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Minrad posted:What problems did 3 have? Mostly the poorly balanced jobs, the bosses getting two attacks per turn, and the final dungeon. They somehow made it less fun to play through than the NES version.
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Jun 13, 2012 23:17
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voltron lion force posted:I think that all that pseudo-historical stuff that Matsuno does makes for a really interesting RPG but it doesn't seem to go over well with FF fans since the series is almost always focused squarely on the characters. It worked a lot better in Tactics I guess. I think it worked in Tactics because Tactics wasn't actually about killing god or dealing with the Lion War or whatever, but in fact about punching a Goblin so hard that its Power and Speed were reduced to 1 so you could sit uninterrupted in the corner for five hours having Ramza shout at his party.
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Jun 13, 2012 23:17
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Barudak posted:Yeah the "it plays the game for you" thing is silly since you can not only manually control everything but a lot of boss fights can be expedited significantly through proper gambit setup and planning which is the core of the gameplay. Which is why playing the vanilla version is terrible because you don't have all the gambits. People made the same argument for FFXIII and it didn't seem to convince anyone. Both make it a lot more difficult to manually control than just using what the system provides. Unfortunately, XII can be tuned to where you don't have to press anything, whereas XIII at least requires Paradigm Shifting all the time.
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Jun 13, 2012 23:47
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Azure_Horizon posted:People made the same argument for FFXIII and it didn't seem to convince anyone. Both make it a lot more difficult to manually control than just using what the system provides. Unfortunately, XII can be tuned to where you don't have to press anything, whereas XIII at least requires Paradigm Shifting all the time. I'm an hour in, I guess I haven't started the Paradigm shifting yet.  I'm having fun though! It's also a really pretty game.
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Jun 14, 2012 00:16
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der juicen posted:I'm an hour in, I guess I haven't started the Paradigm shifting yet. That's because you haven't needed to as you don't have characters with multiple roles yet. It'll happen soon.
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Jun 14, 2012 00:23
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Azure_Horizon posted:People made the same argument for FFXIII and it didn't seem to convince anyone. Both make it a lot more difficult to manually control than just using what the system provides. Unfortunately, XII can be tuned to where you don't have to press anything, whereas XIII at least requires Paradigm Shifting all the time. I would have had zero problems with paradigm shifting if it had been automated. Instead, 90% of the battle functions are optimized and streamlined except one and its not exactly a thrill a minute to do. That and the game's stubborness towards letting you actually use that system for like 20 hours sours most people, myself included. "Ok, you've seen paradigms but we won't let you make your own for another 3 hours. Also, we took the scissors away and replaced them with safety scissors"
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Jun 14, 2012 00:41
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Barudak posted:I would have had zero problems with paradigm shifting if it had been automated. Instead, 90% of the battle functions are optimized and streamlined except one and its not exactly a thrill a minute to do. That and the game's stubborness towards letting you actually use that system for like 20 hours sours most people. How could you possibly automate paradigm shifting? And furthermore, what would be the point? You'd almost need to set up a Gambit-like system, at which point you might as well be playing FF12 instead.
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Jun 14, 2012 00:43
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quote:@PhilippAchtel has successfully pre-registered for #FFV4JF2012! Oh my god, what have I done... Azure_Horizon posted:People made the same argument for FFXIII and it didn't seem to convince anyone. Both make it a lot more difficult to manually control than just using what the system provides. Unfortunately, XII can be tuned to where you don't have to press anything, whereas XIII at least requires Paradigm Shifting all the time. As I said before, "can be tuned" is a far cry from "is". The gameplay of FFXII is tuning your characters and gambits to fit the situation. And, yes, it is similar to FFXIII in that both attempt to kick things up to a kind of meta level, but they do so in different ways. One asks you to choose the correct roles for the given situation and let the CPU work out the details, and the other asks you to invent your own roles and anticipate situations that might arise. They are both interesting gameplay options to be sure. The stories, however... Artix74 posted:How could you possibly automate paradigm shifting? And furthermore, what would be the point? You'd almost need to set up a Gambit-like system, at which point you might as well be playing FF12 instead. Quite simply, you could make "auto-battle" happen on a loop. And why not? 95% of the gameplay in FFXIII is choosing the right roles at the right time. Playing manually by inputting commands is useful in certain circumstances, but not in the vast majority of situations. PhilippAchtel fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Jun 14, 2012 |
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Jun 14, 2012 02:07
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PhilippAchtel posted:Oh my god, what have I done... But it's not that far off. If you're not automating most of FFXII, you're playing the game wrong, simply put. The game encourages automation, to the point that most of your experience is out of your hands. As far as the stories go, they're both pretty poo poo-tacular but for different reasons.
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Jun 14, 2012 03:45
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PhilippAchtel posted:Quite simply, you could make "auto-battle" happen on a loop. And why not? 95% of the gameplay in FFXIII is choosing the right roles at the right time. Playing manually by inputting commands is useful in certain circumstances, but not in the vast majority of situations. Auto-battle has nothing to do with paradigm shifting, though? Autobattle is the game picking from a the list of available commands; Paradigm shifting is you telling the game which list it's allowed to pick from. You could (arguably should) automate the former. You can't possibly automate the latter without going into crazy gambit setups.
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Jun 14, 2012 04:05
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Artix74 posted:Auto-battle has nothing to do with paradigm shifting, though? Autobattle is the game picking from a the list of available commands; Paradigm shifting is you telling the game which list it's allowed to pick from. You could (arguably should) automate the former. You can't possibly automate the latter without going into crazy gambit setups. And if you did automate paradigm shifting, what would be left for the player to do? The most I ever really needed to do manually was shift paradigms, heal and buff a bit more intelligently than the AI usually did, and occasionally take advantage of good AOE opportunities. The vast majority of the game's strategy and tension, I thought, came from intelligently combining and switching between the various paradigms to suit the changing needs of battle. 90% of the time, the AI just did what I would have done with those roles anyway - and it did it quickly enough to handle all three party members effectively and in a way that helps the player appreciate the simple aesthetic appeal of the battles themselves.
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Jun 14, 2012 04:10
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I'm currently replaying vanilla 12 right now and I just realized that the Star Wars references keep going full circle with the bounty hunters falling into a pit in the desert. God drat this game.
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Jun 14, 2012 04:38
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Barudak posted:After Years is terrible in plot and mechanics and it feels horribly, horribly slapped together. Assuming its cannon it also makes it so that everyone in FFVI died to the final boss of After Years and the final boss is terrible. It's fan service/fic in game form because they knew people would buy it. I was going to buy it but my Wii has an error that won't let it use the store (and gently caress nintendo's $80 repair offer) so I watched a let's play on youtube. Not sure which was worse, the game, or the person playing it who was about as  and bad at games as a gaming journalist. It made me glad I didn't waste money on it though.DOUBLE CLICK HERE posted:XIII's bad, but it's even more simple because the first 20 hours are pressing X through trivial battles where you still don't have a full party or unlocked systems yet. I feel like XIII doesn't get enough due for being the absolute best PS3 screen saver of 2010. Let's be honest, FFXIII is just the (il)logical next step in gaming's abuse of quick time events. voltron lion force posted:I think most people in this thread will agree that while 13 and 8 have their issues they are both better than 2. I loved FF2 NES for the sole reason that it was insanely buggy but still got released in that state. Being able to level up spells and combat skills in a single fight was funny and made for interesting atempts at breaking your way through the game. Ultima's damage was bugged which sucked, although I never did see if you could get to Mysidia earlier than the story intended. Getting stuff like Flare/Holy early on would probably be a fun new way of breaking everything. Someone had put it and NESticle on a couple of the 486's in my highschool's computer lab so I ended up playing through most of it over the course of a few months, 15 minutes of homeroom at a time. That said, aside from the fun of breaking poo poo, it was a horrible game but they do get points for trying a levelless system which they eventually got right for FFL2, which was a wonderful game that let you kill gods from various pantheons. Plus martial arts in that game were hilariously broken because they got stronger as the uses ran out. I think I had Mask 2-shot Asura with Punch because it had 2 uses left when I gave it to him so he did something like 500+ damage on each hit. The only thing more ridiculous than Martial Arts was the Seven Sword. If you actually had someone with high agility and strength so that you'd hit all 7 times it was just thousands and thousands of damage. I only managed to make it drop once though, and my only non-monster was a Human M with 8 agility so they couldn't hit poo poo with it. 
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Jun 14, 2012 05:48
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voltron lion force posted:Magic isn't all that good in the vanilla version. Focus on getting the buff and healing spells but don't bother with attack magics or most debuffs. Better to just attack things. Just want to say that this isn't really true. Unless you get the Nihopaloa ASAP, you WILL want debuff magic. Debuffs make a HUGE difference in XII. Also, while it's usually not wise to focus your entire party on offensive magic, having a dedicated offensive mage is a pretty good idea. With elemental boosting rods and hitting weaknesses, you'll be doing 9999 damage to a group of enemies while your heavy physical attackers are still doing 2000 per attack to one enemy. Also, AOE spells bounced off a team of reflected characters will DESTROY almost every boss. As an added bonus, later in the game you can clog up the spell queue with your own flashy spells, which can often result in bosses standing around doing nothing while your physical characters pound on them. However, the vanilla version gives you elemental gambits so late that you'll probably want to control the spellcaster yourself.
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Jun 14, 2012 06:07
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The White Dragon posted:I think it worked in Tactics because Tactics wasn't actually about killing god or dealing with the Lion War or whatever, but in fact about punching a Goblin so hard that its Power and Speed were reduced to 1 so you could sit uninterrupted in the corner for five hours having Ramza shout at his party. My inability to draw is one of my biggest life regrets, because otherwise I'd so draw a picture of a goblin standing off in a corner all lonely while five generics flex and Ramza yells at them.
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Jun 14, 2012 06:55
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The White Dragon posted:See and now you're just purposefully misconstruing my meaning. Matsuno doesn't write stories or characters, but para-historical events. This has lots of potential for the blockbuster hit of the summer, because there's tons of stuff throughout history with folks killin' the poo poo out of each other in giant battles and buildings exploding and collapsing and weird artifacts from forgotten cultures etc., but that's all very superficial. From a storytelling perspective? For developing individuals for a reader (or a player, in this case) to relate to? Really lacking. And yet other than FFT his games have pretty much all been cult hits rather than the "blockbuster hit of the summer". Language is important to storytelling too, and Alexander Smith's translations of Matsuno's stuff are just good. You can get up in arms and cry about "unwieldy language" or (god forbid) bitch about how "them characters don't talk how real people talk", but you'd be totally wrong in those criticisms and probably also forgetting stuff like Ashley Riot's action movie "Reinforcements? I am the reinforcements" shtick. Alternately I could have just posted "but Vagrant Story" or something
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Jun 14, 2012 07:06
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Has anyone had problems getting FF9 working on a playstation 2? I put Disc 3 in, and nothing loads. I tried a friends disc as well, and it didn't work either. Both of the discs are immaculately clean, they just dont read.
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Jun 14, 2012 07:14
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der juicen posted:I'm an hour in, I guess I haven't started the Paradigm shifting yet. The beginning is really slow. Just treat it like a movie. Enjoy the scenery (because it's really good scenery) and take in the character-on-character interactions. If it helps, you can avoid almost all the non-boss fights in the beginning and not have anything to worry about. It makes the first part go a lot faster. Also, make sure you "get" the paradigm system, because the boss fights really test your ability to exploit them.
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Jun 14, 2012 07:45
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Your Gay Uncle posted:Has anyone had problems getting FF9 working on a playstation 2? I put Disc 3 in, and nothing loads. I tried a friends disc as well, and it didn't work either. Both of the discs are immaculately clean, they just dont read. I played through FFIX on my PS2 about 2 years ago, so it's certainly not a universal problem.
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Jun 14, 2012 07:46
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Spiritus Nox posted:And if you did automate paradigm shifting, what would be left for the player to do? I'm not in favor of automating paradigm shifting, but... The classes that most need human input are SAB/MED/SYN. The CPU is simply terrible at managing these. You'll get useless buffs when fighting, weird debuffs that don't make any sense (and CPU-SYN refuses to stack debuffs! gently caress you!), and CPU-MED always heals the lead character last why would they do that in a game the ends when the lead character, and only the lead character, dies?? gently caress! If you're spending your time controlling a COM/RAV lead character, you're doing it wrong.
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Jun 14, 2012 07:51
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Your Gay Uncle posted:Has anyone had problems getting FF9 working on a playstation 2? I put Disc 3 in, and nothing loads. I tried a friends disc as well, and it didn't work either. Both of the discs are immaculately clean, they just dont read. You probably just have a lovely/burned-out lens in your PS2, they tend not to like "black disc" games like PS1 discs and Growlanser Generations and it's never a sure shot which discs they'll like and which discs they won't. You've got a computer and you've got the discs, though, and even if it's a laptop with a first-gen Core Duo CPU, it'll run FF9 at full speed all the time in ePSXe. Give that a shot even if you gotta restart. Zombies' Downfall posted:Alternately I could have just posted "but Vagrant Story" or something Incidentally Vagrant Story did have a really good localization, but as has been brought up before, SE specifically tells localizers these days to ham it up excessively to have extra appeal for some precocious demographic, and that isn't fun. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Jun 14, 2012 |
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Jun 14, 2012 08:02
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The White Dragon posted:Incidentally Vagrant Story did have a really good localization, but as has been brought up before, SE specifically tells localizers these days to ham it up excessively to have extra appeal for some precocious demographic, and that isn't fun. Where're you getting that from? Just curious. They seem to have a method to their localization madness. In XII, for example, Vaan and Penelo don't talk in the "flowery language" so many people despise- but Ashe and Balthier often do. They clearly use the eloquence of speech to differentiate between characters who were well-born and educated against those without any formal education. But even the most eloquent of speakers in the game don't speak in anything approaching "Shakespearese" as some people claim, and it's all very straightforward and clear. Their sentence structure is just a bit more complex.
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Jun 14, 2012 08:13
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I recently restarted FFXII after stating that I'd never finished it, and I have to admit, the gap between Balthier and Vaan is pretty great. Balthier is so  and Vaan is just going around telling people he steals things.My major complaint so far is you don't unlock all the gambits, Fran seems to be a useless character, and you HAVE to run around to recover MP. Unless I get the gambit action "Run twenty laps around the enemy," then I'm entirely uninterested. Granted, I'm not using gambits, but to change the party leader just to recover some mp is silly but FEELS necessary right now for the white magic. The license board feels SILLY. All the characters are the same blank slate, which looks good on paper, but not if you can't see what the progression between the licenses is. It's maddening. You have to get daggers before you can get guns, but you can't KNOW that. Granted other characters start with it so you CAN see, but if anything that annoys me even more. I feel cheated into buying all the slots so I can see what comes next and if I want it or not. With the job system it isn't as bad, seeing as you have a specialization to cater to, but if I want to make a katana wielding character, I have to go through bows or axes/hammers. Not swords, short swords, or greatswords. If I want to specialize in Time Magic, I have to go through some Arcane Magic, or some Black Magic. I can see how two years ago this made me mad and I quit. I'm having fun now, though.
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Jun 14, 2012 08:44
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Schwartzcough posted:Where're you getting that from? Just curious. Admittedly it's second-hand, maybe third-, but some folks came around some of my LPs saying that they either worked on or were bros with someone who worked on the WotL localization staff and that they were specifically told to do this.
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Jun 14, 2012 08:54
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Okay, I guess I'm more or less ready to get assigned 3 Berserkers in the Fiesta now. This is going to be awful.
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Jun 14, 2012 09:30
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Proto_Fan posted:My major complaint so far is you don't unlock all the gambits, Fran seems to be a useless character, and you HAVE to run around to recover MP. Unless I get the gambit action "Run twenty laps around the enemy," then I'm entirely uninterested. Granted, I'm not using gambits, but to change the party leader just to recover some mp is silly but FEELS necessary right now for the white magic. Go for the passive licences first, a few of them are MP for combat things (getting hit/attacking) on top of you get a huge early chuck of HP out of them. And use gambits, most of the game is pre-planning via gambits and you shouldn't really have to hit buttons unless things start to get out of hand.
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Jun 14, 2012 09:48
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Luceid posted:Okay, I guess I'm more or less ready to get assigned 3 Berserkers in the Fiesta now. This is going to be awful. Yeah, with the amount of money that's come in, everyone at Berserker Risk is probably looking at 2, maybe three.
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Jun 14, 2012 10:03
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I'm really, really enjoying this game 6 hours in. Maybe not having played an FF game has given me the benefit of not being jaded, etc.
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Jun 14, 2012 10:08
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FF fans are fickle fuckers, probably worse than Silent Hill fans. Are you fighting every single monster you see or are you skipping them and just running for the bosses? I'm just trying to figure out where "6 hours in" is.
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Jun 14, 2012 10:19
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der juicen posted:I'm really, really enjoying this game 6 hours in. Maybe not having played an FF game has given me the benefit of not being jaded, etc. It's not a truly uncommon thing, it's just that XIII haters are super vocal and just simply cannot understand even the simple thing of actually enjoying the game. Honestly, I'm looking forward to your progress and let me know how you enjoy the game as it progresses!
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Jun 14, 2012 10:27
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This Jacket Is Me posted:FF fans are fickle fuckers, probably worse than Silent Hill fans. Are you fighting every single monster you see or are you skipping them and just running for the bosses? I'm just trying to figure out where "6 hours in" is. I've fought pretty much every monster. I'm in the Cocoon Deadlands, up to where I can start upgrading my gear.
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Jun 14, 2012 10:44
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Azure_Horizon posted:It's not a truly uncommon thing, it's just that XIII haters are super vocal and just simply cannot understand even the simple thing of actually enjoying the game. I think 13 is silly, but then I remember I like 12 a whole lot and I really don't have room to talk. 
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Jun 14, 2012 10:49
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Azure_Horizon posted:It's not a truly uncommon thing, it's just that XIII haters are super vocal and just simply cannot understand even the simple thing of actually enjoying the game. Honestly, I'm looking forward to your progress and let me know how you enjoy the game as it progresses! There's nothing wrong with enjoying the game, but there's also recognising where something fails or is lacking for the player playing it. Yeah, it still boils down to opinion, but as long as the person can explain why it's flawed for them or why they enjoy it, that's all that matters.
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Jun 14, 2012 10:49
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der juicen posted:I've fought pretty much every monster. I'm in the Cocoon Deadlands, up to where I can start upgrading my gear. That's about when I started to really enjoy the game. It was such a refreshing experience for me and it was so loving pretty and aurally majestic that I couldn't put it down from the moment I started to when I got to the grindy post-game.
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Jun 14, 2012 11:03
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What's with all the engines Square has been creating? It seems like there is a new engine with every other release? I'm just wondering what their reasoning is for creating a new in-house engine all the time? Do they even license it to third parties?
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Jun 14, 2012 15:06
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der juicen posted:I'm really, really enjoying this game 6 hours in. Maybe not having played an FF game has given me the benefit of not being jaded, etc. Good, and that's just it: expectations from playing other FFs/RPGs were why I couldn't get into it (FFXIII isn't a role playing game!) I secretly hope to play this game and enjoy it someday. 
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Jun 14, 2012 15:12
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The White Dragon posted:Admittedly it's second-hand, maybe third-, but some folks came around some of my LPs saying that they either worked on or were bros with someone who worked on the WotL localization staff and that they were specifically told to do this. Being told to keep a consistent localization style across games set in the same basic universe is a lot different from Square-Enix telling translators to 'ham it up' to keep their 'appeal.' ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Jun 14, 2012 |
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Jun 14, 2012 15:31
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Pesky Splinter posted:There's nothing wrong with enjoying the game, but there's also recognising where something fails or is lacking for the player playing it. That's fine too, but a lot of time I see people going "WHAT THE gently caress IS WRONG WITH YOU, FF13 IS SPAWNED FROM SATAN HIMSELF AND LIKING IT MEANS YOU ARE A TERRIBLE PERSON WHO HATES ALL GOOD VIDEOGAMES AND HERE'S WHY:" There's no problem with saying why you do/don't like a game, but at least be civil about it. Regardless of your personal opinion, FF13 is not the worst game ever made, it did not ruin Final Fantasy forever, or any other bullshit hyperbole you want to throw around.
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Jun 14, 2012 16:08
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Artix74 posted:That's fine too, but a lot of time I see people going "WHAT THE gently caress IS WRONG WITH YOU, FF13 IS SPAWNED FROM SATAN HIMSELF AND LIKING IT MEANS YOU ARE A TERRIBLE PERSON WHO HATES ALL GOOD VIDEOGAMES AND HERE'S WHY:" There's no problem with saying why you do/don't like a game, but at least be civil about it. Regardless of your personal opinion, FF13 is not the worst game ever made, it did not ruin Final Fantasy forever, or any other bullshit hyperbole you want to throw around. This. This so much. I don't like FF13, but you are allowed to like it. People who are like "YOU LIKE FINAL FANTASY (insert number here)?! YOU ARE THE WORST PERSON! gently caress YOU, RETARD!" are really the worst people. Why is it so hard to understand that different people have different tastes? Things these are utterly subjective. What is it about videogames, especially Final Fantasy that brings out the worst in people? I think only the Sonic fanbase is worse.
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Jun 14, 2012 17:04
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Its especially funny when you think about how stupid we sound arguing about the relative worth of one lovely JRPG storyline vs another. "Psh FF13 was garbage. Now FF7, that there is a masterpiece."
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Jun 14, 2012 17:16
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