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XyloJW posted:I love Cosmos, and I know it's what everyone associates most with Sagan, but it's very dense. For anyone who got discouraged by Cosmos, I'd heartily recommend giving Demon-Haunted World a shot. It's much more focused and much more personal. Oddly enough, Cosmos is getting a reboot in 2013. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/arts/television/fox-plans-new-cosmos-with-seth-macfarlane-as-a-producer.html?_r=3&src=tp
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Jun 26, 2012 21:18
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Mo_Steel posted:Neil DeGrasse Tyson seems to deal with similar stuff (can't remember if this was posted here or not): I like NDT. I did kind of prefer Sagan's kinder handling of ignorance; Tyson sometimes kind of teases and ridicules the ridiculous, whereas Sagan would approach everything with a certain level of respect. Of course, Sagan's dead now, so Tyson will suffice, and I'm always happy when I see friends pass his stuff along. VVVVV What?? Sagan literally wrote the book on anti-intellectualism. He wrote several books on it! XyloJW fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jun 26, 2012 |
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Jun 26, 2012 21:20
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Sagan never had to deal with the obscene amount of anti-intellectualism within every facet of American life that NDT sees occurring every day. I don't blame him for a second for having no patience for that poo poo.
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Jun 26, 2012 21:46
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XyloJW posted:I like NDT. I did kind of prefer Sagan's kinder handling of ignorance; Tyson sometimes kind of teases and ridicules the ridiculous, whereas Sagan would approach everything with a certain level of respect. Tyson is a bit rougher, but there's a great clip of him going off on Richard Dawkins about the responsibility they have to society as educators that feels right in line with Sagan. And while he may have written the book on anti-intellectualism, it feels like Sagan would've been greatly saddened by the amount of it that's around today. Maybe it was as bad when he was alive, but I feel like the wilfull propagation of ignorance wasn't anywhere near as strong as it is now. Maybe the echo chamber of the Internet makes its presence better known, though?
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Jun 26, 2012 21:55
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^^ I don't dislike Dawkins, but I think Sagan was a much more elegant writer/speaker. He was able to get the same point across without some of the condescension that seems to spark up with people like Dawkins or Hitchens. I think it makes Sagan's persuasive voice much more effective.XyloJW posted:Everyone who is interested in why people buy into this, and how they're not (usually) evil people needs to read Carl Sagan's last book, "Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark." The Varieties of Scientific Experience takes a similar approach as Demon Haunted World but focuses more on religion and Sagan's own feelings on the spirituality of the universe through the lens of scientific understanding. If you like Sagan it's a must-read. McKracken fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Jun 26, 2012 |
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Jun 26, 2012 21:57
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Yea, Tyson has a low tolerance for just proud ignorance, and if you go 'well man we both have our opinions, I think the universe is 6000 years old and you disagree...' he'll call you a moron, but he also doesn't tolerate guys like Dawkins being just malicious pricks.
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Jun 26, 2012 21:57
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XyloJW posted:
I doubt Sagan could have imagined the amount of willful and malicious ignorance we see all around us in the year 2012. I mean think about it, 1996 feels like an entirely different world compared to now. Obviously there was bad poo poo back then too but at least America hadn't fully gone off the rails yet.
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Jun 26, 2012 22:00
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I doubt Sagan could have imagined the amount of willful and malicious ignorance we see all around us in the year 2012. I mean think about it, 1996 feels like an entirely different world compared to now. Obviously there was bad poo poo back then too but at least America hadn't fully gone off the rails yet. I'd love some sort of proof for that statement. Hell, as we prove time and again, the origin for these letters are usually in the 90's! You even say that 1996 feels like it wasn't as bad as it is now. I'm sorry you feel more bitter today than you did in 1996, but that's not really evidence of much. Sagan wrote Cosmos at a time when Mutually Assured Destruction was considered a Good Thing, and he grew up with televised witch hunts for people with different economic views. In Demon-Haunted World, he tells the tale of a sheriff in Oregon who gets sentenced to life in prison, because he convinced himself he was possessed by Satan. Mankind has always had an anti-intellectual bent, and it's not like if he was alive today he'd be scoffing and giving a "Can you believe this stupid question?" look when someone asked him if he believed in UFO's. I remember the first time I saw Tyson was I think the early 2000's. I remember thinking he was charismatic enough that he'd probably end up becoming famous (I was right!). But the thing that stuck with me was that in this documentary about Pluto (back when it was still a planet) was that he was laughing at children who insisted it was a planet. He smug-faced and said "Prove it!" It was funny, and I laughed, but I also realized  ing a kid maybe isn't the most effective way to make a point.McKracken posted:^^ I don't dislike Dawkins, but I think Sagan was a much more elegant writer/speaker. He was able to get the same point across without some of the condescension that seems to spark up with people like Dawkins or Hitchens. I think it makes Sagan's persuasive voice much more effective.
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Jun 26, 2012 22:26
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I doubt Sagan could have imagined the amount of willful and malicious ignorance we see all around us in the year 2012. I mean think about it, 1996 feels like an entirely different world compared to now. Obviously there was bad poo poo back then too but at least America hadn't fully gone off the rails yet. Of course it did, we generally tend to romanticize the past.
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Jun 26, 2012 22:29
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They don't make anti-intellectuals like they used to. 
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Jun 26, 2012 22:36
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XyloJW posted:I'd love some sort of proof for that statement. Hell, as we prove time and again, the origin for these letters are usually in the 90's! Exhibit B: Fox News did not exist prior to 1996.
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Jun 26, 2012 22:40
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Loving Life Partner posted:The weird component of that, is that they don't seem to give a gently caress about REAL lovely things that are happening. I'm almost positive that lovely people in government and lovely tabloid media deliberately put out scare-mongering articles in order to distract people from the terrible things that are actually happening. The last few days in the UK have pretty much proven this.
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Jun 26, 2012 23:13
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I clean out the spam filter at work and there's always ridiculous things in there.quote:Obama: The Most Arrogant Man in the World It goes on and on and on.. WE GET IT.
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Jun 27, 2012 18:31
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Hahaha. That has to be a troll. It lays out the premise "Obama asks you to donate to his campaign for Christmas!" and then each time it repeats that, it gets more and more outlandish. "Obama demands all Americans give him money, whether they want to or not!" "Obama dictates that you steal to give him money! From your grandmothers!!!" I like the "Our good friend Alex Jones" part too.
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Jun 27, 2012 18:35
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God, the idea is kind of silly but it's not that big of deal. It's not unheard of for people to ask for people to donate to causes in their name in lieu of gifts. I'm not sure how many would ask for you to donate to Obama's re-election in lieu of gifts, but still. You might as well just rewrite that to be "Obama demands you give him all your paycheck so he can become Supreme Overlord of America instead of feeding your family", all because he asks individuals to donate to his re-election. Or maybe we should just rewrite it as "Mitt Romney thinks all of America's wealth belongs to him. And he demands that you hand over your money so he can swim in a giant pool of hundred dollar bills."
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Jun 27, 2012 18:48
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quote:Obama: The Most Arrogant Man in the World I don't always push traditionally Republican policies, but when I do...
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Jun 28, 2012 04:05
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This is the latest issue of the Boston Police Patrolman's Association's (bi-monthly?) magazine: http://bppa.org/PAX/PAX%202012%20MayJune.pdf Check out page A9. If this were just written as part of some crazy forwarded email, I'd just laugh it off and move on, but it's the BPPA's own magazine, and it's their own editor writing this.
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Jun 28, 2012 16:02
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Get ready, the deluge of PPACA ruling rants is going to flood into this thread and your facebook walls and email inboxes soon. Something like this: But from your relatives or friends and with somehow more frothing rage and indignation.
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Jun 28, 2012 16:06
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RadioPassive posted:This is the latest issue of the Boston Police Patrolman's Association's (bi-monthly?) magazine: Yeah that dude is kind of crazy.
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Jun 28, 2012 16:20
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Mo_Steel posted:Get ready, the deluge of PPACA ruling rants is going to flood into this thread and your facebook walls and email inboxes soon. Something like this: Obama didn't think of it as a tax, that's just how the SCOTUS declared it constitutional. Not like Palin or anyone who would support her statement would care.
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Jun 28, 2012 16:53
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The best ones are when for the past few days people were all talking about their faith in the court to declare it unconstitutional and now they're raving about activist judges. They're only activist judges if you disagree with them.
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Jun 28, 2012 17:24
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I never get emails like this because my family is thankfully mostly sane. However, there's this guy who has almost the same name as me and occasionally his stuff goes to me. Today I learned that he's horrible. Apologies if this one has been posted before, I didn't see it in the last few pages, the picture is what really makes it for me. It's a shame I couldn't capture the randomly changing fonts and text size.  I Am the Democratic, Republican Liberal-Progressive's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Conservative, Tax-Paying, American Veteran, Gun Owning Biker. That's me! I am a Master Mason. I work hard and long hours with my hands to earn a living. I believe in God and the freedom of religion, but I don't push it on others.. I ride Harley Davidson Motorcycles, and drive American-made cars, and I believe in American products and buy them whenever I can. I believe the money I make belongs to me and not some liberal governmental functionary, Democratic or Republican, that wants to share it with others who don't work! I'm in touch with my feelings and I like it that way! I think owning a gun doesn't make you a killer; it makes you a smart American. I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, and does not entitle you to anything. Get over it! I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac or any other item, you should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option. I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God when and where they want to. My heroes are Malcolm Forbes, Bill Gates, John Wayne, Babe Ruth, Roy Rogers, and Willie G. Davidson, who makes the awesome Harley Davidson Motorcycles. I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor. I know wrestling is fake and I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it. I've never owned a slave, nor was I a slave. I haven't burned any witches or been persecuted by the Turks, and neither have you! I believe if you don't like the way things are here, go back to where you came from and change your own country! This is AMERICA ...We like it the way it is and more so the way it was...so stop trying to change it to look like Russia or China, or some other socialist country! If you were born here and don't like it...you are free to move to any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, starting with the White House, the seat of our biggest problems. I want to know which church is it, exactly, where the Reverend Jesse Jackson preaches, where he gets his money, and why he is always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one? I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, regardless of what color you are, but not just because you happen to ride a bike. And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driver's license. I think it's good.... And I'm proud that 'God' is written on my money.. I think if you are too stupid to know how a ballot works, I don't want you deciding who should be running the most powerful nation in the world for the next four years. I dislike those people standing in the intersections trying to sell me stuff or trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause....Get a job and do your part to support yourself and your family! I believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes two parents.... I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think! I believe the American flag should be the only one allowed in AMERICA ! If this makes me a BAD American, then yes, I'm a BAD American. If you are a BAD American too, please forward this to everyone you know... We want our country back! My Country.....I hope this offends all illegal aliens. My great, great, great, great grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in the Revolution & the War of 1812. My great, great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Mexican American War. My great, great grandfather watched as his friends & brothers died in the Civil War. My great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Spanish-American War. My grandfather watched as his friends died in WW I. My father watched as his friends died in WW II. I watched as my friends died in Vietnam , Panama & Desert Storm. My son watched & bled as his friends died in Afghanistan and Iraq . None of them died for the Mexican or any other Flag. Everyone died for the American flag. Texas high school students raised a Mexican flag on a school flag pole, other students took it down. Guess who was expelled...the students who took it down. California high school students were sent home on Cinco de Mayo, because they wore T-shirts with the American flag printed on them. Enough is enough This message needs to be viewed by every American; and every American needs to stand up for America . We've bent over to appease the America-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand. I'm standing up because the hundreds of thousands who died fighting in wars for this country, and for the American flag. If you agree, stand up with me and forward to everyone in your address book!! And shame on anyone who tries to make this a racist message. AMERICANS, stop giving away Your RIGHTS! Let me make this clear! THIS IS MY COUNTRY! This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration! YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, welcome to come legally: 1. Get a sponsor ! 2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past ! 3. Live by OUR rules ! 4. Get a job ! 5. Pay YOUR Taxes ! 6. No Social Security until you have earned it and Paid for it ! 7. NOW find a place to lay your head ! If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM ! We've gone so far the other way. . . bent over backwards not to offend anyone. Only AMERICANS seems to care when American Citizens are being offended ! WAKE UP America ! ! ! If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp ! Made in the U S A & PROUD OF IT!!!!!
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Jun 28, 2012 18:08
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No Real Pattern posted:I never get emails like this because my family is thankfully mostly sane. However, there's this guy who has almost the same name as me and occasionally his stuff goes to me. Today I learned that he's horrible. Apologies if this one has been posted before, I didn't see it in the last few pages, the picture is what really makes it for me. Did a reverse image search and Google posted:Best guess for this image: gay manly man
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Jun 28, 2012 19:06
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I don't have to ask which side his family fought on in the Civil War. And who the gently caress takes pride in the Spanish American War?
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Jun 28, 2012 19:36
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No Real Pattern posted:
OK, I get that big gay motorcycle dude is ~*~a rebel~*~ but how are any of those listed gripes "a Republican's worst nightmare"? At all?
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Jun 28, 2012 19:45
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No Real Pattern posted:
Large parts of this sound like an advertisement for Harley Davidson Motorcycles aimed at stereotypical conservatives. I wonder if they ever made the stereotypical liberal version? "My heroes are the reverend Jessie Jackson, Steve Jobs, Sarah Jessica Parker, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, John Stewart, and Willie G. Davidson, who makes the awesome Harley Davidson Motorcycles."
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Jun 28, 2012 19:55
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No Real Pattern posted:poo poo my dad says FFS. My father literally talks like this. Goddammit. He wears denim with denim too. Edminster posted:
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Jun 28, 2012 21:54
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The concept of a worker-owned factory is deeply repulsive to me, as an AMERICAN.
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Jun 28, 2012 21:55
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No Real Pattern posted:I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, and does not entitle you to quote:This is AMERICA ...We like it the way it is and more so the way it was...so stop trying to quote:And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driver's license. I think it's good....  quote:I dislike those people standing in the intersections trying to sell me stuff or trying to guilt me quote:My great, great, great, great grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in the Revolution
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Jun 28, 2012 22:28
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myron cope posted:I see lots of firefighters out collecting donations like that. Is he anti-firefighter?? I like the "stop trying to sell me stuff, get a job!"  \ This is my job 
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Jun 28, 2012 22:39
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You know how in the beginning of Office Space where Ron Livingston's friend sees the guy selling roses on the highway? That is every white conservative male ever.
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Jun 28, 2012 22:55
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myron cope posted:
I would imagine that this guy is fairly unique in that he can trace his entire family lineage back to the revolutionary war, and knows for a fact that every one of them saw combat. But I guess that's the mark of a True American. I can trace my family back to ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT Irish criminals and potato farmers!  Also, it's pretty ironic that Harley-Davidson motorcycles are heralded as AMERICAN AS gently caress  , when they're generally regarded as poorly designed and manufactured, and Harley riders are some of the most ignorant and unskilled motorcycle riders you can imagine. See the "overheard stupid motorcycle poo poo" thread in CA for more.Did you know that 90% of Harley's ever produced are still on the road? The other 10% made it back to the owner's garage  vvv It's all anecdotal. My uncle had a 70s harley of some kind for years, and bitched about it constantly. He got a BMW motorcycle 5 years ago, hasn't complained since. red19fire fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jun 29, 2012 |
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Jun 28, 2012 23:15
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red19fire posted:I would imagine that this guy is fairly unique in that he can trace his entire family lineage back to the revolutionary war, and knows for a fact that every one of them saw combat. But I guess that's the mark of a True American. That's actually a bit of a myth. Harleys are as reliable as any other v-twin cruiser out there.
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Jun 28, 2012 23:19
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Armyman25 posted:That's actually a bit of a myth. Harleys are as reliable as any other v-twin cruiser out there. Either woooooossssshhhhhhhhh, or I don't get your joke.
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Jun 28, 2012 23:37
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downout posted:Either woooooossssshhhhhhhhh, or I don't get your joke. It's not a joke, Harleys are not bad motorcycles.
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Jun 28, 2012 23:39
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I'm tempted to waste an hour writing a line-by-line response to that, but basically the guy hates charity, taxes (like the kind that pay for roads for Harleys to drive on), other languages, the free market (Burger King is apparently not free to serve customers in languages other than English), and admitting to the reality that some people are subjected to prejudice in the U.S. He's convinced that America is *his* and everyone who disagrees with him should just leave instead of, you know, debating and voting and stuff. He also seems to think America is perfect just the way it is, which it probably is if you're a straight white guy with solid employment. Oh, and since the American flag is the only one he wants allowed, I assume he wants to abolish state flags. Also utterly evidence-free stories about flag shenanigans, with too few details to properly verify them.
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Jun 29, 2012 01:00
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He can take my state's flag when he pulls it from my cold dead hands.
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Jun 29, 2012 01:06
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Armyman25 posted:He can take my state's flag when he pulls it from my cold dead hands. Well there goes my first time thinking that Iowa is kinda awesome.
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Jun 29, 2012 01:10
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That flag looks mighty French, there, pardner. 
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Jun 29, 2012 01:13
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The Dark One posted:That flag looks mighty French, there, pardner. The capitol is Des Moines, which is French for "The Moines." jojoinnit posted:Well there goes my first time thinking that Iowa is kinda awesome. We have gay marriage too. Iowa, more progressive than California.
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Jun 29, 2012 01:16
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