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Soulcleaver posted:What about in the first volume when he's a total dick to people who help him out, like Puck and Vargas? Granted, the beginning of the series was pretty rough and Miura hadn't got into his groove yet, so a few slightly out-of-character moments are to be expected. You and Deathy have fallen into the trap of thinking pre-eclipse Guts and post-eclipse Guts are the same. We can assume these flashbacks take place after he ran off from Gambino's mercs and before he met the hawks. Before he became the black swordsman Guts was rude loner but he wasn't the level of rear end in a top hat he was during the black swordsman arcs (though having all your friends sacrificed and your girlfriend raped, causing your unborn child to become corrupted and miscarriage by your trusted leader, which causes every night of the rest of his life to be haunted by the undead kinda justifies why he's such an rear end in a top hat). Even then Guts was capable of showing kindness, and even being gentle, after his entire life got destroyed.
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Jun 26, 2012 22:05
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Even during the Black Swordsman arc Guts still showed some empathy when his guard slipped. The whole persona he adopted was basically a defense mechanism against the massive trauma he experienced.
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Jun 26, 2012 22:34
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Guts is like a wild animal. He's not mean but he's not nice. If people don't bother him, he doesn't bother them.
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Jun 26, 2012 23:18
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Yeah did you miss when that little girl tells Guts she won't forgive him and he walks away crying?
Rakugoon fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Jun 27, 2012 |
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Jun 27, 2012 00:20
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Trying to characterise Guts as one thing is ridiculous because (amazingly enough for manga) he acts as inconsistently as a real human being. Well, apart from always trying to stab things when he gets angry.
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Jun 27, 2012 00:54
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Guts is a nice guy who has had a hosed up life and has violence as a means to clear his head. His actions as of late show him trying to deliberately calm himself and "mature" to what is needed of him. He can't go berserk (haw) because he needs to protect people. He's given up being the venging blade who distracts himself from the horror of existence by just losing himself in blood rage so that he can instead protect those close to him; and despite trying to distance himself from other people so he won't be hurt again, he finds himself gaining new allies since it's hard to get through life truly alone. And frankly, he seems happier for it.
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Jun 27, 2012 02:39
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Rakugoon posted:Yeah did you miss when that little girl tells Guts she won't forgive him and he walks away crying? 
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Jun 27, 2012 03:11
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Zorak posted:Guts is a nice guy who has had a hosed up life and has violence as a means to clear his head. His actions as of late show him trying to deliberately calm himself and "mature" to what is needed of him. He can't go berserk (haw) because he needs to protect people. He's given up being the venging blade who distracts himself from the horror of existence by just losing himself in blood rage so that he can instead protect those close to him; and despite trying to distance himself from other people so he won't be hurt again, he finds himself gaining new allies since it's hard to get through life truly alone. And frankly, he seems happier for it. Yeah... this is why I don't really like discussions on whether Guts is "good" or "evil"; trying to shove him in a little box of one of those ridiculous Dungeons & Dragons alignments is not only an exercise in futility but sort of being disingenuous to what Muira has done, i.e. created that rare literary figure who is in many ways completely scary and reprehensible but is also sympathetic.
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Jun 27, 2012 03:47
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Mr. Deathy posted:I don't think any cuts are made for Miura's input at all, I don't think he's very involved. They're just for time, or director's choice I guess. Hmm, yeah those are annoying edits. I can't believe that they took out such major parts. I'll still watch and probably enjoy the movie but I only wish they had more time. Hopefully the pacing in this one is better due to the extra 20 minutes.
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Jun 27, 2012 05:50
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Finally got around to reading the rest(I stopped for a while around the first time Guts sees the heart of the Sea God. That flower 
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Jun 27, 2012 21:12
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Azzents posted:You and Deathy have fallen into the trap of thinking pre-eclipse Guts and post-eclipse Guts are the same. And like all real humans, Guts has both good and evil within him. He's been a complete dick who cares about nothing but his bloody revenge against Griffith and the apostles, and he's also been a kind-hearted soldier who loves Casca and fights for a better place in the rotten world in which he resides. He's an amazingly complex and fascinating character and a testament to Mirua's genius.
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Jun 28, 2012 04:04
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Don't think much is going to be learned about Guts through this flashback, it was already well known he had a hosed up childhood(if u can call it that). Hopefully these flashback chapters serve for a time skip like Zorak said a few pages back.
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Jun 28, 2012 06:38
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His post eclipse dickishness is him trying to push people away so they don't get ripped apart by demons by merely being near him. That was the entire point of the priest and little girl sequence.
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Jun 28, 2012 07:09
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temple posted:That was after using her as a human shield There was also that one time he used a little boy as bait for a swarm of demon children wasps to help him get revenge for them killing his family. Guts has a tender side, just doesn't really seem all that kind when seen from hiding behind closed doors.
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Jun 28, 2012 07:56
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I enjoyed the arcs that focused on an apostle that Guts had to beat, while also exploring the vagaries that turned that person to the God Hand. It makes the monsters human. I especially liked the arc with the wasp-girl, because I felt that was very well developed and tragic. The games did a pretty good job of continuing that trend. I'm looking forward to learning more about some of the apostles rocking out in Griffith's army.
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Jun 28, 2012 20:23
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Yeah the Misty Valley Arc was a really good bridge in Guts character arc, it represents a shift away from everything being focused on him. Misty Valley reminds me a lot of the second chapter from the initial Black Swordsman arc, where we learn about the Apostle through someone who knew them before their transformation. It seems like Miura came a long way between The Baron and the Elves of Misty Valley, because the execution is really well done. I'm not certain we'll get a chapter like that again, but it's possible. The relationship Guts has with his other band mates is pretty firmly established, so the question is will developing an Apostle's background happen instead of moving the plot forward? It seems like we've been getting small doses of that through looking at the new Band of the Hawk.
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Jun 28, 2012 21:40
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Lotish posted:
Niko's story in the Dreamcast game is loving depressing as poo poo.
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Jun 29, 2012 03:21
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Reading some of you guys discussing Guts and his past motivations and then realizing that I couldn't even remember some of the scenes you guys were referencing (and then realizing I didn't even really remember why they were going to Elf Island or whatever it's called anyway), I just randomly started my first ever reread of the series. It's been so long that a lot of it is fresh stuff in the sense that I'd totally forgotten it. Like I didn't even vaguely remember the hilarious existence of Wyald, so many random things in the story I'd totally forgotten because the series has gone on for so long... Life lessons with Kentaro Miura! 
Punkin Spunkin fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Jun 30, 2012 |
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Jun 30, 2012 08:40
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Wyald is such a great example of the 
Soulcleaver fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Jul 2, 2012 |
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Jul 1, 2012 05:42
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That's pretty much the opposite of the idea of the banality of evil.
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Jul 1, 2012 17:24
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I thought that the idea was that evil is rarely beautiful and brilliant and charismatic the way it is in fiction. The most common form of evil is not grand megalomaniacal dictators but the small-minded, pathetic little cowards like the old man Wyald really is. The only difference is that he suddenly gained the demonic power to act out his horrific natural inclinations. Otherwise, he was no different from the other brainless thugs in the Black Dogs he was leading. But maybe I'm misunderstanding the concept.
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Jul 1, 2012 18:37
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Banality of evil is closer to the Holy See. They are just doing their job, torturing and maiming people. Nothing personal.
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Jul 1, 2012 21:40
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The banality of evil is just the average joe working as a concentration camp guard. Not with hate or any strong emotions. Just his job, you know.
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Jul 1, 2012 22:28
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My mistake. I thought the "banality" in the phrase referred to trite evil and not to passive evil. Wyald is still a fascinating character for the reasons I stated, but I got the terminology wrong.
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Jul 2, 2012 02:21
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Zorak posted:The banality of evil is just the average joe working as a concentration camp guard. Not with hate or any strong emotions. Just his job, you know. Well if I'd never loved before now... my bucket list is now complete. As if the morning after can yet be seen whilst holding firm to the night. This glimmering analogy of vigilance against flight and the very opposite of the regal message of Sir Griffith, whose very antagonisms justify crimes against humanity in the name of a higher status quo has sent my very heart aflutter.
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Jul 6, 2012 08:25
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Ummmm, Andy Griffith still outlived Don Knotts in his superhuman mortality. Where's the eclipse? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 7, 2012 13:13
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I'm a bit late to seeing the first Golden Age movie, but I thought they did a great job, espcially with the action. They even made Casca badass in reality instead of just name. That bit where she uses the crossbow to force Guts to defend instead of attack was just great. Actually, that whole action sequence was awesome. I haven't watched anime for awhile, and the action really blew me away. Has all anime action/animation progressed so much? I'm fine with the movies not including everything from the TV show, just like the TV show didn't include everything from the manga. Those things already exist, it's stupid to be so bound to one interpretation of the story.
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Jul 7, 2012 14:39
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Metal Pink Babble posted:Well if I'd never loved before now... my bucket list is now complete. As if the morning after can yet be seen whilst holding firm to the night. This glimmering analogy of vigilance against flight and the very opposite of the regal message of Sir Griffith, whose very antagonisms justify crimes against humanity in the name of a higher status quo has sent my very heart aflutter. Metal Pink Babble posted:Ummmm, Andy Griffith still outlived Don Knotts in his superhuman mortality. Where's the eclipse? What the gently caress are you talking about?
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Jul 7, 2012 16:53
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WickedIcon posted:What the gently caress are you talking about?
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Jul 13, 2012 08:49
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wow...
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Jul 13, 2012 09:37
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What the gently caress did I just watch. McEclipse?
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Jul 13, 2012 11:32
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Soulcleaver posted:I think it was this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmEwxy4Yl_M Wow the third golden age movie looks really great!!
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Jul 13, 2012 13:02
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That certainly is another take on being "branded".
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Jul 13, 2012 16:34
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Soulcleaver posted:I think it was this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmEwxy4Yl_M What the gently caress? Another one of those renegade angel/korean news reports that make no drat sense. Probably was about a new Mcdonalds opening in Tokyo.
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Jul 13, 2012 17:02
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Soulcleaver posted:I think it was this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmEwxy4Yl_M  what in the holy gently caress is this
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Jul 13, 2012 21:00
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To help forget that, here's a much better Berserk related youtube video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avYiHUkas18 Its an old one, but my favorite AMV ever.
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Jul 13, 2012 23:05
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Soulcleaver posted:I think it was this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmEwxy4Yl_M Huh. Well that was something.
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Jul 14, 2012 06:17
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Raimondi posted:To help forget that, here's a much better Berserk related youtube video. Thanks to this video I got to watching the outtakes again. I forgot how hilarious they are. 
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Jul 14, 2012 06:27
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330 is out at Spectrum scans. edit : Has it occurred to anyone else that if they took the two animes and smooshed them together, we'd have something really good, and an incoherent and unfaithful mess? becrumbac fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Jul 14, 2012 |
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Jul 14, 2012 11:35
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Well so much for the flashback theory. No more issues this summer. What a bunch of pointless filler.
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Jul 14, 2012 11:56
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