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Long-term damage, essentially hastening the day when the CPU switches from "works" to "does not work." Excessive heat adds to that. As long as you keep within reasonable heat and voltage limits, though the chip will outlast its useful life without issue.. Ivy Bridge undervolts very well, and you may have a particularly speedy chip. But at 4.2 GHz and -0.050V Offset, you're probably right at the limit for stability right now. Josh Lyman posted:My first thing to do was remove the TIM and use Arctic Silver 5... You put electrically conductive TIM on an exposed CPU core?
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Jun 18, 2012 00:03
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Factory Factory posted:You put electrically conductive TIM on an exposed CPU core? 
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Jun 18, 2012 00:11
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Factory Factory posted:Long-term damage, essentially hastening the day when the CPU switches from "works" to "does not work." Excessive heat adds to that. As long as you keep within reasonable heat and voltage limits, though the chip will outlast its useful life without issue.. I really don't need this thing to be running at 4.2GHz but if it's stable then I figure I might as well. I'm going to get some better case fans and put the H60 in push/pull before I fiddly with it any more.
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Jun 18, 2012 00:36
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Josh Lyman posted:I removed the TIM on my stock Intel HSF and used Arctic Silver 5. when you say you "removed the TIM", people assume you mean this:  Edit: while we're on the subject, I've been considering deliding my proc and replacing the thermal paste with the Noctua NT-H1 that came with my heat sink. It *says* non conductive on the package, but I wanted to know if anyone has tried using it before. Also, what's the best way to apply it? Should I put a dot on? A line? spread it out evenly with a credit card? Should I use hi temp silicone (This stuff: http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_Permatex_High-Temp_Red_RTV_Silicone_Gasket.htm ) to reattach the top, or leave it loose? KillHour fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Jun 18, 2012 |
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Jun 18, 2012 02:55
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You can use electrically conductive thermal paste on exposed CPU dies without issue, we did it for years before they started putting the IHS on. You just need to make sure it doesn't touch any of the gold bits, and you'd have to be using vastly too much for that to happen. That said, in general terms it's smarter to just use non-conductive paste since there's no risk at all no matter how badly you mess up.
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Jun 18, 2012 03:00
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Alereon posted:You can use electrically conductive thermal paste on exposed CPU dies without issue, we did it for years before they started putting the IHS on. You just need to make sure it doesn't touch any of the gold bits, and you'd have to be using vastly too much for that to happen. That said, in general terms it's smarter to just use non-conductive paste since there's no risk at all no matter how badly you mess up.
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Jun 18, 2012 03:04
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Josh Lyman posted:Although I didn't remove my heatspreader, I was confused about the concern. The last time I owned a desktop was 2004 and that machine had an Athlon XP Thunderbird whose exposed core was notorious was being damaged by fat fingered system builders. 
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Jun 18, 2012 03:06
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Man, I remember being nervous as heck when I installed a big copper heatsink on my 2800+ because of all the horror stories of crunching a corner due to improper installation. One false move and crunch, you've got a newly angular chip that won't function unless there's something basically miraculous going on. And 92mm fans, haha, anyone else remember when the AC Freezer Pro 7 was HOT poo poo with its "quiet" 92mm fan? Thing would crank up but, hey, still not nearly as noisy as stock heatsinks of the era when it was relevant. Looks like they still have some currently-made coolers aimed at small cases, weird to see sub-120mm fans being sold on aftermarket heat sinks these days! And while poking around, looks like they're trying to compete in the 120mm big-boy heatsink arena, too, albeit with a peculiar angle - still compact (130mm-ish instead of the ubiquitous 160-162mm designs others use), and using push-pin installaton ... Weird. AC Freezer XTREME Rev. 2. Pre-applied MX-2, looks like rather a bit much of it at that but it's a good compound and should perform well without too much installation hassle. I wonder if that 30mm of additional clearance makes a substantial difference in what cases can and can't accept it? Interesting choice for lower profile cooling without sacrificing the 120mm fan. Edit: Oh, man, this is awesome. The earliest heat-pipe CPU coolers! Referred to in that prior article as "the geekiest" heat sinks around, haha. Well, I guess it didn't take much to cool an AMD XP+/64. Agreed fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Jun 18, 2012 |
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Jun 18, 2012 03:23
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Actually, since the chip isn't soldered to the spreader, what's stopping someone from soldering the spreader directly to the heatsink? Obviously, this would make the heatsink useless for anything else, but it might shave off a few degrees if you really want to go [H] with it.
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Jun 18, 2012 03:30
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Alereon posted:Tbirdchat: I bought one of those copper shims that was the exact height of the CPU core to prevent that from happening. Because I put a Thermalright SLK-900A on top Thermaltake Orb, or maybe I had a Superorb, or maybe I had both. Such a bandwagoner.  Agilent Arcticooler. So quiet, so well designed. This is what happens when proper engineering goes into a heatsink.  Thermosonic Thermoengine, another amazing piece of engineering. I never did find out what was the "secret sauce" in the core.  And then, finally, we have the famous Alpha PAL8045.  edit: Holy crap, this might be that original Coolermaster  http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Socket-Heat-Sink/dp/B000NSI4KC Josh Lyman fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jun 18, 2012 |
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Jun 18, 2012 03:45
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KillHour posted:Actually, since the chip isn't soldered to the spreader, what's stopping someone from soldering the spreader directly to the heatsink? Obviously, this would make the heatsink useless for anything else, but it might shave off a few degrees if you really want to go [H] with it. Thinking through, how would you even do this in a way that would improve rather than damage cooling ability (let alone the processor)? You'd have to solder it only to the part of the heatspreader that contacts the core or else I'd bet there would be no benefit at all, and then you've added several uneven millimeters to the heat sink and IHS setup which is going to bite hard when you go to tighten it down. If you apply paste as normal then just solder the outside, not sure you'd have any reason to expect benefits, but I am sure it'd be a good way to ruin a perfectly good processor and heat sink all at the same time. You'd have to do it with the processor already installed to the motherboard, too, unless part of the plan is to remove the IHS-heatsink soldered together setup to install the naked processor (possibly replacing the potentially mediocre application of goopy TIM with a more carefully applied layer of quality TIM), but then you run into the problem of crushing the processor when you go to tighten the heatsink... That's gotta be too [H] for [H], even. Josh Lyman posted:Oh man, I remember that heatsink. That was before Zalman became the "giant loving copper heatsink" brand. I think the heatsink in my first build in 2000 was a standard square aluminum Coolermaster with a 60mm fan. I don't think Athlons came with heatsinks, possibly because they were all OEM pieces and retail boxes didn't exist like they do now with Intel CPUs. I definitely remember my Barton-core AMD Athlon XP 2800+ arriving with a heat sink. That was in early 2003. Yeah, I really missed the boat - bought a 32-bit, generation-old processor on the cusp of the awesome Athlon 64 launch, installed it into an AGP 8X motherboard just in time for that standard to come to an end... Cut me off from upgrade options in a hilariously deserved way, the last good video card I could put in it was a 6800 GT, which was replaced by a 7600 GT when it failed years later due to an early fan failure, gently caress Leadtek Winfast  By that time that was the fastest AGP card and pretty much my only option, hah.
Agreed fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Jun 18, 2012 |
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Jun 18, 2012 03:48
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I had two Alpha PAL8045's mounted on two Celeron 366 running at 550mhz on my Abit BP6 
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Jun 18, 2012 04:37
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Animal posted:I had two Alpha PAL8045's mounted on two Celeron 366 running at 550mhz on my Abit BP6 How did you fit two PAL8045's? 
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Jun 18, 2012 05:07
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I've got a Asus P55T2P4 with both extra caches and Pentium MMX 233 running at 83*3.5 that I used to use for a router. That thing is like the fuckin alpha of real overclocking.
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Jun 18, 2012 05:50
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On a related note to those coolers... I was recently clearing out some boxes of old computer stuff which had built up over the last fifteen years. Some of the junk was quite entertaining, including Windows 98 on floppy disk  , a SP2 disk for XP which we had to send off for because downloading something that big was beyond reasonable, and best of all, an old AMD K6-2 266MHz which I believe was the first CPU we ever bought outside of a prebuilt machine.I popped the IHS off the K6-2. It was glued in the four corner but I jammed a screwdriver in there and eventually it came loose. No solder on the chip, just TIM. In the same box as that K6-2 was one of those old square Coolermaster CPU coolers like the one on the Amazon link above. I didn't get a photo of it though  .Photos here: https://picasaweb.google.com/118332637350752086993/OldComputerStuff?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCPflz5OLorvwdQ&feat=directlink
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Jun 18, 2012 12:31
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Agreed posted:Thinking through, how would you even do this in a way that would improve rather than damage cooling ability (let alone the processor)? You'd have to solder it only to the part of the heatspreader that contacts the core or else I'd bet there would be no benefit at all, and then you've added several uneven millimeters to the heat sink and IHS setup which is going to bite hard when you go to tighten it down. If you apply paste as normal then just solder the outside, not sure you'd have any reason to expect benefits, but I am sure it'd be a good way to ruin a perfectly good processor and heat sink all at the same time. You'd have to do it with the processor already installed to the motherboard, too, unless part of the plan is to remove the IHS-heatsink soldered together setup to install the naked processor (possibly replacing the potentially mediocre application of goopy TIM with a more carefully applied layer of quality TIM), but then you run into the problem of crushing the processor when you go to tighten the heatsink... You'd have to remove the heat spreader from the processor (replacing the paste in the process) and then sand a little off the bottom of the heatsink to make up for the difference in solder depth. You'd then probably want to reflow solder the heatsink and heat spreader together to make sure it's level. I didn't say it would be easy, but it's got to be easier than actually soldering the core to the heat spreader.
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Jun 18, 2012 15:29
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KillHour posted:You'd have to remove the heat spreader from the processor (replacing the paste in the process) and then sand a little off the bottom of the heatsink to make up for the difference in solder depth. You'd then probably want to reflow solder the heatsink and heat spreader together to make sure it's level. I didn't say it would be easy, but it's got to be easier than actually soldering the core to the heat spreader. Hm, but if you reflow solder the heatsink, there goes the pretty (and pretty important!) solder joints between the heat pipes and the fins on any modern high-end cooler that could take advantage of this, unless you knew for damned sure that you were using solder with a lower melting point than the solder used elsewhere and you could very carefully control the heating environment. And it wouldn't ruin the heatpipes. And... This is a pretty hilarious thought experiment, I wonder what kind of temps you'd end up with at the end of the Rube Goldberg-esque process 
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Jun 18, 2012 15:39
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Lowclock posted:Seems reasonable enough so far. I want to know how people are getting temps like this I hit 65 at stock settings on my 3750K with a 212 Evo, and I don't seem to be the only one.
chippy fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jun 18, 2012 |
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Jun 18, 2012 16:30
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chippy posted:I want to know how people are getting temps like this
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Jun 18, 2012 21:02
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chippy posted:I want to know how people are getting temps like this
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Jun 19, 2012 07:18
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Factory Factory posted:Ivy Bridge undervolts very well, and you may have a particularly speedy chip. But at 4.2 GHz and -0.050V Offset, you're probably right at the limit for stability right now. I guess this most likely means it's not getting enough voltage at that specific load but for now I just dropped the clock to 4.1GHz and it's working fine, I don't really want to start manually setting voltage scaling values or whatever else I could maybe do to fix that. I'm planning to replace the single pull fan on my H60 with a push/pull setup. Is there anything specific I should consider when buying fans for a radiator? Other sites seem to recommend high static pressure for this purpose. The biggest problem is my choice is fairly limited in the UK but I'm looking at 2x Noctua NF-F12 PWM, I think that'll work well?
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Jun 19, 2012 09:44
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Lowclock posted:That is running small FFTs on Prime 95 (the hottest) with a lapped TRUE 120 XP or whatever (the 6 heatpipe one), 2 120mm fans on it, and AS5 under the IHS and heatsink. The room is like 78f. Hmmm, I guess it's the lapping and more importantly the AS5 under the IHS. I'm not sure I want to go to those lengths.
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Jun 19, 2012 10:05
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Popping the IHS off an Ivy Bridge is a lot easier than the videos make it look. Just take a regular single-edge razor blade and rock it back and forth under a corner. Keep the body of the razor parallel with the pcb so you pretty much can't gently caress it up, and things get a lot easier once the razor starts actually going in. I did a really thin line of AS5 across the core and plopped the IHS on it and wiggled, and secured it with just the socket. I mostly lapped the heatsink because the face is really lovely right out of the box. I just threw a sheet of 1000 on a piece of old marble tile and rubbed it back and forth for a few minutes under the hose, then with 2000, then used some metal polish, then cleaned it up nice. You don't really have to go crazy. Aluminum and copper are pretty soft. The "Pressure vault bracket system" I had to buy to adapt the TRUE to 1155 puts a shitload of pressure on there too. It all just sounds a lot scarier than it really is. Lowclock fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Jun 19, 2012 |
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Jun 19, 2012 11:05
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The IHS part sounds simple enough. The lapping sounds like a total pain in the rear end/chore/unnecessary in 2012, I haven't had issues with even inexpensive heat sinks and contact surface, personally, in a long time. That was a problem with older Thermalright units, iirc, early in the 2000s. The XP-120 was released in 2004, and is a very early high-performance model, but is horizontal in mounting shape and often (despite great workmanship otherwise) had an iffy contact surface. You sure you're thinking of the right heat sink? The XP-120 was famous for
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Jun 19, 2012 14:05
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I may consider the IHS thing at some point, currently I've only had it a few weeks and I don't really feel like voiding the warranty on it.
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Jun 19, 2012 14:31
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Alereon posted:Tbirdchat: I bought one of those copper shims that was the exact height of the CPU core to prevent that from happening. Because I put a Thermalright SLK-900A on top 
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Jun 19, 2012 15:46
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Agreed posted:You sure you're thinking of the right heat sink? The XP-120 was famous for
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Jun 19, 2012 16:24
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That's the one, grumper. TR Ultra-120 Extreme. There's like a billion different revisions that all look the same with slightly different names. To make things even more confusing, I also do have an XP120 on a computer in my garage. Yeah it was probably not necessary to lap it, but 10 minutes with some sandpaper isn't a big deal.
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Jun 19, 2012 22:05
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Josh Lyman posted:I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but there's a mistake in the OP. It advocated for having positive case pressure, which is correct, but then says you achieve this by having more exhaust fans than intake fans.  Idle temps were about 28*C with a system temp of 28*C. Temps under Prime95 maxed out at 55*C, and this is without giving AS5 time to burn in.  I had just a little bit of AS5 left, enough for a CPU application, so I used that instead of the bundled Cooler Master paste. I assume the AS5 is as good, if not better. I just hope I didn't tighten the mounts so tight that they'll stress and damage the motherboard. 
Josh Lyman fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jun 21, 2012 |
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Jun 20, 2012 23:59
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Josh Lyman posted:Hyper 212 Plus came in today, just installed it. I never knew how useful a cutout in the motherboard tray behind the CPU socket could be. Well, that's got me convinced that I need to reseat my heatsink. My Hyper212+ idles at 39ish.
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Jun 21, 2012 00:42
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It's really the load temperature you have to worry about. Plus, if you run a ton of background tasks or keep lots of tabs open, "idle" might not be as idle as you think.
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Jun 21, 2012 00:49
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Josh Lyman posted:Hyper 212 Plus came in today, just installed it. I never knew how useful a cutout in the motherboard tray behind the CPU socket could be. What CPU is this on, 3750K?
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Jun 21, 2012 10:07
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chippy posted:What CPU is this on, 3750K?
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Jun 21, 2012 10:24
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I just ordered a new computer with an i5-3570K, a Radeon HD7950, and a MSI Z77A-G43 motherboard. After reading a little bit about the motherboard, I've gotten the impression that it's not good for overclocking. Can anyone confirm/deny this, and perhaps suggest some better alternatives?
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Jun 21, 2012 11:02
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Josh Lyman posted:3570K, but yeah. Nice, and that's the core temps rather than the package temp? Definitely thinking of remounting my cooler.
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Jun 21, 2012 11:21
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Pleasure to chill posted:I just ordered a new computer with an i5-3570K, a Radeon HD7950, and a MSI Z77A-G43 motherboard. After reading a little bit about the motherboard, I've gotten the impression that it's not good for overclocking. Can anyone confirm/deny this, and perhaps suggest some better alternatives? It's not the best, yeah. Any MSI model with a -GD suffix (not just -G) or an Asus P8Z77-V would push a processor basically as far as it will go without being limited by the board's VRM.
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Jun 21, 2012 13:10
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Thanks! I've cancelled the order for the Z77A-G43 and ordered a MSI Z77A-GD55 instead.
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Jun 21, 2012 13:45
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Hoping for some advice... I have this machine: i5 3570K Corsair H60 Asus P8Z77-V 2x 4GB Corsair Vengeance 1600Mhz Asus GTX 670 TOP Crucial m4 256GB / WD 640GB Black / WD 500GB Blue Corsair HX850 CM 690 (the original version) I managed to overcock to 4.0GHz but I had to reduce the voltage 0.05v to keep the temps below 72C. Currently my cores sit around 68-72C under IBT. At idle I get 30-34C. My CPU fan (the stock fan on the H60) is set to run at 100% above 60C. I'm not looking to do anything ridiculous in terms of OC but from Googling a bit it seems like I should be able to get to 4.2GHz at stock voltage without any trouble. I found forum posts with people claiming they get temps of 50deg under IBT at that speed, which may be an exageration but it's still nothing like I am seeing. At stock clock and voltage I get basically the same temperatures as above too. Possible solutions I have considered:
Money is not really a concern, if I need to replace parts then I'm fine with that, but obviously I don't want to spend cash for zero end result and it's hard to know where to start. Tunga fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jun 21, 2012 |
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Jun 21, 2012 14:52
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Tunga posted:I managed to overcock to 4.0GHz but I had to reduce the voltage 0.05v to keep the temps below 72C. Currently my cores sit around 68-72C under IBT. At idle I get 30-34C. My CPU fan (the stock fan on the H60) is set to run at 100% above 60C. The H60 isn't the best cooler in the world, but it should do better than that... What's the Vcore, not just the offset? I'm wondering if you might have messed up the thermal paste application a bit. quote:Possible solutions I have considered: Your total airflow shouldn't be a huge problem, but you might want to consider moving the radiator to the top of the case and using a bare 120mm fan to exhaust out the back. That video card isn't a blower design, so its hot air is dumping back into the case in significant amounts. That hot air is getting exhausted through the radiator, and that's not helping your temperatures. On the top-mounted radiator, you can either do two 25mm thick 120mm fans in push-pull, or you could go whole hog and stick a high static pressure fan on it, like a San Ace SD1011 (stick it on a rheostat or your ears will kill you). Or two such fans  A side panel 120mm intake fan might be helpful, or one on the bottom of the case (use a dust filter). But I'd move the radiator and do the back fan first.
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Jun 21, 2012 18:31
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Factory Factory posted:The H60 isn't the best cooler in the world, but it should do better than that... What's the Vcore, not just the offset? I'm wondering if you might have messed up the thermal paste application a bit. Factory Factory posted:[...fan stuff...] Bottom intake would be doable and my PC is not on the floor and shouldn't pick up any more dust from there than it would from the front. The bottom intake has a stock filter on it anyway I believe. I might end up replacing the case anyway, it seems like cable management has come a long way since this thing was made, and something a bit quieter would be good too, this tends to vibrate/resonate a fair bit. Thanks, as always. Edit: So at the moment I actually have the H60 in a pull-only setup, because I cannot mount the radiator on the case, the PCI slot sticks out so I have to have a fan between the case and the radiator. So that probably isn't helping either, push would be better. Tunga fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jun 21, 2012 |
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Jun 21, 2012 18:55
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