power goes out with the kind of regularity that makes you plan around it, get some decent infrastructure, jesus I'm sorry I can't plug some fiber optics from a plane to the office in another country, my bad.
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May 9, 2012 15:41
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also laughing at: invest in better infrastructure and shell out the money or lose man-days or man-weeks of work, instead of using tools that work fine otherwise and are 100% free.
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May 9, 2012 15:43
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rotor posted:yeah actually it is. if the network or server or power goes out with the kind of regularity that makes you plan around it, get some decent infrastructure, jesus git is that decent infrastructure
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May 9, 2012 15:43
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jesus loving shitchrist like I said a bojillion times, if your developers are actually widely distributed then - shockingly enough - a distributed version control system makes sense. if not, then maybe it doesn't.
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May 9, 2012 15:45
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rotor posted:jesus loving shitchrist the best answer would have been to tell me "just use git-svn or HgSubversion and leave me alone you nerd" or something.
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May 9, 2012 15:47
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Rufo posted:sorry im too busy being a wall street wealth creator with a degree in the hard sciences to learn your new flavour of the month skills thanks for the liveblog update from the "Balancing Wall Street Disdain with your Stock Options Package: An Exercise in Cognitive Dissonance" session at Bar Camp Seattle, sponsored by Barking Blumpkin Microbreweries retweeted by @AnarchoRubyist
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May 9, 2012 15:49
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MononcQc posted:also laughing at: invest in better infrastructure and shell out the money or lose man-days or man-weeks of work, instead of using tools that work fine otherwise and are 100% free. well my network keeps dying and the power keeps going out for days and the servers keep crashing. I will solve these issues by switching to git.
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May 9, 2012 15:49
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ummm, power outages and poo poo clearly fall into leave work and go to a bar category and not keep working and if you are programming on a plane or airport then lol, that is clearly time you should be at the airport bar charging poo poo to your expense account
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May 9, 2012 15:49
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rotor posted:well my network keeps dying and the power keeps going out for days and the servers keep crashing. I will solve these issues by switching to git. My GF's workplace had their server die for 1 day a week or so ago. At 15 people, that's 15 days of productivity lost on deadlines and contracts. Have that happen 2-3 times a year for various reasons (maintenance, crashes, broken hardware, whatever) and it's equivalent to paying an employee a full month to do nothing. I've had it happen at a 70 developers place for 3 days because something failed during the migration of repositories and backups needed to be obtained. Between shelling more money to build a bigger fault-tolerant machine and just using software that deals with it correctly, it's not that a hard of a choice. For remote employees, plugins for distributed source control are good enough.
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May 9, 2012 15:57
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Internaut! posted:that developers with grad degrees in hard sciences in environments like wall street use hey shaggar pay attention this is how you do it.
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May 9, 2012 16:04
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for the record I think it is fine to use new technologies like, java, xml and svn. I don't see your problem with 'modern stuff'
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May 9, 2012 16:10
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fyi my point is if you use svn/cvs you will literally bankrupt your company
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May 9, 2012 16:12
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we use svn at work and after the better part of a year i don't think it's responsible for the terrible state of the company
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May 9, 2012 16:32
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Internaut! posted:and not because we can literally measure the impact to our profits when our trade data falls out of byte alignment in memory for example  you know how advanced we are? we detected a %50+ degradation in perfur move pythonistas
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May 9, 2012 16:34
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My version control software works like this. Your version control software works like that. Git/hg are fine if you need the distributed features. However, it's not like svn is somehow garbage for olds. My 9-5 is a PBS/NPR affiliate (re: donation funded!) and we have solid enough infrastructure for svn. If the server went down, which it never has, I would just, I don't know, not commit my changes until it cam back up? Not every development team is geographically and time separated, which IMO are e best factors for choosing something like Git or hg.
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May 9, 2012 16:50
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sorry but being able to commit and then go 'oh gently caress i made a typo in this comment' and fixing it up with commit --amend (or rebase if i've made commits in between) owns
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May 9, 2012 16:54
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yaoi prophet posted:sorry but being able to commit and then go 'oh gently caress i made a typo in this comment' and fixing it up with commit --amend (or rebase if i've made commits in between) owns That isn't an attribute of distributed source control or not, though. Just a per-tool choice about how history should be handled.
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May 9, 2012 16:55
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yaoi prophet posted:sorry but being able to commit and then go 'oh gently caress i made a typo in this comment' and fixing it up with commit --amend (or rebase if i've made commits in between) owns at my last job you could edit svn commit logs after the fact. at my current one we can't, but they also apparently had just switched from visual sourcesafe like a year before i got here e: here u go http://subversion.apache.org/faq.html#change-log-msg
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May 9, 2012 16:56
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also please get a new avatar already, why do you still have that anime poo poo
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May 9, 2012 16:58
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who cares about any of this poo poo
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May 9, 2012 17:04
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nerds
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May 9, 2012 17:07
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