p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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multigl: Nov 22, 2005; "Who's cool and has two thumbs? This guy!"

rotor posted:

RoR is a great prototyping environment, and there's easy (relatively easy) paths to porting it to something more performant.

So the idea that you just want to get your poo poo up and functional asap and gently caress scaling until it actually becomes an issue is a perfectly reasonable choice in some circumstances.

no rotor, I need to handle 1,000,000 hits a day by the third week. This will be a billion dollar a year business in two years.*

*thing I heard from a potential client before laughing so hard I had to actually walk away

# ? May 13, 2012 22:39

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# ? May 9, 2024 17:12

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

but did u get stock shares

# ? May 13, 2012 22:40

multigl: Nov 22, 2005; "Who's cool and has two thumbs? This guy!"

Gazpacho posted:

but did u get stock shares

if they ever sell I'll probably get a lawyer and sue on spec

# ? May 13, 2012 22:46

penus de milo: Mar 9, 2002; CHAR CHAR

trex eaterofcadrs posted:

hand on mouse? not programming.

agreed, what kind of idiot isn't using a magic trackpad by now

# ? May 13, 2012 22:55

skeevy achievements: Feb 25, 2008; by merry exmarx

BonzoESC posted:

even idiot idea people with money have heard of "ruby on rails," and they don't care about the details

ah I thought this was something you would use instead of rails

looks like the ror architecture has changed totally since the last time I looked at it when you had to have packs of mongrels doing whatever the gently caress to make it work

# ? May 14, 2012 01:52

jony neuemonic: Nov 13, 2009

Internaut! posted:

looks like the ror architecture has changed totally since the last time I looked at it when you had to have packs of mongrels doing whatever the gently caress to make it work

i'm pretty sure it still needs programmers

# ? May 14, 2012 02:03

trex eaterofcadrs: Jun 17, 2005; My lack of understanding is only exceeded by my lack of concern.

fidel sarcastro posted:

i'm pretty sure it still needs programmers

two drums and a cymbal fall off a cliff

# ? May 14, 2012 02:05

jony neuemonic: Nov 13, 2009

# ? May 14, 2012 02:07

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

Internaut! posted:

ah I thought this was something you would use instead of rails

looks like the ror architecture has changed totally since the last time I looked at it when you had to have packs of mongrels doing whatever the gently caress to make it work

yeah instead you have master unicorns and slave unicorns

# ? May 14, 2012 04:48

Opinion Haver: Apr 9, 2007

http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Status/May12 posted:

Here are the projects we're currently working on:

Deferred type errors. Etienne Laurin suggested [16] that GHC could compile and run a program even though it contains type errors. After all, the bit you want to run might not contain the error, and it's sometimes annoying to have to fix every type error before you can run any code. It turned out that there was a beautifully simple way to fit this idea into GHC's new constraint-based type inference engine, and we have now done so. It's all explained in "Equality proofs and deferred type errors" [17], and will be in GHC 7.6.

Holes in terms. Thijs Alkemade and Sean Leather have been working on another variant of deferred error messages, that would allow you to write a program that contains as-yet-unwritten sub-terms, or "holes" and have GHC report a fairly precise type for the hole. The idea is inspired by Agda's interactive programming environment, which has a facility of this kind. The more complicated the types get, the more useful this is! Details on their wiki page [18].

hell loving yes

# ? May 14, 2012 05:33

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

trex eaterofcadrs posted:

two drums and a cymbal fall off a cliff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eXj97stbG8&t=25s

tef fucked around with this message at 10:41 on May 14, 2012

# ? May 14, 2012 10:16

jooky: Jan 15, 2003

tef posted:

[videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eXj97stbG8#t=25s[/video]

dont worry i saw it

# ? May 14, 2012 10:50

skeevy achievements: Feb 25, 2008; by merry exmarx

yaoi prophet posted:

hell loving yes

idgi

who are these people writing haskell code that's somehow so full of type errors it's desirable to turn off type checking

why aren't they writing php or w/e

# ? May 14, 2012 14:03

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Internaut! posted:

who are these people writing haskell code that's somehow so full of type errors it's desirable to turn off type checking

the linked paper outlined the rationale, or do you want all this information spoon fed to you

# ? May 14, 2012 14:13

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

and it isn't turning off type checking :confused:

, it's deferring type errors to runtime

they cite something for java, DuctileJ, which they say goes over the rationale in more detail

http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/mernst/pubs/ductile-icse2011.pdf

quote:

Developers who write code in a statically typed language are denied the ability to obtain dynamic feedback by executing their code during periods when it fails the static type checker. They are further confined to the static typing discipline during times in the development process where it does not yield the highest productivity. If they opt instead to use a dynamic language, they forgo the many benefits of static typing, including machine-checked documentation, improved correctness and reliability, tool support (such as for refactoring), and better runtime performance.
We present a novel approach to giving developers the benefits of both static and dynamic typing, throughout the development process, and without the burden of manually separating their program into statically- and dynamically-typed parts. Our approach, which is intended for tem- porary use during the development process, relaxes the static type system and provides a semantics for many type-incorrect programs. It defers type errors to run time, or suppresses them if they do not affect runtime semantics.
We implemented our approach in a publicly available tool, DuctileJ, for the Java language. In case studies, DuctileJ conferred benefits both during prototyping and during the evolution of existing code.

kids today, can't even read the abstract let alone the title of a paper.

# ? May 14, 2012 14:16

0xB16B00B5: Aug 24, 2006; by Y Kant Ozma Post

if i wanted to read a massive amount of wordy bullshit i would code in objective c

# ? May 14, 2012 14:46

skeevy achievements: Feb 25, 2008; by merry exmarx

tef posted:

the linked paper outlined the rationale, or do you want all this information spoon fed to you

yeah I read the explanation but I don't buy it, it sounds like rationalization

like if you figured out a way to uhhhhhhh say defeat STL runtime type checking it might be a cool trick that's useful in some project and you could write a paper espousing the benefits and offering suggestions as to when it would be useful

but that doesn't mean it's a good idea in general

# ? May 14, 2012 15:02

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

If static typing is such a huge burden to you that you're willing to break your compiler to remove it then maybe php is more your speed.

# ? May 14, 2012 15:21

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

multigl posted:

no rotor, I need to handle 1,000,000 hits a day by the third week. This will be a billion dollar a year business in two years.*

*thing I heard from a potential client before laughing so hard I had to actually walk away

and that client ... grew up to be Mark Zuckerberg!!

# ? May 14, 2012 15:26

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Internaut! posted:

but that doesn't mean it's a good idea in general

It's the bit that transforms a type error into a runtime exception. It isn't breaking the type system or circumventing the type system. The code is still type safe. :confused:

Shaggar posted:

If static typing is such a huge burden to you that you're willing to break your compiler to remove it then maybe php is more your speed.

If you used a real language with a real type system you'd understand.

# ? May 14, 2012 15:40

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Internaut! posted:

yeah I read the explanation but I don't buy it, it sounds like rationalization

like if you figured out a way to uhhhhhhh say defeat STL runtime type checking it might be a cool trick that's useful in some project and you could write a paper espousing the benefits and offering suggestions as to when it would be useful

but that doesn't mean it's a good idea in general

it's not defeating the type checking, it's just deferring the type errors to runtime.

imagine you had a c++ compiler which would take the following procedure:

code:

void Broken() {
  int a = 1;
  string b = "2" + a;
}

and when the type-checking failed, instead of emitting a compile-time error, it would emit a warning, and replace the generated assembly with the equivalent of:

code:

void Broken() {
  int a = 1;
  throw TypeError("no match for operator+(const char *, int) ...");
}

It's still compile-time static type checking.

# ? May 14, 2012 15:43

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

a nice try, but shaggar one and shaggar two didn't pick it up from the earlier examples

# ? May 14, 2012 15:45

Sweevo: Nov 8, 2007; i sometimes throw cables away

i mean straight into the bin without spending 10+ years in the box of might-come-in-handy-someday first

im a fucking monster

tef posted:

kids today, can't even read the abstract let alone the title of a paper.

wanky academic papers: the only thing haskell programmers will ever write

# ? May 14, 2012 15:45

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

static typing is like bumper bowling

# ? May 14, 2012 15:47

skeevy achievements: Feb 25, 2008; by merry exmarx

eh I understand how it works, to me a compiler that doesn't catch type errors in a statically typed language is broken but w/e

janin would you ever use this and why

# ? May 14, 2012 15:52

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Tiny Bug Child posted:

static typing is like bumper bowling

it's more like bowling where everything but a strike is a foul

# ? May 14, 2012 15:52

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

Internaut! posted:

eh I understand how it works, to me a compiler that doesn't catch type errors

oh cool is that what we're talking about? that doesn't seem to be, but you're being a pretty disingenuous poo poo so idk

# ? May 14, 2012 15:55

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Internaut! posted:

eh I understand how it works, to me a compiler that doesn't catch type errors in a statically typed language is broken but w/e

java does this, in the sense that it misses type errors (you can google these type holes, hth)

next you'll be saying that a compiler should reject code that doesn't pass tests.

# ? May 14, 2012 15:55

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

JawnV6 posted:

oh cool is that what we're talking about? that doesn't seem to be, but you're being a pretty disingenuous poo poo so idk

shaggar is much better at the gimmick than he is

# ? May 14, 2012 15:56

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

tef posted:

If you used a real language with a real type system you'd understand.

I do. That's why I never have issues with static typing. Deferring type errors to runtime makes no sense whatsoever and is a useless hack for bad programers in a bad language.

# ? May 14, 2012 15:59

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

Shaggar posted:

I do. That's why I never have issues with static typing. Deferring type errors to runtime makes no sense whatsoever and is a useless hack for bad programers in a bad language.

spoken like someone who believes in the big lie of "types"

# ? May 14, 2012 16:01

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

holy poo poo holy poo poo they found a point of contention they're pointed at each other omg omg

# ? May 14, 2012 16:03

blorpy: Jan 5, 2005

just ban both lovely trolls

# ? May 14, 2012 16:27

CaptainMeatpants: Jun 1, 2010

yospos thunderdome

# ? May 14, 2012 16:29

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Internaut! posted:

eh I understand how it works, to me a compiler that doesn't catch type errors in a statically typed language is broken but w/e

janin would you ever use this and why

it sounds really useful for IDEs. they could provide more useful code completion and analysis of partially-implemented functions and modules.

# ? May 14, 2012 16:35

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

Markov Chain Chomp posted:

just ban both lovely trolls

# ? May 14, 2012 16:37

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Janin posted:

it sounds really useful for IDEs. they could provide more useful code completion and analysis of partially-implemented functions and modules.

Not really.

# ? May 14, 2012 16:45

TOO SCSI FOR MY CAT: Oct 12, 2008; this is what happens when you take UI design away from engineers and give it to a bunch of hipster art student "designers"

Markov Chain Chomp posted:

just ban both lovely trolls

# ? May 14, 2012 16:47

vapid cutlery

Apr 17, 2007

php:

<?
"it's george costanza" ?>

fill my dirty typehole

# ? May 14, 2012 16:48

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# ? May 9, 2024 17:12

blorpy: Jan 5, 2005

i'm amazed that yospos wunderkind have figured out how to handle sulk but still cant figure out the proper course of action with shaggar and tbc

# ? May 14, 2012 16:48

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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