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I asked one of the boxing trainers when I can regularly with the other regulars spar and he said a whole year, but earlier if I can get a decent partner that doesn't try to kill me. Well, poo poo isn't that kind of what trainers are supposed to do? He said he'd keep an eye out and get me in there but it's frustrating because bags never hit back so I feel like I'm not really learning important things about defense. Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 22:14 on May 18, 2012 |
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May 18, 2012 22:05
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Chemtrail Clem posted:I guess you have to learn how to catch them. I got really good at catching kicks because as someone who came from boxing to MT, getting kept out of punching range by teeps sucks like Hell!!!! Once you catch a few and sweep them on their rear end really hard they usually think twice about being so teep happy OK, thanks. I imagined this being the standup equivalent to a D1 wrestler smothering a stoner who's desperately trying to grab his foot at grapplers quest. Not getting hurt but still feeling hopeless is the worst.
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May 18, 2012 22:35
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Haha went to boxing today and they're going to let me spar soon. One of the trainers will work with me. So moral of the story: ask to be punched in the face and you shall receive.
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May 19, 2012 02:03
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Xguard86 posted:Haha went to boxing today and they're going to let me spar soon. One of the trainers will work with me. So moral of the story: ask to be punched in the face and you shall receive. I think a lot of the "1 year" stuff is making sure you're in shape to survive at least a single round
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May 19, 2012 07:42
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Xguard86 posted:I asked one of the boxing trainers when I can regularly with the other regulars spar and he said a whole year, but earlier if I can get a decent partner that doesn't try to kill me. Well, poo poo isn't that kind of what trainers are supposed to do? I don't understand why boxing coaches are always being so conservative about letting people spar. Whenever I attended boxing gyms it was so rare that we got to spar, it really rarely happened. Is there a specific reason for this? It never happened with any kickoxing classes I went to.
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May 19, 2012 07:49
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Guilty posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fec32bOLvLw&feature=youtu.be I enjoyed. Also right cross to the body is harder than many people figure out it is, and it's often a) slow b) leaves you open, but that dude throws it as smoothly as a jab.
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May 19, 2012 09:09
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Hmmm, boxing coaches aren't always that conservative when it comes to sparring. I attended, as some might remember from my spamming, The Boxing School for MEN (= boxing basic course) earlier this year. We were doing light sparring in two weeks or so. Of course we started with sparring drills instead of open sparring. For example left jab vs left jab only. Stuff like that. But I think it was week four if not earlier when we were told to just go at it with every technique we knew with one rule in mind: control control control. No KO's and as a somewhat unwritten rule go light enough your partner won't be too scared to do anything, as it can be counterproductive to learning at that point. (Heavy sparring is cool and a must if you want to compete, but IMO that comes much later.) I just threw quick little pillow punches and kept the volume down to Savate assaut rules myself, and let them wail at me. Anyway it seems to really depend on the club and the gym. Before we had this boxing course thing at my current gym, we still had open boxing classes a couple of times a week, and check this out: anyone who came over was welcome to sparring. The coach (like, they were real boxing coaches, not bums from the street and nerds like me) would just gauge out the guy or girl and make sure the newcomer was paired with someone who would tone down if necessary. AFAIK nobody has ever been really hurt, and while some noses have been busted open - mine included when I went there back in -07, nobody ever felt they'd been maliciously beaten up or in danger or something like that... at least as far as I know. My take is that once you are shown the jab and a basic guard, you should start having guys pummel each other with that. So at least sparring drills by week two or three. You get conditioning fighting against a bag or a mirror, but you will never, ever truly understand when and how to throw what punch and use any of the slips and dodges unless someone is punching back at you, unless you are some kind of a freak or the guy from the Old Boy movie. Personal anecdote: I saw this "boxing class" on the calendar in -06 which you could go into, kind of like open class for everyone, from savateurs to fitness boxers to self defense nerds and everyone, and decided to go. We jogged, did crunches and punched the bag and stuff. I gaped at this dude who was throwing the smoothest hand combinations I had probably seen from up close that point, and told one of the coaches that this was the fact. He'd had fights and stuff. I was awed! The coaches face split into a grin like a goat sliced open - you're sparring with him next. I'm like "poo poo, I'm WHAT?" and before I knew I was in the ring with this dude who mercilessly beat my face sore. That day I learned the proper positioning of the left arm in a boxing guard. It was great, and while reasonably humiliated walking out I felt like a KING. Other anecdote, not personal, from boxing in the 80s, IIRC mentioned it here before once: One of the more veteran guys who functions in the BF circles was holding class about sports conditioning and coaching, and we somehow ended up talking boxing. When he first went to box, he used to lift and was pretty big. This old geezer who was the headcoach at the gym told him to put on gloves and get into the ring where he was beat up by the other more experienced guys. For months. Every practice. The only technique advice he received, while being punched black and blue twice a week? "Throw de jab". So after class he'd be sitting on the floor, head hanging, thinking about throwing the jab. They didn't even tell him HOW to throw it. Good times apparently. He became really good in the end.
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May 19, 2012 09:41
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I don't get very light sparring unless there's a huge skill gap. Most people develop bad habits if there's no penalty for loving up and they're not used to the speed of real punches&kicks. Nobody I know ever got hurt from throwing at around 50%...anything lower than that and it's more of a warmup exercise instead of sparring.
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May 19, 2012 11:58
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Paul Pot posted:I need help countering fast teeps, I just can't close distance on this one guy who became really good at those after spending 6 months in Thailand. My gameplan is usually to feint, get into boxing range, throw a combination and finish with lowkick. I just can't get into a boxing fight with this guy because he'll manage to hit my knee or bellybutton 90% of the time so it turns into a traditional MT style kicking match which I'm not as good at as him. Crouch down like you're dodging a punch more often, and use your elbow to sweep the teep to the side. Use your left lower elbow to sweep the inside of his left foot, and this should put you in the perfect position for a right straight to the body. I love this one. If the teep is too low, just answer right back with a kick. If your fight stance is good, he's not going to want to hit your mid section because it will be easier to catch since it's farther away than your torso. If he goes for the torso, use the elbow sweep. If he goes for the legs, either block, or just answer
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May 19, 2012 13:56
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Does anyone practice any shin hardening? If so, how? Etc
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May 19, 2012 18:26
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Another benefit of boxing is that I might learn Spanish by accidente.
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May 19, 2012 19:10
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Christoff posted:Does anyone practice any shin hardening? If so, how? Etc You practice by learning to land kicks and blocks with the correct technique so that it lands on the correct part of the leg. Either block with a knee where the muscle comes out or land blocks and kicks at the lowest part of the shin where the foot connects. If you really care about 'shin hardening', start by taking a thick wooden dowel and rolling it up and down your shins to deaden the nerves in your free time. Like constantly. You're a lot better off by just learning proper technique
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May 19, 2012 20:05
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Thanks for the response, Doing some googling it seems I'm best just somewhat lightly hitting my shins up and down with a piece of wood or something to thicken the bone over time. I mean, do I really want to do deaden the nerves if my shins aren't stronger?
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May 20, 2012 05:34
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I'm not a kicker but most experienced people here recommend just training as you normally would and the pain tolerance will increase naturally.
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May 20, 2012 06:23
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sparring notes: I was finding some success with changing levels and attacking the body. One of the Saturday regulars figured me out. He found a read and fixed his guard to catch my body shots on his elbows. Or he'd clinch me hard and put up a hard rear knee. Great adjustments from him. One of the knees got me on the wrist and it's a bit clicky. My response will have to be to really get aggressive with the jab and keep him tall and leaning back, following with cross or uppercut, then pivoting to the outside. Having more gas would help -- been feeling like poo poo the last couple sessions. Christoff posted:Doing some googling it seems I'm best just somewhat lightly hitting my shins up and down with a piece of wood or something to thicken the bone over time. I mean, do I really want to do deaden the nerves if my shins aren't stronger? Lightly, it's not gonna do much. Hard, it'll cause knots, which you don't want. Your nerves will deaden after thousands of good kicks to the Thai bag. e: one more comment (maybe this was in the boxing training thread?) -- Really light sparring is fine if one guy is a beginner and one is pretty experienced. The experienced guy is responsible for keeping the beginner honest. If he gets wild and slings shots, the experienced guy can pick shots and control. If the beginner hold his hands down too much, the experience guy can place repeated meaningful jabs to his face. kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 06:55 on May 20, 2012 |
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May 20, 2012 06:50
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Ah, right. Thanks guys. I'll just stick to the bag then.
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May 20, 2012 11:44
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Why is it that boxing gyms have a near-100% rate of people wrapping their hands for training, but most thai boxing / MMA schools have a near-100% rate of people not wrapping their hands for practice? Obviously, everyone wraps for competition, but I've heard conflicting opinions on wrapping for training, and I'm curious what you guys think. I understand the point of wrapping - it stabilizes the wrist so that the metacarpal bones are aligned appropriately with the forearm, and it also compresses the tissue of the hand so that the force of the punch is absorbed by the metacarpals and the surrounding tissue, rather than by the metacarpals alone. I have trained with and without wrapping, and don't really have a position on the issue. I've never been injured when training unwrapped, but that doesn't really mean anything - I could just be lucky. Some people say that you should wrap for everything - focus mitts, speed bag, heavy bag, sparring, competition. The typical argument that I hear is that this is to prevent injuries. New people, and experienced people with bad form, may need the wrapping to prevent injuries resulting from their poor technique. More experienced people may need wrapping to prevent injuries resulting from really hard punches. I've also heard that wrapping is particularly important to prevent injuries where you are punching an unpredictable target (like a sparring partner or during certain focus mitt drills), because sometimes the unpredictability of the target results in a bad punch (even for an experience person). The people I've met who hold this position have all been boxing people. Some people say that you should wrap for heavier sparring and heavy bag workouts, but for light stuff and focus mitts, you don't need to. Some people say that you should only wrap for competition. I have been at a seminar with a very successful MMA instructor who said that his guys don't wrap unless it is for competition, because they don't hit hard enough to warrant wrapping during their training sessions - and he was talking about new students and experienced students. His opinion was that people should not be hitting hard enough to require wrapping when they are training. At the thai boxing and MMA classes I've been to, I've never seen anyone wrap - even though hitting thai pads with punches is definitely harder on the hands than hitting boxing mitts. I have been to one or two MMA classes where everyone wrapped, and it seemed like part of their training culture. edit: not trying to start a shitstorm about wrapping vs. not wrapping, I am mostly interested in hearing from people at thai / mma schools who DO wrap for training, and from people at boxing gyms who do not wrap. I'd like to hear why you do or do not wrap.
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May 21, 2012 18:53
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Well boxers only punch where as mt and mma people are doing a ton more. So in an hour session the boxer might be throwing 8x or more the number of punches compared to mt and mma. I think that might account for the difference in practice.
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May 21, 2012 19:02
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Everyone who's been there for longer than a few weeks and who didn't show up late wraps their hands at my MT gym. Injuries aside, I just like it from a cleanliness standard. It's basically underwear for your gloves. Using a clean pair of wraps every time you use them is probably the number one thing you can do to keep them from smelling like poo poo. CRISPYBABY fucked around with this message at 19:39 on May 21, 2012 |
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May 21, 2012 19:36
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Just about everyone wraps at my mma gym...to avoid injury afaik
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May 21, 2012 21:05
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I checked out a new muay thai gym last night and everyone there was wearing wraps. It feels pretty amazing to be training again after 8 or 9 months of my stupid toe holding me back. Shins ruined, forearms ruined, legs sore as hell.
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May 22, 2012 00:29
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entris posted:Wraps 90% of the people at our gym wraps, the 10% that don't are the new ones who've only been there for a while. Even the fitness boxers and what I consider people who just do cardio (basically aerobics) with a kicking/punching theme wrap. I can't even hit a bag hard anymore without wraps. My subconscious pulls back or something? It wasn't long ago when I explained a punch (not wearing wraps, because I wasn't supposed to train) gave a good whack at a heavy bag and landed at a slightly wrong angle because it was swinging a bit. Ouch. Don't want that. I can't even imagine what shape my wrists would end up after a session with hundreds of meaningful strikes thrown without wrapping. Well I can guess, not very good. That said, light contact sparring, like Savate assaut, is doable without wrapping but not encouraged. There's a ton of ways your wrists can still twist this way and that with 200+ lbs guys hitting and kicking each other. Ligur fucked around with this message at 08:06 on May 22, 2012 |
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May 22, 2012 08:00
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The only time muay thai doesn't necessarily wrap is for clinching practice, because velcro scratches are loving annoying as poo poo...
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May 22, 2012 09:33
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Guilty posted:The only time muay thai doesn't necessarily wrap is for clinching practice, because velcro scratches are loving annoying as poo poo... This, a million times. Over the years I've had my poo poo scratched and gouged out dozens of times practicing the clinch. I'm pretty obsessive about checking my partner now. Also, they tend to come unraveled from all the pummeling and throws. A good option is to wear gloves when training the clinch...as long as hey don't fasten wih velcro too. Otherwise, wraps that poo poo up.
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May 22, 2012 13:08
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Once I was showing a new guy how to forearm his way out of the clinch. Somehow in the middle of a sparring round, his glove velcro came undone and he forearmed me right in the eye... gently caress that was awful
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May 22, 2012 13:50
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Thanks for the responses guys, I appreciate it.
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May 22, 2012 14:02
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Every MT gym I've trained at (like 5 of them or something) handwrapping has been standard practice
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May 22, 2012 15:19
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A Mexican boxing coach told us this story today, after observing too many people were trying to punch the gloves, the forehead or, say, the elbows of their opponents. There's a common problem in bars: men tend to miss the urinals. There's a row of them and people miss them. Instead they piss all over the loving place, there are pools of piss on the floor. The cleaners are mad, the customers foul their shoes. It's because drunk people don't care where they piss. Until one day, in Amsterdam, someone figured out a solution: they painted a juicy fly in the middle of the urinal, right where you should target your golden shower. Everyone who came to piss there thought it was a real fly. From that day on there was no problem, everyone, drunk as they may be, tried to hit the fat fly! So when you are boxing don't just flail every which day like a drunk in the toilet not caring where you hit. The jaw of your opponent is the fly you always want to target, that's what you are looking to hit! Ok? Now we box another round and you all try to hit the fly! Also I have a purple eye and was TKO'd by a liver shot for 10 seconds (a ten count - I was worse for the wear for far longer), the liver being the other fly. gently caress livershots, you don't even black out, it just hurts. Ligur fucked around with this message at 21:50 on May 22, 2012 |
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May 22, 2012 21:39
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So after taking it easy mostly for 2 weeks to get healthy and rested, I ended up loving up my wrist on a takedown 15 minutes into class tonight. 
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May 23, 2012 01:27
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I've got a badly corked thigh after copping a strong thigh kick after trainer called time which I didn't defend. My muscles were also really tight from doing lots of squats a couple days earlier. There's no hematoma according to the doc which is a good thing. It's really sore and I can't bend it much. I guess I'll be sparring boxing for a while, practicing head movement instead of feet.
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May 23, 2012 08:29
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Kekekela posted:So after taking it easy mostly for 2 weeks to get healthy and rested, I ended up loving up my wrist on a takedown 15 minutes into class tonight. Hate it when this happens. I still haven't gone back to wrestling, the middle joint on my right hand still hasn't healed up and won't bend at all. Doctors have x-rayed it twice and confirmed nothing is broken, no clue what it is. I just wanna get back. Good luck on the wrist.
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May 23, 2012 08:55
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gregarious Ted posted:I've got a badly corked thigh after copping a strong thigh kick after trainer called time which I didn't defend. My muscles were also really tight from doing lots of squats a couple days earlier. There's no hematoma according to the doc which is a good thing. It's really sore and I can't bend it much. Slap on some liquid gold and get back in there... http://www.amazon.com/Namman-Muay-Athletes-Liniment-Kickboxing/dp/B005ESOLE4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337766692&sr=8-1
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May 23, 2012 10:51
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Is that just bengay or icy hot or what? Put a heat pack on that bitch.
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May 23, 2012 12:30
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So there might be something to this KIAI stuff. I got low kick countered right into the peroneal nerve and when my leg went numb decided to scream "WHORE" and throw a right straight instead of collapsing in a heap of pain. Dude was so flustered he didn't have time to block. So i decided to collapse after hitting him.
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May 23, 2012 19:25
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Ligur posted:A Mexican boxing coach told us this story today, after observing too many people were trying to punch the gloves, the forehead or, say, the elbows of their opponents. There's a common problem in bars: men tend to miss the urinals. There's a row of them and people miss them. Instead they piss all over the loving place, there are pools of piss on the floor. The cleaners are mad, the customers foul their shoes. It's because drunk people don't care where they piss. A lot of it from what I've seen is the people that tend to punch at the forehead or gloves are the ones afraid to get hit. Once you get over that fear you start punching at the target areas.
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May 23, 2012 19:37
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Christoff posted:Is that just bengay or icy hot or what? I guess so. I never bothered to learn exactly what it was. All I know is that it erases the pain temporarily so you can keep on training! (and get even more horribly injured)
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May 23, 2012 20:17
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Antinumeric posted:Hate it when this happens. I still haven't gone back to wrestling, the middle joint on my right hand still hasn't healed up and won't bend at all. Doctors have x-rayed it twice and confirmed nothing is broken, no clue what it is. Yeah thanks man...I've been keeping it iced and huffing advil, hoping to be back on the mat tomorrow.
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May 23, 2012 23:39
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KidDynamite posted:A lot of it from what I've seen is the people that tend to punch at the forehead or gloves are the ones afraid to get hit. Once you get over that fear you start punching at the target areas. Someone at the gym told me that you have to have a "gently caress it" moment to step up from drilling to knowing how to handle sparring. Where you're so frustrated with losing a round or getting dominated that you abandon your reservations and just go out and fight. You move forward, fire combos, get aggressive, and seek only to score. It's not how you always want to fight, but it's a good way to see what happens when you attack and mean to hit.
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May 24, 2012 07:53
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My main issue with sparring isn't so much getting hit as it is I'm a bit vary of puncing too hard. I'm pretty much still a beginner and I think I might be a bit too worried about being that spastic newbie who just goes way too hard and ends up hurting people needlessly.
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May 24, 2012 09:11
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DekeThornton posted:My main issue with sparring isn't so much getting hit as it is I'm a bit vary of puncing too hard. I'm pretty much still a beginner and I think I might be a bit too worried about being that spastic newbie who just goes way too hard and ends up hurting people needlessly. Yeah I think most people go through that, even as you get more experienced. On Tuesday one of the guys hit a little hard and was worried so he said 'oh poo poo, sorry' and dropped his hands. He got a cross in the face for his efforts. Sometimes I like drilling though, especially when you're having a poo poo day. It helps just getting your eye in.
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May 24, 2012 09:39
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