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Kynetx posted:Denna is Netalia Lackless I thought it was pretty generally accepted that Kvothe's mom is Netalia Lackless, what with the song Kvothe's dad sang that caused his wife to make him sleep under the wagon -- "It’s worth my life To make my wife Not tally a lot less..." "Not tally a lot less" = Netalia Lackless
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Jun 11, 2012 06:13
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Also it's revealed that Kvothe's mother was a runaway highborn woman, and that Natalia Lockless ran away with an Edema Ruh trouper. It's pretty conclusive.
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Jun 11, 2012 06:17
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Kynetx posted:I'm doing a re-reading of both books and getting to the end of Kvothe's imprisonment/training/brainwashing among the Adem. The are an incredibly racist, insular and ignorant people. They see themselves as enlightened, but tolerance and knowledge are not considered "civilization" to them. I wonder if the Man Mothers hypothesis is a symptom of their culturally-inherent xenophobia. They don't seem to know any more of Sympathy or any of the other arcane arts than the Vintish, and maybe less of conventional arts such as smithing and medicine. I find them to be a distasteful mish-mash of Japanese, Noble Savage and Nordic stereotypes. This is pretty much exactly why I find the Adem bit so crap. It's put forward in the book as though they are advanced, superior people but they are just so poo poo. Pretty sure Kvothes mother is the missing Lackless. I always thought Haliax is Denna's master, what with her never seeing his face with it being obscured by a hood all of them time and that being haliax's description. Didn't it say somewhere that Bast was in his 60s? Where did I get that idea from.
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Jun 11, 2012 12:16
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Bast is Kvothe's son by Felurian is a theory I've heard. Time moves differently in Fae so it's possible chronologically. Edit: Though I'm not convinced that it's "clear" he adores Kvothe. It's obvious that he wants Kvothe to go back to being himself, but what he tells the Chronicler about why could easily be a lie. He may have some kind of hidden motive or goal that requires Kvothe to be alive, himself and to trust Bast. And if Kvothe's loss of powers are tied to the Waystone (meaning he is protecting something within the inn's walls, sacrificing his power when he's inside), which is a fairly persuasive theory that came out of that reread, Bast may just want it released. Sophia fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 13:10
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I'm trying to figure out why he keeps getting the poo poo kicked out of him outside of his own story. Did he suddenly lose his sympathy? Is that even a possibility? I don't remember reading about it in the books or anything. Edit: And yeah, I'm okay with Bast being his son, but there's something else under the surface there.. like, he's in league with the Chandarian, or at least knows they're out for him and that's why he wants him to sack up and be a badass again. I'd kinda love it if at the end of the book, he tells the Chronicler "Yeah, I just made all that poo poo up. I told you, I'm the best loving bard on the planet." TShields fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 13:20
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TShields posted:I'm trying to figure out why he keeps getting the poo poo kicked out of him outside of his own story. Did he suddenly lose his sympathy? Is that even a possibility? I don't remember reading about it in the books or anything. Ever since someone mentioned it, I read all of Kvothe as he is Zapp Brannigan. All bluster, tall tales, completely inflating himself, but when it comes down to it, its all story and he's just a sad sack. I somehow doubt that's what Rothfuss is doing though.
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Jun 11, 2012 13:28
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Above Our Own posted:Also it's revealed that Kvothe's mother was a runaway highborn woman, and that Natalia Lockless ran away with an Edema Ruh trouper. It's pretty conclusive. There's also the fact that he keeps saying the other Lackless woman seems terribly familiar to him, but he can never put his finger on it. Which is actually kind of odd considering how super-human Kvothe's reasoning typically seems to be.
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Jun 11, 2012 13:57
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Sophia posted:Bast is Kvothe's son by Felurian is a theory I've heard. Time moves differently in Fae so it's possible chronologically. While possible chronologically, I believe Bast has stated that he's a prince from a specific part of the Fae and had interacted with the "real world" in the past prior to meeting Kvothe (don't kvothe me on that). Unless, of course, time in Fae is *completely* non-linear, in which case Bast could be the creator and Felurian is his daughter. Anything is possible when time has no meaning.
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Jun 11, 2012 14:08
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Stalkerr posted:While possible chronologically, I believe Bast has stated that he's a prince from a specific part of the Fae and had interacted with the "real world" in the past prior to meeting Kvothe (don't kvothe me on that). Unless, of course, time in Fae is *completely* non-linear, in which case Bast could be the creator and Felurian is his daughter. Anything is possible when time has no meaning. He could have left Fae wandered around looking for Kvothe didn't find him, return to Fae, left again found him this time and still not be lying... I can't remember anymore but can Fae in Rothfuss's world lie? (Other than the tree of gently caress you that is.)
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Jun 11, 2012 14:19
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Antinumeric posted:I always thought Haliax is Denna's master, what with her never seeing his face with it being obscured by a hood all of them time and that being haliax's description. Yeah, that's entirely possible too. But I think that the Cinder -> Ash connection is kind of strong, and he's pretty much the "main" Chandarian from the narrative perspective. TShields posted:I'm trying to figure out why he keeps getting the poo poo kicked out of him outside of his own story. Did he suddenly lose his sympathy? Is that even a possibility? I don't remember reading about it in the books or anything. There's a lot of possibilities gone over in the Reread - really recommend reading it if you haven't. Phummus posted:Ever since someone mentioned it, I read all of Kvothe as he is Zapp Brannigan. All bluster, tall tales, completely inflating himself, but when it comes down to it, its all story and he's just a sad sack. I somehow doubt that's what Rothfuss is doing though. Yeah, unreliable narrator would be the best thing to happen ot this series. But I'm not counting on it happening.
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Jun 11, 2012 15:16
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Ornamented Death posted:There's also the fact that he keeps saying the other Lackless woman seems terribly familiar to him, but he can never put his finger on it.
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Jun 11, 2012 17:02
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Above Our Own posted:That's something I feel is one of the book's larger flaws. Kvothe is supposed to be this brilliant wizard trickster hero yet frequently fails to put obvious clues together. This isn't particularly bothersome. We know we're reading a book so we're looking for clues, but Kvothe as yet doesn't really have any reason to assume that his mother was anything special.
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Jun 11, 2012 17:56
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Above Our Own posted:That's something I feel is one of the book's larger flaws. Kvothe is supposed to be this brilliant wizard trickster hero yet frequently fails to put obvious clues together. Eh, why would he even think about it? Kids almost always take their parents at face value, even when they turn into adults, and Kvothe's brain trauma around his parents would mean he's even less likely to re-examine their behavior or looks. Plus, he hasn't seen his mom in years, so I doubt the resemblance would be immediately recalled. There are things wrong with Kvothe but I don't think this is one of them.
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Jun 11, 2012 19:00
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He remembered the song and knew that it made his mother very angry. He knew she was a noblewomen who eloped with a trouper. You would have thought that a genius level intellect would have connected the dots when he saw the resemblence in what's her face, and when he heard about the grudge she bore towards the Ruh for 'seducing' her sister.
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Jun 11, 2012 19:16
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That's the kind of logical reasoning that only happens in books because we're only seeing the important bits. Like HotR said, the only reason we attach significance to it is that we know it's relevant or we wouldn't have been told. In real life things just happen with mostly equal weight. I bet his dad sang his mom a thousand songs, even if that one was the only one that made her truly upset. And Kvothe obviously doesn't give a crap about his non-Ruh lineage anyway, so it's not like his mom's family origin has been some burning mystery to him like the Chandrian, or the Amyr, or sympathy (where he does piece together things very quickly). Plus I'm not sure he ever thought that she looked like his mom, just that she reminded him of "someone". I've met 5 people in the last week who reminded me of someone else I knew and I didn't immediately start running down genological trees. The whole idea strikes me as one of the more realistic portrayals of Kvothe's humanity in the book, really. Sometimes a big thing that happens to you is just a thing without context.
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Jun 11, 2012 20:40
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Sophia posted:That's the kind of logical reasoning that only happens in books because we're only seeing the important bits. Like HotR said, the only reason we attach significance to it is that we know it's relevant or we wouldn't have been told. In real life things just happen with mostly equal weight.
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Jun 11, 2012 21:07
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Yeah, but art isn't life. Everything has intent in art. Feh. After reading the preceding posts, I can see the logic in Kvothe being half Lackless. I still think Denna is also Lackless blood, and them never having anything but casual contact leaves a Luke and Leia style relation open to possibility. Goddamn it, red hair is a recessive gene. Now what?
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Jun 11, 2012 23:44
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Kvothe has Lockless blood and you can bet your bottom that it's got something to do with that super mysterious heirloom Lockless box the Maer had. Rothfuss is the best fantasy author I can think of when it comes to adding layers of mystery into his work, really makes the last book worth looking forward to despite the pretty heavy flaws in the series.
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Jun 11, 2012 23:55
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Kynetx posted:Yeah, but art isn't life. Everything has intent in art. "Everything has intent" is all well and good, but sometimes humanizing touches are just humanizing touches, and unless he comes out and spells it out for us, speculating on Rothfuss' intent doesn't do much good.
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Jun 11, 2012 23:57
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Kynetx posted:Feh. After reading the preceding posts, I can see the logic in Kvothe being half Lackless. I still think Denna is also Lackless blood, and them never having anything but casual contact leaves a Luke and Leia style relation open to possibility. But Denna is the moon.
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Jun 12, 2012 01:51
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This whole thing is a book two spoiler. Was it fairly obvious to anyone else that Kvothe killed some dudes during the pirate attack off page? He is way less phased about the first murder we see on the page later than is typical in a fantasy book. Some of that can be Bast hurrying him past the bad parts, but I still think he would have mentioned something about it being the first time he killed a dude if it had been (with the guys in the woods). At least that's my take on it, which would be an interesting thing for Rothfuss to do.
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Jun 12, 2012 06:42
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Benson Cunningham posted:This whole thing is a book two spoiler. I'm fairly certain Rothfuss is saving that whole adventure for a short story/novella somewhere down the line. I know for a fact he owes one to SubPress because Bill Schafer bought one of those golden ticket things a couple years back during Rothfuss's big charity event, so it might turn up there if he decides to do a Kvothe story.
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Jun 12, 2012 14:11
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Don't quote me on this or ask me for my sources or even read the rest of this sentence but I think the (tiny spoiler) pirate stuff was written then excised for length/flow/quality purposes.
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Jun 12, 2012 17:24
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All the more reason to revamp it into a one-off for contractual reasons.
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Jun 12, 2012 18:22
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TychoCelchuuu posted:Don't quote me on this or ask me for my sources or even read the rest of this sentence but I think the (tiny spoiler) pirate stuff was written then excised for length/flow/quality purposes. That would be a terrible reason considering the what, 250ish pages before it that were largely a repeat of the first book that could have been safely skipped? I would have felt that skipping that spoiler would have been clever if there wasn't so much padding before it. But then again his editor took a hands off approach so who knows.
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Jun 12, 2012 19:23
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Above Our Own posted:Rothfuss is the best fantasy author I can think of when it comes to adding layers of mystery into his work, really makes the last book worth looking forward to despite the pretty heavy flaws in the series. This is a really fair statement and I think it put into perspective why I like these books so much. I know the books have some problems but the mystery to how everything is going to come together is just so drat irresistible for me.
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Jun 12, 2012 19:43
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So what's in the Three lock/Lack/Lockless box? I'm thinking the name of the moon. Thoughts?
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Jun 13, 2012 03:14
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Kynetx posted:So what's in the Three lock/Lack/Lockless box? I'm thinking the name of the moon. Thoughts? I'm guessing Kvothe was in some kind of mortal danger from the Chandrian. They were on to him somehow. He found a way to lock himself, or a defining part of himself in the box. This is why he's not badass in the present. Bast will figure out how to open the box and return Kvothe to his badass self and he'll save the day/Denna/everything.
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Jun 13, 2012 17:56
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Really? I was figuring his current lack of skill with Sympathy was due to some event in his past damaging his alar (sorry, audiobook, no clue to the spelling)and wrecking his confidence. Remember that the Creation war was started by Jax, who held the moon's name in a small iron box. The last nested container of the Lockless box held something that Kvothe believed to be small and metallic. Seems too much to just be coincidental.. Kynetx fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Jun 13, 2012 |
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Jun 13, 2012 19:51
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Kynetx posted:Really? I was figuring his current lack of skill with Sympathy was due to some event in his past damaging his alar (sorry, audiobook, no clue to the spelling)and wrecking his confidence. That, and swearing by his name, his power, and his good left hand not to search for Denna's employer. Remember when Elodin flipped his poo poo about changing his name? And now he's Kote. And his power is gone. And there's something wrong with his left hand. What do you suppose the odds are that Denna's employer isn't a king, and that Kvothe didn't kingkiller him, and that Denna wasn't all Denna about it?
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Jun 13, 2012 22:12
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:That, and swearing by his name, his power, and his good left hand not to search for Denna's employer. Remember when Elodin flipped his poo poo about changing his name? And now he's Kote. And his power is gone. And there's something wrong with his left hand. Oh poo poo. Didn't really remember the swearing by his name, power and good left hand. Still, the employer thing seems a minor thing to lose all that over... Maybe he later made the same promise in a more weighty setting? I didn't really like reading the bits outside of the story because old(er) Kvothe is depressing and it makes me depressed just reading about how miserable he is. That's one thing Rothfuss is quite good at, setting a mood. I remember in the first book during the Eolian bit I was all tense and nervous for Kvothe.
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Jun 14, 2012 00:11
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Ethereal Duck posted:Oh poo poo. Didn't really remember the swearing by his name, power and good left hand. Still, the employer thing seems a minor thing to lose all that over... Maybe he later made the same promise in a more weighty setting? I didn't really like reading the bits outside of the story because old(er) Kvothe is depressing and it makes me depressed just reading about how miserable he is. Wise Man's Fear, Chapter 73 posted:"I swear I won’t attempt to uncover your patron," I said bitterly. "I swear it on my name and my power. I swear it by my good left hand. I swear it by the ever-moving moon." Pretty weighty, and said directly to Denna, not in the framing story.
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Jun 14, 2012 02:20
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Setting a mood with his prose is definitely one of his strengths.
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Jun 14, 2012 02:48
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Denna IS the moon. She has different "phases", in which she carries different names. She even disappears entirely sometimes. Her patron may be the person who stole her from the sky, and maybe he does abuse her to keep her around or to display his dominance over her. And when Kvothe figures that out, maybe it's not the patron who takes his power, but maybe Denna has the power to take it for breaking his promise. Yeah, it's far-fetched. I don't spend as much time thinking about this stuff as some people do.. 
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Jun 14, 2012 04:45
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Kynetx posted:So what's in the Three lock/Lack/Lockless box? I'm thinking the name of the moon. Thoughts? Hoping its Denna's body.
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Jun 14, 2012 09:33
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The true method of Adem contraception
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Jun 14, 2012 12:39
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Manbabies! Manbabies! Seriously though, I goddamn love these books. You guys really ought to listen to the audio versions, Nick Podehl is an awesome reader. I was listening thru ASOIAF, and Roy Dotrice sounds like a total hack in comparison, Elizabethan voice notwithstanding.
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Jun 14, 2012 14:27
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Kynetx posted:So what's in the Three lock/Lack/Lockless box? I'm thinking the name of the moon. Thoughts? Hm, yes, I'm sure Kvothe knowing the name of the moon wouldn't be like a toddler having a gun or anything 
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Jun 14, 2012 21:21
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If Kvothe interfered with the moon he would disrupt the barrier between the normal world and the fae realm and you've have dangerous fae creatures roaming the land hey wait a minute.
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Jun 14, 2012 21:25
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Denna is the moon but Auri got split off from her and is hiding at the University being all weird and then Kvothe ends up in a threesome with them and binds them back together using his magic fairy sex powers  I felt uncomfortable writing that.
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Jun 16, 2012 22:14
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