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The other day I went to start my 636 and it's really hard starting. It cranks and fires up, hangs at 500rpm for a bit and stalls. If I give it gas eventually it starts and will start fine when warm. The only change I've made is putting 93 octane in instead of 87 (what I normally run), so I'm thinking that could be the problem (93 being harder to combust). Idle is adjusted a little above stock and gas line isn't kinked up or anything. Valves were also done about 1000 miles ago and this started happening after taking a day trip (360 miles) and adjusting the cam chain tensioner in. Any ideas? I love Kawiforums, every "hard starting" thread gets the same answers. "It's a kawi thing, just give it a little gas on startup."
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May 12, 2012 16:24
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 21:43 |
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It's not abnormal for a bike to need a slight crack of throttle to start smoothly, but if you regularly ride it and the difference was night/day between fillups (meaning it can't be clogged carbs or poor battery due to sitting for a while) I'd run it empty, fill up with 87 and see if it's better again. Premium gas refers to the increased profit margin, not increased performance.
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May 12, 2012 16:30
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Hard starting assuming you have a decently charged battery makes me think about the valves needing an adjustment. Edit: I can't imagine a 636 is designed to take 87
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May 12, 2012 16:34
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Gnaghi posted:The other day I went to start my 636 and it's really hard starting. It cranks and fires up, hangs at 500rpm for a bit and stalls. If I give it gas eventually it starts and will start fine when warm. The only change I've made is putting 93 octane in instead of 87 (what I normally run), so I'm thinking that could be the problem (93 being harder to combust). Idle is adjusted a little above stock and gas line isn't kinked up or anything. Valves were also done about 1000 miles ago and this started happening after taking a day trip (360 miles) and adjusting the cam chain tensioner in. Any ideas? Your CCT is too tight...it can cause hard starting problems due to the additional drag in the system (as well as cause your cam chain to stretch prematurely) and if you just adjusted the cct and then this problem started, that's always a good place to start.
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May 12, 2012 16:40
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Edit:^^^Ok, I'll check that out. I actually only tightened it cause the last guy who looked at the bike thought the tick was a loving rod knock. Easier to make it quiet than try to educate someone. I just did the valves and a lot of guys run regular in 636s, even at the track with no problems. The difference was pretty substantial Ola, after the valves were done, it would start in an instant, hot or cold. God I hope I haven't gotten my ninja to the point were it needs valve shims every 1000 miles. 
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May 12, 2012 16:44
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n8r posted:Edit: I can't imagine a 636 is designed to take 87 It's designed for 95RON, 86MON or 91AKI. So if we're talking MON it's indeed designed for 87 octane.
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May 12, 2012 16:46
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US pumps are always labeled for AKI [(R+M)/2].
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May 12, 2012 17:07
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Looks like a quick google says you should be running 91 at minimum. I don't think this is the problem though. The obvious answer is the battery is not 100% anymore.
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May 12, 2012 18:29
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The battery is brand new too! I replaced it over the winter. At this rate it should be a brand new bike in 2 years. As for gas I don't mind running 91 or 93, just have heard a lot of "you should run the minimum octane that doesn't ping". Come to think of it I don't even know what a "ping" is supposed to sound like, prob should check that out too.
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May 12, 2012 18:55
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Gnaghi posted:The battery is brand new too! I replaced it over the winter. At this rate it should be a brand new bike in 2 years. Get a tin can and put a handful of marbles in it, then throw that down some stairs. That's what pinging sounds like. I generally experience pinging when I open the throttle really quickly at low RPMs. The air/fuel mixture goes lean and the fuel detonates too early. My KLR650 pings like mad using 87 octane fuel, much much less using 93 octane.
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May 12, 2012 20:53
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Safety Dance posted:The air/fuel mixture goes lean and the fuel detonates too early. The fuel isn't supposed to detonate at all, which is the problem. Pinging/detonation happens after spark, the flame front is expanding raising the temperature and pressure in the unburned mixture, when the remaining mixture self-ignites. This causes a very rapid rise in cylinder pressure, possibly before the piston makes it to TDC.
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May 12, 2012 21:13
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Gnaghi posted:As for gas I don't mind running 91 or 93, just have heard a lot of "you should run the minimum octane that doesn't ping". Come to think of it I don't even know what a "ping" is supposed to sound like, prob should check that out too. Listen between 3 and 5 seconds into this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Due7mkTHMlw If your engine sounds like that under load, it's pinging. The best way to induce it is to pin the throttle at relatively low revs while going uphill.
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May 12, 2012 21:43
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Yeah I haven't heard anything like that and I've idled through towns in 6th. Loosened the cam chain tensioner a bit, bike is back to sewing machine territory but started right up fine. Thanks Z3n.  Gonna recheck it tomorrow since it's only been cooling down for four hours or so but I hope that's it. I am getting drat tired of contorting a wrench in there.
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May 12, 2012 22:36
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Good call Z3n!
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May 13, 2012 01:48
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Ola posted:Good call Z3n! Only know because I've done it myself. 
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May 13, 2012 03:59
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Virago 250 fueling question: I just cleaned the poo poo out of a Virago 250 carb. Great improvement, it now starts easy and runs like a completely different (better) machine. It's still idling a little rough, and after a short ride around the block, the idle remains pretty high. Turning down the idle screw fixes it, but then it idles too low the next time it starts. It's not a simple not-warm enough/choke on/off issue, since I can warm it up thoroughly, set the idle, drive it around the block, and it'll be idling high again. Not a sticky throttle cable, I checked that, and even manually pushed the throttle closed at the carb. No effect. I played with the mixture screw, but it seems to have little or no effect. The idle gets slow and rough when the screw is all the way in to its stop, but at 1/8 turn it returns to the previous behavior. I have to open it about 12 turns to get any other change in idle, so I've set it at about 6 turns at the moment. Any ideas? Edit: The bike's owner just said there's 1/2 a can of seafoam in the tank. I'm guessing that's causing it to run rich, and there's my problem. Sound right? I've never run a seafoamed tank myself, not sure how the engine should react.
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May 13, 2012 14:59
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Set the screw according to factory settings (should be googlable information) and ride the tank empty. After a long ride with the engine at full operating temp, set the idle to spec. If erratic idle continues, you probably have an air leak somewhere downstream of the carb. Shouldn't be too hard to find it, I guess the Virago 250 has a fairly simple setup.
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May 13, 2012 15:31
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Mr. Eric Praline posted:Virago 250 fueling question: Ride the piss out of it if you're doing a seafoam treatment. You want to see smoke coming out of the tailpipe (Seafoam helps to loosen/remove carbon deposits inside the engine).
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May 13, 2012 15:45
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Mr. Eric Praline posted:Virago 250 fueling question: First, pilot screws are not used to adjust idle. Secondly, if you get no reaction by turning your pilot screws from zero to almost out, you definitely didn't clean your carburetors enough or you have massive vacuum leaks.
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May 13, 2012 15:54
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niethan posted:Update: this is the sound it makes when I press the starter button... Update: new battery fixed it.
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May 13, 2012 19:15
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Ok. I'm getting annoyed. I cannot get my handguards off. I didn't install them, but I believe I understand how they're attached. It seems like the expanders inside the bars are just spinning along. How do I stop them?
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May 13, 2012 21:36
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orthod0ks posted:Ok. I'm getting annoyed. I cannot get my handguards off. I didn't install them, but I believe I understand how they're attached. It seems like the expanders inside the bars are just spinning along. How do I stop them? What brand are the handguards?
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May 13, 2012 23:13
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I'm working on a 1982 suzuki gs650e. I have installed some new bars and just put all the old controls on them. I have some bar end mirrors that expand inside the bars and on the throttle side it's blocked by the end of the throttle tube. Will it be ok to just drill or cut the plastic end of the throttle tube to put the other mirror on?VVVVVThanksVVVV
kenny powerzzz fucked around with this message at 06:15 on May 14, 2012 |
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May 14, 2012 03:22
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kenny powerzzz posted:I'm working on a 1982 suzuki gs650e. I have installed some new bars and just put all the old controls on them. I have some bar end mirrors that expand inside the bars and on the throttle side it's blocked by the end of the throttle tube. Will it be ok to just drill or cut the plastic end of the throttle tube to put the other mirror on? Yes.
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May 14, 2012 06:10
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Z3n posted:What brand are the handguards? Nevermind, I figured it out. They're KTM. Basically just had to unscrew them from the bar, then unscrew the end bolts for a (long) while and muscle them off. Now my sensitive programmer's hands won't get so sore while riding. Also, my left grip came loose while I was putting on the grip puppy. I didn't notice until I put the guards back on. I was thinking of using some hairspray at either end of the grip to glue it back down. Good idea/bad idea? Something better I should use?
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May 14, 2012 14:11
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orthod0ks posted:I was thinking of using some hairspray at either end of the grip to glue it back down. Good idea/bad idea? Something better I should use? I think there is a glue meant for that, I just use safety wire.
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May 14, 2012 14:13
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Zool posted:I think there is a glue meant for that, I just use safety wire. How does that even work?
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May 14, 2012 20:08
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Wrap, twist, tuck. He's making a friction fit instead of an adhesive one.
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May 14, 2012 20:10
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I prefer a combination of grip glue and safety wire.
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May 14, 2012 21:56
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I just dribble a little adhesive out of my favorite vase. Seems to hold em on pretty well.
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May 14, 2012 22:08
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orthod0ks posted:Also, my left grip came loose while I was putting on the grip puppy. I didn't notice until I put the guards back on. I was thinking of using some hairspray at either end of the grip to glue it back down. Good idea/bad idea? Something better I should use? That's what I did on my Bonneville. Seems to work ok.
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May 14, 2012 22:38
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My KLR 650's brakes suck. That's no surprise. But I think they suck worse than normal. I'm able to gradually add braking force up to what I would consider to be 25% -- good for stopping at a traffic light or something. Then the lever hits a "wall", and I'm stuck adding force until it suddenly "pops" and I get about 70% braking force. Another "wall," and then I suddenly hit 90%. This indicates I need to take the caliper apart and grease something, yes? Any specific grease I should use? Additionally, are there speed bleeders for bikes? It's probably about that time.
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May 14, 2012 23:08
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Yes, indeed, there are SpeedBleeders for bikes. I just ordered a set for my two SV's.
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May 15, 2012 00:53
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After changing the pads on my front brakes, I noticed they're dragging what seems quite a bit to me. On the stand, with a hard shove, the wheel gets maybe 3/4 of the way around. I cleaned the calipers and pistons while changing the pads to the point that they look pretty clean. I did notice that the pins were nasty -- pretty rusty, don't move well. Could that be it? Maybe clean the rust up and use some brake caliper lube on them? Would it be safe to use a dremel to get at the rust? Any wheel recommendations? The other possibility is that I just had a shop replace the tires, and, because I'm brain damaged, I didn't check the wheel spin on a front stand until after I'd replaced the pads, so it's not impossible the shop did something wrong. Or maybe 3/4 spin is normal with brand-new pads that haven't been ridden yet? Seems weird, though.
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May 15, 2012 04:14
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frunksock posted:I did notice that the pins were nasty -- pretty rusty, don't move well. Could that be it? Yep.
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May 15, 2012 04:19
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kenny powerzzz posted:I'm working on a 1982 suzuki gs650e. I have installed some new bars and just put all the old controls on them. I have some bar end mirrors that expand inside the bars and on the throttle side it's blocked by the end of the throttle tube. Will it be ok to just drill or cut the plastic end of the throttle tube to put the other mirror on?VVVVVThanksVVVV You could also put a bunch of washers around the bolt that goes in the expansion nuts. It would act like a spacer in a sense. That's what I've always done for the bar mirrors I've had.
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May 15, 2012 04:22
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frunksock posted:Or maybe 3/4 spin is normal with brand-new pads that haven't been ridden yet? I wouldn't imagine that to be true for any kind of wheel anywhere.
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May 15, 2012 04:30
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front wing flexing posted:You could also put a bunch of washers around the bolt that goes in the expansion nuts. It would act like a spacer in a sense. That's what I've always done for the bar mirrors I've had.
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May 15, 2012 05:40
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Safety Dance posted:My KLR 650's brakes suck.
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May 15, 2012 05:55
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Sagebrush posted:I wouldn't imagine that to be true for any kind of wheel anywhere.
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May 15, 2012 15:34
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