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Neat. Are you running a circle track suspension tune ? What about smaller inner tires ? Do you set the steering trim to turn a bit on its own ?
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Jun 7, 2012 16:50
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jonathan posted:Neat. Are you running a circle track suspension tune ? What about smaller inner tires ? Do you set the steering trim to turn a bit on its own ? I have it tuned to the best I can within the rules. The rules don't let you change much. Everything must be kept stock as a rtr, minus the radio & pinion/spur combos. Different shock oil and internal limiters are also permitted. Surprisingly, the Slash is a killer oval car with just a few tweaks. This also keeps the cost way down.
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Jun 7, 2012 17:00
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Any of you guys do a water break in for a brushed motor before? Looks like I'm going to do it for a new stock Slash motor. All the faster guys are running them, and since we have to run the stock system for spec racing, those fractions of a second REALLY add up when you are doing oval.
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Jun 8, 2012 16:25
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Heh, so the oval guys still practice the black arts I see  funny to see that still kicking around these days, I remember when you could get Big Jim's motor tuning book that taught you all you'd ever need to know about brushed motors.
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Jun 8, 2012 21:10
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So I was innocently browsing hobbyking.com for some batteries and stumbled upon a 1/5th scale 26cc buggy for $350. poo poo. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__16635__Hobby_King_Baja_260_1_5th_Scale_26cc_Dune_Buggy_USA_Warehouse_.html 
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Jun 11, 2012 00:42
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Yeah, that's one of the most obvious Baja clones out there. And before anyone asks, no it's not made in any factory that makes HPI stuff, it's a copycat car made with lesser quality materials and overall isn't as good. You won't necessarily be able to fit Baja parts or options on it, either. The clone Baja threads I've read basically all say that if you want a lookalike without the quality (for driving once in a while), go for it, but if you want to be able to abuse your car like a racer or basher that drives every weekend or every day, look for a used Baja on eBay or save up.
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Jun 11, 2012 01:27
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Yeah, but for $350, gently caress HPI's price. I mean, you can't say that poo poo isn't inflated. Just look at the price of their replacement bodies on the short course trucks.
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Jun 11, 2012 01:32
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I don't know what the price of the 5SC body is in the US, but I recently paid £35 for a 'rally game body 1/3rd the size of a 5SC body, with no decals, no masking and a really crappy finish (the mold wasn't polished, there are sanding marks all over it). I know some people complain about HPI prices (I don't see how, once you've seen XRAY prices) but if you put a clone next to the real thing I think you would see how the HPI is worth more.
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Jun 11, 2012 01:47
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krushgroove posted:I don't know what the price of the 5SC body is in the US, but I recently paid £35 for a 'rally game body 1/3rd the size of a 5SC body, with no decals, no masking and a really crappy finish (the mold wasn't polished, there are sanding marks all over it). I know some people complain about HPI prices (I don't see how, once you've seen XRAY prices) but if you put a clone next to the real thing I think you would see how the HPI is worth more. no doubt more, but 3-4 times more?
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Jun 11, 2012 01:58
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krushgroove posted:if you put a clone next to the real thing I think you would see how the HPI is worth more. I don't doubt that this is true, but I think the low cost of entry in the most appealing thing. Spending $400-500 on the clone instead of $900-1000 is a lot more palatable, for me anyway. At least HPI makes money on parts and hop-ups that people buy for their Hobbyking clone.
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Jun 11, 2012 02:00
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krushgroove posted:I don't know what the price of the 5SC body is in the US, but I recently paid £35 for a 'rally game body 1/3rd the size of a 5SC body, with no decals, no masking and a really crappy finish (the mold wasn't polished, there are sanding marks all over it). I know some people complain about HPI prices (I don't see how, once you've seen XRAY prices) but if you put a clone next to the real thing I think you would see how the HPI is worth more. Is that rally body HPI brand? If not it just kind of proves my point. Here's what they go for in the US: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAZNJ&P=Z In store can go for another $100.
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Jun 11, 2012 02:03
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It's obvious that the price is a big deal, of course it is, and I can't answer why HPI prices are much higher than poorly made copycat products, but clones of other cars like XRAY and Tamiya touring cars are out there, too. There are many reasons why people still buy the real items, though, and it's not down to just marketing campaigns and hobby shop salespeople. If you really want one of the clone cars, get one and give it a proper hard bash and report back! Please Aceshighxxx posted:At least HPI makes money on parts and hop-ups that people buy for their Hobbyking clone. I did say that folks online has said that HPI spares and options won't necessarily fit the clone cars, which is another reason folks buy the real thing. e: I don't want to sound like all  saying "spend $1000 on this useless toy", I'm just try to get across that you get more than just the box with a car in it when you fork out for a genuine article. Some of you guys must have heard the old adage "buy nice or buy twice", right?
krushgroove fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 02:31
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Aceshighxxx posted:So I was innocently browsing hobbyking.com for some batteries and stumbled upon a 1/5th scale 26cc buggy for $350. poo poo. If you want a Baja, find a used one, check local Craigslist/classifieds or the HPI baja forum buy/sell forum.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:15
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Somewhat Heroic posted:I'm going to virtually beg you to not part with your $350. I work with the worlds largest Baja retailer and that is seriously a road you don't wan to go down. I love the 1/5 crowd and platforms a metric ton. People that get into should have nothing but an awesome experience. Buying a clone car is not a way to have a good experience into pump-gas cars. While the majority of the HPI parts will fit, not everything will. I will never be able to give you a guaranteed 'yes, this will fit your car' etc. should you ever call the same way I have to tell others. Out of curiosity, what's the difference between invoice vs list price on the HPI 5b ss where you work?
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Jun 11, 2012 04:37
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Somewhat Heroic posted:I'm going to virtually beg you to not part with your $350. I work with the worlds largest Baja retailer and that is seriously a road you don't wan to go down. I love the 1/5 crowd and platforms a metric ton. People that get into should have nothing but an awesome experience. Buying a clone car is not a way to have a good experience into pump-gas cars. While the majority of the HPI parts will fit, not everything will. I will never be able to give you a guaranteed 'yes, this will fit your car' etc. should you ever call the same way I have to tell others. This isn't really a good reason not to buy one. Most of the parts do fit, the ones that don't you can make fit and if that fails, you can track down actual parts for your model. Especially if you checkout hong-kong based online retailers.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:45
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Powershift posted:Out of curiosity, what's the difference between invoice vs list price on the HPI 5b ss where you work? I doubt he can/will tell you that.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:46
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Somewhat Heroic posted:I'm going to virtually beg you to not part with your $350. I work with the worlds largest Baja retailer and that is seriously a road you don't wan to go down. I love the 1/5 crowd and platforms a metric ton. People that get into should have nothing but an awesome experience. Buying a clone car is not a way to have a good experience into pump-gas cars. While the majority of the HPI parts will fit, not everything will. I will never be able to give you a guaranteed 'yes, this will fit your car' etc. should you ever call the same way I have to tell others. I do believe you guys when you say that HPI makes a better product. I guess I just got excited that maybe I could have a product that is almost as fun for a lot less money. I'll probably pass on it because after doing a little more research, the shipping is another $80, then once you add Tx/Rx and servos you're going to be probably between $500-600. And that is about what a used HPI is going for it seems.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:50
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Aceshighxxx posted:I do believe you guys when you say that HPI makes a better product. I guess I just got excited that maybe I could have a product that is almost as fun for a lot less money. I'll probably pass on it because after doing a little more research, the shipping is another $80, then once you add Tx/Rx and servos you're going to be probably between $500-600. And that is about what a used HPI is going for it seems. I would definitely get the used HPI. Watch out for over used ones.
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Jun 11, 2012 04:52
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front wing flexing posted:This isn't really a good reason not to buy one. Most of the parts do fit, the ones that don't you can make fit and if that fails, you can track down actual parts for your model. Especially if you checkout hong-kong based online retailers. RE: list vs invoice - I won't give specifics, but having been in the industry for quite a while I will tell you that dealers are not BSing when they say there is not a lot of margin on kits. Manufacturers make the most percentage over the cost of raw materials, but a huge investment is included on what krushgroove has illustrated in an earlier post (building molds, R&D, etc). The way we sell most of our kits is by including a free tuned pipe we sell for $170 when you buy a kit, or by removing the engine and reducing the cost of the kit so the customer can install their own. When you factor overhead for carrying kits, cost of shipping (free shipping over $100), +signature service + residential delivery on boxes weighing 45-60 pounds, and if people use a 5% coupon code, credit card fees etc the money is not made on kits. Again, we do make a profit, but after all that it is not going to net us all that huge Mercedes Benz and the likes. Our money is made on the parts, upgrades, and engines. For the volume of parts we sell vs. the amount of kits, a lot are being sold somewhere else. I suspect tower does it as a loss leader (there $150 off $1000 or whatever + free shipping is outrageous). It is safe to say most dealers make 10% on most of the kits you see that are in a realistic price range. That was a wall of text, sorry. It's just after spending years in this industry and working business operations I find it really fascinating and like to tell people the mechanics of it.
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Jun 11, 2012 05:28
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 okay. It's almost like it's your living to sell these products so knockoffs would be bad for business.
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Jun 11, 2012 05:36
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Obviously 'industry' guys aren't going to change everyone's mind, so go online and ask about the clone cars and see what actual owners have said, e.g., whether they've saved anything in the end or if it's been a hassle to get parts or fit options. I don't really say any more because of course I'm going to sound like a company shill. I do honestly want people to have a good time with toy cars, so when I see what seems to me to be clearly bad stuff I try to steer people away from it. :vOv: There are many products out there, copycat or not, that you can spend less on to get nearly the same quality. If you're not a professional builder using your tools every day, you don't need to spend $$$ on Makita tools and can get Silverline tools for maybe 60% of the price, if all you're doing is building a deck and need a new drill. I can drool over Snap-On tools all I want, but I know I don't need that level of quality for changing the oil on my car, so no-name stuff is fine for me. That's why I said if all you're going to do is buy a car, drive it a few times and put it on the shelf, get the clone if you want. But if you're going to race it, travel with it, bash it every week, etc. - you would honestly be better off with the real thing.
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Jun 11, 2012 10:18
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Welp, looks like I'm back in the game. Just ordered a Stampede 4x4 VXL with a LiPo, should be in sometime this week. I'm excited!
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Jun 11, 2012 12:58
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front wing flexing posted:Is that rally body HPI brand? If not it just kind of proves my point. LMAO, I bought my entire 4x4 Slash for less than that. Seriously, whats up with that price, thats insane!
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Jun 11, 2012 15:16
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And? The Losi Five-T body set is $310: http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/1-5-5ive-t-4wd-off-road-truck-black-bind-n-drive-LOSB0019BLKBD Hood/Front Fenders Body Section: 5IVE-T Price: Reg. $84.99 $76.49 Cab Body Section: 5IVE-T Price: Reg. $115.99 $104.39 Body Left Fender & # Plate: 5IVE-T Price: Reg. $42.99 $38.69 Body Right Fender & # Plate: 5IVE-T Price: Reg. $42.99 $38.69 5IVE-T Sticker & Graphic Sheet Set: Black Price: Reg. $54.99 $49.49 FG touring car and F1 bodies are over $250: http://www.fgsupply.com/search.cgi?Click+to+Search.x=0&Click+to+Search.y=0&keywords=body
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Jun 11, 2012 15:31
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krushgroove posted:And? The Losi Five-T body set is $310: http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/1-5-5ive-t-4wd-off-road-truck-black-bind-n-drive-LOSB0019BLKBD Another good reason not to mess with 1/5th scale, lol. 1/10th buggy body is < 20bux and comes with a couple wings. I wouldn't mind having one but you need a big area to have any fun, not to mention the absurd costs of running them (breakin' poo poo and replacing parts). We had our first race on our newly completed outdoor track this weekend. Things went pretty well and people loved having a big 1/8th oriented track to run on. As much as I hate the constant upkeep, cleaning, and tuning that comes with a nitro there's nothing like hearing one flat out SCREAM down a long straight.
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Jun 11, 2012 17:35
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krushgroove posted:And? Thats $200 for about $0.50 worth of lexan. Those other prices are crazy too. Just because other people are doing it doesnt justify it though. Even the $50 clear bodies for the slash are hard to swallow, but thats just nuts.
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Jun 11, 2012 20:15
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I'm well into Silly Internet Argument territory, but by that logic your Slash is about 2 bucks worth of plastic with about 5 bucks worth of wires and metal. It takes 3-4 guys *weeks* to make a body mold, a couple more weeks to make the graphics, the body guys have to repair molds, vacuforming machines are about $100,000 each (more for Baja-sized ones)...my point is it's not '50 cents worth of Lexan', sorry.
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Jun 11, 2012 20:30
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krushgroove posted:I'm well into Silly Internet Argument territory, but by that logic your Slash is about 2 bucks worth of plastic with about 5 bucks worth of wires and metal. It takes 3-4 guys *weeks* to make a body mold, a couple more weeks to make the graphics, the body guys have to repair molds, vacuforming machines are about $100,000 each (more for Baja-sized ones)...my point is it's not '50 cents worth of Lexan', sorry. You're absolutely right. The point is that those fixed costs are there for the $50 slash body as well. Granted a 5th scale body may take a different vacuforming machine to make than a 10th scale body, but I dont see why the costs should scale to 4x at that point.
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Jun 11, 2012 21:31
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ha, $300 for body panels on the losi? I will never ever own a 5th scale, I guess. 
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Jun 12, 2012 01:46
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Laserface posted:ha, $300 for body panels on the losi? But quality!!!!
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Jun 12, 2012 01:49
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krushgroove posted:I'm well into Silly Internet Argument territory, but by that logic your Slash is about 2 bucks worth of plastic with about 5 bucks worth of wires and metal. It takes 3-4 guys *weeks* to make a body mold, a couple more weeks to make the graphics, the body guys have to repair molds, vacuforming machines are about $100,000 each (more for Baja-sized ones)...my point is it's not '50 cents worth of Lexan', sorry. Maybe the people running the hobby business should take a business class because if they lower their prices by 10% they could probably increase sales 20%. They could work the ration until they had the optimum cost benefit. They could also look at selling the kit for a loss and make up in profits. Many manufacturers do this across all industries with success. Bottom line is that if they keep everything so price exclusive, they'll never open up the 1/5 market the way it should be. Gas engines are easier to tune and maintain than than nitro and they're way more fun than electric. The success of them should be a no brainer but the manufacturers wont fully get behind it outside of them being niche market. And that's why people turn to knockoffs as they should until the big names give it their full attention.
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Jun 12, 2012 01:56
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If you think a $800 1/5th scale is expensive, you've clearly never touched anything above 1/10th scale.
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Jun 12, 2012 04:25
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Clearly a $200 unpainted lexan body is par for the course then
Beve Stuscemi fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Jun 12, 2012 |
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Jun 12, 2012 04:28
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Anyway, you guys can keep whinging about how you've uncovered the R/C Car Manufacturing Illuminatti. Or we can go back to talking about toy cars.
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Jun 12, 2012 04:31
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kuffs posted:If you think a $800 1/5th scale is expensive, you've clearly never touched anything above 1/10th scale. Where's there an $800 complete 1/5 scale comparable to the HPI? And we are talking about rc cars. Nobody is talking about illuminati or whatever, please. Most people aren't gonna race a 1/5 scale buggies. There aren't many races going on for that scale. So the knock off stuff (especially ones that can use HPI parts) will do perfectly for 95% of people. People need to realize that as you decrease your scale the more likely you are to break parts when you crash or just do jumps. If the large companies would realize this the consumer could get a quality product for less money and the companies could maximize profits.
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Jun 12, 2012 05:37
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the cost of even 1/8 buggy kit rollers boggles my mind sometimes. On another discussion - does anyone feel like RC, mainly offroad classes, arent really that separate? I mean, buggy, truggy and now shortcourse all seem to use the same basic buggy chassis (3 diffs) rather than actually being their own class. They all just change arms and tires and call it a day and a new class. thats something I always liked about the MT class, was that it was always different models with different designs and strengths and weaknesses in comparison to each other. I mean take the body off a few truggies and try and tell me which model is which. it feels kind of stagnant when a new class comes out(short course) and model cos are quick to get on board but they just skip the RnD of a new model and make arms and wheels to fit their latest and greatest buggy kit. I mean there is a lot of differences between each of those classes, but within the classes it just seems like a lack of innovation on the designers behalf.
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Jun 12, 2012 05:45
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While I agree, I think it's great because it reduces cost. The handling characteristics are unique to each class.
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Jun 12, 2012 05:47
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Laserface posted:the cost of even 1/8 buggy kit rollers boggles my mind sometimes. There's a ton of parts sharing that goes on between a given manufacturer's line that's for sure, but it's for good reason (and ties into what was discussed for the past few posts.... cost). There are quite a few differences between most buggies and truggies though. Different shocks, longer chassis, longer chassis braces to match, different diff gear ratios, arms, CVAs, wheels, tires, etc. The layout is close to the same because it works. However, I'm definitely drawn to new designs... That's why I was so interested by the TLR 22 when it came out. There was nothing else on the market like it at the time, and it was a complete fresh groundup redesign for Losi. It's also why I'm so drat interested in the new Tekno e buggy.
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Jun 12, 2012 05:57
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Looking at Neobuggy and RedRC every day, the only way I can tell the TCs, buggies and truggies apart is hoping to see a molding or sticker with the car manufacturer's name on the chassis. It's one reason I'm into scale stuff right now, and have been for a couple years.front wing flexing posted:Maybe the people running the hobby business should take a business class because if they lower their prices by 10% they could probably increase sales 20%. They could work the ration until they had the optimum cost benefit. They could also look at selling the kit for a loss and make up in profits. Many manufacturers do this across all industries with success. Olde Weird Tip posted:Clearly a $200 unpainted lexan body is par for the course then It's a hobby, a luxury. You don't have to save up for a 1/5th scale (or even a 1/24th scale), the same way you don't have to save up for a Ducati motorcycle or Mercedes. As far as taking business classes, "Economy of scale" is one phrase that comes to mind, which is one reason why large scale stuff is so much more expensive. And companies like Thunder Tiger, Tower and Horizon (that have gobbled up other companies like AE and Losi, among others)...I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing when it comes to running the prices for various product lines. As far as opening up gas engines to new people: http://www.rcdriver.com/rcd/index.php/its-a-gas-rtr-savage-xl-with-gasoline-engine/ (I know it's not 1/5th but the technology trickle-down is there)
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Jun 12, 2012 08:16
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I was being tongue in cheek about the business class comment. I'm sure they know way more than I about running a large scale business. Yes, it is a luxury hobby but that doesn't mean they should shamelessly gouge prices. In the end, I think if they didn't do that they'd actually make more money on 1/5 scale. And I'm envious of you if can just drop about $1500 on a 1/5 scale. I make good money and I have to save up to drop that kind of cash.
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Jun 12, 2012 12:24
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