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MotoMind posted:Great reply, thank you. Friction doesn't tell the whole story on traction though. Adhesion is also important, which is why the contact patch matters, while the friction equation (F=normal*mu)would have you believe otherwise.
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May 22, 2012 03:57
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Zool posted:F=mv*v, keep your r's out of it. The rear tire has a larger contact patch, so it's capable of supporting a greater lateral load for a given normal force. The r was for calculating sideways force, which I take to be centripetal force? Anyhow, either way it looks like mass works against you, as much as it works for you in static traction. Or am I wrong? I mean, somehow road cyclists manage to make it around corners on a contact patch the size of a pin.
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May 22, 2012 05:00
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MotoMind posted:I mean, somehow road cyclists manage to make it around corners on a contact patch the size of a pin.
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May 22, 2012 14:24
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MotoMind posted:The r was for calculating sideways force, which I take to be centripetal force? Anyhow, either way it looks like mass works against you, as much as it works for you in static traction. Or am I wrong? Ah, the radius of the turn, yeah that works. Mass works for you as much as it works against you in static FRICTION, but not in adhesion, so traction is benefited by lower mass. Keep in mind that as far as static friction is concerned, the size of the contact patch is totally irrelevant. Only the normal force, and friction coefficient of the materials matter. Of course if static friction were the only thing going on the maximum acceleration would be at 1G, at the best possible time at a drag strip would be 9 seconds.
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May 22, 2012 14:54
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I just got my first bike (2008 Yamaha FZ6.) I have questions... I checked the wiki, which seems to be 404ing, and the OP doesn't really have any links to cover my questions.. I'm looking at frame sliders to get, but can't find any good reviews. Mostly, it seems people advise not to use frame sliders on the bike since there's the possibility of stripping the engine mount bolts out of the aluminum frame at higher speed falls. I plan on riding this in the parking lot a ton until I get comfortable with everything, so I'm mostly concerned (at the moment) with parking lot speed drops, and what they'd do to the bike without the sliders. Given the possibility of totaling the bike at low speed, which I assume is possible regardless of what protective accessories I apply to it, are frame sliders worth it? (Keep in mind, first bike) Is there a brand of frame sliders that is head and shoulders above the rest? What material should they be made of? (Are carbon ones just gimmicky? I couldn't care less about the appearance.) Any other general tips regarding these bikes would be very helpful.
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May 22, 2012 20:05
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I'm new to all this, so I have a dumb question. I've seen a lot of people referring to "squids". They seem to be referring to either newbies or idiots without gear. Where does this nickname come from?
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May 23, 2012 00:32
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Day Man posted:I'm new to all this, so I have a dumb question. I've seen a lot of people referring to "squids". They seem to be referring to either newbies or idiots without gear. Where does this nickname come from? Stupid Quick Under-dressed Imminently Dead
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May 23, 2012 01:02
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The only explanation for the word "squid" I've heard is that it's an acronym for "Stupid Quick Underdressed Imminently Dead". Usually young males with next to no protective gear, almost always going recklessly fast and doing stupid poo poo. Basically racers without racing skills. And on public roads. efb
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May 23, 2012 01:06
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Learn something new every day I guess.. I just thought it was a term for an idiot.
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May 23, 2012 01:18
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Thanks! I'll do my best not to be one of those. 
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May 23, 2012 01:21
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SaNChEzZ posted:Learn something new every day I guess.. I just thought it was a term for an idiot. All squids are idiots, but not all idiots are squids 
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May 23, 2012 01:22
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Zool posted:Ah, the radius of the turn, yeah that works. So if lower mass helps, what's this business with shifting weight forward when turning in? Presumably a motorcycle with 50lbs of ballast up front won't corner any better, so why would altering suspension attitude to put more weight on the front contact patch do anything?
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May 23, 2012 01:30
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Bloody Queef posted:Stupid Quick Under-dressed Imminently Dead That's a new one on me. I was certain it was short for squirrelly kid.
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May 23, 2012 02:08
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I noticed that the front wheel on my CB500T doesn't spin freely. I took this here picture. I apologize for the lovely focus, but what you might be able to see is that the brake pads are right up against the disc. Is that normal?
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May 23, 2012 02:15
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Synonamess Botch posted:That's a new one on me. I was certain it was short for squirrelly kid. Thats what i allways thought too.
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May 23, 2012 02:29
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angrytech posted:I noticed that the front wheel on my CB500T doesn't spin freely. I took this here picture. Yeah it's normal. Shouldn't have excessive drag though. You can test it by riding around your neighborhood or a parking lot easy enough to not use your front brake. Then get off the bike and feel the front disc. If it's hot like you've been using it, it's too much drag and you might need to bleed the front brake.
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May 23, 2012 02:37
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clutchpuck posted:Yeah it's normal. Shouldn't have excessive drag though. You can test it by riding around your neighborhood or a parking lot easy enough to not use your front brake. Then get off the bike and feel the front disc. If it's hot like you've been using it, it's too much drag and you might need to bleed the front brake. I actually flushed the brake line this weekend. I know Z3n mentioned in some other thread that it's possible to overfill it, but would that cause the drag when it's been sitting in a garage for 2 days?
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May 23, 2012 02:39
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MotoMind posted:Presumably a motorcycle with 50lbs of ballast up front won't corner any better, so why would altering suspension attitude to put more weight on the front contact patch do anything?
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May 23, 2012 02:49
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So how long does Bikebandit usually take to ship out an order? I bought a couple screws, bolts, and nuts from them yesterday morning, the order status hasn't moved, and now I am getting impatient because this is 2012 and I need instant gratification.
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May 23, 2012 02:59
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When you're breaking (or torquing down) the rear wheel nut on a single-sided swingarm bike, what's the best way to go? My official workshop manual says to put it in gear but that makes me nervous and confused. Confused because the torque spec for the nut is like >100ft-lb so would the engine even provide enough resistance? Stand on the brake? Shove a 2x4 between a spoke and the swingarm?
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May 23, 2012 03:13
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angrytech posted:I noticed that the front wheel on my CB500T doesn't spin freely. I took this here picture. frunksock posted:When you're breaking (or torquing down) the rear wheel nut on a single-sided swingarm bike, what's the best way to go? My official workshop manual says to put it in gear but that makes me nervous and confused. Confused because the torque spec for the nut is like >100ft-lb so would the engine even provide enough resistance?
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May 23, 2012 03:20
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Synonamess Botch posted:That's a new one on me. I was certain it was short for squirrelly kid. I've always liked the reasoning that they move like squids: fast in a straight line, but have to come to a nearly complete stop to turn.
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May 23, 2012 03:28
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clutchpuck posted:So how long does Bikebandit usually take to ship out an order? I bought a couple screws, bolts, and nuts from them yesterday morning, the order status hasn't moved, and now I am getting impatient because this is 2012 and I need instant gratification. They can take forever if the parts arent in their warehouse. Unfortunately theres no way for you to know that ahead of time
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May 23, 2012 03:30
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:Standing on the brake works. 1st gear should hold it just fine, thanks to the ratio of the gears. High gear wouldn't. I think the nut might be over-torqued. I can overcome the engine in 1st without breaking the nut. I can overcome the brake, or at least what force I can put on it with the awkwardness of the exhaust location -- I thought I had it all on -- it took a bit of grunting before the wheel started to move (I got excited and thought it was the nut moving, for a second). Though, the whole reason I'm taking off the wheel is to replace the pads and flush the fluid. I guess it's 2x4 time. 
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May 23, 2012 04:50
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frunksock posted:I think the nut might be over-torqued. I can overcome the engine in 1st without breaking the nut. I can overcome the brake, or at least what force I can put on it with the awkwardness of the exhaust location -- I thought I had it all on -- it took a bit of grunting before the wheel started to move (I got excited and thought it was the nut moving, for a second). Though, the whole reason I'm taking off the wheel is to replace the pads and flush the fluid. I guess it's 2x4 time. Have a buddy who can hold down the rear brake for you?
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May 23, 2012 04:55
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Z3n posted:Have a buddy who can hold down the rear brake for you?
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May 23, 2012 05:01
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Hang something heavy off the brake lever maybe?
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May 23, 2012 05:08
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YarPirate posted:I just got my first bike (2008 Yamaha FZ6.) I have questions... I checked the wiki, which seems to be 404ing, and the OP doesn't really have any links to cover my questions.. The issue you're reading about may be FZ6 specific or may just be general differences of opinion regarding sliders. Unfortunately opinion is divided in general terms. Detractors say that if a slider digs into soft ground or if it hits a hard stop (e.g. a curb) while sliding, it acts as a lever and bends or breaks whatever it's attached to, which may be the frame or an extrusion thereof. Proponents will say that in most cases it saves the frame or (for road bikes) very expensive plastics, and can keep the bike rideable in the interim. To prevent the slider shock-loading its mount when the bike hits (e.g. after a highside, where it may be hitting the deck with considerable force, but also in cases where there is soft ground or it hits something), any competent design of slider incorporates bolts designed to bend before the mount, so that the slider can rotate backwards. Some are also designed to allow them to crush if they're hit side-on. To my mind, unless there is something specific to the FZ6 that makes them problematic, they're worth having on a road bike for the reasons above. In most cases, if a well-designed slider hits anything hard enough to gently caress up the frame the bike is probably going to be toast anyway, whereas in a simple low-side dump where you overestimated your front tyre grip or just dropped the drat thing, a properly located slider can and will save a frame, plastics and clip-ons (if not levers and bar-ends, but that's par for the course). As I have found out on a couple of occasions. One issue I can see with the FZ is that I suspect the obvious mount for an aftermarket slider uses the skinny frame extrusion for the top rear engine mount, and people are worried about bending that. Some bikes are designed to accommodate them better than others. My (2007+) hornet had them bolted to a stamped steel bracket that was then bolted to a frame extrusion like the one on your FZ, so the stamped bracket would bend but obviously be easily removable. My Tuono has a similar setup where the (factory-supplied) sliders bolt onto the end of a long steel rod welded to a stamped bracket which is then bolted to the cases, so again the rod bends and you then just unbolt the bracket and replace. So you probably want to come to your own conclusion based on FZ forums and remembering that the internet is full of retards/conspiracy theorists. I can tell you that when I was knocked off my Hornet the slider did exactly what it was supposed to do and I was able to both ride it home and have the insurance fix the bike rather than write it off. On my old GSX-R 750, it saved the frame and the fairings when I lowsided it at a fairly large rate of knots by being too ambitious on a well-sanded (for safety!) MA on-ramp. The default and I think the original material is a plastic resin - typically Delrin (TM R!) IIRC. http://www2.dupont.com/Plastics/en_US/Products/Delrin/Delrin.html "Delrin® acetal homopolymer bridges the gap between metals and ordinary plastics with a unique combination of creep resistance, strength, stiffness, hardness, dimensional stability, toughness, fatigue resistance, solvent and fuel resistance, abrasion resistance, low wear and low friction." I would avoid weird materials and anything cheap and chinese from e-bay that may not have mounting hardware appropriate for a slider (e.g. a bolt that's not designed to bend or break correctly but has just been picked because it fits). You can see from the description above why delrin and similar plastics get used. You should be able to find some slider group tests from Ride magazine or similar on the 'web. You probably can't go far wrong with something from R&G however: http://www.rg-racing.com/browseBike/Yamaha/FZ6/2008.aspx
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May 23, 2012 06:28
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2ndclasscitizen posted:Hang something heavy off the brake lever maybe?  It still won't break. This time I measured it, the brake gives up at about 105ft-lb, which is pretty much what the nut is supposed to be torqued to, so go figure. I guess I'll have to cut a piece of wood to use tomorrow.
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May 23, 2012 07:20
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Saga posted:Frame slider stuff You can also try OES Accessories, they tend to be recommended for sliders and are a bit cheaper / less flashy than R&G tends to be. http://www.oesaccessories.com/FZ6.html is the link for the FZ6. Stay away from the generic sportbike slider kits or anything really gimmicky. I really don't get why moto makers don't integrate at least better mounting points for protection like sliders into their designs. It seems like kind of a no brainer and an obvious dealer accessory addition. Instead you end up needing to fiddle with engine mounts and sometimes cutting fairings.
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May 23, 2012 11:27
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Synonamess Botch posted:That's a new one on me. I was certain it was short for squirrelly kid. It's a backronym. The etymology of the word is lost to time.
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May 23, 2012 14:01
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Will filing down the side of the clutch lever to make it fit in the slot hurt anything at all?
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May 23, 2012 14:13
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Tenchrono posted:Will filing down the side of the clutch lever to make it fit in the slot hurt anything at all? Edit: Nvm replied in the SV thread. Z3n fucked around with this message at 15:13 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 15:02
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Z3n posted:Edit: Nvm replied in the SV thread. Got it thanks. Another question, how do I go about cleaning/lubing my chain? I dont have a center stand or one of the rear tire stands.
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May 23, 2012 16:40
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Tenchrono posted:Got it thanks.
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May 23, 2012 16:43
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Tenchrono posted:Got it thanks. Jack under the swingarm, opposite side from the sidestand. Or you can put a jack on the rear suspension linkage, which is sometimes easier if you have a floor jack.
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May 23, 2012 17:00
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Well, I took my bike over to my friends to show him it and now it wont start. It makes a rapid clicking noise when I hit the ignition and then eventually the whole bike turns off. I've tried to jump start it but it doesnt do anything either, Any help? I bought a new battery and im letting the acid sit in it right now so there are no air bubbles, Instead of a trickle charger am I able to just jump it from a car?
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May 23, 2012 21:19
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Tenchrono posted:Well, I took my bike over to my friends to show him it and now it wont start. It makes a rapid clicking noise when I hit the ignition and then eventually the whole bike turns off. I've tried to jump start it but it doesnt do anything either, Any help? I bought a new battery and im letting the acid sit in it right now so there are no air bubbles, Instead of a trickle charger am I able to just jump it from a car? No, you'll want to charge it with a trickle charger to full. How did you try and jump start it? The rapid clicking is indicative of a failed battery/low battery, so a jumper to the positive terminal and then a jumper to unpainted metal on the frame should have done it fine. Also your charging system might be screwed, do you have a multimeter?
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May 23, 2012 21:30
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Z3n posted:No, you'll want to charge it with a trickle charger to full. Alright ill go buy a multimeter and a trickle charger. I'm trying to get a way to get my bike back to my house. Yeah I tried jump starting it the way you said. Tenchrono fucked around with this message at 21:49 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 21:43
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Tenchrono posted:Alright ill go buy a multimeter and a trickle charger. I'm trying to get a way to get my bike back to my house. Yeah I tried jump starting it the way you said. kenny powerzzz fucked around with this message at 22:11 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 22:08
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