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Suaimhneas posted:I'm also not convinced that the panels following Roxy's blackout are what's actually happening, or just what uu is imagining. It's hard to say. My kingdom for a reliable narrator. Seriously, Doc Scratch was better, although for effect uu is quite something I just hope we don't have to put up with him for long.
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Jun 26, 2012 13:05
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Alternatively, Lil' Cal punched him. The panel is at least a little ambiguous. Crazy theory: We know the cue ball made Doc Scratch omniscient, but we don't know for sure it turned him into Lord English. He was also created with Lil' Cal. And uu has been haa haa hoo hoo hee hee'ing a remarkable amount recently. I think Lil' Cal somehow contains the essence of uu - maybe it's his juju?
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Jun 26, 2012 13:08
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Other things I find neat: - What appears to be a disconnected robotic appendage on uu's desk as he's drawing KO'd Dirk. - Somehow Sawtooth and Squarewave ?-ing at each other is oddly adorable. What the hell, me. 
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Jun 26, 2012 13:21
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Hold on a minute. Reading and looking very carefully, here's what uu actually saw: Jane got stabbed through the chest. Then it blacked out, and he made a drawing that said "DEAD.". Jake got rushed back to Earth by Lil Seb. He put on his skulltop then went unconscious. uu did not observe a blackout of Jake. Roxy was about to be stabbed. Then it blacked out, and he made a drawing that said "DEAD. ARTIST'S RENDITION.". We saw a panel where she had been stabbed, but uu did not see that. Dirk's dreamself was shielding himself from rubble. Then it blacked out, and he made a drawing that said "KO'D. ARTIST'S RENDITION.". We saw a panel where he had been knocked down (out, I assume), but uu did not see that. Dirk's real self has a thought bubble where his Derse symbol blacks out. He then releases Lil Cal and falls down. uu draws "KO'D. ACTUAL FOOTAGE." so he must have actually seen this. uu did not yet observe a blackout of Dirk's real self. I guess what I'm saying is this blackout poo poo and who it affects when on their subjective and objective timelines is drat strange.
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Jun 26, 2012 13:30
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TheDemon posted:I guess what I'm saying is this blackout poo poo and who it affects when on their subjective and objective timelines is drat strange. Jake and Dirk's didn't happen on Derse, which is part of the game (which gets blacked out by Roxy)
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Jun 26, 2012 13:33
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pumpinglemma posted:Alternatively, Lil' Cal punched him. The panel is at least a little ambiguous. Calling it now: Cue Ball + Lil' Call (uu's Juju) = Lord English Cue Ball + Rabbit doll (UU's Juju) = ?????? (whatever Calliope's nickname would be)
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Jun 26, 2012 13:47
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Oh man, that time again huh? Where we frantically try to jump through hoops to find ways for the characters to survive only for Hussie to go completely in a different direction. However, my take aways at any rate: Roxy: Not dead. Maybe a carapace will throw themselves in front of the miles, but she'll survive and somehow get in. Jane: She'll survive somehow. Time travel, lifey thing, maybe even the Condesce herself will intervene to get her to a quest bed or something.
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Jun 26, 2012 13:54
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Maybe this is a good point in the story for us to learn that the B1 kids are all Already Here, just waiting to hide in the veil of Roxy's void. Which potentially leads to some hella awkward Smooches of Life.
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Jun 26, 2012 14:03
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Scale Model Giant posted:Maybe this is a good point in the story for us to learn that the B1 kids are all Already Here, just waiting to hide in the veil of Roxy's void. Which potentially leads to some hella awkward Smooches of Life. Given that they have two time travelers (Dave and Gamzee) this is actually the case even without any plot twists.
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Jun 26, 2012 14:27
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Okay, had some time to digest that. Some notes: - uu expects UU to read all this, presumably, so it's reasonable to expect he expects her to wake up at least once more. Perhaps he's waiting until after they get into the medium to initiate his murder plans? He's certainly waiting on something. - We knew, since Jake was named after Lord English, that somehow, paradoxically, Lord English would be named after Jake. Now we might have a clue. uu hopes to "teach him a lesson" for stealing his style. Perhaps the lesson will be stealing Jake's style/name. - Hussie dropping some weapons-grade hints that Jake's going to get decapitated at some point. Latest one is the page set aside so that the only text is "his skull". Suaimhneas posted:I'm also not convinced that the panels following Roxy's blackout are what's actually happening, or just what uu is imagining. It's hard to say. Yeah, hard to say. There's two reasons that these KOs / deaths would happen after the blackout, rather than immediately before: a) Because uu is imagining the results b) Because if UU and uu were capable of seeing these deaths, Calliope would have been inclined to warn them. Nate RFB posted:Oh man, that time again huh? Where we frantically try to jump through hoops to find ways for the characters to survive only for Hussie to go completely in a different direction. Well, let's see... - Dirk should be fine. He just got stunned for a moment by his Dreamself getting knocked out. He's got that window to Roxy's house, he should be able to get over there and help her. - Roxy...assuming she actually got stabbed, has several options. She might get kiss-revived by Dirk or one of the carapaces, in which case, she'd wake up out in the void, which would be weird, but that wouldn't get her house/planet into the session. She got gut-stabbed, not heart-stabbed, so it's possible she'll survive this. Maybe the carapaces get her into the Medium (they're good at operating skaia-tech) and then once inside, she can get some help. - Jake is knocked out, but still has time to wake up and get inside the session at the last moment. He should be okay, and he might get some more exposition while he sleeps. And there's still that lotus set to open soon that might provide some sort of help. - Jane will probably do some sort of lifey-thing, and save Dirk's dreamself to boot. Her two ways off Derse have been cut off, though, so she's still pretty screwed. Color Printer posted:Jake and Dirk's didn't happen on Derse, which is part of the game (which gets blacked out by Roxy) Except Roxy is still on Earth, and she got blacked out. Completely off-the-wall theory: - uu is heavily stressing that Dirk's Lil' Cal will relate in some way to the original Lil' Cal, presumably other than the split. - This Lil' Cal is different, with "dead eyes". - The "alive" Lil' Cal shares the same kind of laugh with uu, who will probably be Lord English. - Areana said that the B2-kids would be the first to temporarily defeat Lord English, though they wouldn't destroy him. What if...they somehow manage to imprison him in Lil' Cal. That would make the eyes "alive" and then it could be somehow sent back to the A2/B1 sessions and become the one Gamzee hated into being. That would make it one continuous Lil' Cal and explain why they share a laugh and explain why the combining of the cue ball and Cal summoned Lord English.
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Jun 26, 2012 14:29
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You just don't jack a man's swagger.
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Jun 26, 2012 14:30
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Remember, the Condense seems to have control over GCAT using brown-blood powers and seems to want to get these kids in the game. I think GCAT will be pulling out all the stops to get those entry items broken and save Roxy. Also, as an aside, there's a question of how the Condense entered the incipisphere. Did she manage to get herself to one of the kids' house before they were pulled into the incipisphere? ... I'm just trying to not think about the grim possibility of a dead Lalonde. 
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Jun 26, 2012 14:32
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Also: loving laughed at uu using his tablet stylus with his fist, like a three-year-old with a crayon. No wonder he's so poo poo at drawing.
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Jun 26, 2012 14:36
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Color Printer posted:the game (which gets blacked out by Roxy) That's UU's interpretation, mind you. The game blacks out when Roxy enters (or seems about to enter). UU was theorizing that Roxy sobering up is what's doing it, but we didn't really see what was going on more clearly than she did. We can't even be entirely certain whether the panels in which Roxy got hit by the miles were meant to represent truth or uu's expectations.
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Jun 26, 2012 14:37
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Lord of Laughton posted:Also, as an aside, there's a question of how the Condense entered the incipisphere. Did she manage to get herself to one of the kids' house before they were pulled into the incipisphere? She has control of the frog temple, which contains transportalizers to prospit and derse. Presumably that's what she was after when she killed Grandma Jade Granted, the transportalizers at Jake's point on Earth's timeline transport to the current half-destroyed Derse, but since when has temporal shenanigans stopped anything?
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Jun 26, 2012 14:41
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Norton Ghostride posted:You just don't jack a man's swagger. This would make a fantastic title text for an avatar, just sayin.
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Jun 26, 2012 14:42
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Nate RFB posted:Jane: She'll survive somehow. Time travel, lifey thing, maybe even the Condesce herself will intervene to get her to a quest bed or something. Sigh. AS USUAL Jane proves to be an inferior clone of John. Anyhow, I don't think it has been mentioned yet: quote:uu: EITHER HE IS LIKE. I think this counts as foreshadowing for the "Lord English is and always has been intended as an audience surrogate" theory, even though on the surface it may just be calling attention to uu's status as a fandom stand-in.
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Jun 26, 2012 14:43
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The issue isn't that the kids are dead (since we all know they have extra lives and such). The issue is that they're all down at the same time at a point where they're all supposed to be getting each other into the Medium. And even if Shrodinger's Roxy isn't dead, one of her lathe-related devices definitely got destroyed, so that screws up the who entry sequence too.
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Jun 26, 2012 14:44
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Evil Mastermind posted:And even if Shrodinger's Roxy isn't dead, one of her lathe-related devices definitely got destroyed, so that screws up the who entry sequence too. Actually, no - look at the panel again: the miles burst in next to the totem lathe without wrecking it.
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Jun 26, 2012 14:50
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Cleretic posted:I'm not so sure about Jane's chances. I mean she's the Maid of Life, so that will probably come into play somehow, but here's nobody to corpse-kiss her until it's too late. Jake's back on Earth, and Dirk's dreamself is out cold. Common gamzee start the makeout party.
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Jun 26, 2012 15:05
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Li'l Seb noooooooo  Bye bye Li'l Sebastian Miss you in the saddest fashion Bye bye Li'l Sebastian You're 5,000 candles in the wind 
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Jun 26, 2012 15:14
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Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:Actually, no - look at the panel again: the miles burst in next to the totem lathe without wrecking it. I thought one of the other devices got wrecked? It's hard to tell.
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Jun 26, 2012 15:16
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Filthy Haiku posted:Rabbit doll (UU's Juju) This actually could very well be true, as Li'l Seb was also described as "dear, sweet, precious, sweet, sweet" during Myststuck, just like the Juju. And then uu takes the bunny out of the box.
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Jun 26, 2012 15:27
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 Well, that was certainly disturbing. UU, you are one sick puppy.
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Jun 26, 2012 15:27
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Forty pages, goddamn. The way he keeps referring to Calliope as "Cal" makes me think that his own name will turn out to start with the letters "Lil." A person who knows both those names essentially has control over them, sort of like a password? Or else it'll start with "Seb" and the whole rabbit thing will turn out to be true. Two versions of the rabbit - the original and the version that Rose fixed up - were sent back to earth on meteors, with Rose and Jade respectively. The B2 versions of those are both in Jane's house, dressed as a wizard and as Indiana Jones. So it's conceivable that some iteration of the rabbit (perhaps due to hitherto-unrevealed time chicanery) is a juju. Let's get a tally, here: Jane's real self got stabbed by Red Miles on Derse, then the viewport blacked out. Jake's real self was knocked out by the impact after Lil Seb dropped him in the ruins (which, at least, is where he needs to be). Roxy's real self was staring down some Red Miles when the viewport blacked out. Dirk was about to be hit by some rubble on Derse when the viewport blacked out. Dirk's real self fell unconscious at the same time. Something white is floating around when is ordering Seb to get Jake out of there; notably, this is when the viewports focusing on Jane and on Dirk are starting to black out. I'm going to guess that this is Roxy's dreamself, floating in to save the day somehow. Or it could be GCat. Why would a dragon interfere with Lil Seb? I think dragons are like dogs and they just sort of do things arbitrarily. But the Condesce can control dragons. (Dragons are also psychic. This is going to be important.) uu interprets Jake's Lord English iconography as referring to him personally, when as far as I could tell that could refer to any cherub. There's definitely a robot part on the desk next to uu. A leg?
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Jun 26, 2012 15:48
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Bongo Bill posted:There's definitely a robot part on the desk next to uu. A leg? It kind of reminds me of this. Or the random wires in the background of the meteor lab.
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Jun 26, 2012 16:00
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Evil Mastermind posted:I thought one of the other devices got wrecked? It's hard to tell. Conceivably might have been, but not on-screen. The debris raining down is just bits of roof/ceiling. If you go back a page, you'll see that that strand of Miles entered Roxy's house well away from the other two devices; the alchemiter is on a different part of the roof, and the cruxtruder (which isn't crucial to entry anyway as soon as you have one dowel) is over in the observatory. The strand that attacked Roxy was already shown approaching her roof back here, I just realized. Hamiltonian Bicycle fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jun 26, 2012 |
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Jun 26, 2012 16:03
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Evil Mastermind posted:The issue isn't that the kids are dead (since we all know they have extra lives and such). Jane's entry was kind of weird too. I think this may not really be much of an issue.
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Jun 26, 2012 16:04
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Y'know, this makes me wonder why uu was so sure it was the Lil Cal in Dirk's waking room that was destined to be lost/destroyed, and not the one in his Derse room. I suppose the simple answer is that uu can tell the waking Cal was empty, and the Dream Cal... is not. Hmmm.
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Jun 26, 2012 16:23
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Probably from watching it get lost later with the viewport.
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Jun 26, 2012 17:16
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Should probably note that neither Cal nor Seb get destroyed. Cal especially, who, instead of being dropped in the fire like uu said he would, got dropped in water. Pretty sure this ain't the last we see of that puppet and robot bunny.
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Jun 26, 2012 17:20
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God I hope Jane dies for real. I'd almost be willing to give up Roxy's life, as awesome as she is, if Jane and Jake get killed off. Christ I haven't hated two characters as much since Sollux. What awful loving characters the both of them are.
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Jun 26, 2012 17:25
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Occupation posted:God I hope Jane dies for real. With your avatar for a sec I thought I was in the Breaking Bad thread, and your first sentence really confused me.
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Jun 26, 2012 17:41
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Pyralspite used disconcerting ogle. It's super effective! You gain the Jake skull.
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Jun 26, 2012 17:42
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YF-23 posted:Should probably note that neither Cal nor Seb get destroyed. Cal especially, who, instead of being dropped in the fire like uu said he would, got dropped in water. Pretty sure this ain't the last we see of that puppet and robot bunny. Yeah, I suppose this is the point I wanted to make. If uu knew ahead of time Dirk was going to drop the puppet, why even attempt to persuade him to throw it into the fire? Little Babby English stretching his legs with Alpha timelines? And does his knowledge of active/inactive juju amount to something more substantial than "I am pretty sure I saw that one get destroyed so it's probably an inauthentic copy"? There are at least three Cals. Feltduds Cal is incoming with Gamzee, et al, while the recently sunk Pajama Cal was the "soulless" copy that arrived with baby Dirk -- and it is in fact a copy since it was a result of the Scratch's meteor bifurcation. Pajama Cal #2 is hanging out in Dirk's Derse room. So either one Cal is a "true" juju and the other two will be destroyed, two of the Cals are actually the same but at different points on a timeloop and one will be destroyed, or all three Cals are actually the same object on a single timeloop and none will be destroyed. (Since this is Homestuck we might as well assume the third option is the correct one.)
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Jun 26, 2012 17:49
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Occupation posted:God I hope Jane dies for real. I'd almost be willing to give up Roxy's life, as awesome as she is, if Jane and Jake get killed off.
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Jun 26, 2012 18:00
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Sometimes I am really weirded out by fandom. Not even Homestuck specifically, but case in loving point right above. "I don't like this character, so they should die!" What the gently caress? That is kind of hosed up to me. I've never really liked Rose but wanting her get killed off would be disturbingly childish. Jack Noir, guilty of mass genocide? Cool as poo poo. Jane, fairly boring? Go get stabbed, thanks. Stuff is shithive maggots, I tell you.
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Jun 26, 2012 18:33
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Nate RFB posted:Sometimes I am really weirded out by fandom. Not even Homestuck specifically, but case in loving point right above. "I don't like this character, so they should die!" What the gently caress? That is kind of hosed up to me. I've never really liked Rose but wanting her get killed off would be disturbingly childish.
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Jun 26, 2012 18:42
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Starmaker posted:Well... we know the dreamself won't be there anymore. Maybe after a corpsesmooch they aren't really considered a dreamself anymore. They're just... the self. Those lights in Jane's world could always just mean that they have both their lives. Honestly I didn't really like John at all for the first two acts or so and Jade was dull until her characterisation shift in Act Five. I think people are forgetting how long it took the original kids to become the relatively fleshy characters that they are. In comparison I'd say the beta kids have been shaped up a lot faster and are for the most part interesting already with the exception of Jane.
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Jun 26, 2012 18:43
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Nate RFB posted:Sometimes I am really weirded out by fandom. Not even Homestuck specifically, but case in loving point right above. "I don't like this character, so they should die!" What the gently caress? That is kind of hosed up to me. I've never really liked Rose but wanting her get killed off would be disturbingly childish. While I don't really want Jane to die for good, I do wish her and Jake didn't have the whole Egbertian "do the dumbest thing possible when advised not to repeatedly by characters who aren't stone cold retarded" deal going on. It's the main reason John became my least favorite B1 kid, and as dirty as I feel for kinda-sorta agreeing with uu, I'd like to see their death/KO-ing force some sense into them at least. Segata Sanshiro fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jun 26, 2012 |
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