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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Errr, Lil' Seb is standing right next to Jane though. How the hell did I miss that Anyway it looks like there are transportalizers to both Prospite and Derse down there maybe? Which would explain not only how Jake just got to Derse, but also how Grandpa got in and out of the B1 session.
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Jun 11, 2012 03:12
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Mazerunner posted:How the hell did I miss that Yeah, that was pretty much the most anticlimactic way to answer that particular mystery.
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Jun 11, 2012 03:13
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We also finally got an answer on how Grandpa Harley and Grandma Jade got into the Incipisphere. It's kind of weird to finally have that question answered considering how long it's been a mystery. E:f,b
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Jun 11, 2012 03:14
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I...guess that answers how Grandpa got into the Incipisphere, but it's weird how he was entering from a different time. Then again, the Incipisphere synced with Dirk and Roxy being in a different time, so maybe it's not that weird?
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Jun 11, 2012 03:22
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Im betting that AR tells Jake to use the transportalizer.
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Jun 11, 2012 03:26
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The most important fact here is that Nic Cage was still a thing in the new universe
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Jun 11, 2012 03:34
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That's simpler than I expected.
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Jun 11, 2012 03:42
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What. Well, that explains a lot, but still... transportalizers from Earth to the Incinisphere really fucks with entry requirements. Although... Given that the entry items for this session are automatic, it follows that participation from a player to enter might not be necessary. In that case, it doesn't matter how or when the players enter so long as SBURB is eventually activated for them in some way. What made them players in the first place wasn't that they entered through an entry item, but that they were part of the causal loop leading to their own creation, and that they had dreamselves. AR or a server player could conceivably just deploy all the devices, activate them remotely, and send their house to the medium without needing a player inside. At least, that's a theory that I'm using. nerdbot posted:I'm gonna guess there's a transportalizer to Derse in the Frog Temple that we're going to see when we get to Jake's part of the "choose your character" thing, which would explain, well, a lot. How the gently caress edit: Nate RFB posted:Haha, I just had a thought. What if the only way for Jake to get back is by hitching a ride on a meteor? What if the only meteor they are able to send off is the frog temple in the end? If so, there's really only one place he could stash himself away inside it... I like this one just as much, if not more. TheDemon fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 04:23
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Entry into the game is pre-destined due to the whole mess of intertwined causality between the universes. Transportalizers that lead directly between Earth and the Incipisphere are A-OK because technically they can't prevent the players from entering the "right" way, and may even be required for them to do so. This will probably make updating timeline maps for this comic way more complicated though.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:28
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Bobulus posted:I...guess that answers how Grandpa got into the Incipisphere, but it's weird how he was entering from a different time. The Incipisphere exists outside of normal time, any time related discrepancies between it and the real universe can just be handwaved away.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:36
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Haha, I just had a thought. What if the only way for Jake to get back is by hitching a ride on a meteor? What if the only meteor they are able to send off is the frog temple in the end? If so, there's really only one place he could stash himself away inside it...
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Jun 11, 2012 04:40
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Nate RFB posted:Haha, I just had a thought. What if the only way for Jake to get back is by hitching a ride on a meteor? What if the only meteor they are able to send off is the frog temple in the end? If so, there's really only one place he could stash himself away inside it... That is exactly crazy enough to be true. This is what is going to happen.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:44
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In an absurd twist, Dirk's plan to "rescue" Jake will be foiled by Jane's sudden appearance and he will wind up having to put *her* in the lotus instead. Thus beginning the circuitous chain of events that leads Jane to enter the game four times and become the only legitimate player.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:48
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Do we have any reason to think the transporter that got Jane to Derse isn't two-way?
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Jun 11, 2012 05:42
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This would explain how Grandpa got the medium.. Although I suppose it doesn't explain how he got the airship in, the giant one with his face logo on it. ...Unless he brought it in his modus.  Saradiart posted:I guess that's why Bec stopped Jade from going down? This brings up a troubling thought.. If the derse/prospit transportalizers in Jade's house still worked, then technically she didn't need to die in the beta timeline where Bec couldn't destroy the meteor. She could have escaped.. 
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Jun 11, 2012 06:28
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The Scratch is basically like resetting your Pokemon game Blastoise this time instead of a Charizard and see how things will play out differently in a new game. The same universe with the same rules but a different starting condition. B1 was smart enough trade its best Pokemon to its good friend A2 before starting a new game.
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Jun 11, 2012 07:09
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Midnight Raider posted:This brings up a troubling thought.. If the derse/prospit transportalizers in Jade's house still worked, then technically she didn't need to die in the beta timeline where Bec couldn't destroy the meteor. She could have escaped.. I don't really think that Jade actually did die in that timeline! (we're talking about the one Davesprite comes from right?) Remember that, though they're linked, the timelines of a session and it's host universe aren't actually the same, as we're seeing now with the B2 kids being all over the place timeways on Earth but all at the same time in the session. In that case, then Jade, who was still on Earth, may not have actually 'entered' the Davesprite beta-timeline. Kind of like how the Trolls couldn't see or interact with the Beta timeline, only the Alpha. So there was no beta-Jade who died on Earth, the Earth and the B1 session got desynchronized. From Rose and Dave's perspective, she stopped talking to them and they assumed she died, but really, they just couldn't interact with an outside timestream. Jade's perspective is exactly what we see in the comic, since there was no beta-version of her. I guess?
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Jun 11, 2012 07:35
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Well, that kind of josses one of the most tearjerking things I've ever read. 
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Jun 11, 2012 08:09
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I'm pretty sure that you aren't correct about that and that a beta-Jade would have existed and died but I'm having trouble articulating exactly why.
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Jun 11, 2012 08:13
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Regy Rusty posted:I'm pretty sure that you aren't correct about that and that a beta-Jade would have existed and died but I'm having trouble articulating exactly why. Nah, a beta timeline is separated from all other universes/timelines at its creation, as far as we know. And the incipisphere and the originating universe for the session are definitely different timelines, as evidenced by Jane and dream Dirk being present in the same place at the same time.
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Jun 11, 2012 08:17
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Midnight Raider posted:This would explain how Grandpa got the medium.. Although I suppose it doesn't explain how he got the airship in, the giant one with his face logo on it. That's the fourth wall he shrunk down, right? And there's supposed to be a battleship coming in sometime? And Jake hasn't had his round of alchemizing shenanigans yet, one of which might land him a custom airship...
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Jun 11, 2012 08:38
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Hah, Jake wasn't supposed to be there either, apparently. There goes that idea. Now what?
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Jun 11, 2012 08:39
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I'm not the only one who's starting to be worried by all the Delirious Biznasty up in here, am I? Maybe it's because it's logo is a green man 
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Jun 11, 2012 08:51
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No there is definitely something up with that.
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Jun 11, 2012 09:13
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Mazerunner posted:I don't really think that Jade actually did die in that timeline! (we're talking about the one Davesprite comes from right?) I'm pretty sure Beta-timelines exist outside the framework of the incipisphere, after all, Aradia retrieved the HONK code from a Beta-timeline Alternia where everybody died.
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Jun 11, 2012 09:21
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Nate RFB posted:Haha, I just had a thought. What if the only way for Jake to get back is by hitching a ride on a meteor? What if the only meteor they are able to send off is the frog temple in the end? If so, there's really only one place he could stash himself away inside it... Jorenko posted:That is exactly crazy enough to be true. This is what is going to happen. Furthermore, now that he is meeting up with Jane suddenly, and they will BOTH need to escape, they might BOTH get locked into that time capsule, getting up to who knows what sort of shenanigans together okay my brain melted. 
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Jun 11, 2012 09:48
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YggiDee posted:I'm pretty sure Beta-timelines exist outside the framework of the incipisphere, after all, Aradia retrieved the HONK code from a Beta-timeline Alternia where everybody died. Well, of course they do. But a timeline-forking event in one timeline does not and cannot affect any other timeline, because external viewers can only see and interact with the Alpha. Or, to rely less on theory and more on logically equivalent situations, the Davesprite-B1 fork did not create a matching Davesprite-A2 fork. As such, there's no reason to think it would have created a matching Earth fork either, especially since they lost contact with Jade and the trolls in exactly the same way. Jade was awake for hours between John's timeline-forking PCHOOOOO and the meteor impact, and Davesprite-B1 Dave and Rose tried to contact her multiple times in that period. If John's PCHOOOOO had created a Davesprite-Earth fork, Jade's disappearance from the Davesprite-B1 timeline really wouldn't make any sense.
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Jun 11, 2012 09:57
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RandallODim posted:I'm not the only one who's starting to be worried by all the Delirious Biznasty up in here, am I? Maybe it's because it's logo is a green man Well, now I am.
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Jun 11, 2012 10:04
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This is shaping up to be a right clusterfuck, this is. Look at all these fucks starting to cluster together into one giant ball of gently caress.
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Jun 11, 2012 10:18
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I think I need to work "Fickle Fuckwit" into as many conversations as the opportunity will present.
SatansBestBuddy fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 10:46
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NO ONE CAN ESCAPE THE MILES
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Jun 11, 2012 10:54
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YggiDee posted:I'm pretty sure Beta-timelines exist outside the framework of the incipisphere, after all, Aradia retrieved the HONK code from a Beta-timeline Alternia where everybody died. But in that case the timeline split on Alternia, whereas in the case of the B1 kids it split in the incipisphere, and we have every indication that the universe and its incipisphere(s?) are quite insulated from each other temporally. Besides do we even know that that timeline where Gamzee killed all the trolls happened on Alternia and not in their incipisphere?
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Jun 11, 2012 10:55
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YF-23 posted:But in that case the timeline split on Alternia, whereas in the case of the B1 kids it split in the incipisphere, and we have every indication that the universe and its incipisphere(s?) are quite insulated from each other temporally. Yes, but why would that possibly matter? Why would the mechanics of free will and time work completely differently when you're here than it would when you're there? We've never seen any indication that anything like that might be the case for any aspect of the Homestuck multiverse, whether it has to do with time or grist or mangrit or echeladders or inventories or aspects or anything else. (And we've seen quite a bit of evidence to the contrary, such as Jane's ascension up the echeladder for her pre-entry feats of stylish hat-doffing.) Iny fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 11:13
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YF-23 posted:Besides do we even know that that timeline where Gamzee killed all the trolls happened on Alternia and not in their incipisphere? Actually, yeah, since Terezi and Karkat were killed in the same room, and they never met before entering the game, I'm assuming it happened post-entry.
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Jun 11, 2012 11:38
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On top of that, Aradia possessed the Soulbot post-entry herself.
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Jun 11, 2012 12:02
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I always had the impression that beta timeline are fully realized worlds with all participants, the only separation being that they are invisible to other universes who can only see the alpha of their neighbours (excluding the trolls for that reason). Partial evidence to this effect is everyone we've seen in the dream bubbles. We used to believe that only the beta-timeline time travelers (Aradia and Dave) who came to the alpha-timeline and then died would be in the dream bubbles with the alpha players while their fellow beta-timeline players simply ceased to exist (as Future Rose appeared to). Then we saw beta-John and beta-Eridan and beta-Feferi and beta-Karkat so it's slowly become apparent that everyone from every beta timeline ends up in the dream bubbles - suggesting they had the full compliment of players in every beta timeline to go along with it. Which seems to suggest just about an infinite number of players in the dream bubbles, considering all the divergent timelines (hell remember how many aradiabots there were?) and how some of them needed their own beta-timelines to set them up (feel bad for any beta-timeline past the creation of Davesprite, who gets to know what it feels like to be double-beta). Oh hey, remember how Jadesprite suggests that dream selves and real selves are actually different selves, and if one of them dies they'll actually be in the afterlife on their own? Is there any evidence yet that god-tiers merge those two souls even if the second one is dead? If not it means an Alpha Rose and Dave whose last memory are being killed by Bec Noir are running around the dream bubbles, not to mention all the surviving trolls' dream selves for certain are there since they aren't god-tier. Dolash fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 12:47
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Dolash posted:Oh hey, remember how Jadesprite suggests that dream selves and real selves are actually different selves, and if one of them dies they'll actually be in the afterlife on their own? Is there any evidence yet that god-tiers merge those two souls even if the second one is dead? If not it means an Alpha Rose and Dave whose last memory are being killed by Bec Noir are running around the dream bubbles, not to mention all the surviving trolls' dream selves for certain are there since they aren't god-tier. We definitely know that dreamselves are there separately, both because of jadesprite, and seeing Nepeta's dreamself in the bubbles. I'm under the impression that a kiss revival will merge a realself to the dreamself, which can't happen if your dreamself died. We also know from Jade that her two selves merged when she went godtier, but she still thought of that part of her as a separate entity.
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Jun 11, 2012 13:18
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Literally Sharks posted:Yes, but why would that possibly matter? Why would the mechanics of free will and time work completely differently when you're here than it would when you're there? We've never seen any indication that anything like that might be the case for any aspect of the Homestuck multiverse, whether it has to do with time or grist or mangrit or echeladders or inventories or aspects or anything else. (And we've seen quite a bit of evidence to the contrary, such as Jane's ascension up the echeladder for her pre-entry feats of stylish hat-doffing.) I don't mean that it works differently. I mean that, in the case of something going differently from the alpha timeline, and that something is an event that takes place in the incipisphere, then it is only the incipisphere that splits off and not any other universe. Likewise, if an event that broke from the alpha occured on the planet, then that would create a duplicate, beta universe, but not a duplicate beta incipisphere. So when John went off and died, that was an event that broke away from the Alpha timeline that occured in the incipisphere, which means that that instance of the incipisphere became a beta instance. That does not necessitate that there is any effect, or duplication, of the original universe. And as we know that the A2 incipisphere and the beta B2 incipisphere could not communicate, why should we assume that the B2 universe and the beta B2 incipisphere could? I mean in technical terms these all appear to be universes, it's just that two of them have more methods of communication between them, and if one splits off in a beta timeline and that timeline cannot communicate with one of the other two there's no reason the same does not go for the third universe.
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Jun 11, 2012 13:47
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There's no way Dream Roxy doesn't end up here as well. I thought about it a bit more and I'm kind of surprised at Droog's move here. It seems pretty extreme to destroy a whole planet to kill one kid. Sure he's midnight crew, but he's smoother than this. At least he does it coolly.
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Jun 11, 2012 15:00
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Cavatica posted:We definitely know that dreamselves are there separately, both because of jadesprite, and seeing Nepeta's dreamself in the bubbles. I'm under the impression that a kiss revival will merge a realself to the dreamself, which can't happen if your dreamself died. We also know from Jade that her two selves merged when she went godtier, but she still thought of that part of her as a separate entity. That separation might just be because Jade's dream self had so many years of experience to diverge from her real self, meaning God-tier Jade has a lot of divergent memories to deal with - kind of like Rose talking about the drinking her doomed beta-self did (which is still I think the only case of cross-time dream-self merging we've heard about). Another odd tidbit, we know from Jadesprite that you don't age in the dream bubbles (makes sense, I mean, you're dead). That means that all the trolls who died won't be three years older physically (or mentally, in the sense that adolescence affects the mind) once the players all meet up. It might make interactions between the living trolls and their 'younger' dead friends a little weird.
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Jun 11, 2012 15:16
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