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yeah, aging depends entirely on style. Just about any kind of stout, barleywine, scotch ale, hefty belgian, or porter will age without a problem. Doesn't even have to be high abv. Barrel Aged beers are also not necessarily very expensive. When they are like $20, it's frequently because it's a large serving of a very limited batch. The single 12oz Heresy I had yesterday was only like $3 and tasted very good. Great Divide's Rumble is a wonderful barrel aged IPA that runs about $10/six. As for drainpouring... I save that for truly horrendous beers, not something that I just "don't like". It's like ordering a shot at the bar and just pouring it on the floor because you don't like Jack or something. There are plenty of ways to find out if you're likely to enjoy a particular beer (this thread being one of those ways) without dropping $9 on a bomber and pouring out the last 21oz.
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May 24, 2012 20:13
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global tetrahedron posted:Besides being gimmicky and overpriced, I've heard a lot of negative comments about Rogue Yes, there was a little discussion of Rogue's labor practices several pages back. I have no first hand experience, but their continuously posted ad on the web site's Jobs page kinda speaks for itself. e: double post oh dear
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May 24, 2012 20:15
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global tetrahedron posted:Besides being gimmicky and overpriced, I've heard a lot of negative comments about Rogue- that they are union busters, they treat employees like poo poo, they have a terrible health plan, workers are emotionally abused on the job, etc. Even that the brewery itself is really grimy and they are really lax on quality control. This is all I can find right now, there was more but that should suffice for even the biggest skeptic. Does Rogue even make any beer that's worth being excited about anyway?
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May 24, 2012 20:26
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Corbet posted:Man, you should really talk to the brewers over at Deschutes and tell them they're doing it wrong with that whole "Best AFTER" dating they put on their bottles. Yeah I hate that poo poo.
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May 24, 2012 20:47
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global tetrahedron posted:Besides being gimmicky and overpriced, I've heard a lot of negative comments about Rogue- that they are union busters, I love how that's considered an a priori bad thing. People regularly bring up in this thread how hosed up Pennsylvania's booze laws are. And they are hosed up. They're archaic, they're lovely for the consumer, they're lovely for a number of reasons. The actual historical motivation for the creation of the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board was to "discourage the purchase of alcoholic beverages by making it as inconvenient and expensive as possible." That's a direct quote from the governor responsible for its creation And every time real serious reform is attempted, it gets beaten back, by the LCB employees' union. If you were to actually abolish state control of selling alcohol, well, gee, that would be a lot of redundant and inefficient and unnecessary jobs cut from the state payroll, all those people would have to go out and interview for positions at Wegman's or something and the union won't stand for that. I *wish* this union would get busted.
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May 24, 2012 20:51
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CYBER SLIMER posted:Yeah I hate that poo poo. "Look, brewery, your beer should ONLY be made to be drank IMMEDIATELY otherwise it's BAD BEER"
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May 24, 2012 20:53
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lazerwolf posted:
Or you can do what Goose Island did and get a multi-billion dollar company to back you and then open up an entire building for barrel-aging. I have heard their current setup is a sight to behold. And now they're expanding...
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May 24, 2012 21:35
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Phanatic posted:I love how that's considered an a priori bad thing. Even from the customer perspective, Rogue has a poor strategy: it's just a bunch of random beers with only one "flagship" that isn't even very good. The most distinctive thing about their beer is that there's a person printed on every label. There is no focus and therefore no real business development. Being unable/unwilling to offer halfway decent compensation, let alone having a reputation as bad employer, means that they aren't focusing on building an experienced staff, which means they can't develop a line of quality products that keep the core of their business running. Instead, they throw resources at lovely one-off/limited run beers, far flung distribution (why I do I get Rogue in Maine?), and unnecessary expansion (see: Rogue Distillery). Those things are all great if their house is in order, but if they have to short employees to stay on top of brewing trends, well that's a business I don't care to support. Look to Great Divide and New Belgium for examples of how to run an awesome brewery, treat employees well, and offer new products only when they know they can be made well. Hell, I knew a guy at Great Divide who started there as a Hurricane Katrina refugee in 2007, and by 2011 was managing the entire bar/tasting room and had turned it into one of Denver's notable hot spots. THAT is business development. CalvinDooglas fucked around with this message at 22:14 on May 24, 2012 |
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May 24, 2012 21:58
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(I loving love the new easy multi-quote feature on this forum now...)danbanana posted:Or you can do what Goose Island did and get a multi-billion dollar company to back you and then open up an entire building for barrel-aging. I have heard their current setup is a sight to behold. And now they're expanding... When Jim Koch was on MSNBC the other morning (where he broke a glass by accidentally nailing it with a bottle of Sam Adams) he was trying to make a point about "these big beer companies, trying to sell craft beer that's not really craft - Goose Island, Shock Top, Blue Moon, it's still macro breweries..." I wished someone on the set knew a little more about the industry and could call him on his BS...it's one thing to say Blue Moon and Shock Top are corporate swill in craft clothing, but to throw GI under that same umbrella simply because of who they're owned by now seems a little shortsighted and unfair. Angry Grimace posted:Pure Hoppiness is a Double IPA which is very good (although wattershed won't agree here). I grabbed a few more bottles recently and just feel it's missing something. Perhaps my palate's got a blind spot where there's some additional dimension - I'll never say I have a terrific and reliable set of tastebuds to trump everyone else's - but after the piney punch to start, it consistently follows with a weak and flat Cascade finish. Nelson's not as "big" of a beer but it's got considerable balance for the IBUs and the Rye/Sauvin combo is a winner.
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May 24, 2012 22:21
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wattershed posted:When Jim Koch was on MSNBC the other morning (where he broke a glass by accidentally nailing it with a bottle of Sam Adams) he was trying to make a point about "these big beer companies, trying to sell craft beer that's not really craft - Goose Island, Shock Top, Blue Moon, it's still macro breweries..." Whoa. I didn't hear about that. I think a lot of people were worried about the buyout and, frankly, I think the real evaluation won't happen for 5 or so years. But as far as I can tell, they're doing the opposite of what I was worried about : instead of focusing on Honkers, 312, etc. and killing their "limited" releases, they seem to be throwing money at GI and telling them to brew more of the small batch stuff. Rumor has it that BCS is going year-round. If that happens, and assuming quality doesn't markedly suffer, then AB-InBev is doing the world a service by spreading that love allll over. Koch's (and everyone else's) issue should be with bad beer, which Goose isn't making. Again, we'll see a few years down the road but right now, it seems like all (Madame) roses.
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May 24, 2012 22:34
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Humongo-beer breweries and port makers and any other boozeries that require controlled oxidation release their stuff before its ready because it is ridiculously expensive to keep inventory of anything. Besides which, consumer aging adds in some ownership by the consumer which makes them feel all warm and fuzzy. Part of me doesn't take part because I can't help but keep coming back to the point that its just as expensive for me to age it as the maker. But I mostly don't take part because I personally prefer a fresh pale ale or weizen to a monster beer at peak aging.
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May 24, 2012 22:45
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wattershed posted:When Jim Koch was on MSNBC the other morning (where he broke a glass by accidentally nailing it with a bottle of Sam Adams) he was trying to make a point about "these big beer companies, trying to sell craft beer that's not really craft - Goose Island, Shock Top, Blue Moon, it's still macro breweries..." Jim Koch didn't say anything negative about Goose Island, he simply stated the truth - that Anheuser-Busch InBev makes beers under the Goose Island name. And they do - I believe 312 Urban Wheat is made by AB-InBev? Anchor: "The huge, scary, monolithic beer makers are now trying to pretend that they have craft beer wings and they don't call themselves Budweiser or Coors, they're some other beer that's actually made by Budweiser and Coors" Jim Koch: "Yeah, they have Goose island and Blue Moon and Shock Top, but you know, they're good beers! Y'know, it's good beer for all - and I think Sam Adams woulda loved that"
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May 24, 2012 22:47
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"Craft" is determined by the size/output AND ownership. The Brewer's Association requires independent ownership before they'll let you call yourself a Craft or Micro brewery. What Jim Koch said was true, though most of his audience was probably unaware of the distinction and took it to mean "mass produced" or cheaply made.
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May 24, 2012 22:53
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danbanana posted:Or you can do what Goose Island did and get a multi-billion dollar company to back you and then open up an entire building for barrel-aging. I have heard their current setup is a sight to behold. And now they're expanding... The problem with this kind of thing is that the moment craft beer stops expanding, either GI's prices are going to skyrocket or GI's quality will start slipping. CalvinDooglas posted:"Craft" is determined by the size/output AND ownership. The Brewer's Association requires independent ownership before they'll let you call yourself a Craft or Micro brewery. What Jim Koch said was true, though most of his audience was probably unaware of the distinction and took it to mean "mass produced" or cheaply made. The stupidest part is that it doesn't matter if it's "craft-brewed" or not. If Miller changes Miller Lite's formula to taste like Pliny the Elder, I wouldn't be pissed off that Miller's making a ton of money, I would go buy a shitload of Miller Lite. The only thing that should matter is whether its good beer or not. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 23:17 on May 24, 2012 |
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May 24, 2012 23:12
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Angry Grimace posted:The stupidest part is that it doesn't matter if it's "craft-brewed" or not. If Miller changes Miller Lite's formula to taste like Pliny the Elder, I wouldn't be pissed off that Miller's making a ton of money, I would go buy a shitload of Miller Lite. The only thing that should matter is whether its good beer or not. Take into account the business practices of the brewer as well, and I completely agree. Rogue does have some good beers, but I won't buy them until they clean up their attitude towards unions and many of their employees. In the same vein, if I have a choice between a Sierra Nevada beer and another equally-good offering, I tend towards SN because of what they have done (and continue to do) in terms of the industry, their employees, and the environment. As for Blue Moon, I have a certain amount of respect for Coors' handling of that line of beers. Blue Moon is relatively cheap, not powered by marketing, and widely-available in addition to being a decent beer that has become a gateway drug for people. Blue Moon is an approachable wit that paves the way for a whole world of Belgian styles for a lot of people. I have about a dozen regular customers that started with Blue Moon, on-tap, somewhere and are now taking home Allagash, Ommegang, Duvel, etc. Some have forsaken the lighter, tamer end of the spectrum entirely, and are buying Old Rasputin and Yeti in place the of the Michelob Ultra and the Hoegaarden that used to fill their carts. FreelanceSocialist fucked around with this message at 00:34 on May 25, 2012 |
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May 25, 2012 00:29
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FreelanceSocialist posted:
Agree with the statement that Blue Moon is a good starting place for BMC drinkers, but not powered by marketing? I see a ton of commercials for it. Of course it isnt like the regular lineup, but it does have a good amount of marketing power.
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May 25, 2012 01:04
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CalvinDooglas posted:
I've literally only drain-poured two or three beers in my entire life. I mean, chugging a bottle of Nyquil or Robitussin (I know-- super dangerous, don't do it) would be easier than drinking that entire beer (Voodoo Doughnut Maple Fuckyourself). Most beers aren't terribly offensive. They're either boring or underwhelming. Sometimes new flavors appear as it warms up, so it's okay to even finish bad beers. But this Rogue ale is the definition of a drain-pourer. Munkaboo posted:Agree with the statement that Blue Moon is a good starting place for BMC drinkers, but not powered by marketing? I see a ton of commercials for it. Of course it isnt like the regular lineup, but it does have a good amount of marketing power. Blue Moon was a big stepping stone into me trying new beers. I used to really like their Winter ale, and then I discovered Belgians, and have been trying new beers for 3 or 4 years. Blue Moon tastes like liquid soap to me, now, but I can appreciate its "gateway" properties and accessibility.
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May 25, 2012 01:12
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I think Coors tries to distance itself from Blue Moon. I'm not totally certain, but I think Blue Moon is its own brand, only "owned" by Coors. They also make/made a line of obscure stuff like a barrel aged red ale, but it was all pretty awful. And whatever happened to Budweiser American Ale? That stuff was definitely a step up from regular Bud. Angry Grimace posted:
Oh I agree entirely. The label is arbitrary to some extent and says nothing about quality. It exists pretty much to differentiate small breweries from big ones, and having a positive identity (or connotations) that customers recognize immediately is a huge asset when it comes to marketing. Really, the only thing that makes Craft/Micro different from obnoxious labels like "Artisan" is that a legitimate trade group controls its use. That said, I also try to be an ethical consumer and know where my foodstuff comes from, how it's made, etc. Labor practices are a factor, and it's why I don't shop at big-box retail places very seldom. escape artist posted:I've literally only drain-poured two or three beers in my entire life. I mean, chugging a bottle of Nyquil or Robitussin (I know-- super dangerous, don't do it) would be easier than drinking that entire beer (Voodoo Doughnut Maple Fuckyourself). If you're going to chug enough sugary slime to make you puke, at least chug the sugary slime that makes you trip balls.
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May 25, 2012 01:13
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I bought a Victory Storm King that says "enjoy by March 2017" 
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May 25, 2012 01:52
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Corbet posted:Yeah I was there, dunno how I missed you. I managed to bring a co-worker to mule. Don't know when I'll open a bottle, it's a shame it isn't a plum bomb. Welp. Had some tonight. Pretty disappointed really. Guy behind the bar told me it's Bam Noire with plums. And I didn't taste any plums.
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May 25, 2012 02:00
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Last year, PSU's local student paper ran a story about how Rogue pulled some pretty ify stuff when it took over the local campus hangout. I don't go to the school, but most of the criticism sounds familiar; high prices for mediocre quality, treated their employees like poo poo and pretty much gave them the most minimal compensation and benefits they could get away with. Recently I did some beer tasting at Rogue, I really wasn't blown away. Most of their ales has this lingering sourness to them, and really murky flavor profiles. You could tell it was an amber or an IPA, and thats about it. Also, they seem to be into gimmicks like their Chipotle Ale, which wasn't as horrific as it sounds but was quite far from "good." I think they do fairly well because of their labels and distribution channels (it is literally the only Oregon brewery you can find in DC), their beer just seemed pretty mediocre and uninspired. Widmer is pretty, but Drop Top is just too sweet/sugary for me. I enjoyed their X360 IPA at their brewbar though.
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May 25, 2012 02:08
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Munkaboo posted:Agree with the statement that Blue Moon is a good starting place for BMC drinkers, but not powered by marketing? I see a ton of commercials for it. Of course it isnt like the regular lineup, but it does have a good amount of marketing power. In the conversations I've had, every single Blue Moon drinker was "turned on" to Blue Moon by seeing the tap at the bar or through word-of-mouth. Most haven't seen the commercials. Or don't remember the commercials - which is far worse, from a marketing department perspective. More than half end up telling some variation of a story about how they saw a pint glass with a wedge of orange on the rim and ordered one out of curiosity. No talking frogs, futuristic sub-zero trains, or Clydesdale horses are involved in the decision.
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May 25, 2012 02:13
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When I was still drinking Blue Moon (say 2008 or so) I didn't see any commercials. Only recently have I begun to see the commercials. It was definitely word of mouth, living in a college town where most people drank Natty Light, and Blue Moon was the nectar of the Gods for an inexperienced beer drinker. I'd have to hide my Blue Moon whenever we had house parties.
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May 25, 2012 02:15
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Compare the most memorable Blue Moon commercial to the latest crop of Bud and Bud Platinum commercials. Or how about Coors. Or this other Coors? Notice a difference? It's not even about the beer in BMC commercials. It's purely image. Packaging. Imagined lifestyle (hello Corona commercials!).
FreelanceSocialist fucked around with this message at 02:23 on May 25, 2012 |
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May 25, 2012 02:20
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Blue Moon has been marketed intelligently, but a big part of it is to cater to educated middle class people (emphasis towards women) who until this point probably only have drank macrobrews or imported larger. Their print ads (I don't know if they still do) took their inspiration from French Impressionism which hits that market segment. It is a beer for people who don't like beer but want to try "something different" since they have heard diversity in beer styles has become a thing. It is probably ultimately a good thing since those consumers are more likely to try out actual craft brews.
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May 25, 2012 02:29
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Rave Time: Dogfish Head loving nailed it with Urkontinent. This is incredibly good and I hope the store has more when I go back tomorrow. The flavor and aroma are very similar, complex moderately sweet and loving super drinkable. Roasted hazelnut and mild cocoa make up the intro, while a mildly sweet honey takes the mid taste and the finish is a spicy Belgian yeast finish with some cherry fruity esters on the finish. Many people give Dogfish Head poo poo, but they seriously knocked it out of the park with this one. I'm not very familiar with Dubbels, but this doesn't seem like it should be classified as one, I've never encountered a Dubbel that had a pronounced coffee and cocoa flavor, then again I'm not very well versed with them.
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May 25, 2012 02:32
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ShaneB posted:"Look, brewery, your beer should ONLY be made to be drank IMMEDIATELY otherwise it's BAD BEER" I like it when you're not probated. How long will you keep this up though?  Our collab with Funky Buddha and Bluejacket is pretty awesome. It's an ode to candy bars and snacks and crap. 270 lbs of peanuts were added. It tastes like gooey peanut butter, salted caramel, licorice....some other delicious things. escape artist posted:I've literally only drain-poured two or three beers in my entire life. I mean, chugging a bottle of Nyquil or Robitussin (I know-- super dangerous, don't do it) would be easier than drinking that entire beer (Voodoo Doughnut Maple Fuckyourself). Why even finish a bad beer? What's the point? If you don't want it, why finish it? To get drunk I guess? Maybe when you're in the industry and surrounded by underwhelming beers all the time it's different. nah fucked around with this message at 02:42 on May 25, 2012 |
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May 25, 2012 02:39
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I hate that I can't get your beers here.  edit: Why finish a bad beer? Depends. I do it for tasting notes. To figure out exactly what it is that made it a bad beer. To figure out what went wrong or what could be improved. To learn something. If that isn't necessary, well, I don't finish it. I can get hosed up on whiskey, instead. FreelanceSocialist fucked around with this message at 02:46 on May 25, 2012 |
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May 25, 2012 02:42
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CYBER SLIMER posted:I like it when you're not probated. How long will you keep this up though? So are there 2 CCB goons now? I take it you are bringing the collab beer to DC on 6/7. Will you be bringing Tocabago or Zhukov/Hunahpuuuuu? 
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May 25, 2012 02:50
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Reporting back that Urkontinent is still fantastic with the 750ml gone. What a nice beer to sip and see the gradual changes throughout the temperature changes.
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May 25, 2012 03:24
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Munkaboo posted:So are there 2 CCB goons now? Nah, CYBER SLIMER is bananasinpajamas with a rename.
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May 25, 2012 04:11
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Podima posted:Nah, CYBER SLIMER is bananasinpajamas with a rename. I miss the P.F.T. avatar, though!
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May 25, 2012 04:19
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Corbet posted:And they do - I believe 312 Urban Wheat is made by AB-InBev? A big chunk of it is, yes. Not 100% of it though. They're also making some of the Honkers Ale, and both of those are good representations of the original recipes. AB's not up to par with the IPA yet, though, so we're still hammering that one out like crazy. I've heard rumblings of Bourbon County Stout going year-round, but I don't think that's happening for a while yet. We brewed a metric shitload of it over the winter and spring, though, and our barrel capacity's gotten stupidly huge. We'll have a shitload of BCS for this year's release, but I imagine it still won't be enough - demand for it is completely ridiculous. In other news, Anderson Valley's Barney Flats Oatmeal Stout is a drat fine beer, and will easily become one of my new defaults considering how widely available and inexpensive it is.
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May 25, 2012 06:28
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CYBER SLIMER posted:I like it when you're not probated. How long will you keep this up though? I like it when you continue to ignore all of the legitimate criticisms of your opinions about the ageability of beer and make ad hominem attacks against ShaneB instead. How long will you keep this up though?
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May 25, 2012 06:41
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Ubik posted:In other news, Anderson Valley's Barney Flats Oatmeal Stout is a drat fine beer, and will easily become one of my new defaults considering how widely available and inexpensive it is. It was one of the first stouts I had, and perhaps the first beer where what I read was in the beer was something I could actually taste. I realized beer could have flavors beyond 'wheaty', 'sweet,' or 'bitter'. Also, it's cheap and has awesome body for a lower-abv stout. Additionally, their tripel, I think it's called Brother David's Triple, is another one of those beers that's got great flavor for the price. Oddly enough, it seems to be all over one of our supermarket chains in southern california, right next to the Stone, one random Belgian (usually either Delirium or Chimay), and the larger-sized BMC bottles. Odd that AVBC's beers are able to find a home in that small space despite being 600 miles away.
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May 25, 2012 07:23
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I've loved everything I've ever had from Anderson Valley (somehow we get it all the way in Florida, so I'm not surprised you see it a lot in SoCal) with one glaring exception: the summer ale. The Summer Solstice Cream Ale tastes like liquified copper.
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May 25, 2012 11:58
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Perfectly Cromulent posted:I like it when you continue to ignore all of the legitimate criticisms of your opinions about the ageability of beer and make ad hominem attacks against ShaneB instead. How long will you keep this up though? As far as the aging argument, I would like to see more from CYBER SLIMER if he wants to discuss it but he may feel ganged up on. I hope it's obvious from other threads, but disagreeing with me isn't sass, it's discussion.
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May 25, 2012 14:41
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bartolimu posted:As far as the aging argument, I would like to see more from CYBER SLIMER if he wants to discuss it but he may feel ganged up on. I hope it's obvious from other threads, but disagreeing with me isn't sass, it's discussion. Ditto. I wasn't calling him out, just kind of surprised that someone associated with a well-renowned brewery has that opinion. I've heard nothing but "Yeah, age it!" from beer-smart people my whole life when it comes to certain styles.
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May 25, 2012 14:45
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Ubik posted:A big chunk of it is, yes. Not 100% of it though. They're also making some of the Honkers Ale, and both of those are good representations of the original recipes. AB's not up to par with the IPA yet, though, so we're still hammering that one out like crazy. Goose Island just came to New Jersey and I'm not sure who's making what, but I've had the IPA twice, once on tap and it was one of the best IPAs I've had in a long time. I then had a 1.5 month old bottle and I'm not sure if the bottles were mishandled or the hops fell off that fast, or what, but it was a very boring and lacking representation of what I had on tap. I assume the bottles will say where they were produced so I'll check today. I've heard the Summertime Ale is pretty much exclusively being produced in New Jersey at an AB-InBev factory though, truth?
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May 25, 2012 14:57
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Just wanted to post how much I will always love Dale's Pale Ale. Thank you, Oskar Blues. And thank you to whomever for getting my Dale's fresh into Northern VA all the time. Can't beat 4 day old Dale's.
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May 25, 2012 15:47
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