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Admirable Gusto posted:I thought you all might get a kick out of this: You have to remove the loving bumper cover to change the air filters. 
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Jun 23, 2012 00:53
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911 (997) DIY'ers over on Rennlist are freaking out about that. It looks a good 30 min and some air tools just to get to the filters. Sweet spot for a 911 (if you can swing it) is still a 2009 C2S.
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Jun 23, 2012 01:00
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Keyser S0ze posted:I think they are finally doing it starting with the F30 Coupe which will be a 4 and M4. So just like that, BMW throws out almost 40 years of branding? I have a really hard time believing that they'll do it. The 3-Series has always had a coupe option; hell, as the E21, it was ONLY a coupe. As for the M3, I can't imagine they'll call the coupe an M4, even if the regular F30 coupe is branded as a 4-Series - just too much history there to ignore.
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Jun 23, 2012 01:05
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MrChips posted:So just like that, BMW throws out almost 40 years of branding? I have a really hard time believing that they'll do it. No official announcement yet but it seems to be trending..........no idea of the % accuracy of any of these but none of it would surprise me if true. They definitely want to make sure we know the coupes are more exclusive than the sedans. http://www.bimmerpost.com/spyshots/ http://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw-4-series/ke3834.html http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/scoop/bmw-4-series-latest-spy-pics There is an X4 coming as well. Keyser_Soze fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jun 23, 2012 |
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Jun 23, 2012 01:12
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Keyser S0ze posted:911 (997) DIY'ers over on Rennlist are freaking out about that. It looks a good 30 min and some air tools just to get to the filters. Sweet spot for a 911 (if you can swing it) is still a 2009 C2S.
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Jun 23, 2012 01:14
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grover posted:No, that's what I want to see. Instead, we got a Giulietta that's larger and heavier and with softened suspension. There are worse cars out there, for sure, but is it too much to hope for the manufacturers to roll out actual light weight compact sporty cars with perky engines? Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I'd love to see more manufacturers come out with small sporty cars like the Miata and BRZ/FR-S, but with inexpensive powerful engines like you can get on a $23 Mustang. Is that too much to hope for? Or will we forever be given econoboxes with body kits? What distinguishes a "small sporty car" from on econobox in your opinion? RWD? Bespoke chassis? An enormous engine putting out 300+ hp? Miatas and BRZs are all well and good, but they're pretty expensive and honestly not super practical. Like it or not, most people buy cars to commute to work and carry their stuff first and foremost. The Mustang can sell for $23 because of design compromises to keep the costs down. If they could stick a bigger engine in a Miata or BRZ without changing the price and handling, they would have done it already. I'm a big proponent of the small RWD car, but I can't deny that there are plenty of great, sporty FWD cars out there that drive great and even compete well in motorsport, too. In my mind, what distinguishes a sporty car from an econobox of equivalent price is first and foremost whether it's fun to drive. You could also look at how the designer spent money/engineering assets on stuff that enhances the sport driving experience like power, handling, driver feedback, etc., versus non-sport stuff like NVH, interior quality, maintenance schedules, ride height, cargo capacity, and passenger room. I'm not convinced that there's being a sporty car and being an econobox are mutually exclusive. What about the Neon SRT-4 or turbo Cobalt SS? Both are econoboxes with body kits, but both are also undeniably sporty cars. Same with the various hot hatches like the MS3, WRX, or GTI. The whole point of these cars is to use the volume of an economy car to subsidize the cost of a sporty car. Much respected sports models like the STi or Evo started out as high-end drivetrains smushed into an economy car, with interiors to match. Otherwise, dunno. The new Cadillac ATS is seems to be a new small car that puts performance first. But then again, there's that price tag. In the cheapest range, I can personally say that the Mazda 2 is genuinely fun to drive. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Jun 23, 2012 |
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Jun 23, 2012 01:26
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Keyser S0ze posted:No official announcement yet but it seems to be trending..........no idea of the % accuracy of any of these but none of it would surprise me if true. They definitely want to make sure we know the coupes are more exclusive than the sedans. I agree there are a lot of articles talking about the coupe being the 4-Series, but at the end of the day, it's just moron car journos trying to come up with column-inches. They can flap their jaws till they fall off; until it actually happens, it's pure speculation and nothing more. Just look at how "the next Corvette is going to be mid-engined WE PROMISE" keeps turning out as an example of the wild fiction these guys come up with constantly.
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Jun 23, 2012 01:54
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Chrysler probably shouldn't make a pure (two-door rwd vehicle, imo) small sports car until a few more years of practical success. That being said, a light Dodge/Chrysler coupe based off the upcoming Miata/Spider would be awesome. Drop the pentastar V6 in it with a catchy name like demon, crossfire, venom or whatever and they might have a huge hit on their hands. As awesome as it sounds, this kind of car should be secondary to establishing quality products in the biggest segments, which is what Fiatsler is doing right now. I hope they succeed so we can see cars like that. The SRT Barracuda, while smaller and cheaper than the Viper, is still going to be pretty expensive, so they might be able to make a business case for a small sports car.
Tekne fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jun 23, 2012 |
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Jun 23, 2012 02:05
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MrChips posted:So just like that, BMW throws out almost 40 years of branding? I have a really hard time believing that they'll do it. I think they will do it. Not only that, I bet they will gently caress around and in five years and start offering a four series sedan and SUV, just like they did with the Six series. This is just an attempt to expand their offerings and bring the three series up-market.
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Jun 23, 2012 02:45
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The new compact FWD economy car isn't literally a Miata? WHY WON'T DETROIT MAKE CARS PEOPLE WANT TO BUY  There's speculation that they are going to bring the 2 door LY Challenger over to Europe too. I hope they badge it as a Lancia Stratos for maximum trolling amusement.
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Jun 23, 2012 03:02
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The answer is always Mazda.
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Jun 23, 2012 07:08
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You just wait. There will be a FWD BMW in our lifetime.
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Jun 23, 2012 07:34
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MetaJew posted:You just wait. There will be a FWD BMW in our lifetime. Yup, you're right.
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Jun 23, 2012 07:40
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MetaJew posted:You just wait. There will be a FWD BMW in our lifetime. MINI?
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Jun 23, 2012 07:46
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So, of the German auto manufacturers you can either buy 1) An 2) An automatic (Merc) 3) Or a FWD shitbox. Great. MetaJew fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Jun 23, 2012 |
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Jun 23, 2012 07:47
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RWD makes no sense in a car like the basic versions of the 1-series hatch - it just compromises packaging too much
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Jun 23, 2012 08:45
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MetaJew posted:You just wait. There will be a FWD BMW in our lifetime. http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/1-series-owners-think-its-fwd Autocar posted:Four out of five BMW 1-series drivers think their car is front-wheel drive, according to the firm’s CEO Norbert Reithofer.
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Jun 23, 2012 15:00
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grover posted:80% of BMW 1-series owners already think they do.  Jesus. A lot of stupid car owners out there.
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Jun 23, 2012 16:13
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Whip Slagcheek posted:
I don't think so. RWD just doesn't matter to most people, in everyday driving you'd be very hard pressed to feel any difference, especially in a small car like the 1-series when compared to say, a Mazda 3 or a Honda Civic.
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Jun 23, 2012 16:15
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KozmoNaut posted:I don't think so. I'm saying more along the lines of, if you own a car you should know the basics like whether your car is FWD, RWD, or AWD. Its not asking a lot. 
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Jun 23, 2012 16:19
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Whip Slagcheek posted:I'm saying more along the lines of, if you own a car you should know the basics like whether your car is FWD, RWD, or AWD. Its not asking a lot. I agree. It's a very basic and important aspect of the car. It greatly affects the way that the car responds to a variety of conditions. -- That Porsche 991 engine teardown video is nuts. On the one hand, I can understand why people might be pissed that they can't work on it themselves, but on the other hand, it seems so high-tech that most DIYers would just gently caress it up. If the engine really is as high performance as that engine bay looks, it's probably better to leave it to the pros. There's nothing preventing you from doing it yourself, though. Yea, it's a pain in the rear end, but I thought that was the norm for high-end cars these days.
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Jun 23, 2012 16:37
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Un-l337-Pork posted:That Porsche 991 engine teardown video is nuts. On the one hand, I can understand why people might be pissed that they can't work on it themselves, but on the other hand, it seems so high-tech that most DIYers would just gently caress it up. If the engine really is as high performance as that engine bay looks, it's probably better to leave it to the pros. There's nothing preventing you from doing it yourself, though. Yea, it's a pain in the rear end, but I thought that was the norm for high-end cars these days. Great for their business model, sucks for the rest of us. grover fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Jun 23, 2012 |
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Jun 23, 2012 16:45
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Whip Slagcheek posted:I'm saying more along the lines of, if you own a car you should know the basics like whether your car is FWD, RWD, or AWD. Its not asking a lot. The problem is that most people just don't care. They get in the car, push the pedals and turn the steering wheel, and it gets them from A to B. Sometimes they take it in for a service, but they have no idea what actually goes on during said servicing. They look at the bill, conclude that it all sounds very technical and pay whatever the nice salesman asks them to. These people buy a BMW because of the prestige associated with the badge and because it's a luxury car with added Euro-exclusivity on top. They care about comfortable leather seats, good air conditioning and most often a smooth automatic gearbox.
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Jun 23, 2012 17:10
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grover posted:Porsche is not building the 991 for shadetree mechanics. They're building it for people who can afford to drop $100k+ on a car. ^^^ ya that for sure. Most new 911 buyers are just doing 3 year leases for $1600/mo and not caring about long term ownership or DIY. Newer Rennlist thread, but since it's only every 40k I don't think most will care. The older thread in the 997 forum was more "WTF?" http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=703054 I am still punching myself in the balls for not buying a 993 10 years ago, the prices on those keep going up and up still. Keyser_Soze fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Jun 23, 2012 |
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Jun 23, 2012 17:12
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grover posted:Great for their business model, sucks for the rest of us. If you don't want to pay Superior German Sports Car prices for maintenance, I can think of an easy way to avoid that problem! A pain-in-the-rear end engine to work on is a proud Porsche tradition, and is a compromise they make for getting the iconic shape, rear engine, rear wheel drive, and a car that doesn't instantly burst into flames when rear-ended by a duallie Ram.
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Jun 23, 2012 17:54
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http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/06/23/teen-flips-car-into-garage-alcohol-may-be-factor/ A probably drunk sixteen year old with four of his friends flipped a new dart off a boulder through a garage door, but luckily, nobody was killed by his joyride. Hooray for free advertising, I guess.
Tekne fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jun 23, 2012 |
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Jun 23, 2012 18:20
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BonzoESC posted:A pain-in-the-rear end engine to work on is a proud Porsche tradition, and is a compromise they make for getting the iconic shape, rear engine, rear wheel drive, and a car that doesn't instantly burst into flames when rear-ended by a duallie Ram. It never used to be; only after the 964 did maintenance become more of a hassle. My dad owned a '73 911, and I never remember any major difficulty working on that engine. Even dropping the engine/transaxle was a simple task.
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Jun 23, 2012 20:45
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Tekne posted:http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/06/23/teen-flips-car-into-garage-alcohol-may-be-factor/ A probably drunk sixteen year old with four of his friends flipped a new dart off a boulder through a garage door, but luckily, nobody was killed by his joyride. Hooray for free advertising, I guess. And who ever said the new dart didn't live up to the name.
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Jun 23, 2012 20:54
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The 1.4L turbo gets mad air. http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/oakland_county/suspected-joyride-ends-with-terror-in-rochester-hills-subdivision-2-teens-injured According to this witness, the dart was going around 100mph - unlikely, although I don't doubt it was at stupid speeds - before it violently split the boulder it struck in half and woke the neighborhood with its messy landing. "Watch guys, I'm Travis PastrARGHAAAA..."
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Jun 23, 2012 21:38
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Un-l337-Pork posted:I agree. It's a very basic and important aspect of the car. It greatly affects the way that the car responds to a variety of conditions. The traction control ensures that it responds exactly the same whether it's RWD, AWD or FWD. A 1 series isn't a sports car, it's a grocery getter for the slightly better off. It might as well be FWD. Now if BMW made a small 2 door roadster on the 1 series platform............................... 
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Jun 23, 2012 22:08
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My favorite BMW in modern times was the 1M, so I am sad that it presumably isn't coming back/will be turned into a piece of poo poo.
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Jun 23, 2012 23:41
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Sinestro posted:My favorite BMW in modern times was the 1M, so I am sad that it presumably isn't coming back/will be turned into a piece of poo poo. Yeah, because all FWD cars ever are like basically just turds on wheels. Right, man? 
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Jun 23, 2012 23:55
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Linedance posted:A 1 series isn't a sports car, it's a grocery getter for the slightly better off. It might as well be FWD. Now if BMW made a small 2 door roadster on the 1 series platform............................... Not a fan of the 1M or 135i, I take it?
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Jun 24, 2012 00:05
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KozmoNaut posted:Yeah, because all FWD cars ever are like basically just turds on wheels. Right, man? Well, the problem is that a lot of FWD cars are FWD because the designers want to cut costs, so it's sort of a signal that other areas of the car might be compromised. I believe it's perfectly possible to make a good FWD car, and the expanding niche of excellent hot hatches is evidence of this, but FWD correlates strongly with "lovely" even if it's not responsible for it. Then, of course, people dislike FWD based on their own experience because they've probably only driven lovely FWD cars.
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Jun 24, 2012 00:09
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IMHO, FWD only works if the car is relatively powerless. I can attest to hating driving the Maxima/Acura TL FWD beasts of a few years ago. My father had a Maxima and you had to wrestle the fucker to get it to corner at all and I'm not talking about taking the Laguna Seca corkscrew in anger but pulling out of a Safeway parking lot.
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Jun 24, 2012 00:32
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Keyser S0ze posted:IMHO, FWD only works if the car is relatively powerless. I can attest to hating driving the Maxima/Acura TL FWD beasts of a few years ago. My father had a Maxima and you had to wrestle the fucker to get it to corner at all and I'm not talking about taking the Laguna Seca corkscrew in anger but pulling out of a Safeway parking lot. Well, exactly. That's probably because the car was poorly designed, not because it was FWD. There are plenty of reasonably powerful FWD cars that don't blow rear end.
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Jun 24, 2012 00:33
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The FWD drive BMW is going to have a 1.5L 3 cylinder motor, that seems awfully weird. How are they going to deal with the generally undesirable NVH qualities you get with a 3 cylinder motor? Sounds like it's going to be a tiny, possibly European only car anyways.
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Jun 24, 2012 00:48
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kimbo305 posted:Not a fan of the 1M or 135i, I take it? Its kinda silly to compromise the volume sellers on account of the extremely rare top spec models. Remember your basic model petrol or diesel 1-series has ~100HP PT6A posted:Well, the problem is that a lot of FWD cars are FWD because the designers want to cut costs, so it's sort of a signal that other areas of the car might be compromised. I believe it's perfectly possible to make a good FWD car, and the expanding niche of excellent hot hatches is evidence of this, but FWD correlates strongly with "lovely" even if it's not responsible for it. Then, of course, people dislike FWD based on their own experience because they've probably only driven lovely FWD cars. There were a lot of terrible RWD cars too before FWD became the defacto standard. Compare the last of the RWD Corollas or 323s to the first of the FWD models - they were universally well received at the time.
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Jun 24, 2012 01:03
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Keyser S0ze posted:IMHO, FWD only works if the car is relatively powerless. I can attest to hating driving the Maxima/Acura TL FWD beasts of a few years ago. My father had a Maxima and you had to wrestle the fucker to get it to corner at all and I'm not talking about taking the Laguna Seca corkscrew in anger but pulling out of a Safeway parking lot. How fast are you pulling out of a Safeway parking lot? 
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Jun 24, 2012 01:27
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KozmoNaut posted:Yeah, because all FWD cars ever are like basically just turds on wheels. Right, man? To be fair, 335+ hp like in the 1M in a FWD car would be pretty bad. They could still have a performance model, but it wouldn't be a mini-M3 like the 1M is supposed to be. They'd have to either cut the power and cut a lot of weight or else do up some sort of AWD system to handle that level of power, both of which makes it less likely that a future 1M would be more available than the current one. Considering how big the M3 has gotten as well as the fact that there's no plans to release another M coupe on the also fattened Z4, this decreases the chance of a successor to that big power in a small RWD body car formula that usually comprises the enthusiast option for BMWs. Especially if the 3 series gets moved further up in size. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Jun 24, 2012 |
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Jun 24, 2012 03:00
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