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02-6611-0142-1 posted:Maybe it's like one of those Step Up movies where you solve all your feuds by having Fresher Moves than the other guy If only all the worlds problems could be solved by dance-fights.
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Jun 22, 2012 23:35
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Fontoyn posted:Seriously? Capo in Brazil is done primarily by gang bangers, drug dealers, thugs, etc. Only in foreign countries is it done by 'normal' people. Which is why a LOT of mestres move out of Brazil, in order to have a stable life and train. I'm pretty sure that Berlin has more mestres in one city than any other city, and Europe probably has more than Brazil.
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Jun 23, 2012 01:35
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I remember when I was in Rio they talked about how that fight on Copacabana beach was the "first ever MMA fight!" I can't say I really saw Capoeira being practiced anywhere. I did it for 6 months a long time ago stateside. It's fun. I half expected to at least see a Capoeira Rota on the beach boardwalk at least once in Rio. I'm sure there was places to train if I looked. Apparently it's only real popular in the Northern part of Brazil, Salvador. Which I hear is like 95% black and also the poorest region of Brazil. (RACIST!)I can't say it's only done by those types of people but it is funny that in the US at least it's only really done but the middle/upper class white folk. From what I've seen Training Jiu Jitsu in Rio was awesome, though. And I recommend everyone do it at least once.
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Jun 23, 2012 02:24
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Fontoyn posted:STRIKECHAT (these tags are good for people who skim) I just punch the gently caress out of someone's face when hopping on one leg if my kicks get caught. Best to avoid it by being better at kicking though. Not MMA so not worried about single legs
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Jun 23, 2012 03:45
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gimpsuitjones posted:I just punch the gently caress out of someone's face when hopping on one leg if my kicks get caught. Getting your kick caught and having to balance and defend against sweeps or single legs is good for you. You can even practice establishing a whizzer. I suppose I'm used to that idea because I do sanda where counter throws are common.
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Jun 23, 2012 04:13
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Yeah we sweep people from caught kicks, I just find that cross to face, repeat as needed, is a good defence
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Jun 23, 2012 04:17
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gimpsuitjones posted:Yeah we sweep people from caught kicks, I just find that cross to face, repeat as needed, is a good defence A new guy at sparring has been catching my kicks and it was really throwing me off (this is kickboxing so I've never had anyone catch me before - he has a different fighting background, not sure what). Eventually I just started doing exactly that and he was much more reluctant to catch them. That and shattering kicks which are much harder to catch.
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Jun 23, 2012 04:27
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You want to set up the catch and sweep so that your guard and upper body stymie a cross counter. If you expect the opponent to start punching, lift the caught leg high up in the air. It takes even more juice out of the punches. This is not quite textbook but still a really good application: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln-8bkkzWJw&t=19s Cung slips a bit to Frank's outside and narrow avoids the lead punch while stepping in and sweeping. Committing deeply to the sweep will resolve the situation faster. If your first sweep doesn't work, then yeah, definitely the guy is going to have open range counter punching. And... maybe you'd still be vulnerable to the hail mary kick-with-other-leg tactic.
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Jun 23, 2012 04:36
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:Maybe it's like one of those Step Up movies where you solve all your feuds by having Fresher Moves than the other guy Everyone needs to spend a Sunday afternoon watching Only the Strong.
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Jun 23, 2012 06:30
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It probably deserves to be pointed out that the history of capoeira is really fascinating. In short, it was developed by slaves who had to camouflage their martial arts practice.
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Jun 23, 2012 06:44
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actually it was developed to give sleazy instructors the best shot at loving the hottest hippie girl in town
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Jun 23, 2012 07:40
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actually it was developed to give the local group a valid reason to meet and then gently caress the sleazy instructor AND each other in turn
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Jun 23, 2012 10:11
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So, uh, where can I train this?
entris fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jun 23, 2012 |
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Jun 23, 2012 20:32
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Sweet, small victories this week: 1 - Going against "I never tap to arm bars" guy and showing him that he'll sure as gently caress tap to wrist locks 2 - Starting to work this move in striking where you throw a low roundhouse kick that barely connects but its a feint, and you use it to load up a side kick from the other side...got shown this in class on Tuesday and have been landing it steadily since then Things I should have mastered on day one that I cannot believe I'm still horrible at: 1 - Tieing a belt when wearing gi 2 - Wrapping my hands...I look like an extra in a mummy movie
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Jun 23, 2012 20:41
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Kekekela posted:Things I should have mastered on day one that I cannot believe I'm still horrible at: Watch Royce Gracie's 10 minute instructional video on belt tying. Its hilarious.
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Jun 23, 2012 22:28
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The belt for my gi is way too short I think I got a child's one or something Not fat, just retarded
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Jun 24, 2012 01:27
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Does anyone have any recommendations for decent cups that don't restrict kicking too much? I recently started teaching at a Taekwon-Do school where the adults are impressively inflexible and I forgot how much these outside groin guards suck. I've heard good things about the Shock Doctor w/ compression shorts, and I figure I could just pop the cup in when I need to spar and not have to wear it all the time while I'm teaching.
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Jun 24, 2012 02:30
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I got the shock doctor shorts and hated them. Now I have a Thai style steel cup with the three strings one of which goes up your arsecrack and it is the best thing ever for 'my balls not hurting'
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Jun 24, 2012 02:43
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Fontoyn posted:Seriously? Capoeirachat! for those interested Issue #1: Capoeira is kind of unique among martial arts in that its rules for the roda (which is both for sparring and "for real" conflicts) are dynamic. That's actually the role played by the music: not to establish a rhythm for anyone to dance to, but to establish the context of the roda. The context says what goes and what doesn't go. For instance, in some games you may be trying to play as beautifully and skilfully as possible, and actually connecting with the opponent is considered rude. You're supposed to show that you could have connected, but don't actually do it. Some games are more contact oriented. You're supposed to sweep and connect with kicks and sometimes even grapple a little bit, but slapping, punching and extensive ground game are a no-no. Sometimes... everything goes. Really, you have no idea how much a capoeira roda can shift into proto-MMA or even brainless brawling. This end of the spectrum is not exported and marketed nearly as much as the other end. Issue #2: There is no central authority for capoeira practitioners. No standardised system of ranks or moves or nothing. Which means anyone can splinter off from his group and go out calling himself a master. The result is that in the capoeira scene you have a few really big schools (Abadá being the biggest) and literally thousands of small-time masters. Now combine issues #1 and #2. The only way to prove that you have true skills in capoeira is to test yourself in rodas hosted by other people, other groups. Most of the time, sadly, these rodas will be hostile toward strangers, especially people seeking to prove themselves. Add to that many small-time masters offer classes in rough neighbourhoods to people who are uneducated and unprepared, exactly the sort of people you don't want to introduce to a lifestyle of going around town and beating people up. You can watch this is you observe a roda for long enough. Most street rodas are for show: a group showing off their coolest moves. But if, at any point, a stranger comes in the roda and asks to play, watch as the smiling faces of the people in the roda instantly grow serious and the atmosphere becomes tense. Some groups don't let strangers play in their rodas, period. Some will happily embrace the opportunity to pick a fight at the slightest offense. It takes all kinds. No wonder most truly good instructors ache to leave Brazil and teach somewhere abroad where they get orders of magnitude more money than in Brazil and don't have to deal with this poo poo. So yeah, that's the reality of capoeira, at least in Rio. The fancy jumps and swirling kicks are marketing. Behind the scenes there's some awful poo poo going on. Christoff posted:Apparently it's only real popular in the Northern part of Brazil, Salvador. Which I hear is like 95% black and also the poorest region of Brazil. Kind of sort of. First, Salvador is a city, capital of the state of Bahia, Northeast Brazil. It's the birthplace of the precursor to contemporary capoeira (which was called "regional capoeira"). It isn't the poorest region of Brazil, but it's certainly way too rough and violent for a high-profile capital of a state. Salvador's thing with capoeira is that it's a tourist attraction for the city. It has the reputation of being full of capoeira all the time, so at any point in the street you can spot a group doing an exhibition of sommersaults and spins and acrobatics. It's tourist stuff, really. That's why it's "more popular" there. Behind the scenes you get the same situation I described above. I guarantee you that capoeira is plenty popular everywhere else in the country, especially Rio. Most of it happens in poor neighbourhoods at budget price with awful instructors. Many "schools" are basically just an excuse for pent-up young, poor people to vent in a dangerous way.
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Jun 24, 2012 02:44
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The Deadly Secret of Capoeira: Revealed!
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Jun 24, 2012 10:11
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So, does capoeira make you beautiful, or do only beautiful people do capoeira? Discuss. E; I would like to try capoeira, except it would be rendered impossible by deep insecurities in regards to dancing and mind-crushing self awareness of what travesty you're exposing everyone around you to. Bohemian Nights fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Jun 24, 2012 |
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Jun 24, 2012 10:41
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Sounds like crossfit.....
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Jun 24, 2012 10:44
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Have you got a video of a Capoeira brawl?
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Jun 24, 2012 11:04
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Wrestling ruins everything http://youtube.com/watch?v=qgHTJ760GBQ
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Jun 24, 2012 11:14
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niethan posted:Wrestling ruins everything Hahahaha I was just going to post that. It's awesome, first they play and do somersaults and poo poo, then suddenly some of them punch each other and start wrestling for a while.
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Jun 24, 2012 11:23
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Cyphoderus posted:You're supposed to show that you could have connected, but don't actually do it. Some games are more contact oriented. You're supposed to sweep and connect with kicks and sometimes even grapple a little bit, but slapping, punching and extensive ground game are a no-no. Sometimes... everything goes. Really, you have no idea how much a capoeira roda can shift into proto-MMA or even brainless brawling. This end of the spectrum is not exported and marketed nearly as much as the other end. In the US, is there ever any real sparring? Strikes and sweeps on a hard floor without protective gear seems like it'd never fly.
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Jun 24, 2012 18:37
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kimbo305 posted:In the US, is there ever any real sparring? Strikes and sweeps on a hard floor without protective gear seems like it'd never fly. I have friends that are very involved with the capoeira community up here in Canada (axe capoeira), and every year they have a batizado (festival) where all the Brazilians come to our city for a few days. The usual roda activities here are very tame with almost no wrestling/takedowns, and then right before the batizado they amp up the intensity. When the Brazilians get here, it's full on. Sometimes things do get a little heated inside the roda, and I've seen some pretty aggressive fights break out. I know a female instructor that has a bunch of scars on her face from when things got ugly with another female in the roda. Just my two cents.
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Jun 24, 2012 19:47
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Bohemian Nights posted:So, does capoeira make you beautiful, or do only beautiful people do capoeira? Discuss. Oh believe me, there's plenty of ugly people doing capoeira out there  There's no dancing involved at all. If you want, you can build your own personal style of game in a very no-nonsense manner, minimising excessive flourishes and emphasising technical movement and smart strikes and takedowns. I I always found it's a much more elegant way to play than to jump and twirl like a maniac, and it's the style that I used to focus on.
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Jun 24, 2012 23:08
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Does Dennis Newsome have any pull in the larger capoeira community? He made some waves talking up 52/Jailhouse Rock/The Deadly Fighting Art of America's Fiercest Prisoners then dropped off the face of the earth. Rener and Ryron spent some time talking about streetfighting and jiu jitsu. It's 10% talk about mindset, 90% sales pitch, but I remember there was a lot of interest in the fight video that was posted here a few months back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e864iZ4sB8Q
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Jun 25, 2012 19:51
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This is pretty tangential but related to the self defense topic: I understand why every ma sells defense and why it gets people through the door. I think the first skill level you pass is if you can use whatever you do on an untrained guy near your size, or a lot bigger. Once you're schooling dudes fresh off the street with relative ease, i can't imagine staying interested in not moving further, but a lot of these schools never talk about anything except that. I just see those adds for self defense martial arts and think, "how can you train that for years and still find it interesting or challenging?" Like even if you're into kung fu, you can work kata until you die, or reach higher and higher inside yourself but the skill ceiling for beating up drunks is awfully low.
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Jun 25, 2012 20:15
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Xguard86 posted:This is pretty tangential but related to the self defense topic: There's more depth to self-defense than that, I think. A 1v1 fight against a drunk person is pretty easy for a trained person, I agree, but the more likely scenario is that you get jumped by multiple attackers, with weapons in play. Also, you really shouldn't be fighting 1v1 against a drunk person anyway - just leave. Someone who really wants to defend themselves should learn how to defend against 2 or 3 attackers, and they should learn how to defend against weapons - clubs, knives, and guns. (Defending against a weapon, when you are unarmed, is a pretty terrible idea regardless of how amazing you are, so I would never recommend that unless you literally are about to be beaten/stabbed/shot.) Because a good defense against multiple attackers, and against weapons, is to have a weapon yourself, you are now looking at a curriculum that includes weapon training - and not your traditional martial arts weapons that nobody is going to carry around (I'm looking at you, tonfa, three-part staff, rope-dart, swords, bows+arrows, two-handed anything, whips, etc.). You are looking at learning how to use small knives, guns, and clubs. I would say that a curriculum which deals wtih multiple attackers, defense against weapons, and offensive use of weapons, is a pretty difficult curriculum to feel confident in - it's a much higher bar than just defending against drunks.
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Jun 25, 2012 20:24
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Xguard86 posted:Like even if you're into kung fu, you can work kata until you die, or reach higher and higher inside yourself but the skill ceiling for beating up drunks is awfully low. People delude themselves into thinking that they're perfecting the last infinitesimal amount of technique left, which will double their power level or technique effectiveness.
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Jun 25, 2012 20:33
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entris posted:I would say that a curriculum which deals wtih multiple attackers, defense against weapons, and offensive use of weapons, is a pretty difficult curriculum to feel confident in - it's a much higher bar than just defending against drunks. If I ever met someone training all this concurrently I'd wonder why they didn't just sign up for BUD/S.
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Jun 25, 2012 20:54
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entris posted:There's more depth to self-defense than that, I think. A 1v1 fight against a drunk person is pretty easy for a trained person, I agree, but the more likely scenario is that you get jumped by multiple attackers, with weapons in play. Also, you really shouldn't be fighting 1v1 against a drunk person anyway - just leave. It still seems, to me, that spending so much time getting good at something that is incredibly unlikely is a weird way to spend your time. Especially when you get into situations with a lot of people or gun/knives where you're pretty much hosed no matter what. Multiple people is fun though, we did 2 on 1 in bjj one saturday and it was pretty interesting to see how everyone modified their game. I caught one guy's back and just kept spinning him around as a shield. My friend grabbed a guy in a triangle and starting yelling that he'd totally kill this dude if we don't leave our wallets and get the hell out of here. It was pretty funny.
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Jun 25, 2012 20:58
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kimbo305 posted:People delude themselves into thinking that they're perfecting the last infinitesimal amount of technique left, which will double their power level or technique effectiveness. And yet, with certain martial arts, it's not a delusion. I will never forget the day I learned to add a little hop forward to my kicks. Won my next fight by numbing the guy's jab in the first round with high rights
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Jun 25, 2012 21:11
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Xguard86 posted:It still seems, to me, that spending so much time getting good at something that is incredibly unlikely is a weird way to spend your time. Especially when you get into situations with a lot of people or gun/knives where you're pretty much hosed no matter what. Don't get me wrong, I love combat sports. But places should not advertise 'self defense' when they're pretty much teaching the same drat thing they normally would. Combative sports and defensive/combative programs go hand in hand. Sure there may be some stuff or tactics from the sports side you can't use. But the one high point of combative sports is they allow an method to train regularly and develop a baseline skill set in grappling or striking. If you do want to train self defense, then I agree you should get serious about it. Otherwise it's easy to get into a complacent mind set where you think you know what you don't know, (say you're at a pro or amateur competitive level) and then get seriously injured. Far too many instructors go "On the street...." about poo poo that is completely and utterly wrong. Senor P. fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jun 25, 2012 |
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Jun 25, 2012 21:15
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Combat sports prepare you better for multiple attackers than self-defense classes will. Unless you're just going to go ahead and stab/shoot someone, in which case have fun in prison.
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Jun 25, 2012 21:22
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"Everybody is talking about gun control. Got to control the guns. gently caress, that, I like guns. If you've got a gun, you don't need to work out! Cause, I ain't working out. I ain't jogging." -- Chris Rock
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Jun 25, 2012 21:26
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Polyrhythmic Panda posted:Combat sports prepare you better for multiple attackers than self-defense classes will. Unless you're just going to go ahead and stab/shoot someone, in which case have fun in prison. just go Iceman Style: put your back to a wall, flip your watch over your knuckles and knockout anyone who comes within range.
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Jun 25, 2012 21:45
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Polyrhythmic Panda posted:Combat sports prepare you better for multiple attackers than self-defense classes will. Unless you're just going to go ahead and stab/shoot someone, in which case have fun in prison. However, actually practicing against multiple attackers or looking at the tactics an attacker uses, I would disagree. Again, this is my experience from the gyms I've been to. Most places don't set aside time to practice grappling with a firearm or don't do 2 on 1 as 'serious' training. When instructors start to say "On the street..." generally its time to stop listening to them because they're usually wrong. People, who are serious about DT training, should probably do something similar to below: 1. Practice the combative sports of their choice regularly during the week, and work on filling in the gaps as needed. 2. Pick and choose what makes sense and what doesn't for you. 3. Get in regular range time. 4. Go to a DT seminar every couple months or maybe a DT training group once or twice a week and work on grappling with firearms, 2 on 1, etc.... 5. Lift and run regularly, conditioning matters. Senor P. fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Jun 25, 2012 |
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Jun 25, 2012 21:47
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