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Endless Mike posted:How is it more featured? Umm, x86 support and domain support, I would imagine.
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Jun 21, 2012 19:43
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kri kri posted:Umm, x86 support and domain support, I would imagine.
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Jun 21, 2012 19:49
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Endless Mike posted:Pretty sure a Macbook Air (which is what he was comparing to, not an iPad) has x86 support and at least some level of domain support. And a keyboard and trackpad. And one more USB connector. And video output. According to the specs, the Pro Surface has Mini DisplayPort. I wouldn't call it better featured, though. I still kind of wouldn't mind the Pro as a second portable computer.
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Jun 21, 2012 19:50
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Kazy posted:According to the specs, the Pro Surface has Mini DisplayPort.
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Jun 21, 2012 19:53
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Endless Mike posted:How is it more featured? Full tablet capabilities and touch interface, while still maintaining a traditional desktop experience, with the addition of a keyboard and mouse, granted, but it's not going to cost 200 for a keyboard dock.
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Jun 21, 2012 20:05
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Yeah at $800 the pro would be a steal. I'd buy it for $1000. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be coming out any time soon so looks like it's the zenbook prime for me.
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Jun 21, 2012 20:29
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$799 is in fact competitive pricing with ultrabooks, as advertised. $599 is not quite competitive pricing with tablets, though; personally I'd be happy even if the Pro price turned out to be a little higher as long as the RT price was a little lower. Even 50 bucks cheaper would be pretty good. Maybe they're counting on OEM products to reach the lower-end market? Keep in mind this is MS's breakthrough product. It'd be a really good idea for them to break even or eat a loss on each unit sold for the time being, just to grab some market-share. Not like they can't afford it. Pretty sure they did that with the 360 and it paid off.
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Jun 21, 2012 20:37
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I think the problem is that consumers aren't going to think of pro as an ultrabook, but rather as a tablet with some nice additional functionality (perception vs. reality blah blah blah)... i don't think $799 is a good price point.
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Jun 21, 2012 22:00
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Mister Fister posted:I think the problem is that consumers aren't going to think of pro as an ultrabook, but rather as a tablet with some nice additional functionality (perception vs. reality blah blah blah)... i don't think $799 is a good price point. Eh, if that's what people are expecting there's a perfectly good WinRT tablet that meets that exact definition and is a good couple hundred bucks cheaper.
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Jun 21, 2012 22:18
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Mister Fister posted:I think the problem is that consumers aren't going to think of pro as an ultrabook, but rather as a tablet with some nice additional functionality (perception vs. reality blah blah blah)... i don't think $799 is a good price point. The Pro isn't targeted at consumers. It's targeted at businesses who want tablets, but need legacy app support, AD integration, and so forth.
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Jun 21, 2012 22:26
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Space Gopher posted:The Pro isn't targeted at consumers. It's targeted at businesses who want tablets, but need legacy app support, AD integration, and so forth. Exactly. I don't think that people are stupid enough to just sink the additional cost into the device with out figuring out what it is. Basically, I see it just like the Apple OSX/iOS divide, but instead you can also run iOS apps on the OSX devices. It's a win/win for Microsoft.
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Jun 21, 2012 23:12
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kri kri posted:http://techreport.com/discussions.x/23147 The source of the rumors appears to be "estimates from notebook players". I wonder what that means? How are their estimates any better than ours?
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Jun 22, 2012 00:12
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ljw1004 posted:The source of the rumors appears to be "estimates from notebook players". I wonder what that means? How are their estimates any better than ours? Digitimes tends to have connections with the supplier side and taiwanese OEMs. I wouldn't trust them for anything rumor-wise though. If their apple rumor track record is anything to go by, you're just as good flipping a coin.
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Jun 22, 2012 00:20
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$799 is a no go for me personally. I have no interest in buying the RT version, but for me the intel version doesn't stand out enough to warrant costing that much. As much as I love the design and the keyboard cover concept I can't help but feel like, right now, that's a gimmick. And I'm not paying several hundred dollars more for a tablet with a gimmick, even if I can compile on it.
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Jun 22, 2012 02:53
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ljw1004 posted:The source of the rumors appears to be "estimates from notebook players". I wonder what that means? How are their estimates any better than ours? That means that people guessed.
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Jun 22, 2012 03:43
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Startacus posted:With an optically bonded display they actually use an adhesive to glue the glass panel to the display. This does a couple of things. A) It eliminates air gap between the glass and the display which prevents condensation building up between the two and also makes the glass and display much closer so you feel like you're righting directly on the display. Trying to write with a digital pen on a non-optically bonded display is a pain in the rear end because it feels like the pen is so far away from the display. B) It increases the strength and durability of the display. This is the case with iPhone 4/4S now, isn't it? But not the iPad line.
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Jun 22, 2012 04:15
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Wait a minute, isn't the traditional Windows desktop on a 10-inch 1920x1080 screen going to be a squinty nightmare? I know Windows has options to increase the size of things, but in my experience it's very inconsistent. What's the point of the x86 version then?
microwave casserole fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Jun 22, 2012 |
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Jun 22, 2012 04:36
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microwave casserole posted:Wait a minute, isn't the traditional Windows desktop on a 10-inch 1920x1080 screen going to be a squinty nightmare? I know Windows has options to increase the size of things, but in my experience it's very inconsistent. What's the point of the x86 version then? So they can dump it on the enterprise market where IT staff can struggle to get crufty old software to work on a 2 piece netbook. Also a few misguided gamers may buy it.
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Jun 22, 2012 04:48
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microwave casserole posted:What's the point of the x86 version then? Idiot CJs, mostly.
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Jun 22, 2012 05:01
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Learn to DPI adjust
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Jun 22, 2012 05:02
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Factor Mystic posted:Learn to DPI adjust Increasing the DPI isn't magically going to make a desktop UI work on a 10 inch screen. Instead, large UI elements get awkwardly squashed into too little screen real estate making a painful experience into a differently painful experience. These past couple of decades of failed windows tablets and netbooks with desktop UIs? They failed for a reason. Amethyst fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Jun 22, 2012 |
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Jun 22, 2012 05:07
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I frankly don't understand the thought process of people thinking 799 is a bad price point for surface pro. People keep on bringing up the macbook air comparison so lets do a comparison with just the released facts and not conjecture. surface pro - macbook air 1080p vs 1440x900 ivy bridge vs ivy bridge 2 lbs vs 3 lbs capacitive touch screen with stylus vs nontouch screen windows 8 vs os x The current facts are that surface pro has a better resolution, has touch screen, weighs less, can use a stylus. The useability of windows 8 vs os x is a matter of personal preference. And people still think a macbook air at 1000 is a better proposition over a surface pro for 799?  Now personally, I doubt they will price it at 799, most likely 1000-1200. Unless component prices drop significantly, I don't see how they can offer it at 799.
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Jun 22, 2012 05:53
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I can already see this thing selling well with my friends in investment banking and equity research. I've got buddies in industry side roles like bus dev and executive leadership teams who would love this sort of thing too, sleek and professional looking (appearances are a big deal for this sort of poo poo), and capable with minimal hassle. gently caress me if i could even get some half decent excel time in with this thing it would be amazing. Macbook airs and ultra books are great for longer-range travel (in the air, on the road to site), but this would be great for around the office or across town. The general feedback from the iPad is that it's good to chill out with, but really getting anything done with it isn't what it's good at. This would be great for pulling into pitch presentations especially with the display-port out, i would imagine. In the consumer arena i'm sure it'll do OK, but this thing is going to be what people were hoping out of the BB Playbook. I think we need to be approaching our analysis of what this is by first determining who it's good for, and who it's intended for. If those two line up, it's all looking good for Microsoft. It can't be all things to all people, but i think it's gonna gain some decent traction. EDIT: And those price points aren't terrible. In the consumer side, yeah maybe $100 here and there would be a deal breaker for some people, but if this can make life easier for professionals, i can definitely see it catching on. crsktn fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Jun 22, 2012 |
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Jun 22, 2012 07:30
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lostleaf posted:I frankly don't understand the thought process of people thinking 799 is a bad price point for surface pro. People keep on bringing up the macbook air comparison so lets do a comparison with just the released facts and not conjecture. Because the surface doesn't have an apple logo on it. I seriously wish I were being snarky, but there does seem to be an "apple effect" wherein people happily pay more to get something of equal (or sometimes even less) capability as long as it's an apple product. quote:Now personally, I doubt they will price it at 799, most likely 1000-1200. Unless component prices drop significantly, I don't see how they can offer it at 799. I'm also expecting around $1k, sadly. I'd jump at an $800 pro surface. Seeing as I'll likely be going for the 128gb model, I'll probably have to tack on a couple extra hundred. If microsoft really wants to make any headway with this device, they're going to have to sell them for a loss like they did with the xbox. Your average consumer doesn't care about a lot of things more tech-savvy users like us do, so they're gonna have to make it, first off have at least a few of the big iPad apps at launch(and honestly, other than angry birds, I don't know what would be on that list), and secondly at a price equal or lower than the iPad if they want a shot. Even then, they're not going to have all the aftermarket accessories and other crap that iOS users have available. As a zune owner, I can say that was my biggest peeve. I had some stuff available to me, but I was pretty much stuck with the things you could buy for the thing at launch since pretty much no one bought one except me. Sadly, I doubt anyone at Microsoft will even start doing anything on this front until they get some real sales numbers in. I want this platform to work. Don't gently caress it up, Microsoft.
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Jun 22, 2012 15:21
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Latest set of rumors/leaks say we're looking at $599 for the WinRT Surface and a cool grand for the Win8 Pro Surface. WELP. I might still get one, but for the good of the platform I sincerely hope Nokia or Dell or somebody makes a cheaper Win8 tablet.
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Jun 22, 2012 15:35
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If they really do price themselves higher than the iPad the RT Surface will be completely stillborn. Time to start keeping an eye on Asus/Lenovo/Dell.
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Jun 22, 2012 15:46
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Factor Mystic posted:Learn to DPI adjust If you think this is sufficient then there is quite a lot you don't know about user interface design. Just sayin'.
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Jun 22, 2012 16:48
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Syrinxx posted:If they really do price themselves higher than the iPad the RT Surface will be completely stillborn. Time to start keeping an eye on Asus/Lenovo/Dell. The Surface with Windows 8 RT will still include a desktop mode so that it can run Office 15 RT, which is included. Do you really think that Microsoft is going to just give OEMs the ability to say "Office Included!" without it adding to the license cost?
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Jun 22, 2012 16:50
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duTrieux. posted:The Surface with Windows 8 RT will still include a desktop mode so that it can run Office 15 RT, which is included. Desktop mode that's only for Office isn't Desktop mode, it's just a bad way to port Office to the tablet. While Office may be useful to some people, a lot of people who just want a tablet may not find Office that important, and a lot of those who do will lean towards the Pro anyway. So what Microsoft thinks Office is worth may not be at all what the RT's potential customers think its worth, and it's the customers who get to decide.
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Jun 22, 2012 17:26
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lostleaf posted:
If they pro version is $799 it'll be garbage. Have you seen how bad $799 ultrabooks are? They'll be more than $1,000 and no one will buy them.
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Jun 22, 2012 17:31
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eric posted:If they pro version is $799 it'll be garbage. Have you seen how bad $799 ultrabooks are? They'll be more than $1,000 and no one will buy them. Corporations will buy them.
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Jun 22, 2012 18:03
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kri kri posted:Corporations will buy them. Corporations are already using iPads.
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Jun 22, 2012 18:07
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Fungah posted:Corporations are already using iPads. Some. However, iPads don't run Windows. That's the entire selling point for this device to corporate.
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Jun 22, 2012 18:11
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Fungah posted:Corporations are already using iPads. This IcedPee posted:Some. However, iPads don't run Windows. That's the entire selling point for this device to corporate. If they cared about running Windows on tablets the Windows 7 tablets would be selling well.
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Jun 22, 2012 18:14
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eric posted:This Furthermore, the enterprise tablet market isn't a market that is going to queue up at midnight and buy out the entire stock for a month. Its probably going to be more like testing a few devices for months and conducting some sort of study to determine whether a larger scale deployment is practical and then maybe a few executives or important players will get them.
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Jun 22, 2012 18:20
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Fungah posted:Furthermore, the enterprise tablet market isn't a market that is going to queue up at midnight and buy out the entire stock for a month. Its probably going to be more like testing a few devices for months and conducting some sort of study to determine whether a larger scale deployment is practical and then maybe a few executives or important players will get them. I'm sure a couple CJs will dupe their manager into buying a fully loaded Pro instead of three The New iPads.
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Jun 22, 2012 18:22
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eric posted:If they cared about running Windows on tablets the Windows 7 tablets would be selling well. I don't know.. I still don't think touch on Win7 is good enough to justify the form factor. It just feels clunky.
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Jun 22, 2012 18:24
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IcedPee posted:Because the surface doesn't have an apple logo on it. I seriously wish I were being snarky, but there does seem to be an "apple effect" wherein people happily pay more to get something of equal (or sometimes even less) capability as long as it's an apple product. You're playing the specs game on devices where the specs matter less than ever before, outside of dpi and weight. Surface does have a better DPI, but microsoft is also being oddly cagey about that. Weight is valuable, so points to surface pro on that. In both of those, the MBA is not exactly an awful choice either. I think assigning value to stylus is folly though, as demonstrated by the roaring success of previous tablets. In any case, the MBA/ultrabook vs. Surface Pro discussion comes down to "does this user like having a hybrid tablet or not?" Outside of that consideration, I don't think much else matters. I also love how this thread is playing the specs game on a device that doesn't even have solid specs.
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Jun 22, 2012 18:30
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duTrieux. posted:If you think this is sufficient then there is quite a lot you don't know about user interface design. Half snarky/half true. I run High DPI all the time, and it's clear when application designers don't take it into consideration. But I was mostly responding to "ho ho, a high res tablet means small text!!". Well, no, it doesn't. In Desktop you're correct that things can get trickier, but in Metro there's no reason to expect a problem. I haven't looked, but I wonder if DPI awareness is part of app store certification process? MrBond posted:I think assigning value to stylus is folly though, as demonstrated by the roaring success of previous tablets.
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Jun 22, 2012 18:31
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MrBond posted:You're playing the specs game on devices where the specs matter less than ever before, outside of dpi and weight. Surface does have a better DPI, but microsoft is also being oddly cagey about that. Weight is valuable, so points to surface pro on that. In both of those, the MBA is not exactly an awful choice either. I think assigning value to stylus is folly though, as demonstrated by the roaring success of previous tablets. I wasn't really trying to start a dick-measuring contest between two different devices that are not in the same niche. I was just responding to the idea that paying an extra $200 for a MacBook Air that is equal (probably) in hardware is somehow the obvious conclusion; it's only obvious when the device you want is a MacBook Air and you are comparing it to a device that is Not A MacBook Air.
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Jun 22, 2012 18:46
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