The Prison Thread

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Prison Thread

Gunshow Poophole: Sep 14, 2008; OMBUDSMAN
POSTERS LOCAL 42069; Clapping Larry

Calenth posted:

This may be of interest to some -- what may turn out to be an important prisoners'-rights trial just finished up in South Carolina.

Plaintiff's website here: http://www.mentalhealth4inmates.org/ Waiting on ruling, which will be appealed regardless of who wins, I'm sure.

I am kind of surprised I didn't know about this (not really) but I might pass this along to my bloggin' friends here in Columbia to see if they've paid any attention.

Thanks!

# ? Mar 28, 2012 23:31

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# ? May 28, 2024 05:19

Shimrra Jamaane: Aug 10, 2007; Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

I think the LF site may be down. I haven't been able to access it for a while.

# ? Apr 29, 2012 16:10

Selavi: Jan 1, 2010

Yeah, does anyone have any backup of the site?

# ? Apr 29, 2012 18:47

AmbassadorFriendly: Nov 19, 2008; Don't leave me hangin'

Does anyone still have the link to that blog run by the death row inmate? I lost the link and I would like to get it back.

# ? Apr 29, 2012 21:32

ugh its Troika: May 2, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2012/05/17/justice_prisons_to_step_up_anti_rape_efforts/

Well, something is being looked at, at least. Whether it actually goes anywhere remains to be seen.

# ? May 17, 2012 20:13

VideoTapir: Oct 18, 2005; He'll tire eventually.

Comments. Jesus gently caress the comments.

# ? May 18, 2012 03:19

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

VideoTapir posted:

Comments. Jesus gently caress the comments.

Yes. Spectacular.

# ? May 18, 2012 03:31

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

VideoTapir posted:

Comments. Jesus gently caress the comments.

Just the names for Obama!

King Odumba the Dog Eater
Oblamer
nerobama
Nomobama
the Kenyan

# ? May 18, 2012 03:33

Goatman Sacks: Apr 4, 2011; by FactsAreUseless

VideoTapir posted:

Comments. Jesus gently caress the comments.

It was linked by drudge. Anything he links shoots up a giant white supremacist signal into the foggy skies

# ? May 18, 2012 03:40

KingEup: Nov 18, 2004; I am a REAL ADDICT
(to threadshitting)

Please ask me for my google inspired wisdom on shit I know nothing about. Actually, you don't even have to ask.

quote:

�Louisiana is the world�s prison capital. The state imprisons more of its people, per head, than any of its U.S. counterparts. First among Americans means first in the world. Louisiana�s incarceration rate is nearly triple Iran�s, seven times China�s and 10 times Germany�s.�

That paragraph opens a devastating eight-part series published this month by The Times-Picayune of New Orleans about how the state�s largely private prison system profits from high incarceration rates and tough sentencing, and how many with the power to curtail the system actually have a financial incentive to perpetuate it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/26/opinion/blow-plantations-prisons-and-profits.html?_r=1&smid=tw-share

Pulitzer winning stuff: http://www.nola.com/prisons/

The only other place that I can find to even come close is the Northern Part of Australia where the incarceration rate is 762 per 100,000: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mediareleasesbytitle/1F2BD14CF87EE4AFCA25751B001AC5FA?OpenDocument

Australia jails blacks in the Northern Territory at a rate of 1,868 per 100,000

KingEup fucked around with this message at 00:39 on May 27, 2012

# ? May 27, 2012 00:28

CalvinandHobbes: Aug 5, 2004

VideoTapir posted:

Comments. Jesus gently caress the comments.

did they block the comments? i can't see any although i have not doubt they were vile.

# ? May 27, 2012 19:54

duck monster: Dec 15, 2004

Tias posted:

Took some time off reading this thread, got back in, immediately got sick to the heart. Seriously, we've reached the point where even releasing all prisoners, them killing everyone else, and re-evolving into a humane society probably wouldn't be bad odds at reform

We tried this plan here in australia! Didn't work

# ? May 28, 2012 01:56

duck monster: Dec 15, 2004

Strudel Man posted:

Just the names for Obama!

King Odumba the Dog Eater
Oblamer
nerobama
Nomobama
the Kenyan

Dog eater?

Uh.... Is this a "black people eat pets" thing?

e: Oh. Google tells me that in one of his books he relates that apparently as a child in indonesia he discvered a meal he was eating had some dog in it. Why would someone bring that up? I mean........ yeah, 1970s. Indonesia. Child. Relevant how?

e2: Ok, gently caress both houses here. Apparently the Obama and Romney team have been arguing over who's more awesome dog bros. Stick to the loving issues please president + wannabe president type people. DEMOCRACY IN ACTION :toot:

duck monster fucked around with this message at 02:05 on May 28, 2012

# ? May 28, 2012 01:58

TACD: Oct 27, 2000

Hope nobody minds if I put an article about some prisons outside the US here:

quote:

In this May 3, 2012 photo, inmates gather outside their cells in San Pedro Sula Central Corrections Facility in San Pedro Sula, Honduras. Inside one of Honduras' most dangerous and overcrowded prisons, inmates operate a free-market bazaar, selling everything from iPhones to prostitutes. Guards do not cross into the inner sanctum controlled by prisoners, and prisoners do not breach the perimeter controlled by guards. (AP Photo/Rodrigo Abd)
SAN PEDRO SULA, Honduras (AP) - Inside one of Honduras' most dangerous and overcrowded prisons, inmates operate a free-market bazaar, selling everything from iPhones to prostitutes.

It's more like a fenced-in town than a conventional prison, where raccoons, chickens and pigs wander freely among food stalls and in troughs of open sewage. But guards do not dare cross the painted, yellow "linea de la muerte" (line of death) into the inner sanctum run by prisoners, and prisoners do not breach the perimeter controlled by guards.

"The prisoners rule," assistant prison director Carlos Polanco told The Associated Press. "We only handle external security. They know if they cross the line, we can shoot."

The unofficial division of power at the San Pedro Sula Central Corrections Facility is mimicked throughout the country, where a Lord-of-the-Flies system allows inmates to run a business behind bars, while officials turn a blind eye in exchange for a cut of the profits they say is spent on prison needs.

This culture virtually guarantees that even in the glare of international scrutiny over a fire that killed 361 prisoners at another Honduran prison three months ago, little stands to change.

Just one month after the fire at Comayagua prison, convicts at San Pedro Sula turned on their leader, killing 14 people and taking over the prison for three weeks before officials could get inside. Less than two weeks ago another inmate was killed and 11 wounded in a brawl.

The AP this month toured the prison in San Pedro Sula, where 2,137 inmates live in a space built for 800. Journalists gained access not through the prison director but with permission from the head inmate, Noe Betancourt, who provided a team of eight prisoners as security. No guards went inside the bustling, autonomous town, where women and children mill about the stalls selling Coca-Cola, fruit, T-shirts, hammocks, shoes and rugs. Some 30 people enter from outside every day to work the market.

The guards typically keep to an area between two sets of locked doors. The first set is locked against entry to the outside world. Between those doors, and the doors to prison cells, lies the yellow line. Prisoners keep to their side of it so religiously that the doors to the indoor market and the cells are unlocked during the day.

At night, guards do venture in to lock the cells, inmate Betancourt said, but inmates have keys and crowbars, because in case of fire, "the police would run away and leave us in here."

A thickset middle-aged man who gave his prison tour accompanied by his girlfriend, Betancourt is responsible for taking charge of new inmates and explaining the fees, which include cell space.

Prices range from 1,000 lempiras ($50) for the worst cells to 15,000 lempiras ($750) for cleaner, more secure living space. Inmates who can't afford to pay anything sleep on the floors and get the worst jobs, such as cleaning.

Betancourt was "elected" to his post by his fellow inmates last month after his predecessor made the mistake of sharply raising fees.

The boss, Mario Enriquez, was widely hated for abusing prisoners, beating deadbeats or hanging others from the ceiling overnight, dogs biting at their toes. But after he hiked the costs of cells, food and other privileges, enraged inmates attacked him. They cut off his head, cut out his organs and fed his heart to his dog. Then they killed the dog, according to inmates whose account was confirmed by authorities.

Thirteen of the leader's band were murdered too, their bodies buried under mattresses and set afire.

After the killings, inmates continued to control the prison for three weeks, not allowing officials or firefighters in to investigate the blaze, according to San Pedro Sula prosecutor John Mejia. The dead bodies were handed over to the prison guards.

As in the case of the Comayagua prison fire, no charges have been filed in those deaths. At Comayagua, the prison director was dismissed, but the guards who fled and left men to burn in their cells that night were reassigned to other prisons, said Danny Rodriguez, the prison's new director.

Rodrigo Escobar Bil, an investigator with the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, said the country's prisoners deserve better.

"It's likely that something grave will happen in the future in Honduras' prisons, given that the situation hasn't changed from what existed three months ago," he said after touring a prison last month.

The U.N.'s Honduras Subcommittee Against Torture reported in 2010 that corruption pervades the entire system, from prison staff to outsiders, ensuring "a silence ... a guarantee of impunity."

The prison is heavily overcrowded, with bunks bunched up side by side in large cells. Throughout the tour, prisoners could be seen visiting with their wives and playing with their children.

Prison clerks wearing blue jackets, never stopped moving, carrying packages of food, tobacco or money sent from family members. In one corner, a band with an electric guitar practiced while in another a group watched Real Madrid play soccer on TV.

Everything costs.

Starting at about 75 lempiras($3.50) a week, inmates can pay to have their floors cleaned or air conditioning repaired. They can buy beer at three times the street price, drugs and a night with a woman.

The profits are distributed among the workers, stall owners, and the prison administration, Polanco said.

The administration cut is 120,000 lempiras ($6,000) a month, which pays for maintenance, gas to transport prisoners to court or the hospital and to serve better food, said Hugo Hernandez, San Pedro Sula prison administrator.

"The state gives us 13 lempiras per inmate (about 60 cents) a day for food. With that money they would starve, so I have to find a way to cover the rest," he said.

Prison officials openly acknowledge their complicity with prisoners as a fact of life in a country that spends roughly $250 per year on each of 12,000 inmates crowded into a system built for 8,000.

"For some it's corruption," Polanco said, "but for us it's the only way to keep the system from breaking apart."

Inmate Jorge Gutierrez runs a restaurant with specially designed, laminated menus featuring double hamburgers, pupusas and other popular dishes. He pays 480 lempiras ($25) a month to the prison administration to run his business, employs two fellow prisoners as waiters and said he still makes enough to support his family on the outside.

Gutierrez said when he is freed, he can rent or sell his business to another prisoner.

"No way would I want to be transferred to a new prison," he said. "I would lose my privileges."

The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights said the Honduran government has all but abandoned its penitentiary system. The report drew similar conclusions as that which followed a 2004 fire in the same prison that killed 107 inmates: a tinderbox of overcrowding, overloaded electrical systems and a lack of trained personnel to respond in a crisis.

"Honduras is a country with few resources," said Honduran Security Minister Pompeyo Bonilla. "We've asked the International Monetary Fund to be more flexible with its criteria for issuing new debt so we can deal with our prison problem."

At Comayagua, the fire spread quickly, fueled by clothing, bedding, cooking oil and other belongings of prisoners in rows of bunks only inches apart.

The same conditions exist in San Pedro Sula, where the human rights commission also condemned as deplorable its lack of hygiene and adequate food and potable water.

Fernando Ceguera, a prisoner who maintains the electrical system, showed 12 overloaded transformers that leak oil and spark whenever it rains. "They could explode at any minute," he said.

Assistant Security Secretary Marcela Castaneda recently said in Washington that Honduras plans to build at least two new penitentiaries, noting that some facility are far more overpopulated than San Pedro Sula, one as much as 235 percent.

But the plans lack financing. San Pedro Sula has had a committee to build a new prison for 10 years and is still waiting for the state to give it property to build on.

Prison boss Betancourt, meanwhile, said he is already working on a design and getting price quotes to build new cells in the current facility, adding a second story above its chapel and dining room.

"Working ourselves with $10,000," said Betancourt, "we can build the capacity of the prison by 500 inmates."

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268743/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=PMcg4b5J

American prisons: not so bad after all? :psyduck:

# ? May 28, 2012 08:44

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Compared to a third-world shithole like Honduras? Really?

# ? May 28, 2012 08:56

Loomer: Dec 19, 2007; A Very Special Hell

Yes, American prisons are probably better than those in third world nations. That changes nothing.

# ? May 28, 2012 10:43

Syllables: Jul 2, 2011; XOF XOF XOF

TACD posted:

Hope nobody minds if I put an article about some prisons outside the US here:

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268743/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=PMcg4b5J

American prisons: not so bad after all?

Yes The American prisons are better than 3rd world country's. That's nothing to brag about. Even more so seeing that it's Honduras, a country that's currently having drug violence problems.

# ? May 28, 2012 10:55

Pope Guilty: Nov 6, 2006; The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

The fact that being better than Honduras is considered an accomplishment is emblematic of American decline. It's like people just revel in the shittiness.

# ? May 28, 2012 11:28

ToxicSlurpee: Nov 5, 2003; -=SEND HELP=-; Pillbug

What next? "Well, American prisons suck, but at least the prisoners don't get attacked by rabid coyotes every day. See, could be worse!"

# ? May 28, 2012 11:33

Pope Guilty: Nov 6, 2006; The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

ToxicSlurpee posted:

What next? "Well, American prisons suck, but at least the prisoners don't get attacked by rabid coyotes every day. See, could be worse!"

I'd be shocked if these exact words haven't come out of Joe Arpaio's mouth.

# ? May 28, 2012 12:11

VideoTapir: Oct 18, 2005; He'll tire eventually.

They only have one fifth the US's incarceration rate.

If enough backlash happens to slow down the prison industry in the US, I see a bright future overseas for our prison companies. Sure, places like Honduras don't have money to pay for private prisons. But they don't have money to pay for weapons, either, and see how well that works out around the world.

# ? May 28, 2012 12:35

duck monster: Dec 15, 2004

Pope Guilty posted:

I'd be shocked if these exact words haven't come out of Joe Arpaio's mouth.

.... as a possible idea for his next tv stunt. pink underwear and coyote attacks

# ? May 28, 2012 12:44

ToxicSlurpee: Nov 5, 2003; -=SEND HELP=-; Pillbug

Well, if they didn't want to get torn apart by rabid coyotes they shouldn't have done those things that poor people do when they get desperate. :smug:

# ? May 28, 2012 13:08

Assepoester: Jul 18, 2004; Can't post for 10 years!; Melman v2

http://tigerbeatdown.com/2012/05/28/retribution-or-chang-the-progressive-support-for-the-prison-industrial-complex/

quote:

Retribution or Change? The Progressive Support for the Prison-Industrial Complex

Like many progressives, I�ve been following the Tyler Clementi case with much interest, because it�s part of a larger ongoing conversation about the dangers of being queer in the United States. As the trial wound up and people started discussing the verdict, I found myself utterly fascinated by the intensity and viscerality of the progressive calls to lock Dharun Ravi up and throw away the key. People expressed outrage, horror, and disgust at his comparatively light prison sentence and the fact that he wouldn�t be deported.

I was disgusted too, but not at the outcome of the trial. Rather, I was horrified by my fellow �progressives� and their unabashed embrace of the prison-industrial complex in the United States, which chews up young men of colour and spits them out. This isn�t the first or the last time that the fraught progressive relationship with the US justice system was on full display, and it�s troubling to me that there�s so much widespread acceptance, and support, of the way the current system works.

When pressed, many progressives indicate that they have concerns about racial inequalities in the US justice system. They are aware of racial profiling and the grossly disproportionate representation of people of colour in prison. Some are also concerned about mandatory sentencing and other flawed laws that determine who goes to jail or prison and for how long. Many also express worries about safety within the prison system, particularly for LGBQT prisoners.

But many progressives stop short of questioning the prison system itself, and asking why it exists in its current form. There�s a social myth that prison is rehabilitative, intended to lead people on the path to personal change, but it�s pretty obviously punitive and retributive. Those paying lip service to the rehabilitative meme are well aware that reform is not what prison is for. People calling for Ravi�s imprisonment wanted to see him punished for what he did. Asking him to spend an extended time in prison wasn�t about hoping for rehabilitation, but about a punitive measure, a reactive lashing-out...

Basically the prison system enjoys wide support because it plays on the dual myths - people who want retribution see it as such while no one really worries about it because they simultaneously see it as rehabilitative ~enough~

# ? May 29, 2012 03:27

ToxicSlurpee: Nov 5, 2003; -=SEND HELP=-; Pillbug

Yeah it's totally rehabilitative. If it weren't, why would they call them "correctional facilities?" Come on man, you just don't get it.

(in case you were wondering this post is dripping with sarcasm)

# ? May 29, 2012 03:58

Loomer: Dec 19, 2007; A Very Special Hell

The unfortunate reality is that the popular conception of justice relies on that element of punitiveness. People can't forgive easily, so they want to see those who have wronged them suffer - and in a political system where the desires of the people are meant to be enacted by their politicians, harsher punishment is one of the easiest 'look good' strategies a politician can take.

The fundamental problem isn't just the political system and the prison system, it's the popular conception of 'justice'.

# ? May 29, 2012 04:23

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Loomer posted:

The unfortunate reality is that the popular conception of justice relies on that element of punitiveness. People can't forgive easily, so they want to see those who have wronged them suffer - and in a political system where the desires of the people are meant to be enacted by their politicians, harsher punishment is one of the easiest 'look good' strategies a politician can take.

The fundamental problem isn't just the political system and the prison system, it's the popular conception of 'justice'.

Yes. Essentially the problem is we put the victim on a pedestal (or the record, most victims have long criminal records as well and would be demonized by the same people in any other circumstance. In fact, they tend to be the next time they are arrested.), while completely ignoring what is best for society (which is a productive member of society without the cost of 20 years of prison).

# ? May 29, 2012 04:36

Radbot: Aug 12, 2009; Can't post for 3 years!

Cardboard Box A posted:

http://tigerbeatdown.com/2012/05/28/retribution-or-chang-the-progressive-support-for-the-prison-industrial-complex/

Basically the prison system enjoys wide support because it plays on the dual myths - people who want retribution see it as such while no one really worries about it because they simultaneously see it as rehabilitative ~enough~

Something seems kind of disingenuous as portraying the Clementi case against Ravi as one that's based on color, as this piece implies.

# ? May 29, 2012 23:38

drkhrs2020: Jul 22, 2007

Watching After Innocence reminded me of this thread and brought me back to check out the new posts. All I kept thinking of was "only a few bad apples" but the reality is way more then a 'few'. Listening to the lawyers for the Innocence project tell how prosecutors and DA's actively suppress new information and prevent the release of demonstrably innocent prisoners was physically sickening.

Being able to hear how some prosecutors genuinely apologized and felt real regret for the wrongful conviction helped remind me that the system isn't beyond repair, just really hosed up and politicized beyond all belief. Nothing like courting voters by promising to violently mistreat people who break the law.

edit: Holy gently caress watching the Florida prosecutors trying to 'shout down' the Innocence project lawyers was shocking. The original case hinged entirely on hair, and the hair was shown to to belong to 2 other people, and the prosecutor then goes "Does it matter that its not his hair? We're taking a chance letting a potential rapist out."

drkhrs2020 fucked around with this message at 07:45 on May 30, 2012

# ? May 30, 2012 07:06

KingEup: Nov 18, 2004; I am a REAL ADDICT
(to threadshitting)

Please ask me for my google inspired wisdom on shit I know nothing about. Actually, you don't even have to ask.

Some pretty stunning pictures here: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/design/2012/05/stunning-geography-incarceration/2123/

quote:

Begley is a master�s student in the Interactive Telecommunications program at New York University. He wanted to graphically represent what all of this means, to communicate not just the sheer quantity of prisons in America (a number that has been booming for decades), but their volume on our landscape. As part of a class project, he created the oddly beautiful website Prison Map, which offers a mashed-up birds-eye view of all of these places, taken from Google Satellite images.

http://prisonmap.com/

KingEup fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Jun 2, 2012

# ? Jun 2, 2012 14:33

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

MounerKT posted:

Yes The American prisons are better than 3rd world country's. That's nothing to brag about. Even more so seeing that it's Honduras, a country that's currently having drug violence problems.

This is made even more hilarious by the fact that America is the reason Honduras is so hosed up. Well America is better than a country it actively hosed up the system works. :smug:

# ? Jun 2, 2012 14:55

duck monster: Dec 15, 2004

Loomer posted:

The unfortunate reality is that the popular conception of justice relies on that element of punitiveness. People can't forgive easily, so they want to see those who have wronged them suffer - and in a political system where the desires of the people are meant to be enacted by their politicians, harsher punishment is one of the easiest 'look good' strategies a politician can take.

The fundamental problem isn't just the political system and the prison system, it's the popular conception of 'justice'.

The very concept of capital punishment is almost unimaginable without stupid dumb retribution.

# ? Jun 2, 2012 14:59

Amarkov: Jun 21, 2010

Only tangentially related to this thread, but the cops thread is gone so :v:

:

Anyone have that old LF post about forensics and how they suck?

# ? Jun 2, 2012 21:52

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Amarkov posted:

Only tangentially related to this thread, but the cops thread is gone so :

Anyone have that old LF post about forensics and how they suck?

No, but my favorite factiod is that fingerprints have never been cleared by a proper peer reviewed study.

# ? Jun 2, 2012 21:55

FIRE CURES BIGOTS: Aug 26, 2002; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Some rear end in a top hat wrote to the local paper and it got to be the lead letter.

Lead letter: Prisons work better than social programs
Posted: May 31, 2012 - 12:00am | Updated: May 31, 2012 - 6:34am

Michael Hallett's opinion column titled, "Prosecution is no solution for violent crime problems," defies logic and common sense.

His premise is that money spent on prosecution and incarceration is wasted while only serving the needs of unnamed "powerful stakeholders," but that same money if spent on "tens of thousands of poor children in Jacksonville's public schools," would be productive and good.

Wisdom gleaned from 68 years of growing in knowledge and experience tells me the opposite. Criminals are individuals who have elected not to live within the bounds of societal norms.

When convicted, they often are incarcerated. When incarcerated, they are no longer on the streets committing crimes.

So my tax dollars spent on the criminal justice system have an immediate and positive impact on my life here in Jacksonville.

Criminals who could be committing crimes against me and my neighbors are in the slammer. That's bang for the taxpayer buck!

Contrast that with programs that purport to alleviate poverty and provide enrichment for young students in our local public schools.

Now we can really start to identify some "powerful stakeholders" � academics, teachers unions, anti-poverty agencies and federal, state and local bureaucrats.

It has been reported that since the initiation of the War on Poverty by President Lyndon Johnson in the mid-1960s, Americans have spent trillions of dollars in a futile attempt to eradicate poverty. The result in poverty reduction is effectively zilch.

As for the positive results in our local public schools from enrichment and other programs, give me a break. Our public schools have become a quasi-full-employment program, not an educational enrichment zone.

Hallett can call me Scrooge or the Grinch, but I will take the tangible cost-benefit ratio from prosecution and incarceration every day over feel-good but "never quite able to be measured" enrichment programs prescribed for the public schools.

Tim Turner,

Jacksonville

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/opinion/letters-readers/2012-05-31/story/lead-letter-prisons-work-better-social-programs#ixzz1wfpgMAyA

I am planning on responding

quote:

Someone once said, the difference between a Liberal and a Conservative is that a Conservative is a Liberal who has been robbed and a Liberal is a Conservative who has been arrested.

The system is severely flawed. Once you get snagged up by the machine, there is no getting out of it. Whether your were guilty or innocent, whether the crime was petty or severe. The mere status of being homeless is essentially criminal in some places.

You might be able to look down on "criminals" now but someday, you could be snatched up by that very system. Someday, you could lose your house. Someday, an arguement with a family member could escalate a little too far. Someday a cop or a prosecutor on a power trip could make you a target. Someday you could get injured in a car accident and an overzealous DEA agent, rather than your doctor decides your pain pills are suspicious. Someday you might make a mistake while driving and kill someone. Or maybe even your family members asks you to cash an inocuous check for them and next thing you know a federal prosecutor decides you're part of a "conspiracy." Maybe someday you decide to run for office and a prosecutor with a friend gunning for that job has your indicted on bull***** charges.

There are many roads to hell in our justice system and follow someone long enough and you can FIND something that they do that is illegal. Did you know it is illegal under federal law to own a fish? Do you know how many vaguely worded statutes there are?

The thing that so many people who wind up in the system say to themselves is "why me?" It's not all Carlos the career criminal liquor store robber although prisons are home to some real monsters. What those people should have said before the got caught up in the system was "Why not me?" We need more empathy. We need more wisdom. We don't need more prison. Our country has the highest rate of incarceration in the world. If more prisons were the answer we would be the least violent country on earth. We're not.

Also I really hate conservatives:

quote:

Your letter was on the mark, and it is expected that liberal pinheads as Hallett and his surrogates would attack you. The welfare program started by FDR was greatly expanded by LBJ and liberals in congress and has led to the destruction of the black family and increased government dependency!

In "The Abolition of Man" � C.S Lewis rails against the undermining of traditional values and the increase in emotional and sentimental propaganda!

"In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful."

BTW, the only 'execution' most liberals will accept is the 'execution' of the unborn, and that is a real shame!

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/opinion/letters-readers/2012-05-31/story/lead-letter-prisons-work-better-social-programs#ixzz1wfrP92Tf

quote:

"The war on poverty and the war on crime were both failed wars on the same people".

so, you are stating if there was no poverty, there would be no drug problem? there have always been both, but drugs have never permeated our society as they do today and the "poor" have never lived so well. IMHO, if punishment was dealt out harshly ON BUYERS/USERS, there would be less use. TO SEND A KINGPIN TO JAIL WHOSE ORGANIZATION MAKES HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR ONLY CREATES AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ONE OF HIS UNDERLINGS. heck, for that kind of money, if i knew where the line was to get his job (and income) i'd get in it!

"people with few options going into the prison system had even fewer coming out".

here you are correct. druggies especially have a hard time as noone trust them again, with good reason. when was the last time you heard of a bank robber giving his/her children to others for sex if they have knowledge of information on a bank? it was in the T-U not that long ago where a mother sold her baby girl for sex for drugs. HOWEVER, illegal drugs are all SELF-INFLECTED! it is not by accident you are hooked on illegal drugs (you are not as "tough" as you think you are). "to escape the mental burden of poverty" is used as a reason for using drugs. you know what else works? a job! no matter how menial it may be, when you have a job, at the end of your day you can take pride in your accomplishments and/or learn from your "not so great moments". any failure in self esteem IS A FAILURE OF THE PARENTS, WHO HAVE JUST BEEN GIVEN EVERYTHING FOR NOTHING FOR SO LONG, THEY BELIEVE IT IS THEIR "RIGHT" TO HAVE EVERYTHING FOR FREE".

"Duval has long had the highest number of convicts on death row�yet we still lead the state in homicide"

number actually executed? this is akin to your mother or father saying the next time you do that, i'm going to punish you. but they never punish you regardless of the number of transgressions. the LACK of executions in todays failed judicial system breeds the notion that it will not happen. and based on current performance- that is correct! so the thought that if i kill someone i am going to die, never crosses a murderers' mind.

prison today is NOT a punishment for criminals, it is an inconvience. the greatest fear is not society's retribution, it is another inmate deciding , for whatever reason, to "get" you. now you've got real problems and real FEAR.

if criminals had as much fear and certainty of society's retribution as they know they have of another criminal, society wouldn't have a lot to worry about.

FIRE CURES BIGOTS fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jun 2, 2012

# ? Jun 2, 2012 22:30

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

bullshit posted:

"to escape the mental burden of poverty" is used as a reason for using drugs. you know what else works? a job! no matter how menial it may be, when you have a job, at the end of your day you can take pride in your accomplishments and/or learn from your "not so great moments". any failure in self esteem IS A FAILURE OF THE PARENTS, WHO HAVE JUST BEEN GIVEN EVERYTHING FOR NOTHING FOR SO LONG, THEY BELIEVE IT IS THEIR "RIGHT" TO HAVE EVERYTHING FOR FREE".

You heard it here folks, working at McDonald's is as fun as doing drugs, and if you're miserable and poor, it's because your parents hosed you up by giving you the expectation that society wouldn't allow you to die on the street! Hard-hitting truth-telling for sure.

Fire, you might want to edit your response a bit if you're intending to send it in as an actual letter to the editor. You've got an extra asterisk on bullshit and a few other typos.

# ? Jun 3, 2012 04:02

Technogeek: Sep 9, 2002; by FactsAreUseless

nm posted:

No, but my favorite factiod is that fingerprints have never been cleared by a proper peer reviewed study.

Yeah, I was at a talk several months back about the Cameron Todd Willingham case/shitstorm that touched on that very point -- DNA evidence is the only kind of forensic evidence that has any stated margin of error.

Mind you, there have been attempts at establishing one for fingerprints, but I'm not certain how well they've worked out past the initial "we might actually have something here, deploy the press release and hope it gets us more funding" stage.

# ? Jun 3, 2012 04:27

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

Fire posted:

I am planning on responding

Good luck- the letter-writer seems to be more interested in a sort of "welfare queen" rant against education/social programs than prison issues.

If that weren't the case, and he was really interested in getting the most bang for his taxpayer buck in dealing with felons, he'd probably be interested in things which are twice as effective and 1800 times cheaper than prison.

# ? Jun 3, 2012 04:55

Forums Terrorist: Dec 8, 2011

Not sure if this got posted elsewhere but here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/06/women-born-free-give-birth-in-chains?newsfeed=true

Sadhbh Walshe posted:

theft. Over a year later, after she missed a court date, she was sent to the Cook County jail, in Illinois. She was eight months pregnant at the time.

During a pre-natal check-up at the facility, her baby appeared to have no heartbeat, so she was sent to the county hospital. As the medical team tried to induce her, Fletcher claims that both her hands and both her feet were shackled to either side of the bed. Only when she finally went into labor, three days later, was one hand and one foot released. It's hard to imagine a more crucifying way to force a woman to try to give birth.

Sadly for Fletcher, there was no payoff for the trauma and humiliation she was forced to endure, as her baby was born dead.

Fletcher was one of the plaintiffs in a class action lawsuit brought against Cook County on behalf of 80 female prisoners and detainees who also claimed to have had similar experiences of being shackled during childbirth. Just under two weeks ago, the county agreed to a settlement of $4.1m dollars payable to the women, who will each receive between $5,000 and $45,000.

The Cook County sheriff's office made it clear, however, that they were agreeing to the deal for expediency's sake only and were admitting to no wrongdoing. This despite the fact that Illinois became the first state in the union to ban the practice of shackling women during labor, back in 1999 � at least seven years before any of the women named in the lawsuit had their babies. A spokesman for the department, Frank Bilecki, went so far as to issue a statement claiming the jail's treatment of (female) detainees is the "most progressive in the nation".

# ? Jun 7, 2012 21:57

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# ? May 28, 2024 05:19

Shageletic: Jul 25, 2007

Speaking of infuriating articles:

quote:

Marijuana arrests are not racist. Harry Levine, the Times, and the New York Civil Liberties Union trumpet the fact that most arrestees for low-level marijuana crimes in New York City are black and Hispanic, even though national polls allegedly show that young whites use marijuana at higher rates than young minorities. Those national polls are based on self-reporting; they don�t measure frequency of consumption or whether that consumption occurs in public or private. Let us assume for the moment that New York City displays the same patterns of marijuana use as nationally. Let us even assume that white teens walk down the street smoking joints at the same rate as black teens (something that does not conform to my informal observations, though the recent arrival in New York of the loathsome white gutter punks who have colonized sidewalks on the West Coast may change that).

The reason that marijuana arrests are higher in high-crime neighborhoods is that their law-abiding residents ask for heavier police presence and for enforcement of all the laws�including drug laws. The anti-cop advocates love to point out that the 50,000 marijuana-possession arrests in 2011 were more than all such arrests in the 19 years leading up to 1996, when marijuana arrests began rising under the mayoral administration of Rudolph Giuliani. Recall what those 19 years were like: �Twenty years ago you couldn�t walk through here,� a 58-year-old former junkie told me at an East Harlem anti-stop rally several weeks ago. �There�s no crime here anymore.� From 1977 to 1996, those allegedly halcyon days without marijuana enforcement, 12.4 million felonies were committed in the city; from 1997 to 2006, there were only 2.6 million. And it was minority neighborhoods in those pre-Giuliani decades that were most lethally overrun by both crime and the drug trade. Police enforce low-level drug offenses in high-crime areas because they are trying to establish norms of lawful conduct. Ideally, parents would be the ones enforcing those norms, but when they fail to, as the predation in minority neighborhoods shows has happened, the police will step in in their stead.

http://www.city-journal.org/2012/eon0607hm.html

It's been a while since I read something this myopic. Crime has dropped! And arrests for marijuana has risen! The one caused the other! Post hoc ergo propter hoc? Never heard of it.

1/3 of black males cycle through the prison system. 31% of prison admissions are for drug related crimes involving no one else but the imprisoned person. Marijuana accounts for almost half of them! The extent that this author ignores the pernicious effects of criminalization on black neighborhoods is breath-taking. No need to analyze outside factors or past history. After all, you can play basketball in Battery Park.

# ? Jun 8, 2012 02:27

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