p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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duTrieux.: Oct 9, 2003

tef posted:

oh my god

# ? May 18, 2012 23:56

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# ? May 8, 2024 16:47

Janitor Prime: Jan 22, 2004; PC LOAD LETTER

What da fuck does that mean; Fun Shoe

Police Academy III posted:

ya, you've got to spend like 6 lines of code just to make some dumb class to hold 2 values and then 8 more lines for getters + setters if you don't want to piss off the java oop sperg gods. basically what im saying is that java is terrible.

It's you, the dumbo that doesn't use an IDE to auto generate that poo poo and forget it.

iamthexander posted:

I do, ~23500 items.

Thinking LinkedArray might actually be the best here since I never need random access and only need to iterate through the whole thing. Any benefits to using a Pair class over creating my own shell class?

Also new step: now lets say I have the following objects:
code:
LinkedList myList1;
LinkedList myList2;
...
LinkedList myListn;
Where should I toss those Lists so I can access them programatically by their names (something like 'return yosposArrays["myList17"];')? HashMap?

The pair class is useful if you only really need 2 things to be grouped together because it can be reused later to hold 2 other things without having to create a bunch of shell classes.

Also you're last question really reeks of the XY problem. What are you trying to do with named variables? The short answer without knowing jack poo poo is to use a Map with the variable names as the Keys, and the Lists as the values.

# ? May 18, 2012 23:59

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

MEAT TREAT posted:

It's you, the dumbo that doesn't use an IDE to auto generate that poo poo and forget it.

http://projectlombok.org/slideshow.html :q:

# ? May 19, 2012 00:04

skeevy achievements: Feb 25, 2008; by merry exmarx

assuming there's no simple tuple in java(?) iirc in you can have public inner classes which might be a handy way to build those one-off return types without polluting your file system

like

code:

public class MyList {
  
  public class Pair {
    // vars and accessors
  }

  public MyList.Pair getNext() {
    // etc.
  }

}

dunno if that's idiomatic or not but probably beats having your source directories littered with one-off return types

tef posted:

http://projectlombok.org/slideshow.html

eh no more like typing "rint count" or whatever in IDEA, hitting crtl space -> Generate Accessors and it generate a private int variable called with public accessors

guys who are good at IDEA can have 80%+ of their code generated, it's pretty cool to watch code explode out from a few keystrokes

skeevy achievements fucked around with this message at 00:34 on May 19, 2012

# ? May 19, 2012 00:25

coaxmetal: Oct 21, 2010; I flamed me own dad

tef posted:

ahahahahahaha

# ? May 19, 2012 00:26

salted hash browns: Mar 26, 2007; ykrop

MEAT TREAT posted:

Also you're last question really reeks of the XY problem. What are you trying to do with named variables? The short answer without knowing jack poo poo is to use a Map with the variable names as the Keys, and the Lists as the values.

So essentially I have this kind of data:

code:

[timestamp][name][value]
0000000001  AAA1  100
0000000001  BBB2  728
0000000001  CCC3  343
...
0000000043  AAA1  233
0000000043  BBB2  111
0000000043  CCC3  552

And I want to obtain the objects 'AAA1', 'BBB2', 'CCC3' (that contain timestamp and value in order) so that I can perform comparisons against each possible combination, for example:

code:

myCompareFunction(AAA1, BBB2);
myCompareFunction(AAA1, CCC3);
myCompareFunction(BBB2, CCC3);

Except in reality I have like 500 of those objects. There has to be a better way of doing this!

# ? May 19, 2012 00:56

Opinion Haver: Apr 9, 2007

tef posted:

jesus

e: holy poo poo he says he's a feminist in his profile ahahhah

Opinion Haver fucked around with this message at 09:37 on May 19, 2012

# ? May 19, 2012 09:30

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

reverse sexism :argh:

# ? May 19, 2012 09:43

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

# ? May 19, 2012 10:08

Wheany: Mar 17, 2006; Spinya^{ha^{ha^haha}ha}ha_{ha_{ha_haha}ha}ha!; Doctor Rope

is nick donnelly someone is should know/care about, or just some random nerd obn the internet?

# ? May 19, 2012 11:51

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

just another dickhead

# ? May 19, 2012 12:11

Jonny 290: May 5, 2005; [ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

hehhhhhh

# ? May 19, 2012 12:13

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

http://nodephp.org/

# ? May 19, 2012 12:13

Jonny 290: May 5, 2005; [ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

i can tell im developing as a coder because instead of just emptyquoting stuff like that with a "loll" i now take a minute to actually get fuckin' horrified at what the gently caress im looking at

# ? May 19, 2012 12:16

0xB16B00B5: Aug 24, 2006; by Y Kant Ozma Post

im making my next website in react

http://nodephp.org

# ? May 19, 2012 12:55

cowboy beepboop: Feb 24, 2001

tef posted:

http://nodephp.org/

no. no..

# ? May 19, 2012 13:20

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

my stepdads beer posted:

no. no..

YES. YES.

# ? May 19, 2012 13:39

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

personally I can't wait for this node fever to reach java, and someone ports the 'reactor' to the java including a nice big old xml file for establishing the services

# ? May 19, 2012 13:39

Hammerite: Mar 9, 2007; And you don't remember what I said here, either, but it was pompous and stupid.; Jade Ear Joe

Server running at http://127.0.0.1:1337

# ? May 19, 2012 13:47

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Internaut! posted:

tef how on a scale of 1-10 how much do you sneer at domain specific languages implemented in lisp dialects

lisp would be a good language if there was some way to use it without turning into an rear end in a top hat. I think it might have something to do with metaprogramming, i'm not sure.

probably something about how instead of writing in a language other people can use, lisp users are encouraged to write their own language only they can use. yadda yadda yadda.

lisp � the best way to show *exactly* how clever you are to all those other programmers.

# ? May 19, 2012 13:53

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

I guess that may count as 10 on sneering, but it is more of a 'why would you go and do a thing' :stare:

# ? May 19, 2012 13:57

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

tef posted:

lisp would be a good language if there was some way to use it without turning into an rear end in a top hat. I think it might have something to do with metaprogramming, i'm not sure.

i guess i need to start writing some macros :q:

# ? May 19, 2012 14:37

skeevy achievements: Feb 25, 2008; by merry exmarx

tef posted:

I guess that may count as 10 on sneering, but it is more of a 'why would you go and do a thing'

consulting dollars, presumably big ones

I'm flipping through this book on DSLs for kicks and the author with a straight face is relaying how his company built a DSL for trading where traders would enter trades ala the following:

code:

place orders (
  new Order to buy(100 sharesOf "IBM")
    limitPrice 300
    allOrNone
    using premiumPricing,
  new Order to buy(200 sharesOf "CISCO")
    limitOnClosePrice 300
    using premiumPricing,
    new Order to buy(200 sharesOf "GOOGLE")
    limitOnOpenPrice 300
    using defaultPricing
)

can you imagine any possible problems with this approach to entering trades versus doing so in a custom written and tightly controlled gui

that said small macros to handle tedious poo poo like that regex switch statement I mentioned earlier seems like ownage but let me try debugging a few and get back to you :suicide:

skeevy achievements fucked around with this message at 15:43 on May 19, 2012

# ? May 19, 2012 15:21

Rufus Ping: Dec 27, 2006; I'm a Friend of Rodney Nano

DSL joke

# ? May 19, 2012 15:41

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

tef posted:

http://nodephp.org/

noooo these people aren't even supposed to like php

# ? May 19, 2012 15:49

My Linux Rig: Mar 27, 2010; Can't post for 6 years!

Tiny Bug Child posted:

noooo people aren't even supposed to like php

# ? May 19, 2012 15:57

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Internaut! posted:

consulting dollars, presumably big ones

it is more of the 'rubyist' look ma I made a dsl *inside* a general purpose language that gets me. it isn't a real ~~domain specific~~ language unless the parse errors/stack traces are about that language.

:colbert:

without coming over all spolsky, one of the few bits of terminology he nailed was 'leaky abstractions'. I am yet to see a so-called "Embedded DSL" in practice that didn't demand knowledge of the host language, especially when debugging it.

quote:

I'm flipping through this book on DSLs for kicks and the author with a straight face is relaying how his company built a DSL for trading where traders would enter trades ala the following:

DSLs are often hailed as a silver bullet of programming, wherein you can get people to write programs, in programming languages, without learning how to program. I don't get it myself.

I'm a big believer in having a language with enough syntax to get by, and extending it through libraries, over a language where you grow it through adding new semantics/syntax. If you'll excuse a poor linguistic metaphor - I would rather use a language with a small grammar and a rich vocabulary, even if some constructs are clunky, than a language with a rich grammar. It is less cognitive overhead for us poor slobs who have to maintain code.

quote:

can you imagine any possible problems with this approach to entering trades versus doing so in a custom written and tightly controlled guy

I don't think those are necessarily the only option, but really, the advantages of using a text format come from the variety of tools available - source control is the obvious one. Still, we do use big and fancy gui programs to write big and fancy text programs. They aren't incompatible.

quote:

that said small macros to handle tedious poo poo like that regex switch statement I mentioned earlier seems like ownage but let me try debugging a few and get back to you

The problem is that this compounds. not to sound like a broken window, but metaprogramming is rather moreish. You will find that each and every library has just a few macros, here and there and the complexity adds up considerably. Every file you open can have its own different ideas on flow control, syntax and structure.

This is the crux of the "lisp makes you an rear end in a top hat" problem. Without discipline and self control, programmers are free to run wild with the power tools across the code base. It makes it easy for the person writing the program to explain things, and terrible for anyone else editing the file. Metaprogramming is an antisocial activity, a toolsmithing desire to change the language to suit your needs, burdening others with your inability to explain what you want in simpler terms.

# ? May 19, 2012 16:02

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

there are too many programming languages imo

# ? May 19, 2012 16:02

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

rotor posted:

there are too many programming languages imo

there aren't enough different ones.

most of them are just the same language over and over again.

# ? May 19, 2012 16:04

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Tiny Bug Child posted:

noooo these people aren't even supposed to like php

it's u

# ? May 19, 2012 16:05

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

software download On 2012-01-27 at 10:55
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# ? May 19, 2012 16:09

trex eaterofcadrs: Jun 17, 2005; My lack of understanding is only exceeded by my lack of concern.

tef posted:

I'm a big believer in having a language with enough syntax to get by, and extending it through libraries, over a language where you grow it through adding new semantics/syntax. If you'll excuse a poor linguistic metaphor - I would rather use a language with a small grammar and a rich vocabulary, even if some constructs are clunky, than a language with a rich grammar. It is less cognitive overhead for us poor slobs who have to maintain code.

I don't think those are necessarily the only option, but really, the advantages of using a text format come from the variety of tools available - source control is the obvious one. Still, we do use big and fancy gui programs to write big and fancy text programs. They aren't incompatible.

The problem is that this compounds. not to sound like a broken window, but metaprogramming is rather moreish. You will find that each and every library has just a few macros, here and there and the complexity adds up considerably. Every file you open can have its own different ideas on flow control, syntax and structure.

This is the crux of the "lisp makes you an rear end in a top hat" problem. Without discipline and self control, programmers are free to run wild with the power tools across the code base. It makes it easy for the person writing the program to explain things, and terrible for anyone else editing the file. Metaprogramming is an antisocial activity, a toolsmithing desire to change the language to suit your needs, burdening others with your inability to explain what you want in simpler terms.

the best argument for java i've ever seen

# ? May 19, 2012 16:10

My Linux Rig: Mar 27, 2010; Can't post for 6 years!

trex eaterofcadrs posted:

the best argument for java i've ever seen

java isn't too bad

the script has issues though

# ? May 19, 2012 16:12

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

tef posted:

there aren't enough different ones.

most of them are just the same language over and over again.

i dunno. you've got c, prolog, shell, ocaml, erlang, forth ... i'm not sure how much more different stuff you need

but yeah, i guess my complaint is that, like, why do we need perl, ruby AND python? or java, c# AND obj-c? the free market of ideas just doesn't work.

# ? May 19, 2012 16:17

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

trex eaterofcadrs posted:

the best argument for java i've ever seen

java would be better if they'd known how people use it now compared to how they designed it.

(c.f arrays vs arraylist, primitives vs objects, final, synchronized etc)

(from what I have seen, c# is a better attempt at java with hindsight)

# ? May 19, 2012 16:17

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

tef posted:

Metaprogramming is an antisocial activity, a toolsmithing desire to change the language to suit your needs, burdening others with your inability to explain what you want in simpler terms.

this is a seriously great quote tho

# ? May 19, 2012 16:19

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

tef posted:

(from what I have seen, c# is a better attempt at java with hindsight)

yep.

# ? May 19, 2012 16:20

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

rotor posted:

i dunno. you've got c, prolog, shell, ocaml, erlang, forth ... i'm not sure how much more different stuff you need

the way in which we program and the sorts of programs we have been writing have changed considerably, well considerably enough to warrant exploring new language features and new collections of features

quote:

but yeah, i guess my complaint is that, like, why do we need perl, ruby AND python? or java, c# AND obj-c? the free market of ideas just doesn't work.

there are some massive differences underpinning these, but there is no good reason to support a plethora of languages at a company (google was right :q:

)

# ? May 19, 2012 16:23

trex eaterofcadrs: Jun 17, 2005; My lack of understanding is only exceeded by my lack of concern.

tef posted:

java would be better if they'd known how people use it now compared to how they designed it.

(c.f arrays vs arraylist, primitives vs objects, final, synchronized etc)

(from what I have seen, c# is a better attempt at java with hindsight)

for sure, java was made by some pretty loving smart people who were rushed to get their thing out the door and a lot of compromises were made that C# did a better job of handling

that said, java is as close to "programmers as replaceable cogs" as i've ever seen a language get; pretty sane defaults, no real wizardry involved, syntax is dead simple, corner cases really aren't bad, jvm fixes a lot of the larger cases of programmer shittiness automatically (with a little help from javac). the standard library is kind of a cluster gently caress but javadoc is really good at allowing you to sift thru the poo poo. every time i go on msdn to look up docs for .NET i cry a little and pray for javadoc

# ? May 19, 2012 16:28

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# ? May 8, 2024 16:47

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

tef posted:

there are some massive differences underpinning these

i understand that but my point is that they aim at solving the same problems in the same way and if I was Tyrant King Of The Universe i'd kill off all but one and put the development efforts all behind one of them

# ? May 19, 2012 16:30

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