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QuarkJets posted:I want to do some day trading with some extra cash that I have. I can easily put about $5k into this safely (as in it could become $0 and I'd be okay financially, just upset that I lost $5k). Is this dumb? Do you need to start off with a lot of money in order to get anywhere when it comes to day trading? Would I just be wasting my time reading the literature if I didn't start off with a much larger base? I don't know if you should approach it like that since it might make you take more risk than you should.
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Jun 13, 2012 13:59
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So I was gifted a shitload of DELL a long, long time ago, back in the 90s before the last time it split. Anyway, I've been watching it perform like poo poo and the company not do anything about it until Monday I said gently caress it and I sold all of it, at a significant loss because I honestly thought the company could end up in low single digits at the rate it's been going. I was tired of holding out for a dividend or a move to go private and if those dickholes didn't announce a dividend the day after I sell it.
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Jun 13, 2012 14:32
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QuarkJets posted:I want to do some day trading with some extra cash that I have. I can easily put about $5k into this safely (as in it could become $0 and I'd be okay financially, just upset that I lost $5k). Is this dumb? Do you need to start off with a lot of money in order to get anywhere when it comes to day trading? Would I just be wasting my time reading the literature if I didn't start off with a much larger base? Your account won't have enough assets to be allowed to daytrade unless you have more cash in it that you are not actively trading. Can I interest you in option trading if you want some nice risk reward?
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Jun 13, 2012 15:07
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Elephanthead posted:Your account won't have enough assets to be allowed to daytrade unless you have more cash in it that you are not actively trading. Do you just mean that QuarkJets can't do "pattern daytrading," i.e. more than 4 round-trip trades in 5 business days? I believe any account can buy and sell inside of a day, just not too often, no?
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Jun 13, 2012 15:18
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COUNTIN THE BILLIES posted:Bloomberg terminals are a HUGE waste of money nowadays. The traders I know who have them are forced to have them from the company they work for and they barely use them. So what do the traders use for real time informations these days?
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Jun 13, 2012 16:19
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Sigh.. my dad has had the unfortunate pleasure of learning how to use the internet, so now every seeking alpha article and penny stock picking/ naked put website is like godsend. It was much easier when it was just all about watching AGNC go up.
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Jun 13, 2012 18:09
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COUNTIN THE BILLIES posted:Bloomberg terminals are a HUGE waste of money nowadays. The traders I know who have them are forced to have them from the company they work for and they barely use them.  Must be some lovely trading firm then. Bloomberg along with FactSet and Datastreaam are pretty much de facto at most legit places.
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Jun 13, 2012 18:50
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QuarkJets posted:I want to do some day trading with some extra cash that I have. I can easily put about $5k into this safely (as in it could become $0 and I'd be okay financially, just upset that I lost $5k). Is this dumb? Do you need to start off with a lot of money in order to get anywhere when it comes to day trading? You need $25,000 to be able to day trade, and you need to ensure that you have enough in the account so that when you inevitably have a few bad days in a row you aren't below the $25k threshold. I'd aim for $30k+ so that you can lose a bit and potentially have some margin so you can do a larger trade if something takes a huge dip for the day.
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Jun 13, 2012 18:52
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Elephanthead posted:Your account won't have enough assets to be allowed to daytrade unless you have more cash in it that you are not actively trading. You can; I'm reading the options basics on Investopedia right now, have any suggestions in particular?
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Jun 13, 2012 19:57
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Turkeybone posted:Sigh.. my dad has had the unfortunate pleasure of learning how to use the internet, so now every seeking alpha article and penny stock picking/ naked put website is like godsend. It was much easier when it was just all about watching AGNC go up. Not every article is bad. He first needs to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff or the news from the noise.
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Jun 13, 2012 21:43
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Yeah, it's not so much the Seeking Alpha as it is every stock picking service he wants to try out for a month and just have it be "eh, its only 50 - 100 bucks".
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Jun 13, 2012 22:49
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shrike82 posted:
It's 3k a month for crappy charting and info you can look up for free on Wikipedia. They are de facto at most places because the firms pay for them. Otherwise, I would stay away. Shrinkage posted:So what do the traders use for real time informations these days? The internet. People aren't restricted to use only Bloomberg or Reuters terminals anymore thank god.
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Jun 14, 2012 01:17
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COUNTIN THE BILLIES posted:
You're kidding, right? Besides the host of information on commodities, it's also pretty handy for fundamental analysis (although S&P's CapitalIQ is good for this), up-to-date pricing information on credit instruments, etc.
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Jun 14, 2012 01:26
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Dreaming Android posted:You're kidding, right? Besides the host of information on commodities, it's also pretty handy for fundamental analysis (although S&P's CapitalIQ is good for this), up-to-date pricing information on credit instruments, etc. No I'm not. You want to pay that much for the same info you could get anywhere on the internet for free? I could see wanting the wire service but there are ways around that and I've never thought it was worth it. And there are better charting services to get the latest prices.
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Jun 14, 2012 01:31
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Turkeybone posted:Yeah, it's not so much the Seeking Alpha as it is every stock picking service he wants to try out for a month and just have it be "eh, its only 50 - 100 bucks". Yeah those sites are a mess. One good test on those sites is position disclosure. Does the person disclose his or her positions? Do they include options and warrants? Are they known as promoters? Check out where their stuff is posted? Do they do any radio shows on quality websites? Even if they do it should not take the place of doing your own homework.
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Jun 14, 2012 02:06
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NOK cuts 10,000 jobs and 16% off its market cap. It's now worth less than LinkedIn.
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Jun 14, 2012 14:54
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Ola posted:NOK cuts 10,000 jobs and 16% off its market cap. It's now worth less than LinkedIn. I just saw that lol.
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Jun 14, 2012 15:32
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It's almost like it's a terrible company. Oddly enough, the bid/ask right now is 176,000/177,00.
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Jun 14, 2012 15:34
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It's almost like it's restructuring.
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Jun 14, 2012 15:38
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Yeah, my friends company did some restructuring as well. http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=PNSN
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Jun 14, 2012 15:43
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Cool I have such a friend too: http://www.google.com/finance?cid=13606 My point being is that NOK has a strong brand, bucketloads of patents etc., and it shouldn't be written off as easily as it is by a lot of people.
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Jun 14, 2012 16:42
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It looks like the big news is really that they're putting (some of?) their patent portfolio up for sale. The rest of today's announcements seem to have been a long time coming. But that bit makes me question my resolve to ride this thing all the way to the bottom. Without that portfolio they are no longer a feasible takeover target, and don't have a clear revenue stream. It's very much a desperate bet-the-company move. Either it gives them enough cash to get the next generation of devices out the door and they hit big, or the company folds.
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Jun 14, 2012 17:51
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Turkeybone posted:Sigh.. my dad has had the unfortunate pleasure of learning how to use the internet, so now every seeking alpha article and penny stock picking/ naked put website is like godsend. It was much easier when it was just all about watching AGNC go up. 
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Jun 14, 2012 17:52
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Ola posted:NOK cuts 10,000 jobs and 16% off its market cap. It's now worth less than LinkedIn. I don't even know what to think of NOK anymore. Are they hoping to be bought? edit: iPhone 5 is coming "soon" and that can't be good for NOK PRADA SLUT fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Jun 14, 2012 |
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Jun 14, 2012 18:11
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TUBALLINATOR posted:Cool I have such a friend too: They don't have a strong brand, they're selling off their patents, and the only positive thing you hear about them is maybe they'll be bought out.
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Jun 14, 2012 18:20
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AGNC  Also my FB seems to have been a nice pickup, though I really don't even know what to do with it heh. It was just 100 shares so whatevs.
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Jun 14, 2012 18:36
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quote:They don't have a strong brand
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Jun 14, 2012 19:31
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Harry posted:They don't have a strong brand, they're selling off their patents, and the only positive thing you hear about them is maybe they'll be bought out. Also I think they're about to sell off their super high-end phone business (the bedazzled 6 figure cell phones they sell to royalty and the like).
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Jun 14, 2012 19:54
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TUBALLINATOR posted:They most definitely do. Maybe not in the states, but Nokia is still very much a known and strong brand around the world Their market share has been dropping in pretty much every market in the ME/Africa, they're starting to lose out on their non smart phone divison, and they're taking on massive restructuring costs to go head to head against Apple and Samsung. Combine this with the massive layoff of workers and management along with their "it's actually going to be worse than we thought" correction to the Q2 results, I doubt their market share is rebounding.
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Jun 14, 2012 20:00
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TUBALLINATOR posted:Cool I have such a friend too: Yes it should.
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Jun 14, 2012 22:34
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Nokia used to be a hot brand. Their failure to deliver cool smartphones has ruined that. "The third world needs their dumbphones" is just wrong, low income users might make do with dumbphones but they want iPhones and Galaxys and shiny swirly touchy things. If Microsoft doesn't want them, I don't know who does. Selling their patents might be one way to soften the final blow for the shareholders, because after all that's pretty much all they have at this point. But if Microsoft wants to sell mobile OSes, whose hardware will it otherwise be on?
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Jun 14, 2012 23:15
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So with all the uncertainty going into the weekend, surprised the VIX is so low... Hope you guys got into NOK at a good price. Hope it wasn't $40... COUNTIN THE BILLIES fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jun 14, 2012 |
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Jun 14, 2012 23:26
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If there was a 0% chance NOK would be bought, would you still invest?
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Jun 14, 2012 23:32
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I'm still a believer in NOK resurrecting itself as a smaller but significant player long term, but I decided to bow to 'the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent' axiom a couple of weeks ago and got out down around 35%. Pretty much wrecked my returns for the past 12 months, but I had some good plays elsewhere that offset it somewhat. After todays washout, I'll probably watch it for a couple of weeks and if it keeps going down take a 'ride it to zero or $10' position.PRADA SLUT posted:If there was a 0% chance NOK would be bought, would you still invest? I think there's very close to 0 chance of them being bought, ,but there will definitely be significant divestitures. And yes, I would. It's really nothing but a lottery ticket with better than lottery ticket odds- it's purely a speculative play at this point. Their execution over the past 6 months has been impressively incompetent.
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Jun 15, 2012 04:54
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greasyhands posted:I'm still a believer in NOK resurrecting itself as a smaller but significant player long term, but I decided to bow to 'the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent' axiom a couple of weeks ago and got out down around 35%. Pretty much wrecked my returns for the past 12 months, but I had some good plays elsewhere that offset it somewhat. After todays washout, I'll probably watch it for a couple of weeks and if it keeps going down take a 'ride it to zero or $10' position. Even if the market comes back Nokia is going to have to show something on the level of an iPhone with the next product release.
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Jun 15, 2012 15:12
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greasyhands posted:I'm still a believer in NOK resurrecting itself as a smaller but significant player long term evilwaldo posted:Even if the market comes back Nokia is going to have to show something on the level of an iPhone with the next product release. They'd need to show something far and away better than anything Samsung, HTC, or Apple has to offer AND they need to somehow out-market everyone since Android and iOS have such a foothold. Even then, they'll likely barely chip off more than a sliver of total sales. They're doomed, IMO.
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Jun 16, 2012 01:24
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Dr. Eldarion posted:Why? What have they done that has shown they can pull this off? I just remember when they lost a ton of market share because they ignored the clamshell fad, it wasn't as bad as this but it was a similar situation. Realizing they still sell more cell phones than anyone else except Samsung and have very valuable brand recognition (yes, still). They have an unmatched global distribution network and can push products into the global market much faster than everyone else. Realizing the smartphone market is far from mature and both leading platforms are very problematic- carriers hate the Apple sales model and Android is a fragmented wreck that no one wants to develop for- which leaves an opening for the most powerful software company on the planet to wedge their way in by pure force (Microsoft, if anyone somehow doesn't follow) with a platform that has admittedly been slow to catch on but is definitely a nice platform and a pretty intelligently designed middle-ground between the android and iphone models. AT&T is just beginning its windows phone push and Verizon has said it's going to push just as hard once windows 8 comes out- this simply can't be ignored. People are looking for market share miracles with Windows Phone, which I think is wrongheaded. AT&T only sells like 5-9 million smartphones a quarter (9 last 4th quarter and 5 in the 1st Q of 2012), and something liek 70-80% of them are iphones, so somehow expecting the 900 to come out of the gate selling millions is just silly. There are reports that it is outselling the iphone4, and most channel checks have it as the 2nd best selling smartphone at AT&T stores. http://wmpoweruser.com/analyst-channel-checks-find-nokia-lumia-900-outselling-the-htc-one-x/ I know people laugh at the 'Windows 8 is going to be the real deal' line, and it's somewhat fair to do that, because Windows phone 7 was rushed out and is based on a very old platform and has limitations that were very clearly idiotic/lazy/whatever to have in a modern phone OS but Windows 8 is going to fix most, if not all, of these. People, as usual, try to simplify the argument into black and white terms, but the fact is, windows phone 7 was a seriously lacking OS with seriously lacking carrier and devicemaker support, but it is showing a little bit of traction with Nokia behind it and windows 8 looks to be much improved by all parties involved- device makers, carrier support, and Microsoft finally coming around and 'getting it'. Nokia-Siemens network, which is generally completely ignored when talking about NOK valuation for whatever reason, despite being enormous, has recently won several large contracts and is on its way to being cash flow positive. Patents, Patents, Patents, and Patents. The exact numbers aren't disclosed, but NOK gets something like $5 for every iphone sold. Once they downsize and get costs under control, they have the potential to be an enormous cash cow. They are getting more aggressive with their patent litigation, which as a consumer I don't like but as an investor I have to appreciate the potential revenue. None of these things are 'givens' but they are all relevant and true and make me believe NOK has a significantly better chance than 0 to revive itself and its current price is a bankruptcy price. Like I said, it's a gamble but when you sit down and look at all the possibilities, its a gamble I want to take. I've been very wrong about the valuation so far, but that isn't surprising as its nearly impossible to catch bottoms in situations like this. greasyhands fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Jun 16, 2012 |
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Jun 16, 2012 07:49
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Dear MSFT, I am glad you make shitballs of money, but that doesn't mean you should blow it on buying fancy companies for yourself. You should save it for a rainy day.
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Jun 16, 2012 09:49
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How do premiums paid for calls or puts work, tax-wise? If someone purchases a call or put and they end up expiring without being exercised do they even play a part come tax time? Same for premiums received. If someone sells a call or put and it is never assigned, what kind of income is the premium reported as?
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Jun 16, 2012 19:25
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Eh I'm not touching NOK since I'm in ALU right now. Bought at $2, down to 1.56 now but I plan on holding it for a while. Also going to buy GM on Monday. COUNTIN THE BILLIES fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jun 17, 2012 |
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Jun 16, 2012 23:50
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