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fatherdog posted:Why? Well, as I said before, for the same reason lightning does not fork anywhere but the path of least resistance. We've yet to see some reason why nature would have need of time loops in the real world, so why would it add them? Homestuck gives a reason and then adds them - it's a means to achieve the reproduction of universes. The code to create Sburb comes from within Sburb. In this way a universe can produce another universe. Admittedly the chess monsters and the elaborate personal quests for a group of spunky teenagers are put in for storytelling reasons, but overall Sburb is apparently a product of nature. All of the time loops can be understood as necessary steps to achieving nature's purpose.
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Jun 18, 2012 04:49
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Wrist Watch posted:When you gaze long into the abyss... The void wonks back at you.
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Jun 18, 2012 04:49
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Dolash posted:Well, as I said before, for the same reason lightning does not fork anywhere but the path of least resistance. So you're theorizing that time operates the same way as electricity. Why?
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Jun 18, 2012 04:56
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Dolash posted:Well, as I said before, for the same reason lightning does not fork anywhere but the path of least resistance. We've yet to see some reason why nature would have need of time loops in the real world, so why would it add them? Who says that time loops are any more resistant than not having them? Youre making huge implications about stuff that no one understands.
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Jun 18, 2012 05:02
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Can we stop talking about the hypothetical status of time travel as compared in real life and Homestuck? We CAN'T do it in real life, so we don't know how it should or shouldn't work. And Hussie is writing Homestuck, so time travel works as the plot dictates. It's this mechanical analysis of fictional universes. that makes the  emote necessary
Triskelli fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Jun 18, 2012 |
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Jun 18, 2012 05:05
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Dolash posted:Well, as I said before, for the same reason lightning does not fork anywhere but the path of least resistance. We've yet to see some reason why nature would have need of time loops in the real world, so why would it add them? Also, what makes you think that "nature's purpose" in "real life" doesn't include time loops? Dolash posted:Why can't we discuss it, or use it as a jumping-off point for discussion? Because in Homestuck how time travel might work in real life is completely irrelevant because the only thing that actually matters is how time travel works in Homestuck, so saying "Here is how I think time travel works in real life, so therefore X and Y about Homestuck" is really stupid. Entirely aside from the fact that baldly asserting "This is how time travel works in real life" is really stupid to begin with.
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Jun 18, 2012 05:05
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fatherdog posted:So you're theorizing that time operates the same way as electricity. Why? It's not just electricity. Physics, chemistry and biology are all in their own way deterministic. A planet in orbit never suddenly goes against the prevailing force of gravity, and a chemical remains seemingly inert until the conditions are met for it to react - then the reaction is certain, barring intervention. Circular causation appears to be something only nature could do, barring the cosmic power to create cause and effect from nothing. There's no outside influence on causation that we know of, heck the only outside influence on time at all appears to be possible changes in subjective time. Since we don't yet have reason to believe that universes actually reproduce in anything resembling Homestuck's way (I guess we don't know, but we don't have reason to believe), it's not yet imaginable what would drive nature to include them, since they'd serve no purpose. edit Triskelli posted:Can we stop talking about the hypothetical status of time travel as compared in real life and Homestuck? We CAN'T do it in real life, so we don't know how it should or shouldn't work. And Hussie is writing Homestuck, so time travel works as the plot dictates. It's this mechanical analysis of fictional universes. that makes the You know, you're right. This is all a pretty unfortunate derail since it's not even the point of what I was trying to say, or helpful to that point. It doesn't matter how the real world works, what matters is that in Homestuck Sburb had absolute causal power over its players, and Lord English had even more causal power than Sburb, but it's turned out Lord English may have started off as a player. How do you go from a position of being subject to causality to one of dictating it? That's what I really wanted to ask. I'll drop the "timeline in nature" discussion. It's interesting and I like talking it out but I feel bad cluttering up the thread. Dolash fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Jun 18, 2012 |
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Jun 18, 2012 05:07
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I'm not sure if uu is Lord English yet. Mouse over the top here, and you can see that none of the u's have any difference in capitalization from the other letters. The other thing is the synopsis of Complacency of the Learned. Calmasis is described as "both the hero and chief antagonist," which sounds like the two we know, but Calmasis also focuses his/her efforts on defeating Zazzerpan. Who's he symbolic of? Then there's the twelve fellow disciples who get sacrificed to do so. There are 12 trolls, sure, but why only them, rather than the humans? Scouring for other groups whose numbers add up to 12, I realized that the B1 and B2 kids and the four trolls on the asteroid lab since Aradia and Sollux left add up to 12. There's another identity for Lord English that I don't think I've seen considered: The ectobiological ancestor of Calliope/uu. Also, a question came to me that might tie into all of this. Calliope has been following and enjoying happenings from the A and B universes and races, but she has only decided to contact the B2 kids. Why? Dr Christmas fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jun 18, 2012 |
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Jun 18, 2012 05:10
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Dr Christmas posted:I'm not sure if uu is Lord English yet. Mouse over the top here, and you can see that none of the u's have any difference in capitalization from the other letters. Obviously because the B2 kids were the only group that included Roxy, The Best Character.
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Jun 18, 2012 05:13
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fatherdog posted:Obviously because the B2 kids were the only group that included Roxy, The Best Character. This might actually be entirely true. The B1 timeline is fixed and can be observed in its entirety beginning to end, so why bother intervening? But the B2 session goes dark (presumably because of Roxy's void powers) and its future is uncertain.
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Jun 18, 2012 05:16
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Triskelli posted:"He who fights monsters should take care not to become one." Ok, but... Dave posted:TG: oh man i wish lil cal wouldnt look at me like that So I feel like all of this dead talk is another misdirect.
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Jun 18, 2012 05:17
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Cavatica posted:Ok, but... Here's a visual example: B1 Lil' Cal: (Bro's)  B2 Lil' Cal: (Dirk's)  B2 Cal doesn't have the high-definition eyes that his B1 counterpart has. He lacks the mystic jujus that otherwise make him the most important character. The "dead eyes" refer to completely different things and are in different contexts
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Jun 18, 2012 05:38
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Triskelli posted:Here's a visual example: That's not a good example since those are two different art assets entirely. The picture you used for B2 Cal is the same stock image that's been used for B1 Cal before. http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005451 We won't know if there's an actual difference in how their eyes are rendered until actual matching images are found for comparison.
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Jun 18, 2012 05:47
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I love how Lil Cal is this bizarre rap homie puppet, but the same elements that make him ridiculous go on to be the same things that make Lord English intimidating. The gold tooth, the rosy cheeks, etc. It was done similarly through the prototyping concept--I enjoyed the way the mishmash of objects that were prototyped manged to come together to make a threatening-looking enemy in Jack Noir, and I've always sort of felt there's something that was lost once he got streamlined after Bec was added into the mix.
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Jun 18, 2012 05:56
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Triskelli posted:Here's a visual example: I think you'll want to look at Dirk's versus Dave's again.
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Jun 18, 2012 06:18
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Gabriel Pope posted:There's also the fact that uu is explicitly an audience surrogate figure and that opens up some fascinating possibilities for Lord English. Skaia, with its "infinite creative potential", becomes a metaphor for the storytelling process as a whole--creating whole new worlds which ultimately only exist for the "consumption" of the audience, which has the entire span of the story laid neatly out in an archival format which they can jump back and forth through at their leisure. And like the old saying goes, wherever you go, there you (already) are. If this is how the story ends up then Homestuck would achieve some kind of meta-singularity.
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Jun 18, 2012 06:19
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Dolash posted:Yeah that was super clunky. I just wanted to say nature tends toward simplicity. Our attempt to mathematically describe nature tend to be simplistic because it's easier for us to understand. The things we're trying to describe are almost always WAY more complex than we largely reduce them to. See: loving string theory, matter existing in dozens of unknown dimensions for our "simple" laws to be able to interact properly, etc.
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Jun 18, 2012 06:20
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Wait, I completely glazed over this. Jack calls Cal his best friend, just as uu calls Jack HIS friend. 
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Jun 18, 2012 06:34
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Dr Christmas posted:I'm not sure if uu is Lord English yet. Mouse over the top here, and you can see that none of the u's have any difference in capitalization from the other letters. I suspect that UU and uu somehow end up being the same being. maybe their child? I'm not sure. Point is Lord English is a time/space player, made up for both master classes. which is why he is so loving dangerous. Maybe uu and UU are from the furthest Rim? Lord English was slaughtering them according to Rose, right? Maybe that's where their from and the formation of Lord English is really bad poo poo for them?
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Jun 18, 2012 06:52
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More importantly: Does anyone have the fake troll UU that Hussie asked people to spread around on Tumblr instead of the actual spoiler appearance?
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Jun 18, 2012 07:05
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Ammat The Ankh posted:More importantly: Does anyone have the fake troll UU that Hussie asked people to spread around on Tumblr instead of the actual spoiler appearance? It's on the wiki page
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Jun 18, 2012 07:12
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It's actually still on mspa.com, but just in case:
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Jun 18, 2012 07:12
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I think this just about sums up most of the fandom's (and most of this thread's) reaction to the big UU reveal. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have a "what the gently caress, goddamn" reaction. I'm starting to feel rather sorry for Calliope now, though. Unless Hussie pulls another fast one and it turns out she's a manipulative, sociopathic schemer, she's been nothing but sunshine and rainbows to all of the B2 kids so far. She's truly beautiful on the inside.  I'm still wondering what the deal is with the lime blood/red blood bit. It made more sense back when we (at least, some of us) were assuming she was a troll or troll-related creature. Now that we know she's a cherub, that blood bit doesn't make as much sense, at least not without further exposition from the Huss. Do cherubs have different blood colors? What did she mean when she said that limebloods were hunted to extinction - was she referring to limeblood trolls or limeblood cherubs? And where, physically, are uu and UU? So many questions answered in the last update, yet so many still waiting to be tied up. Oh Homestuck.
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Jun 18, 2012 07:30
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I dont feel strongly either way on the issue of whether or not uu is lord english, but another shred of evidence for your consideration and perusal:uu posted:uu: I THOuGHT YOu OF ALL PEOPLE WOuLD APPRECIATE MY MODIFICATIONS. lord english has a gold capped tooth, calliope doesn't.
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Jun 18, 2012 07:36
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Happened to be watching a PBS special this evening, am I crazy in seeing a resemblance in UU to Australopithecus afarensis more than a human skull? Mostly the prominent jaw and cheekbones, I guess.
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Jun 18, 2012 07:37
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Rooreelooo posted:I dont feel strongly either way on the issue of whether or not uu is lord english, but another shred of evidence for your consideration and perusal: Think of it in the context of what an outsider might see cosplay as being like or something, that's what I thought anyway
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Jun 18, 2012 08:36
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fatherdog posted:
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Jun 18, 2012 08:45
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Speaking of cosplay (tangentially), someone who'd never heard of Homestuck showed up to a con dressed as Rufio. He got a way bigger response than he expected (it went well, though ).
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Jun 18, 2012 08:51
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Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:It's actually still on mspa.com, but just in case: Thank ye kindly.
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Jun 18, 2012 09:04
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Well, that's pretty impressive. E: To add a little more effort to my post, I've noticed on my tumblr trawling that a great deal of tumblr artists are doing a pretty decent job of avoiding the trap of turning UU into a non-grotesque, traditionally cute character
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Jun 18, 2012 09:15
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You know: are the Felt supposed to be a variant of Cherubim? They're not that visually similar, but they are servants of English and have the same green thing going on.
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Jun 18, 2012 10:33
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Glory of Arioch posted:Yeah, I was half-expecting Jake's land to have angels in it. It's pretty obvious that of the acronyms, Jake's land is gonna be LOMAX. Hrm, is there a synonym for angel that begins with 'M'? 'X' is probably Xenon in keeping with the Noble gas theme. You mean like Bernie Lomax?
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Jun 18, 2012 10:36
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Has anybody posted this yet?
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Jun 18, 2012 11:10
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Zorak posted:You know: are the Felt supposed to be a variant of Cherubim? They're not that visually similar, but they are servants of English and have the same green thing going on. I think the Felt are based on the carapace people, either modified from them or created from them with ecto-biology shenannigans by Lord English.
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Jun 18, 2012 11:12
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Zorak posted:You know: are the Felt supposed to be a variant of Cherubim? They're not that visually similar, but they are servants of English and have the same green thing going on. They looked to me like carapaces, or they could be one of the various alien species that the trolls subjugated, or something yet to be explained. They're very unlikely to be cherubim.
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Jun 18, 2012 11:13
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I was the guy who told him to do a live audio response!
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Jun 18, 2012 11:40
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Dolash posted:But isn't it plausible to say nature wouldn't stick in time loops for no reason? Why isn't that a reasonable theory? Why can't we discuss it, or use it as a jumping-off point for discussion? Physicist here, you're talking gobbldygook.
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Jun 18, 2012 13:24
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Zorak posted:You know: are the Felt supposed to be a variant of Cherubim? They're not that visually similar, but they are servants of English and have the same green thing going on. I had the same rough idea before but then I remembered that the chess game between UU and uu used red and green pieces. Maybe their SBURB game uses a Red and Green colour scheme to reflect this and the Felt are Carapaces or Imps? Skaia appeared black simply because it was a null session. Considering the Felt all looked unique leads me to be unsure though. The uu/UU session would only have two prototypings which makes the variety of the Felt difficult to achieve if they're Imps, right?
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Jun 18, 2012 13:27
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Popo posted:I had the same rough idea before but then I remembered that the chess game between UU and uu used red and green pieces. Maybe their SBURB game uses a Red and Green colour scheme to reflect this and the Felt are Carapaces or Imps? Skaia appeared black simply because it was a null session. The members of the Midnight Crew all looked unique, and they were just carapace people too. The Felt might be the result of an unusual configuration of archagents in UU/uu's Incipisphere.
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Jun 18, 2012 13:31
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Rose Spirit posted:Happened to be watching a PBS special this evening, am I crazy in seeing a resemblance in UU to Australopithecus afarensis more than a human skull? Mostly the prominent jaw and cheekbones, I guess. I don't have a link, but there's possibly another reason why Cherubs have prominent lower faces: Cherubism.
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Jun 18, 2012 14:48
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