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e: Never mind, posted this to Tech Support Fort like I've should in the first place.
Hob_Gadling fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Jun 4, 2012 |
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Jun 4, 2012 08:28
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Awkward Turtle posted:I'm back! With an almost completely different recording process, doing multiple takes of commentary, actual editing, and a new angle! Hopefully the videos will be less poo poo this time maybe? Yeah, gotta agree with Seedy that you're still talking over dialogue that would be better off heard (Bobby Zilch coming out of the tank, for example), and yeah I prefer your solo commentary, your co-commentator is kind of annoying ("the developers are lazy"? lots of long, dramatic sighs? not funny). But you do also go on and repeat yourself and drag things out in your bunnyhopping video, you might want to keep an eye on that. Still loads better than the co-commentary. You sounded a little nervous though. I do like the idea of covering the little glitches and odd things that're in Psychonauts, I was finding what you were pointing out very interesting. kloudtana posted:
I haven't watched your movies, so this is just a minor nitpick: I don't see any reason that update images need to be so big. It breaks tables on smaller resolutions, and has no practical or aesthetic benefit in being that size.
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Jun 4, 2012 08:38
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Seedy Wizard posted:Judging from this, I'd say you could probably do a much better job LPing this by yourself. Pretty much this, the other guy isn't adding anything entertaining or informative. Though you might want to speak a bit louder or turn your mic up when recording (watch out that you don't end up with a bunch of background noise if you do the latter) since you're almost being overshadowed by the game audio.
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Jun 4, 2012 10:39
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Awkward Turtle posted:I'm posting the second video instead of the first one here because it actually has a glitch in it, but I have the first one edited already if people want to see that too. Your co-commentor is horrible, get rid of him. Nothing you have to say is as interesting as the dialogue, don't talk over it. The second video is better but a longer than it needs to be, that's not a massive problem so I'd say that is the way to go. Seriously though get rid of that other guy he made the video unwatchable kloudtana posted:This ain't your grandpappy's GTA clone: Let's Play Saint's Row the Third! Okay for starters you didn't actually write an OP, that's not a good start. Also, is there any reason to have two seperate POV videos? It's not like the game is any different in co-op, either pick which one is better or edit them together or something. I don't care about either of you so I give literally no shits who's recording I'm watching. The commentary isn't bad, but either you recorded it live or you're way to attached to pointing out what's happening on screen. Saints Row co-op is fun as hell to actually play, but honestly it's a pretty rubbish way to show off the game. Might be worth taking into consideration
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Jun 4, 2012 10:49
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Psycho Serum posted:Okay for starters you didn't actually write an OP, that's not a good start. Also, is there any reason to have two seperate POV videos? It's not like the game is any different in co-op, either pick which one is better or edit them together or something. I don't care about either of you so I give literally no shits who's recording I'm watching. The commentary isn't bad, but either you recorded it live or you're way to attached to pointing out what's happening on screen. We played around with a few different ideas and are still open to different ways to show off the game in co-op. That's pretty much the way we're determined to do the LP. The other option we have considered is some editing between the 2 points of view if something especially silly happens to the other player. Another option is to rotate the POV each update. And yes we recorded the audio live. MissEchelon posted:I haven't watched your movies, so this is just a minor nitpick: I don't see any reason that update images need to be so big. It breaks tables on smaller resolutions, and has no practical or aesthetic benefit in being that size. Fair enough. I actually have a few other nitpicks with it as well and we'll be sure to iron those out when we get to the thread proper. edit: ↓ yeah that's probably what we're gonna do. kloudtana fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Jun 4, 2012 |
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Jun 4, 2012 11:13
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kloudtana posted:We played around with a few different ideas and are still open to different ways to show off the game in co-op. That's pretty much the way we're determined to do the LP. The other option we have considered is some editing between the 2 points of view if something especially silly happens to the other player. Another option is to rotate the POV each update. And yes we recorded the audio live. Out of those options the best would be using editing to just show when something happens, but honestly I would say to just use yours. His video doesn't look as good and is a lot a choppier. It's distracting.
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Jun 4, 2012 11:54
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Rirse posted:Any plans for your jump cuts to show up in this LP at some point? There is some backtracking involved in this game so I'll use some jump cuts to edit out that (as long as the backtracking doesn't involve collecting an item we haven't gotten yet, in which case I will highlight that item).
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Jun 4, 2012 13:00
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MeccaPrime posted:There is some backtracking involved in this game so I'll use some jump cuts to edit out that (as long as the backtracking doesn't involve collecting an item we haven't gotten yet, in which case I will highlight that item). Can you use jump cuts over the cut scenes? Pleeeeease? 
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Jun 4, 2012 13:04
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You know, at one point I did consider cutting the cutscenes altogether, but then I realized that some people might be following this LP as a guide and considering this is a 100% run, I felt it would take a chunk out of the presentation if I did that. So, unfortunately, you will have to suffer just as I have had to suffer (or you could skip ahead a few seconds at a time until the horror is all over). But seriously, after the first mission where they're telling you everything every three minutes, there isn't as much dialogue/cutscenery.
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Jun 4, 2012 13:08
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If you're using Youtube you can use annotations to let people skip the cutscenes if they want.
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Jun 4, 2012 13:23
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Dragoon Cody posted:If you're using Youtube you can use annotations to let people skip the cutscenes if they want. I have annotations turned off on YouTube, I usually just put a subtitle somewhere with a rough time to skip to. But Fusion cutscenes are short enough that you don't really need to annotate.
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Jun 4, 2012 13:53
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kloudtana posted:We played around with a few different ideas and are still open to different ways to show off the game in co-op. That's pretty much the way we're determined to do the LP. The other option we have considered is some editing between the 2 points of view if something especially silly happens to the other player. Another option is to rotate the POV each update. And yes we recorded the audio live. Why are you set on co-op, though? I'm not sure it's that bad of an idea, but a better explanation than "Well, that's how we roll," is usually appreciated. The current thing you've got going on doesn't really work (no one is going to watch both, or care which one to pick). The other options you propose have issues: editing between the two at appropriate points sounds like a good idea, but you also increase your workload, and it may cause the video to be disorienting. Switching off on whose recording you use would be easier, but I don't really see the point, then. Your commentary wasn't bad, but you guys seem awkward. Have you done live commentary before? Also, you spend too long in the menu before you begin the game, explaining characters that we're about to meet. The commentary was actually really bad there; I would have closed the window if I wasn't trying to evaluate the video.
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Jun 4, 2012 15:29
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The main reason for doing 2 points of view in a co-op game is when the two players have very different play styles. As an example, if one person is extremely aggressive and will constantly get the pair into trouble by shooting a gang member who looked at them funny and the other is extremely focused and is totally unflappable until the mission starts, that's a good ground for having two videos. There are a lot of other examples: a tendency to split up and get into mischief, divide and conquer tactics, whatever have you. I'm unable to watch your video right this minute, but unless you can see yourself yelling "WHAT THE gently caress DID YOU DO" or splitting up to take down your enemies ala Burn Notice roughly every episode you're probably not adding a lot of value by having the second POV. Alternatively you could just record anyway and then make the decision at the end of the recording session whether you guys saw enough different stuff to make it worthwhile. If you ARE doing something where you think a second POV will be valuable, consider setting up a link to Youtube Doubler with your videos. If you decide to do this, you'll want to take a few things into consideration: 1) With the way Doubler sets things up, an HD video is absolutely vital. The bitrate Youtube gives you on SD videos is simply not good enough. You should be recording at 720p, minimum, and use URL arguments to make youtube prefer the HD videos over its SD versions. 2) Consider making an unlisted, silent copy of one of the videos so you don't blast your viewer with noise. They are almost certainly just going to mute one video anyway so you might as well save them the step. You can do this by re-muxing one of the videos with a silent sound reel. I don't recommend trying to make everything sync up; even if you do it (which is a lot of work), it still sounds really overwhelming to have two copies of a game playing at once. e: Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Why are you set on co-op, though? I'm not sure it's that bad of an idea, but a better explanation than "Well, that's how we roll," is usually appreciated. Now, whether or not this is the best way of presenting the game is another discussion. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Jun 4, 2012 |
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Jun 4, 2012 15:52
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MeccaPrime posted:OBJECTION! Let's Play Metroid Fusion [100% Hard Mode] I don't get the title... Also, you've got frame skip set to something other than 0, set it to 0 so the transparency effects aren't all screwy. (though that will only help the blip version, YouTube resets everything to 30fps anyway) EDIT: vvv Derp  I knew that, it just didn't click.
SatansBestBuddy fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jun 4, 2012 |
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Jun 4, 2012 16:17
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SatansBestBuddy posted:I don't get the title... A character in the Metroid series has a habit of asking if Samus has any objections.
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Jun 4, 2012 16:31
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Whoof, I didn't mean to raise such a stink in this thread, I mean it!  Okay so I've had a nap and some time to think and taken everything people have said into consideration. Here's what I've come up with: Videos will be from my POV. If something really worth noting pops up, we can always make bonus videos. The multi-POV idea, while novel, was not one of my better ones, I get it. I understand what y'all are saying, I sure wouldn't watch the same LP twice, no mater who was doing it. Why we want to do multiplayer: The two main focuses of this game are the mayhem and the focus on your character you've made. With two players both are multiplied twofold, essentially. My original idea is that after character creation, the viewer would choose the character they liked more and watch those videos for that experience. There are a lot of voice clips in this game as well, and it would be great to show off as much of them as possible, if possible. Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Also, you spend too long in the menu before you begin the game, explaining characters that we're about to meet. Actually the reason I did that, though i didn't do it as well as I would have liked, is that the game assumes you know these characters already. When (if?) we re-record, I'll try to do that part better. Also yes, it's our first time trying live recording. I'd like to preserve the raw reactions to crazy crap happening. Coolguye posted:Now, whether or not this is the best way of presenting the game is another discussion. Pretty much this at this point. If you guys really don't think it would be the best way to do the game I think it may be best left to someone else. Thanks a lot for all your input so far though. 
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Jun 4, 2012 16:39
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SatansBestBuddy posted:Also, you've got frame skip set to something other than 0, set it to 0 so the transparency effects aren't all screwy. (though that will only help the blip version, YouTube resets everything to 30fps anyway) It's already set to 0; the Blip and downloaded versions will reflect this. I only have the Youtube mirror up for review purposes.
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Jun 4, 2012 16:51
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MeccaPrime posted:You know, at one point I did consider cutting the cutscenes altogether, but then I realized that some people might be following this LP as a guide and considering this is a 100% run, I felt it would take a chunk out of the presentation if I did that.
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Jun 4, 2012 17:57
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kloudtana posted:Pretty much this at this point. If you guys really don't think it would be the best way to do the game I think it may be best left to someone else.
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Jun 4, 2012 18:04
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If you're gonna do go co-op I'd just transition from one point of view to the next depending on which one is the most entertaining at the moment. The best LPs that have done this tend to have some sort of frame for the transition that make sure the view knows who the new person that they're viewing is. Like they add a reddish tint around the frame of the video initially for when switching to one player and blue for the other, or something like that.
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Jun 4, 2012 19:08
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The only reason to do SR3 as single player is if you are doing an informative run. I haven't watched the video yet, but it sounds like that is the farthest thing from what you want do. As Coolguye said there are several ways to do the multiple POV thing, whether having transitions or two separate videos is all up to you, but the L4D lp and the Fear 3 lp are good references.
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Jun 4, 2012 19:55
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SR3 in coop is the right way to do it (pretty much every game built to be played in coop should be LPed in coop in my opinion), but yeah, two POVs is wholly unnecessary, especially considering both of you two are probably going to be in the same area doing the same thing more often than not (otherwise what's the point of a coop LP?). I appreciate the idea of person A having this playstyle and person B having this other playstyle but if they're doing poo poo six feet away from each other there's no reason for two videos at all.
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Jun 5, 2012 00:45
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Brainamp posted:The only reason to do SR3 as single player is if you are doing an informative run. I haven't watched the video yet, but it sounds like that is the farthest thing from what you want do. As Coolguye said there are several ways to do the multiple POV thing, whether having transitions or two separate videos is all up to you, but the L4D lp and the Fear 3 lp are good references.
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Jun 5, 2012 06:28
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kloudtana posted:Actually the reason I did that, though i didn't do it as well as I would have liked, is that the game assumes you know these characters already. When (if?) we re-record, I'll try to do that part better. Also yes, it's our first time trying live recording. I'd like to preserve the raw reactions to crazy crap happening. Just talk about it in the OP, then. No need for it to be in the video if it breaks the flow.
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Jun 5, 2012 09:39
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Um, hi. Don't hit me or anything, but I'm on the brink of starting my first LP (Omikron: The Nomad Soul) and I just wanted to know, what would you guys consider an acceptable image count and/or length for an update? Right now I'm thinking 60-odd each, but I did a test run (http://lpix.org/sslptest/index.php?id=2093) and that amount seems kind of insubstantial. Then again, this is the very beginning of the game, and I've seen it many times before, so it might just be me that's bored. Either way I'm probably going to mess with it for a week or two before I actually post it and play through the game one more time to make sure I don't gently caress anything up. I'm thinking I might have to use videos for the dialogue tree tomfoolery, because there's a shitload of it (Bioware levels) and I don't want to spend entire updates on a single conversation; not to mention this game has drat good voice acting and I feel like I shouldn't cheat people out of it if I can help it, but the non-talkey bits are more suited to screenshot format. Also, are the pictures too big? Am I not putting enough space between them? Too much?
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Jun 5, 2012 12:42
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Saucy! posted:Um, hi. Don't hit me or anything, but I'm on the brink of starting my first LP (Omikron: The Nomad Soul) Ah, great game. Flawed game, but great game nonetheless. It's best to stop updates when you feel you're at a good stopping point, not when you hit some arbitrary number of screenshots. This'll be particularly important with Omikron since, as you point out in your test post, it wastes no time getting what the gently caress and doesn't much let up from there. You end the first post on a good note, so you're fine there. If you feel it's insubstantial just commit yourself to a more frequent update schedule. Your other fundamentals look fine. Screenshots are in JPG, 800x600 is a good size for them, and you don't feel the need to artificially inject snarkiness after each screenshot. It might be good to add a test of how you're going to handle the longer conversations, though; Omikron has a tendency to drop a big old plot bomb on you at times and that's going to be interesting to try to handle. A lot of people who read screenshot LPs are either unwilling or unable to look at any videos at all, so some sort of sum-up will probably be necessary.
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Jun 5, 2012 13:26
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The problem isn't so much the number of screenshots (which would be about fine) as the fact that you're using a screenshot for everything. For example, you have eight near-identical screenshots at the start where the premise of the game is being explained. Use one screenshot, and transcribe the rest of the text (if you can find a game script somewhere, this will be much less tedious). You also have three screenshots in which you pick up random provisions. Are they really necessary? If so, why? A game is an interactive experience but an LP (for the most part) isn't. Therefore, some things which are part of a game do not need to be part of the LP. This is a good example. Why are you doing this? Presumably, because of the story and the innovative approach the game has - neither of which are conveyed to us by screenshots of save points or consumables. Equally, where you're using a bunch of screenshots to convey an animated sequence, you could replace them with a single animated GIF. There's tutorials for how to do this in the Tech Support Fort if you need them. Always ask yourself: is this screenshot really necessary? As for the use of video for conversations and so on - the semi-standard approach is to transcribe the dialogue in screenshot format and then upload a video for people who want to check out the voice acting (see, for example, how Feinne does this in his Persona 3 Portable LP). You should probably be recording video anyway since that's easily the best way to get the right screenshots, so it's not much extra work.
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Jun 5, 2012 13:27
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That's pretty sage. I do like the .gif idea, although I'd have to be cautious about overusing it and creating an eyesore. The only reason the opening part has so many screenshots is because the stupid subtitles are always about two lines too long to fit on a single page. I thought about just finishing them in text, but didn't; in retrospect it's probably a better route than what I ended up with, although a very slow, gentle .gif alternating between the top and bottom of the scrolls would probably do the trick just as well and take up the least space. I don't quite remember if the later dialogues do the same thing or not, but it's probably a good thing to learn how to do just in case. Anyway, thanks guys, I'll get to work with video captures and the like and see you in a few weeks probably! Saucy! fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Jun 5, 2012 |
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Jun 5, 2012 14:30
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Yeah, the biggest hazard with using .gifs is being jarring. You have absolutely no guarantees which shot your gif will be on when your reader gets there and to be truthful I have yet to see a really good use of animated gifs that neatly handles this presentation problem. There are many presentations that succeed in spite of it, but none that succeed because of it. It might take up less space, but it requires your reader to stop and figure out what goes before what, which isn't really a great idea. Text transcription is probably better if you're not big on letting the screenshots tell the story. You can get transcription from the screenshots quickly if you take the time to set up gOCR and ImageMagick correctly, but ToxicFrog ties it all together with a Linux bash script, which some people have difficulty working with. If Linux doesn't scare you, you can use cygwin to get the bash functionality on Windows, though, which is where you'd be playing Omikron in the first place. I keep trying to make a Powershell script for native Windows functionality, but Powershell really blows so it's hard to get everything to the point where I'd consider it usable by your average LPer. Anyway, I have to disagree that the screenshots of mechanics and such aren't required simply because it helps keep the reader engaged later on. Mechanics are still important to communicate in an LP because you're still showing off the game. There's a possible exception for all this if you're doing a real balls to the wall narrative where you're taking liberties anyway. Presenting things like consumables allows you to say something like "Yeah I got my rear end kicked here but after chowing down on snacks and beer I was okay again so we moved on". Also Saucy, for your benefit, some of the people most experienced with screenshot LPs on this subforum recommend simply recording everything you do in Fraps and extracting screenshots from it later; it reduces a lot of the stress of trying to get the right screenshots while you're, you know, preoccupied with playing the loving game.
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Jun 5, 2012 14:47
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Look around online for a text dump. Otherwise, just poke around in the game files with a hex editor, and search for some text you know is in the game. Chances are there's a text dump somewhere.
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Jun 5, 2012 15:00
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The best rule of thumb is to stop when there's a natural stopping point (end of an important conversation, major area change, objective completed, etc.). If that doesn't happen, make the judgement call yourself. If you're struggling to bring something to an end, there's nothing wrong with splitting a lengthier post in half and making a double update to bring it to a more natural conclusion. Hell, people will probably compliment you for such speedy updating 
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Jun 5, 2012 15:08
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Coolguye posted:Also Saucy, for your benefit, some of the people most experienced with screenshot LPs on this subforum recommend simply recording everything you do in Fraps and extracting screenshots from it later; it reduces a lot of the stress of trying to get the right screenshots while you're, you know, preoccupied with playing the loving game. Yeah, I actually had to start a new game about three times before I got all the screenshots I wanted, and I still couldn't capture Crabguy actually making contact when he hit me. That's why that part is two images; if you just looked at one of those, his model is so weird and twisty that you can't even tell wtf he's doing, especially in the second one where his body appears to have turned inside-out.That plays hell on organizing them, since the ones I took last'd sometimes be very early chronologically, and of course I don't want to keep re-loading saves and watching scenes over and over again while mashing F1 and hoping I get what I'm after. I guess pulling screenshots from videos is something that gets beat into you pretty quick, because I'm sure as poo poo not doing the whole game the retarded way. Saucy! fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Jun 5, 2012 |
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Jun 5, 2012 15:32
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If you use AvsPmod to extract your screenshots, their default name becomes framenumber.bmp, which makes them easy to put in chronological order. Also, and this may not apply to you, but when I did my first SSLP, I gradually got more comfortable with making updates and my updates slowly got longer as I went. Looking back on it, I don't like that I did that. You might want to keep an eye out for it as you proceed.
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Jun 5, 2012 17:55
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[VLP] Time Slows Down Whenever You're Around: Let's Play Stranglehold!  About the Game This relatively little-known game came out back in 2007. It's the sequel to John Woo's 1992 Hong Kong action movie, Hard Boiled. It might seem odd that a video game is the sequel to a movie, but it was actually directed by John Woo, and features Hard Boiled start Chow Yun-Fat as the main character, Tequila, once again. The game is packed with John Woo style. It's all about standoffs, time dilation, and destructible environments, and it does all of these well. All in all, it's a solid action game that really didn't get enough recognition. About the LP We're playing the PC version of Stranglehold. SegFault is the one actually playing, and this is his second playthrough. He will be pre-recording the gameplay for each update. Donnor and I are seeing this all for the first time. SegFault is playing on normal difficulty and not necessarily going for a 100% run. Our goal here is to show you guys just how cool this game was that you've probably never played (and if you have, be sure to post here and talk about it!) and hopefully provide some entertaining commentary on the way. We'll also be talking about its relationship to Hard Boiled. Characters  Tequila Yuen A hard-boiled (ha) Hong Kong Police Department inspector. He is well-known and somewhat infamous for his aggressive, reckless methods and his acrobatic two-gun style. He has prior experience with Triads, and seems to take the deaths of fellow officers more seriously than most.  Jerry Ying A HKPD undercover cop, working against the Triads. He also serves as Tequila's contact on missions. Something of a callback to Hard Boiled's Tony, another undercover officer who shared Tequila's zeal. He used to be a crazy guy.  Ed Lee A Hong Kong Police Department Captain, and Tequila's immediate superior. As police chiefs in action movies tend to be, he's a strictly by-the-book cop and isn't particularly fond of Tequila's unique brand of peacekeeping. Another callback to Hard Boiled, which featured a similarly strict and adversarial police superintendent.  Ty Lok One of the leaders and co-founders of the triad gang known as the Golden Kane. As seen in the opening, he's responsible for killing the officer and setting up the trap for Tequila.  The Bartender An absolutely pivotal character in the series... actually, no, he's just a bartender. He is, however, notable for two things: being the only character other than Tequila to have appeared in both the film and its game sequel, and being portrayed by John Woo. Stuff not to appear in the OP A word on our workflow: First, the gameplay is captured by SegFault. We're shooting for videos of about 20-30 minutes, but they will mostly break at beginnings and endings of levels and appropriate breaks in levels where necessary. Then, the three of us record our commentary while watching the capture. After that, SegFault edits and normalizes the audio levels and does any video editing that is required. Next we watch the video all the way through. If there's nothing wrong with it, we render it and then it is run through HandBrake. Lastly, we glance through it to see that the rendering and compression hasn't caused any glaring technical issues before uploading it to Youtube. This is our first Let's Play, but we see this working well for the rest of the LP. We have of course looked over the rules, guidelines, and FAQ. We'll be grateful for any tips on workflow if you think we should change things up. And of course, comments and criticism on commentary, style, etc are welcome. Garnavis fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jun 5, 2012 |
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Jun 5, 2012 19:44
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I have to admit I'm a little squeamish about you saying all the gameplay has been pre-recorded before you got it peer-reviewed here. If we find a problem with your workflow you might need to re-record everything. Will watch this evening when I get a chance.
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Jun 5, 2012 19:50
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Sorry, maybe that was poorly worded. Only the gameplay from the first two levels have been recorded and only the commentary for the first. What I meant was that the gameplay is recorded before we do the commentary. We'll be making and posting updates one at a time. I'll change that in the OP so it's more clear.
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Jun 5, 2012 20:01
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Garnavis posted:[VLP] Time Slows Down Whenever You're Around: Let's Play Stranglehold!
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Jun 5, 2012 20:42
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Niggurath posted:You've got some pretty noticeable frame blending going on throughout your video and your commentary audio is kinda difficult to hear over the game's audio and gunfire, so I'd say you might want to turn that up. This, and also turn the game audio up for dialogue. I had a hard time hearing the characters during some of the cutscenes. Aside from that, interesting LP and I think I'll be following this one. Oh yes, and turn on subtitles if there's an option to.
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Jun 5, 2012 21:43
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Niggurath posted:You've got some pretty noticeable frame blending going on throughout your video and your commentary audio is kinda difficult to hear over the game's audio and gunfire, so I'd say you might want to turn that up. Not a problem, we can eliminate the frame blending in future videos, and we'll be more mindful of audio levels as well. Meis posted:This, and also turn the game audio up for dialogue. I had a hard time hearing the characters during some of the cutscenes. Aside from that, interesting LP and I think I'll be following this one. There's no option for subtitles, which is unfortunate because the accents can be pretty thick in this game. Should we add our own?
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Jun 5, 2012 21:55
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Garnavis posted:[VLP] Time Slows Down Whenever You're Around: Let's Play Stranglehold!  You might want to get someone else to look through it if you miss something as obvious as frameblending, it also seems pretty jerk, but that might just be the game...
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Jun 5, 2012 22:13
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