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They make more money selling Buicks than Chevys. In a year or two they will offer the Cruze with the turbo motor.
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Jun 12, 2012 23:17
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The one thing I've always wondered about the approach to Buick is the condition of the aftermarket. Sure, GM positions the Regal (and now Verano) as a more youth-orientated vehicle, but has the aftermarket played around much with them? Does GM performance offer their awesome turbo upgrade kit for the Regal under the car's warranty? I get the feeling that the Buicks can be just as great performance-wise as the Cobalt SS, without the image that comes along with them. But it appears GM is holding off on seriously putting performance into them because of the Buick name or whatever their strategy is. I've briefly considered the Cobalt SS turbo as a car, but didn't jump because of the typical owner and would like to see the Buick get picked up by the aftermarket. My theory is that GM does not want to cannibalize sales of the V6 Camaro with a capable sporty car at the same price point, so we will may never have a car like the Cobalt SS again. I'm very surprised that GM is considering the new Holden in up here, but all indications are that this car will be very limited production and may come at a price point that will protect the Camaro SS. I really liked the GM model line in the pre-bankruptcy period of 2003 to 2009MY (especially 08-09). There was so many different choices (both good and bad). Cobalt SS (supercharged, then turbo), G8, CTS-V (NA at a decent price), G6 coupes, supercharged and V8-powered W-bodies, Silverado/Trailblazer SS, Kappa roadsters (including turbo'd), etc. There were so many choices with lots of overlap - of course this was a waste of money. But it was interesting and you had options within a segment. Nowadays, you get the Camaro, Corvette or CTS-V - that's it. And GM protects this by holding back on things like Buick. I don't like the Camaro and the Corvette/CTS-V are too expensive for me. I understand the economic reasoning for this - but I want an affordable LSx in something not the Camaro!
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Jun 13, 2012 00:18
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RE: FWD turbo V6 cars, is everyone forgetting about the Ecoboost? 3 of 4 vehicles with it are transverse FWD platforms.
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Jun 13, 2012 00:38
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Fucknag posted:RE: FWD turbo V6 cars, is everyone forgetting about the Ecoboost? 3 of 4 vehicles with it are transverse FWD platforms. Or the 3000GT?
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Jun 13, 2012 01:11
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Jay-Zeus posted:The one thing I've always wondered about the approach to Buick is the condition of the aftermarket. Sure, GM positions the Regal (and now Verano) as a more youth-orientated vehicle, but has the aftermarket played around much with them? Does GM performance offer their awesome turbo upgrade kit for the Regal under the car's warranty? Buicks have longer warrantys than Chevys so it would probably cost more. Buick is shaping up to go against Lexus and Acura. There will be mild performance cars like the GS and Verano Turbo, but they are also bringing out hybrid versions of the Regal and Lacrosse too. The Lacrosse is now available with only a hybrid powertrain for the I4, with the V6 a no cost option.
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Jun 13, 2012 01:42
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Jay-Zeus posted:I don't like the Camaro and the Corvette/CTS-V are too expensive for me. I understand the economic reasoning for this - but I want an affordable LSx in something not the Camaro! I think this is the big picture that GM and Ford are missing. To them, it seems like "fun car" is just another segment, much like "large sedan" or "compact crossover" in which it is prudent that each company have just a single offering. However, there are lots of people in the world like like fun cars, but not every one of those people are in agreement as to what constitutes a fun car. Companies that offer just one fun car at certain price points are missing out on an opportunity to grab extra market share. The WRX soaks up about 20-30k units in the U.S., if Ford could steal just half of those, in would result in a 10% increase in Focus sales comprised entirely of a high-margin trim level. I think Bob Lutz understood that and tried to capitalize on it. Unfortunately, the economic collapse diminished any hope that GM's turn around would inspire other auto makers. Maybe once the economy recovers, Alan Mulally will look back to the era when GM turned itself around and realize that there is market for more fun cars in their lineup. Hopefully it will result in a return of SVT and maybe a two seat roadster and a (few) RWD sedan(s). Part of me hopes that he will be able to justify making "redundant" cars by creating them under the Lincoln marquee.
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Jun 13, 2012 06:13
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oRenj9 posted:I think this is the big picture that GM and Ford are missing. To them, it seems like "fun car" is just another segment, much like "large sedan" or "compact crossover" in which it is prudent that each company have just a single offering. Lots of these amateur analyses ignore that each new variation of a car is expensive, incredibly so. That's why you've seen things like power windows and air conditioning become standard; the extra margins available from price discrimination are outweighed by the costs of having more lines of parts and more choices during assembly.
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Jun 13, 2012 12:28
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Right now you can get: - A turbo 248 hp Ford Focus - A turbo 240hp Ford Escape - A twin turbo 350hp AWD Ford Explorer with bigger brakes, suspension and chassis stiffening - A twin turbo 355hp AWD Ford Flex minivan - A twin turbo 365hp AWD Ford Taurus - A twin turbo 365hp F-150 - Lincoln versions of the Flex and Taurus ...but according to forums poster oRenj9,  Ford just doesn't offer enough fun cars in its lineup!
Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Jun 13, 2012 |
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Jun 13, 2012 12:44
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Throatwarbler posted:Right now you can get: "None of those are RWD with a stick shift  "
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Jun 13, 2012 12:57
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Throatwarbler posted:Right now you can get: You've got a weird idea of "fun"
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Jun 13, 2012 14:05
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Faerunner posted:You've got a weird idea of "fun" You've got a very narrow definition of "fun".
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Jun 13, 2012 14:30
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KozmoNaut posted:You've got a very narrow definition of "fun". This is much more accurate.
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Jun 13, 2012 14:37
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KozmoNaut posted:You've got a very narrow definition of "fun". Well... I can't deny that. Enjoy your minivan I guess.
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Jun 13, 2012 14:40
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If only Ford still made the GT, every one of your arguments would be moot. The obvious solution is to retool up for the GT and call it a day.
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Jun 13, 2012 14:45
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Faerunner posted:Well... I can't deny that. Enjoy your minivan I guess. You bet I would if it had a twin-turbo 355hp V6 and AWD.
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Jun 13, 2012 14:45
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KozmoNaut posted:You bet I would if it had a twin-turbo 355hp V6 and AWD. I imagine the thinking is that if you want a fun car that whips around and goes fast, you can do that a lot more efficiently with a not-minivan. CornHolio posted:If only Ford still made the GT, every one of your arguments would be moot. I'd love to see the GT again, but would Ford then run into Chevy's problem where they refuse to have a pony car with more power than their flagship? Do you think if they did bring it back it would get more power than the Mustang gt 500?
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Jun 13, 2012 14:53
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Now that I'm officially An Old Person, the idea of a comfortable cruiser with AWD and 350+ HP is awesome as heck. Ford is not targeting people who want a 2300lb RWD sports car for $20k. They are targeting people who want more power in their practical comfortable good-looking vehicles with well-appointed interiors.
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Jun 13, 2012 15:20
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What are the main differences between the 2012 and 2013 Mazda 6s?
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Jun 13, 2012 15:58
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Wamsutta posted:Now that I'm officially An Old Person, the idea of a comfortable cruiser with AWD and 350+ HP is awesome as heck. Ford is not targeting people who want a 2300lb RWD sports car for $20k. They are targeting people who want more power in their practical comfortable good-looking vehicles with well-appointed interiors. The Taurus SHO was designed to compete against the BMW 5 Series. Not sure how successful they've been, but the SHO is a drat nice car. If my commute wasn't so long, I would trade my Fusion Sport in for one now there are some reasonable used cpo models out there. Now that I'm older as well my tastes have changed as well. My budget has also increased, I'm not limited to a 20K car like I was back in the day of my SRT-4. I really want to drive a new Explorer Sport, my wife has a 2012 Explorer and we just finished a 2,000 mile roadtrip in it, and the gas mileage was terrible. Fully loaded (5 people + luggage) I did find I had to work it a little harder than I would have liked, but I was fighting great plains wind a good chunk of the way. I wonder what the extra 60HP does to the SUV. Too bad it will be about 3 years before I can really consider it.
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Jun 13, 2012 16:14
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Broken Dictionary posted:What are the main differences between the 2012 and 2013 Mazda 6s? Nothing. According to Edmunds the cars are the exact same except for larger 18" wheels available on a couple of the Touring models.
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Jun 13, 2012 16:16
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skipdogg posted:The Taurus SHO was designed to compete against the BMW 5 Series. Not sure how successful they've been, but the SHO is a drat nice car. If my commute wasn't so long, I would trade my Fusion Sport in for one now there are some reasonable used cpo models out there. My dad just got a '13 SHO a week ago. I got to ride in it on Friday. It's huge, comfortable and full of crazy technology. For the $40k price tag, if you want a big, heavy, fast car it's pretty drat nice. I haven't been in a new 5-series. I'm sure it's classier and probably feels better to drive, but in terms of comfort and technology (especially for the cost) I think the Ford may have it beat.
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Jun 13, 2012 16:20
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I recently got the 2012 Optima SX which I believe uses the same Microsoft Sync/UVO system that Ford uses and it's way more technology than I care to deal with. I wish it had buttons for more functions instead of the touchscreen, and I hope there's a firmware update to fix the way it handles mp3's in the usb explorer mode. Microsoft why on earth would I want to play all the songs on an album alphabetically by song title instead of by the track number in the filename? Appetite for Destruction should START with Welcome to the Jungle, not have it second from last!
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Jun 13, 2012 17:45
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KozmoNaut posted:You bet I would if it had a twin-turbo 355hp V6 and AWD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuJTmXH1U_4 They are pretty awesome.
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Jun 13, 2012 17:57
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davebo posted:I recently got the 2012 Optima SX which I believe uses the same Microsoft Sync/UVO system that Ford uses and it's way more technology than I care to deal with. I wish it had buttons for more functions instead of the touchscreen, and I hope there's a firmware update to fix the way it handles mp3's in the usb explorer mode. Microsoft why on earth would I want to play all the songs on an album alphabetically by song title instead of by the track number in the filename? Appetite for Destruction should START with Welcome to the Jungle, not have it second from last! UVO is a bit different then SYNC even though it was also developed by Microsoft Have you tried using all the voice commands in lieu of using the touch screen? Thats kind of the point of the system.
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Jun 13, 2012 18:00
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skipdogg posted:Nothing. According to Edmunds the cars are the exact same except for larger 18" wheels available on a couple of the Touring models. Yeah I called the dealership and apparently the 2013 comes with larger wheels, moon roof, and some sort of new alarm system stuff. But the price isn't that different between the 2012 or 2013... oh decisions decisions!
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Jun 13, 2012 19:21
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Broken Dictionary posted:Yeah I called the dealership and apparently the 2013 comes with larger wheels, moon roof, and some sort of new alarm system stuff. But the price isn't that different between the 2012 or 2013... oh decisions decisions! Here, I will help you.   
Mental Hospitality fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jun 13, 2012 |
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Jun 13, 2012 19:30
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Edit: ^^ I really wanted to wait and test drive that but just couldn't resist getting the Optima now and having A/C for the summer. Has Ford released any fuel economy numbers for the 2.0L turbo yet?kill me now posted:UVO is a bit different then SYNC even though it was also developed by Microsoft The voice commands are cute but hardly give the same functionality of navigating the touchscreen. The Alpine unit I'm coming from had its own unique way of doing things which I didn't really agree with either, but it was the sort of thing I could use without looking directly at. This touchscreen I tend to just wait until the next stop light before I even bother with because it's more distracting than texting. I feel like with all the groups trying to ban cell phone use entirely in cars that we shouldn't even be giving people the option of complex interfaces. One thing they could do to help a lot would just be to make better use of the screen space. They allocate huge space for non-essential stuff and make the artist/songname/station tiny little text. You know what'd be really cool is configurable buttons on steering wheels. My last car I had 11 years and I don't think I used cruise control once. I'd love to take those cruise control buttons and turn them into next/previous folder buttons. davebo fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jun 13, 2012 |
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Jun 13, 2012 20:01
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SouthLAnd posted:Here, I will help you. If i could get the AWD version for less than 32k Ford, I would buy that!  It's an Aston for only 32k... 
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Jun 13, 2012 21:12
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KozmoNaut posted:"None of those are RWD with a stick shift If only Ford had been making an RWD with a stick shift for the last 48 years
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Jun 13, 2012 22:32
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BonzoESC posted:If only Ford had been making an RWD with a stick shift for the last 48 years But it's too heavy and it doesn't handle well, based on the one I drove for 10 minutes several years ago!
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Jun 13, 2012 22:41
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sanchez posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuJTmXH1U_4 There's something about the Flex ecoboost that hits the spot for me. The kind of people who buy a minivan/wagon for their family, but make sure it has 350hp and AWD are the kind of people worth meeting. Kind of like the CTS-V wagon or the E63 wagon.
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Jun 14, 2012 00:56
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bidikyoopi posted:There's something about the Flex ecoboost that hits the spot for me. The kind of people who buy a minivan/wagon for their family, but make sure it has 350hp and AWD are the kind of people worth meeting. Kind of like the CTS-V wagon or the E63 wagon.
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Jun 14, 2012 02:15
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How are you like your Optima overall, though? I'm interested in it, but I'm a bit hesitant to jump into a Kia just yet.
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Jun 14, 2012 03:26
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Agro ver Haus doom posted:How are you like your Optima overall, though? I'm interested in it, but I'm a bit hesitant to jump into a Kia just yet. I think the initial quality is fantastic. It's leagues beyond anything I've owned certainly. The SX has this cloth mesh accent on the seats but I have no faith that that's still going to be in tact ten years from now. Having 274hp in my daily driver is a delightful change. I can't speak for the handling in the normal models because the SX has a different suspension, but the sx handles very well. The tires it comes with aren't amazing but they're fine for the first few years then I'll change them. I'd definitely recommend it as you'll get more for the money than the upcoming Fusion, but I'd probably wait and test drive that since it'll be out in the fall and looks great. Less power but it may get better fuel economy. I do know that if you get the hybrid the rear seats don't fold down so that wasn't even an option for me. Mmm, the only other thing I can think of is that the AC blows too hard on the lowest setting. I like the lowest setting to be a light breeze but it just whooshes out pretty noisily. I think there are like 7 settings but I've never put it past 1. Oh and at the position I like the steering wheel it's hard to see the 80-160mph side of the speedometer. As for just being nervous about getting a Kia, I have to believe there's a reason they're winning all these awards lately and everyone saying how far they've come in the last ten years. That being said, I keep cars a long time and no one can tell you how these new models will hold up ten years from now.
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Jun 14, 2012 04:35
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Left Ventricle posted:The Flex is the only new car any company makes that I would consider buying, but it has a flaw, at least in my opinion. According to the Ford configuration site, if you want an Ecoboost Flex, you cannot have seven seats. If you want seven seats, you can't have the Ecoboost. They are mutually exclusive. I'm sure you could call Ford up and have them make one for you with all the seats... or can you? Can you still get a car made how you want, or are you limited to whatever options packages they offer and tough if they don't match your wants/needs? The AWD system that is bundled with the EcoBoost engine probably imposes packaging constraints on the extra row of seats. It's similar to how the Nissan Juke can be manual or AWD, but not both.
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Jun 14, 2012 13:30
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I still don't understand why you can't get a Cruze with the 1.4t, manual, and IRS.
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Jun 14, 2012 14:28
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sliderule posted:I still don't understand why you can't get a Cruze with the 1.4t, manual, and IRS. Do any of the US market ones have IRS? http://www.chevrolet.com/cruze-compact-car/features-specs/
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Jun 14, 2012 14:30
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davebo posted:I think the initial quality is fantastic. It's leagues beyond anything I've owned certainly. The SX has this cloth mesh accent on the seats but I have no faith that that's still going to be in tact ten years from now. Having 274hp in my daily driver is a delightful change. I can't speak for the handling in the normal models because the SX has a different suspension, but the sx handles very well. The tires it comes with aren't amazing but they're fine for the first few years then I'll change them. I'd definitely recommend it as you'll get more for the money than the upcoming Fusion, but I'd probably wait and test drive that since it'll be out in the fall and looks great. Less power but it may get better fuel economy. Ah thanks for the info! Did you get to try out the Hyundai Sonata by chance? The Sonata and Optima seem like very similar vehicles and I was wondering why you chose the Kia over the Hyundai (assuming you test drove both). I heard the seats are rather stiff on the Optima, what do you think?
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Jun 14, 2012 14:56
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BonzoESC posted:The AWD system that is bundled with the EcoBoost engine probably imposes packaging constraints on the extra row of seats. It's similar to how the Nissan Juke can be manual or AWD, but not both. There are two seating schemes for the Flex, the 7 seater is bench seats for the 2nd and 3rd rows, the premium option swaps in 2 reclining bucket seats for the 2nd row. So it has nothing to do with the power train. Anyway I looked on Ford's website and for both 2012 and 13 you can get 2nd row bench seats with the turbo and AWD. sliderule posted:I still don't understand why you can't get a Cruze with the 1.4t, manual, and IRS. I've never read a review that lists lack of IRS on the Cruze as a negative. It drives just as well or better as a Civic or Focus. If that's what's holding you back then you probably were never going to buy a Cruze anyway. Maybe the new Dodge Dart, which can be had with a 1.4t(with more power than the Cruze), manual, and IRS is more your thing. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Jun 14, 2012 |
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Jun 14, 2012 16:29
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davebo posted:Mmm, the only other thing I can think of is that the AC blows too hard on the lowest setting. I like the lowest setting to be a light breeze but it just whooshes out pretty noisily. I think there are like 7 settings but I've never put it past 1. That's funny...I bought a Kia Forte5 SX a year ago and what drives me nuts is that the lowest setting on the air conditioning is too low!! It barely puts out anything, but if I'm just parked somewhere with the air running, the next highest setting is too high. Pretty much my only gripe with the car (aside from the touchy-as-gently caress clutch/throttle).
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Jun 14, 2012 19:19
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