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I never realized minifigs sold for so much, relatively. I've always just put them aside or into their own little compartment. Why are they valued so highly?
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May 31, 2012 00:03
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Lego is creating toys people want to buy, that is the only motivation here. The bottom line is Lego's concern is creating toys people want to buy, not perpetuating gender stereotypes for some  motivation on which we can only speculate. This is an example of fussbugetry one finds in an affluent society. We don't have to worry about serving our primary interests of food, water, shelter etc. so we find other things to rail against. In this case, an ad posted in this thread about a toy. Focusing on the innocuous diverts our attention from actual instances of injustice. Human beings are a sexually dimorphic species. We don't need to dissect the motives of the toy maker's intentions in a thread that clearly wasn't intended for philosophical, sociological, ethical or anthropological discussion. Sometimes a toy is just a toy and not some insidious plan to inculcate our children to specious notions of non-factual sex differences. On topic: The Meijers at 12 mile and Telegraph in Michigan still has a few Series 5 (about 20 or so) left discounted to 2.99. I successfully molested out a mobster, dinosaur man and workout girl earlier. They also had 3 Pharaohs Quest Rise of the Sphinx sets marked down to $19.99.
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May 31, 2012 00:10
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Pretentious Turtle posted:I never realized minifigs sold for so much, relatively. I've always just put them aside or into their own little compartment. Why are they valued so highly? It's a couple of factors coming together, I'd imagine. LEGO is really popular, for one, and while parts are almost always going to reappear in the same mold/color in tons and tons of sets to come, most minifigs, especially licensed ones, will either never appear in another set or will appear in a dramatically different form (see: old Watto minifigures vs new ones). With that collectability behind them, and the popularity of the toys in general, you can see why demand is high. Beyond that, even people who aren't really into LEGO like minifigures, at least to a degree. I've yet to run into anyone that actively dislikes LEGO, only people who think it's beneath them because it's a toy. Seeing your favorite character or archetype presented as a minifigure can be really cool. I have always enjoyed LEGO but hadn't really thought about it for several years when I first saw the series 4 punk rocker minifigure. I immediately had to have it, bought a ton of them, etc. Eventually I got one, but at that point I was in pretty deep. Man, I thought, look at all these other awesome figures! Now I have tons of minis, along with small setpiece constructions, topping all the furniture in my room.
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May 31, 2012 00:16
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I still don't have any from Series 1.  I've finished up 2 and 7 and am working on all the rest right now but I've never even seen a Series 1.
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May 31, 2012 00:32
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Sharkelberry posted:Lego is creating toys people want to buy, that is the only motivation here. The bottom line is Lego's concern is creating toys people want to buy, not perpetuating gender stereotypes for some You don't have to be so dismissive about other people's opinions - once you start posting that you can't talk about x because you haven't dealt with y, you find that you can't discuss anything at all, which is pretty damning for a forum. Maybe what's allowed to be posted is different now we're out of GBS, but I don't think anyone intended any harm when they were discussing the gender representations in Lego (and your point isn't really helped when you mention that humans are sexually dimorphic, when the discussion was about gender, which is a social construct). As for the comment, Lego (and all other toy manufacturers / shops etc) are happy to perpetuate gender stereotypes because they make money, and why would they disrupt the status quo (even if it's arguably better for society) and risk affecting their profits? The strengthening of feminine/masculine as lines for children has come about because they work for businesses; not because they're good for society. I know it's been said before, but it's not just about girls being mired in an explosion of pink bricks (you can be a vet, but only if you have pink walls!), but it's about boys being pigeonholed as well - they're not allowed to be friends; they have to be heroes instead. Anyway, moving on - the minifigure lines have to be an absolute stroke of marketing genius. I don't know if it was Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon or what, but ever since I got back into Lego in a big way, it seems that the company is all over the press and the minifigures seemed to have played a big part in getting the company back into public consciousness. But maybe I was just walking around with my eyes closed whilst I was in my dark ages! Also, I blame this thread for me plumping for London Escape. I've been hesitating over it since it went on sale at Lego, but the shipping kept killing the deal for me - now Amazon are price matching again, and the idea of being able to build Port Royal with my Whitecap Bay has tipped it for me. My poor wallet.
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May 31, 2012 00:58
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So there's Palpatine's Arrest... I'm surprised they made a set of such a violent scene, really.
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May 31, 2012 01:05
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Just snapped some pictures of my latest microscale builds for yall. These first two are an attempt at futuristic superstructure habitations. Inspired by stuff like Blade Runner and Akira.  In the front we have Wyrm district.  And the blue build in the back is Viper Prefecture. This is just a generic fantasy castle.  Snake vines!  Comments or suggestions definitely appreciated.
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May 31, 2012 01:10
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Rare Collectable posted:This is just a generic fantasy castle. I like it, but it feels both micro and small, if that makes any sense. Can you make it 4 bricks wide instead of 8? Some aspects of it are perfect like the towers and the plants, but the flag and the openings in the back feel more like a small castle, instead of a micro castle. I don't mean any offense, just a bit of criticism based on opinion. I always get overwhelmed when I try to build micro stuff. I feel like I never have enough/the right bricks.
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May 31, 2012 01:18
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Sharkelberry posted:I like it, but it feels both micro and small, if that makes any sense. Can you make it 4 bricks wide instead of 8? Some aspects of it are perfect like the towers and the plants, but the flag and the openings in the back feel more like a small castle, instead of a micro castle. No offence taken at all! I totally get what you mean. I had no idea what it was going to end up like when I started on the foundation so in the end it ended up a bit more like a castle/cottage house thing? I dunno, but its castley. I'm also working from a small reserve of pieces, I don't have a large collection built up yet so I'm limited by what I have. Its actually part of the reason I like microscale so much, the limitations force you to be more creative. I also think I enjoyed doing the landscaping the most. Debunk This! fucked around with this message at 01:29 on May 31, 2012 |
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May 31, 2012 01:25
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Testro posted:I know it's been said before, but it's not just about girls being mired in an explosion of pink bricks (you can be a vet, but only if you have pink walls!), but it's about boys being pigeonholed as well - they're not allowed to be friends; they have to be heroes instead. People who actually believe this stuff affects kids like that boggle my mind.
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May 31, 2012 01:32
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Ever since I got Loki, I've been trying to think of something to do with his helmet. 
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May 31, 2012 01:32
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ChesterJT posted:People who actually believe this stuff affects kids like that boggle my mind. People who dismiss the impact of early learning despite all the evidence boggle mine, so we're even
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May 31, 2012 01:42
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ChesterJT posted:People who actually believe this stuff affects kids like that boggle my mind. I'm probably misinterpreting because your post is pretty vague but like... it does affect kids. Drawing these strong gender lines only serves to keep perpetuating these strong gender divides. Thus, you end up with boys obsessed with fighting and girls who think the only desirable trait in a person is beauty.
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May 31, 2012 01:44
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ChesterJT posted:People who actually believe this stuff affects kids like that boggle my mind. Growing up, I knew that if I wasn't an arctic space explorer with a giant orange chainsaw, no one would want to play with me. I was right 
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May 31, 2012 01:44
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Since we're already sort of on the subject: I've been debating starting a Cuusoo project called the 'More Friends' pack or something similar. It'd be like one of the minifig packs that Lego sells (neighborhood pack, fairy tale pack, etc.) but would feature primarily female minifigs, and minifigs representing people of color (of both genders). Frankly, looking over my Star Wars Lego sets, it's embarrassing how uniform white everybody is. I'd love to have a Rebel pilot or trooper that isn't a white dude, but since the line seems to lean that way, that's all anybody ever gets. Of course, you'd have to be careful about how you pitch it to Lego. You can't say it's the 'quit making all your minifigs white dudes' kit, so you'd obviously have a couple 'white male' minifigs to round out the 'group of friends theme'. I'm thinking it'd be a set of: 3 white male minifigs 3 white female minifigs 3 black male minifigs 3 black female minifigs 3 'light middle' male minifigs 3 'light middle' female minifigs 3 'dark middle' male minifigs 3 'dark middle' female minifigs I'm only saying the 'light middle' and 'dark middle' because I don't know what Lego calls the flesh tones like in the Indiana Jones/Prince of Persia sets, or in the old NBA sets. It'd just be nice to have a little diversity to round out my plastic ranks. Hell, I'd even settle for a pack of just female figs in the yellow Lego skin (since the yellow represents 'all people' or whatever the defense was), just anything to keep the playset from becoming a massive white bro sausage fest. PKMN Trainer Red fucked around with this message at 02:08 on May 31, 2012 |
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May 31, 2012 01:48
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Sockser posted:I'm probably misinterpreting because your post is pretty vague but like... it does affect kids. Drawing these strong gender lines only serves to keep perpetuating these strong gender divides. Thus, you end up with boys obsessed with fighting and girls who think the only desirable trait in a person is beauty. I was more speaking to the part of the post I quoted that acted like kids follow things they see on a toy box like a robot, and anyone who has kids knows that isn't true. That's not to say it has no effect on kids but nowhere near as strong as some people make it out to be. Kids will grow up and be whatever and whoever they want to be regardless if they saw a Lego figure doing it or not. InfinEight posted:Growing up, I knew that if I wasn't an arctic space explorer with a giant orange chainsaw, no one would want to play with me. I never got to be a spaceman 
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May 31, 2012 01:53
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Testro posted:The way Lego is set up is male = neutral, female = other.  PKMN Trainer Red posted:Frankly, looking over my Star Wars Lego sets, it's embarrassing how uniform white everybody is. This too. If religion factored at all into Lego the default would be Christian and the Western Hegemony Trifecta would be complete. I can't blame Lego for falling into this trap because it's easy as hell to do and they're far from the only offender, and I suppose it's a natural result of moving away from neutral smilies with yellow skin. (Sort of similarly, I'd have gotten a kick out of the Space Police III line using a few aliens as cops and humans as bad guys. But nope the guy with tentacles on his head always has to be the baddie ) Your Cuusoo idea is great by the way.
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May 31, 2012 02:12
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Saint Sputnik posted:I suppose it's a natural result of moving away from neutral smilies with yellow skin. Sincerely a big part of why I think moving away from the old school faces was a bad idea, to be honest. Although I don't think you can blame lego for the fact that every face we saw in star wars was white.
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May 31, 2012 02:17
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Arnold of Soissons posted:the fact that every face we saw in star wars was white. Or that every protagonist in the POTC sets is white while almost every single antagonist is dark skinned. I can agree that more entrenched gender/racial norms is a bad thing, but friends isn't inherently evil by marketing to girls. Different genders want different things, Lego did the research and found that this is much closer to what the majority of girls want.
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May 31, 2012 02:22
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I dont think anybody is arguing that Lego is the architect of this terrible racist/sexist problem and they're sitting in some gothic castle in Denmark plotting some evil scheme. They're a symptom of a much larger societal problem but there's no reason we can't discuss steps we'd like to see Lego take to do a little better with the small part of society they have control over. Sure we can say "Lego's just doing what sells, that's just how it is" but unless people challenge "how it is" nothing's gonna get better.
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May 31, 2012 02:50
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Travis343 posted:I dont think anybody is arguing that Lego is the architect of this terrible racist/sexist problem and they're sitting in some gothic castle in Denmark plotting some evil scheme. They're a symptom of a much larger societal problem but there's no reason we can't discuss steps we'd like to see Lego take to do a little better with the small part of society they have control over. But is Lego really the best target for that? I can name so many other products or forms of advertising that do the exact same thing, yet Lego has been getting shat on by every feminist blog in existance since Friends was created. It seems like a misplacement of their effort, since like you say, its a symptom of societal issues. Raging against Lego of all companies isn't just like fighting the smoke while ignoring the fire, its ignoring the smoke too and just raging against the vaguely burnt smell hanging in the air.
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May 31, 2012 02:59
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Flavor Bear posted:So there's Palpatine's Arrest... That Mandalorian fighter is sick. Any word on series 8? If Lego took a break from minifig mystery packs for awhile, my wallet would be appreciative. Up to 7 space marines and 5 aztecs though. Also, while we can rag on Lego for the gender ratios in sets, I'd argue that you can't blame them much for the license sets. Dunno how much of a pain it would be to say to LucasArts "Hey, lets make a few random soldiers dark skinned" and they definitively couldn't do that with the clones.
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May 31, 2012 02:59
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Flavor Bear posted:So there's Palpatine's Arrest... It's like a Jedi Knight booster pack, and will fetch $$$$$.
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May 31, 2012 03:01
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ZarathustraFollower posted:Also, while we can rag on Lego for the gender ratios in sets, I'd argue that you can't blame them much for the license sets. Dunno how much of a pain it would be to say to LucasArts "Hey, lets make a few random soldiers dark skinned" and they definitively couldn't do that with the clones. Oh, absolutely not, that's exactly it. Star Wars is a pretty drat white trilogy. I mean, you've got Lando, and... the guy with the ice cream maker in Cloud City, and... Mace Windu in the prequels I guess? That's why I'm thinking it'd be nice to just get a few more options so that maybe you can have an African-American or an Indian or an Asian Jedi without them having 'sci-fi space horns' or 'mysterious facial tattoos' or anything. I'm thinking I might go ahead with the Cuusoo. I'll post a link once I've got something.
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May 31, 2012 03:17
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$90-120 so I won't be biting until it gets a serious discount and even then. The "new" minifigures are really barely new either they got a cape or new face to count as new. Much like how the boba fett for the skiff this summer is "new" because his shoulder cape is tan instead of dark red. The 3 fighters being released this summer are all sick, I am really looking forward to the sith fighter even with the retarded price tag.
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May 31, 2012 03:19
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Rare Collectable posted:But is Lego really the best target for that? I can name so many other products or forms of advertising that do the exact same thing, yet Lego has been getting shat on by every feminist blog in existance since Friends was created. It seems like a misplacement of their effort, since like you say, its a symptom of societal issues. Raging against Lego of all companies isn't just like fighting the smoke while ignoring the fire, its ignoring the smoke too and just raging against the vaguely burnt smell hanging in the air. Caring about social inequity isn't a zero-sum game. Somebody can make a few posts about Lego in a thread about Lego and then go on to do more, elsewhere. Also somebody can write an article about feminism and Lego on a feminism blog, that doesn't mean that raging against Lego is suddenly the only feminism-related effort they're doing. If people are offended by Friends, the thing to do is try to understand why, not brush off any criticism of your favorite toy company with "It's just a toy, there are more important things happening in the world." You've got absolutely no reason to think that people who care about gender and race representation in children's toys don't also care about it elsewhere in society.
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May 31, 2012 03:23
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Merchant of Death posted:$90-120 so I won't be biting until it gets a serious discount and even then. The "new" minifigures are really barely new either they got a cape or new face to count as new. Much like how the boba fett for the skiff this summer is "new" because his shoulder cape is tan instead of dark red. If we're bitching about character Legos again, I really want to say how much I hate the new Jabba. The constant progression away from a Lego aesthetic and toward a realistic small action figure aesthetic is really irksome. It's a problem with minifigs like Boba Fett (original version vs. new version), but at least he retains the same basic silhouette of a minifig (except for the over-detailed helmet). Jabba is basically an action figure with lego-compatible hands. Ehhh I haven't really given a poo poo about Star Wars minifigs since they went fleshy, but I can't believe how far they are sliding downhill.
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May 31, 2012 03:31
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Why cookie Rocket posted:If we're bitching about character Legos again, I really want to say how much I hate the new Jabba. The constant progression away from a Lego aesthetic and toward a realistic small action figure aesthetic is really irksome. It's a problem with minifigs like Boba Fett (original version vs. new version), but at least he retains the same basic silhouette of a minifig (except for the over-detailed helmet). Jabba is basically an action figure with lego-compatible hands. The worst part to me about the flesh coloured skin tones was that now speeder bike troopers don't have the best sunglasses. http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=3626bpse
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May 31, 2012 03:37
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The only real problem I see with criticism of Friends is that too much backlash is probably a lot more likely to encourage Lego Group to abandon all efforts to reach a female audience instead of convincing them to refocus on gender-neutral sets.
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May 31, 2012 03:59
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Saint Sputnik posted:
This completely. Does anyone else see this as being almost racist in a way? It creates the sense that anyone who is not the norm (yellow LEGO minifigs) is instantly the bad guy. I know it's a stretch, but it implants the notion in the minds of children that anyone that does not look like you must be 'bad'. I really wish there was an inclusive LEGO theme, one that had LEGO minifigs and 'the other' working together.
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May 31, 2012 04:29
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Project submitted and pending review. They say it'll be about 72 hours -- we'll see how accurate that ends up being. Honestly, it would be super rad if Space Police IV ends up having all sorts of aliens as pals. The aliens are the coolest figures in those sets anyway. 
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May 31, 2012 04:50
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Anyone know when they will be putting the new city construction sets up on legos website to buy? I'd rather not pay TRU for them
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May 31, 2012 05:01
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Pirate Ken posted:This completely. Does anyone else see this as being almost racist in a way? It creates the sense that anyone who is not the norm (yellow LEGO minifigs) is instantly the bad guy. I know it's a stretch, but it implants the notion in the minds of children that anyone that does not look like you must be 'bad'. I really wish there was an inclusive LEGO theme, one that had LEGO minifigs and 'the other' working together. Atlantis was the same right?
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May 31, 2012 06:49
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Sharkelberry posted:Human beings are a sexually dimorphic species. We don't need to dissect the motives of the toy maker's intentions in a thread that clearly wasn't intended for philosophical, sociological, ethical or anthropological discussion. And yet.... here you are with an opinion on the topic discussing it. Perhaps if you don't want a topic discussed you shouldn't do that thing thing snd spare us the lectures. Declaring a derail over in the same post you share your opinion on the same topic is kind of just an attempt to get the last word in. quote:Sometimes a toy is just a toy and not some insidious plan to inculcate our children to specious notions of non-factual sex differences. By intention or design you've managed to completely miss the issues people actually have in (in this thread at any rate} in favour of a manufactured one. This is one of the reasons this topic annoys me so much. People just flat out making stuff up rather than actually taking the time to read and attempt to understand another point of view. I suspect most people you're arguing against actually agree with most of what you're saying here, especially with regards to TLG's motivations. I kow I do, As a GBS mod you'd think I'd be used to this... I have no idea why I expect AFOLs to be "better" in this respect! Gravy Jones fucked around with this message at 07:31 on May 31, 2012 |
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May 31, 2012 06:58
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Can I just say I didn't want to kick off another debate about Lego's role in gender isolation, I just thought it was a funny image taken to debatable extremes which just made it even more entertaining? On an unrelated note, I happened to catch this today.  Maybe it is related, I'm not sure Commander Cold was raised properly.
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May 31, 2012 07:28
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ChesterJT posted:I was more speaking to the part of the post I quoted that acted like kids follow things they see on a toy box like a robot That isn't what I was saying. Honestly, it's pointless trying to make a balanced point on the internet - you either end up with 40 paragraphs ensuring that you've covered every aspect or you make a shorter post and people deliberately misinterpret what you're saying. I wasn't suggesting that children play in black and white terms - but at the same time, when the message is consistently black and white, some children start to take on elements of those messages. Read yesterday's posts - someone remarked on their child doing exactly this. I find it offensive that by suggesting that I don't feel Lego has it exactly right just yet means - in your eyes - that I don't understand the nuances of children's play. I assure you that I do.
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May 31, 2012 08:23
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Captain Invictus posted:Atlantis was the same right? Atlantis was a bit excusable I think because if anything, the humans were the villains of the line. Going down into the deep ocean to pillage a native people's treasures? It's not really something you'd expect the fish monsters to start helping them with. Space Police is weird because Lego does Star Wars, where the weird aliens are on both sides of the conflict along with humans on both sides, so you know they've at least been introduced to the idea.
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May 31, 2012 13:25
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InfinEight posted:Can I just say I didn't want to kick off another debate about Lego's role in gender isolation, I just thought it was a funny image taken to debatable extremes which just made it even more entertaining? I loving love that rex of yours. You wouldn't happen to have a .LXF of it would you?  I would love to get a slightly closer loot at it in the LDD.
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May 31, 2012 13:30
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Sharkelberry posted:I loving love that rex of yours. You wouldn't happen to have a .LXF of it would you? I'm not familiar with the LDD but would that give a parts list? I figure it'd be much cheaper to build that over time than that badass Metal Gear Rex statue.
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May 31, 2012 14:24
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Travis343 posted:Atlantis was a bit excusable I think because if anything, the humans were the villains of the line. Going down into the deep ocean to pillage a native people's treasures? It's not really something you'd expect the fish monsters to start helping them with. Atlantis, and other themes like Mars Mission, bring up the issue of colonialism in LEGO. Why are there so many sets where 'the good guys' are colonizing other peoples? And what sort of an effect could this have on the development of children? The basic theme of these sets revolves around LEGO minifigs traveling to a new area, fighting the indigenous species, and taking their resources. It's also apparent in themes like Adventurers, Pharaoh's Quest, and Power Miners. Rock Raiders are kinda an exception, since they crash landed on the planet and had to mine the natural resources of the planet to rebuild their ships (according to the themes mythos). On a more lighthearted note, has anyone ever noticed that 5976 - River Expedition http://brickset.com/detail/?Set=5976-1 is basically Heart of Darkness?
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May 31, 2012 15:00
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