NEO Scavenger: You kicked my dogman

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > NEO Scavenger: You kicked my dogman

Dipes: Oct 24, 2003

This game is totally radical. I love the concept, love the depth. It needs funding and to move to a better framework / engine. The java poo poo or whatever he's using is not going to cut it in the long run.

# ? May 5, 2012 04:50

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 07:07

Dr_Amazing: Apr 15, 2006; It's a long story

The demo seems pretty cool. My biggest complaint is that I'm never sure how well I'm doing or if certain things are helping. I have no idea if a knife, clever, rifle butt, or crowbar is a better weapon. When it rains am I doing better by sleeping in a city tile, or with a campfire?

# ? May 8, 2012 03:14

Xik: Mar 10, 2011; Dinosaur Gum

Dr_Amazing posted:

The demo seems pretty cool. My biggest complaint is that I'm never sure how well I'm doing or if certain things are helping. I have no idea if a knife, clever, rifle butt, or crowbar is a better weapon.

I always avoided combat but if given the choice I would have a crowbar in my hand. It takes up too much space in your pack, but can be used as both a weapon and to increase item quantity/quality chance when salvaging (in exchange for safety).

Dr_Amazing posted:

When it rains am I doing better by sleeping in a city tile, or with a campfire?

I don't think it matters in the build the demo is at, it's way behind the beta. The current beta build has player camps with viewable stats.

Small news update:

BBG has been working on the finale. Read the full thing here.

quote:

Today was spent entirely on plot finale writing [..] once that final scenario is mapped-out, events which lead up to it should be easier to write.

quote:

Outside the main plot, there's room for random encounters that players can stumble upon.

# ? May 8, 2012 05:56

Myoclonic Jerk: Nov 10, 2008; Cool it a minute, babe, let me finish playing with my fake gun.

Xik posted:

I always avoided combat but if given the choice I would have a crowbar in my hand. It takes up too much space in your pack, but can be used as both a weapon and to increase item quantity/quality chance when salvaging (in exchange for safety).

I also prefer to avoid combat (unless I have a rifle), but I'd much rather be able to carry three backpacks (one on the back, two in the hands) full of survival goodies than have a crowbar (which IIRC doesn't fit in a backpack). I am a hoarder.

# ? May 8, 2012 12:55

Xik: Mar 10, 2011; Dinosaur Gum

News Update

Finished implementing the side quest I've been working on, and began testing the various paths through it.
Started implementing a cursed item - the cursed item produces conditions which worsen over time.
Started adding the ability to make weapons apply conditions when used, to both the attacker and target.
Found a bug in the item degrade code
Fixed the encounter system so that certain outcomes could apply the death condition. "I think there will inevitably be player choices that should logically result in death".

# ? May 10, 2012 09:26

Xik: Mar 10, 2011; Dinosaur Gum

Another news update.

I'm not going to trim this one, I think it's worth reading.

quote:

While doing some finale revision today, some questions arose about how to handle "winning" vs. "losing" the game. Specifically, in the final game encounter, should every player be allowed to "win?" Regardless of the skills the player chose, and the items they carry, should there be some way to deal with the final encounter?

In my first draft, it was possible to "lose" the game before even reaching the end. If the player didn't choose the right skills at the game's start, or they didn't get lucky with the right loot earlier in the game, they walk into a death trap.

Cameron pointed this out to me, and it got me thinking about ways to deal with it. I could leave it like that, but as Cameron pointed out, that'd be a really low blow since the player couldn't know in advance. It'd piss me off if that happened to me.

It's an interesting question. It seems like any player should at least have a chance. I'm considering making it work that way, and maybe structuring it such that being prepared guarantees victory, and being unprepared only grants a chance at victory. This way, the prepared/clever player is rewarded, but the unprepared have a chance (albeit a poor one).

I also explored the idea of negative options in the final encounter: options that sound like a good idea, but turn out bad. I had quite a few of these in the original draft of the cryo encounter, and those were poorly received (were more frustrating than fun). However, at the end of the game, it probably wouldn't be fun if everything resulted in a "win." The player should have agency to either win or lose, based on their judgement.

There's also the idea of peppering clues throughout the game to inform the player about the endgame before they get there. I'll probably do this at least to some degree. It'll be tricky to build, but probably worth it.

I don't think this is solved yet, but since it was an interesting debate, I wanted to share. If anyone has seen this done well somewhere, I'd be interested to hear about it in the forums!

I don't like the idea of having to have certain items or skills to "win". I know what would happen in that case. There will eventually be a very particular build that will be the "correct" build and once that is figured out, there really would be no point in trying/using other abilities if you can't actually win with them.

Every build should be able to win in some way. Increased difficulty/imperfect endings is fine -even preferred- that way once you beat the game with one build you can try with another. Comparing to other roguelikes, all the major ones I've played, you've been able to win with any build. You can go view the scoreboard and actually see that. Some are significantly harder then others, but that's fine, they at least all have a chance.

Losing based on player choices is fine IMO. If the player fucks up, they should be punished, but they should be given a chance to make the gently caress up themselves and not have it predetermined/be punished for the skills they picked at character creation.

Anyone have thoughts?

# ? May 11, 2012 11:19

beef express: Sep 7, 2005; The highest technique is to have no technique.

I think it's possible to make the game somewhat reactive to the player's skill choices. Fallout New Vegas did this well by offering a range of possible applications of each skill in order to solve situations in a different way, some directly supported by mechanics (physically Lockpicking a hard lock to get the jump on a difficult enemy, for example) or some based on stats (passing a Speech check and talking someone down) and then letting the player decide where to focus. It gave a good illusion of freedom while forcing you to remain within the limits of your character spec.

The problem is this freedom of choice interferes with the concept of a one-size-fits-all plotline, and takes a lot of case by case statchecks. What I'd like to see is NEO Scavenger bias itself to doling out encounters that players are (or should be) appropriate to the skills they've chosen, sort of like a random seed associated with the character that sets the script for possible victory conditions, like a Civ game. So some goals could be object-based, stat-based or whatever as the (semi-randomly determined) plot demands.

It'd be absolutely tough to get right, but thinking back Space Rangers 2 had something along those lines in their little text adventures. It was always possible to finish the text adventures with the tools you were given but you could bypass elements of them by having high enough stats in the metagame.

And I agree about player choice. It's important to have the agency to get it horribly wrong.

# ? May 11, 2012 14:01

BlueBottleGames: Mar 16, 2012; NEO Scavenger Dev

@Xik - yeah, I definitely don't want there to be a dominant strategy either. Having an unattractive fall-back solution is probably necessary to avoid a brick wall, given the range of build options and loadouts. And ideally, there will be other approaches for certain builds. I doubt I'll be able to find plausible solutions for every skill, but at least a range of options will give some choice.

@beef express - I think the way I've built the encounter system will support what you describe. The tricky part will be creating the content for it. I probably don't have the resources to make a large number of optional encounters. I can probably manage a few (I'd like to), but most encounters will have to be squeezed pretty hard for re-use.

Normally, I look to pen & paper games to see how it should work, since that's sort of what I'm trying to recreate. In a typical paper RPG campaign, the GM has some finale in mind, and the players get creative trying to solve it. The GM usually has at least one solution in mind (if for no other reason than to ensure it can be solved at all), and players can use that with predictable results.

However, player creativity can often lead to unpredictable outcomes, and this isn't possible in a scripted crpg. Someone has to write the encounter to anticipate an option for a player to see it. Some games have emergent strategies, which is cool, but the encounter system that I've designed requires me to prescribe outcomes for each input.

I'm just sort of thinking out loud here, so I'm not sure I have an answer yet. This is good feedback, though. It's got me thinking about alternatives. And it's good to hear that there's consensus so far on the topic of letting players choose to mess up!

Also, good points earlier about combat, and it's relative voting priority. I may have to pull an executive decision and fix it sooner than its time. Even as I do plot stuff, combat inevitably comes up in some situations, so I may not be able to avoid it for long.

Handling it via encounter-like screens seems to be the prevailing opinion, and would offer the greatest player latitude. The trouble is finding a way to offer that latitude without having to write every permutation of creature/environment/attack-type/range/time-of-day/surprise/morale/etc. It seems like it should really be a system and not a hand-written thing.

The scavenging system was an extension of the encounter system, such that inputs changed the probabilities of an outcome, rather than deterministically changing the outcome. Perhaps combat could be similar? It'd probably require many more stats than the 3 scavenge ones, but might operate on similar principles. It'd also allow for dialogue to transition into combat, and possibly back again. Something for me to think about, anyway.

As always, thanks for the feedback!

# ? May 11, 2012 21:21

beef express: Sep 7, 2005; The highest technique is to have no technique.

Yeah, I'm not sure what I mean either, but pure theory-craftingwise its definitely not a solely stat-based solution. I see the text-based encounters as an opportunity to wrest control from the player and force them to react based on their character archetype or whichever you want the plot to go, maybe to their detriment, based on how well they built their skills. The chosen stats define both an initial possibility of success and act as bonuses to specific moments. The game is unforgiving as crap as standard and I love this. What it needs to do (and I am not an expert so this is probably wishful thinking in coding terms

is note increasing skill in a particular skill and reward that with situation-specific options.

# ? May 11, 2012 22:01

BlondRobin: May 29, 2005; Sssh! Be vewy vewy quiet. It's wabbit season.

Depending on your ability and interest in creating content, I don't think having one 'approach' to winning the game is a wrong thing. Far from it, I think one solid approach is fine, such that any person, with any skill set, cannot win the game.

...on their own.

Ultimately, an ending is supposed to be a climax, but it's also the thing that unites and completes all the events to date. That means it should everything (major) the player's done, and make use of it.

Furthermore, success and failure can be more than binary, especially on a micro level. Nothing says just because you don't have Skill X you have to dead-end; you can make it an aggregate of things, where if you don't have Skill X it hurts you and makes the rest harder.

Make the player reliant on the game; no one comes out of the tube ready to solve all the world's problems. That way, the end isn't just a bunch of skill checks, but the reward for all the player does from minute zero.

There should be options surrounding the final quest that help with its execution. Write sidequests where the player can attack them laterally, or get help with things they may not be the best at. Maybe a non-combat player can help a surviving group of national guard recover their armory, earning a favor they can call in to break through the enemy's forces outside their final base or something.

Sure, it means content; on the other hand, content is good. Furthermore, this is what the overwhelming majority of content in your game should be. Focus your game around the ending, don't just make it the last thing you do to make it a 'complete' game. Write your sidequests to point at and modify the ending, not just places you go for a bit of atmosphere and loot.

[/critic]

BlondRobin fucked around with this message at 23:27 on May 11, 2012

# ? May 11, 2012 23:25

Xik: Mar 10, 2011; Dinosaur Gum

A news post worth mentioning.

You will no longer know the exact outcome of a skill/item choice in encounters. There is now a chance to get different outcomes with the same input.

quote:

it was becoming necessary to allow encounters to branch based on probability. Instead of one input yielding one output, some encounters were better served if one input could yield one of many outputs, each with their own probability.

From the news item the day before:

quote:

(E.g. using item X results in outcome Y 50% of the time, and Z the other 50%)

# ? May 16, 2012 04:05

Thompsons: Aug 28, 2008; Ask me about onklunk extraction.

I finally buckled and bought beta access and, holy poo poo, the difference in the amount of stuff you find in the beta and demo versions is like night and day. Now I can actually find backpacks and clothes instead of just stumbling around for three minutes before getting killed by a looter.

# ? May 17, 2012 04:28

Xik: Mar 10, 2011; Dinosaur Gum

Build Update: :frogsiren:

Beta Build: 0.939b

Full news item is on the site.

New Chase Feature added. (See below for details)
Athletics no longer grants 2 extra moves (instead, it grants the extra run reserve points above)
Pop-ups over creatures show less info now, unless player has used "Spy" on the creature.
Creature sleeping icon now only show when creature is visible.
Fixed a bug which caused 0% condition items not to degrade when a turn was ended without leaving the hex.
Fixed a bug in the way the game tracked hours slept.
Added code to alert player to cases when player simply had trouble falling asleep vs. waking up normally.
Fixed a condition chaining bug which caused subsequent condition to be hidden if current one was. (This should help with cholera and food poisoning warnings.)

Chase Feature

Run: All players now have the ability to run for a limited time. By default, players get 1 run move. Players with Athletic get 3. Run is activated by pressing the red button. Once active (button stays lit while active), moves are at half their normal cost. Each move deducts the half move cost from normal movement points, plus one run reserve point. When the reserve hits 0, run deactivates, and it's back to normal movement. Running will not be possible again until reserve points are at least restored to 1. Run reserve points can be restored by ending a turn with leftover moves. Essentially, this is a burst of quick speed for emergencies. And like all things, it has a cost. While running, the player leaves more tracks than normal and can't read others' tracks as well.

Hide: Clicking this button hides the player in the current hex, as best as possible. It costs one action to use, but it will automatically choose the best campsite in this hex for hiding, and apply an additional concealment bonus on top of that camp's base value. Players with the Hiding skill get an added bonus. Hide stays active until the player moves or attacks.

Hide Tracks: Clicking this button will attempt to cover tracks in this hex. It costs one action to use, but it can often help break the trail for pursuers out of line of sight (particularly if used at the right time). Players with the tracking skill reduce the tracks more than the normal amount. This can be used on any set of tracks, not just the player's.

Spy: Clicking this button changes the cursor to an eye, which can then be clicked on a target creature to gain valuable recon info on them.

# ? May 22, 2012 22:59

Myoclonic Jerk: Nov 10, 2008; Cool it a minute, babe, let me finish playing with my fake gun.

Xik posted:

Build Update:

Beta Build: 0.939b

Chase Feature

Spy: Clicking this button changes the cursor to an eye, which can then be clicked on a target creature to gain valuable recon info on them.

It looks like these two features add a ton of depth to the game. I can't wait to get home and mess about with them!

Again, thanks Xik for keeping this thread alive.

# ? May 23, 2012 21:32

Xik: Mar 10, 2011; Dinosaur Gum

Build Update: :frogsiren:

Demo Build: 0.916d
Beta Build: 0.940b

Full news item is on the site.

Creatures now have individual tracking thresholds for following scents.
Changed hexes to have individually appropriate default campsites, each with different strengths/weaknesses.
Reduced effectiveness of hiding: default hiding bonus is half of previous bonus, skilled bonus is 75% of previous. Note that new default campsites somewhat offset this, since some hexes automatically have better cover now (e.g. forest, urban).
Rain now accelerates the rate at which tracks degrade.
Fixed bug where clicking on a hex with the eye cursor caused player to move. Now just cancels spy.
Hid action buttons when moves left reaches 0.
Added log messages and floaties when hiding, hiding tracks, and spying.
Fixed bug where sleeping creatures would show "sees player" in pop-ups.
Changed spy/eye cursor to be centered on pupil, rather than corner of eye.
Made hide button read "unhide" while hiding.
Run reserve move counter now hides when run button hides.
Run button now disappears when no run moves left.
Pockets! (Only one per slot for now.)

There has got to be a better name for those little icons then "floaties".

# ? May 25, 2012 05:33

PokeWarVeteran: Apr 3, 2012

Just wanted to say that, while I'm too poor for the beta version (gib monys plz), I'm still following the development and an eagerly waiting for the demo to be updated so I can try out all this new stuff.

# ? May 25, 2012 06:39

Xik: Mar 10, 2011; Dinosaur Gum

There has been a bunch of news items about the plot work which is taking place which I haven't posted because well, "I'm working on plot" isn't very exciting news. In the latest news item though, there was a screenshot of the encounter editor which looks pretty cool:

quote:

Colored lines represent possible connections (flowing in the tapered direction), which depend on both player input items and conditions the player has. Some nodes deposit conditions on the player (e.g. "accepted Hatter mission"), meaning that although there are lines connecting two nodes, it may not be possible to traverse the line based on conditions accumulated in previous nodes.

The ones at the top left are what's currently being worked on and that big jumble in the bottom right is the start of the game, where it's shorter but with many choices.

# ? May 27, 2012 02:29

Xik: Mar 10, 2011; Dinosaur Gum

The latest news post is worth reporting here.

quote:

Brainstormed 22 new encounters, some for use in the DMC and the rest as random encounters for the wilderness.

Bold mine. Looks like work within the DMC is underway and we are getting encounters both in there and randomly out in the wilderness.

# ? Jun 6, 2012 03:44

Myoclonic Jerk: Nov 10, 2008; Cool it a minute, babe, let me finish playing with my fake gun.

I've noticed that when you choose "Insomniac" in this patch, you get no "Sleep" button. In previous builds, you could sleep as an insomniac, but not for long or very productively.
My poor dude is all the way in the red on sleep, but still has no option to even try. (Just like me today IRL). Is this a bug or the new way Insomnia is supposed to work?

# ? Jun 6, 2012 21:23

Xik: Mar 10, 2011; Dinosaur Gum

BBG has decided to start working on the combat system. No firm details yet but he has thrown around some ideas about what he wants to do.

quote:

I've started brainstorming a possible combat system that uses a pseudo-encounter screen (like scavenging). I'm trying to incorporate tools both the player and AI can use to control the engagement, including range, type of attack, terrain, and opportunities for retreat, surrender, and bluffing

An expansion of the wound system will likely come with the combat system too.

quote:

Stuff more specific than "crippled" or "injured," and ways to treat those wounds would go a long way towards making combat less annoying and more strategic.

# ? Jun 7, 2012 02:34

Xik: Mar 10, 2011; Dinosaur Gum

Early preview of the combat system has been posted and it's looking all sorts of awesome. :allears:

quote:

The overall idea is there, however. Options for the player are shown at the left, and like any encounter, choosing one affects the outcome. In this case, only four options are shown (Advance, Fall Back, Charge!, and Run Away!). In the future, we'd like to have additional options here for sneaking, hiding, taking cover, as well as a raft of potential attack maneuvers.

The available options will be limited based on the current battleground, conditions on the player/target, range, skills, and equipment. In some cases, rare special moves will only show up a fraction of the time, even under ideal conditions.

Dan is now on holiday until next week so we can't expect any more updates about this until at least late next week probably.

Xik fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Jun 13, 2012

# ? Jun 13, 2012 03:54

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Dipes posted:

This game is totally radical. I love the concept, love the depth. It needs funding and to move to a better framework / engine. The java poo poo or whatever he's using is not going to cut it in the long run.

And a bit more polish for the overall interface, the basic concept is really neat despite the problems.

# ? Jun 13, 2012 03:57

beef express: Sep 7, 2005; The highest technique is to have no technique.

drat, that combat framework looks awesome, and I'm really liking the direction the game's taking with regards to encounters. Can't wait for the update.

# ? Jun 13, 2012 15:33

dvorak: Sep 11, 2003; WARNING: Temporal rift detected!

Wow, this looks pretty cool. I'm definitely going to keep an eye on it. Always interested in indie games with this broad a vision.

# ? Jun 15, 2012 05:22

Xik: Mar 10, 2011; Dinosaur Gum

An update was posted with a bit more information on concealment in the new battle system.

quote:

Since creatures and/or the player can enter combat unseen, there needs to be some way to handle what the player and AI do in those situations. So far, I've made it such that moving closer/further from the target is impossible if it's unseen. One can still seek cover, though, or use a turn to try and spot the unseen creature.

quote:

There are still details to work out, however. Does the creature remain visible forever after being spotted, or can it disappear again? Does anything happening in the battle affect visibility to creatures outside the battle hex, wandering the map? Can a creature remain concealed to one opponent after another opponent spots him?

The new combat system is certainly looking like it might me quite complex, a far cry from the current combat system. Getting quite excited about it.

# ? Jun 21, 2012 06:39

dvorak: Sep 11, 2003; WARNING: Temporal rift detected!

I ended up purchasing the game based on how cool the demo was and was, definitely very cool.

I noticed a bug/exploit in the beta just as I was starting my first game. I came to a hex with two stacked recipe notes on the ground, and if I just kept picking them up and setting them down, I would learn more and more random recipes.

# ? Jun 24, 2012 08:48

Zaodai: May 23, 2009; Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.

dvorak posted:

I ended up purchasing the game based on how cool the demo was and was, definitely very cool.

I noticed a bug/exploit in the beta just as I was starting my first game. I came to a hex with two stacked recipe notes on the ground, and if I just kept picking them up and setting them down, I would learn more and more random recipes.

It's a bug that has been reported about 50 billion times. It is currently being left in as basically a beta tool because it lets people get recipes quickly.

# ? Jun 24, 2012 08:49

Xik: Mar 10, 2011; Dinosaur Gum

BBG has been working on the AI system. Some pretty good stuff.

See in the message window:

code:

Looter advances towards Player
Player attacks Looter
Player Injured Looter with a crowbar
Looter runs from Player

"Desperate Retreat" has been added to the system.

quote:

You can also see one of the new moves that went in today: "desperate retreat." It's the blue icon of the dude running with his hands wildly in the air. Normally, a retreat requires the combatant be out of attack range, and it automatically leaves the battle. However, it's not always available.

The "desperate retreat" comes up more often, and can be used at almost any range. The down side is that it has a higher chance of falling (especially in battlegrounds with worse than "level" ratings), and making the combatant vulnerable. It also has a chance of failing, meaning the player could really be in trouble if they don't get away, and instead trip, losing a turn and becoming vulnerable. However, the "desperate retreat" also moves the player 1-2 range bands away, so not all is lost.

Alternate attack types are planned for tomorrow, overall this combat system is really looking good. Can't wait to give it a try.

# ? Jun 27, 2012 13:14

PROTOSTORM!!!: Oct 24, 2010

I can not loving wait to use Botany in every combat encounter.

# ? Jun 27, 2012 13:55

Xik: Mar 10, 2011; Dinosaur Gum

Another news post about the combat system.

Dem Moves

Check out those sweat, sweat moves.

quote:

A huge chunk of these are basic movement and retreat options. Brownish ones are sneaky, the ones with walls on them are cover, and the doorways are retreat. The green target is a basic attack, and the purple eye is searching for an unseen enemy.

Random Number Generator

Some AI behavior has been improved and a skewed RNG has been implemented for actions that need it.

The "low" RNG (blue) will favor low choice but still has an option to choose other options and surprise the player. Same thing with "med" (green) and "high' (red).

Examples:

High favored RNG:

quote:

With these in the game, I can let the AI choose from a list of battle moves that have been sorted by priority. This way, the AI usually chooses higher priority moves, but sometimes gets crazy and does something unexpected.

Medium favored RNG:

quote:

I've adjusted attacks to use the medium RNG when calculating damage. This way, weapons should cause more consistent wounds, closer to the middle of it's range.

# ? Jun 28, 2012 15:45

Xik: Mar 10, 2011; Dinosaur Gum

~~Stop, drop and roll~~ Roll, get up, tackle, dodge and parry have been added:

The log from a battle test:

code:

Player charges at Dogman.
Dogman charges at Player.

Player tackles Dogman.
Dogman attacks Player...and hits!

Player gets up.

Player attacks Dogman...and hits!
Dogman gets up.

Player runs from Dogman.
Dogman attacks Player...and hits!

Player tries to retreat from Dogman...but can't get away!
Dogman advances towards Player.

Player desperately tries to retreat from Dogman...but can't get away!
Dogman tackles Player.

Dogman gets up.

Dogman attacks Player...and hits!

(at this point, Player becomes crippled, and can no longer "run." He can only "fall back" 1 space at a time.)

Player gets up.
Dogman tries to tackle Player...but misses!

Player falls back from Dogman.
Dogman gets up.

Player tries to retreat from Dogman...but can't get away!
Dogman advances towards Player.

Player dodges Dogman's attack.
Dogman tries to tackle Player...but misses!

Player falls back from Dogman.
Dogman gets up.

Player desperately tries to retreat from Dogman...but can't get away!
Dogman advances towards Player.

Player falls back from Dogman.
Dogman tackles Player.

Dogman gets up.

Dogman attacks Player...and hits!
Player rolls from Dogman's attack.

Dogman attacks Player...and hits!
Player gets up.

Dogman attacks Player...and hits!
Player was killed by Dogman.

So awesome :allears:

# ? Jun 29, 2012 03:09

Seashell Salesman: Aug 4, 2005; Holy wow! That "Literally A Person" sure is a cool and good poster. He's smart and witty and he smells like a pure mountain stream. I posted in his thread and I got a FANCY NEW AVATAR!!!!

These combat moves are scratching my sperg itch, that's for sure.

# ? Jun 29, 2012 03:41

Jarf: Jun 25, 2006; PLATINUM

Xik posted:

code:

Player charges at Dogman.
Dogman charges at Player.

...

Player was killed by Dogman.

So awesome :allears:

Wow, this is looking fantastic! I could picture the battle in my head the whole time whilst reading through that combat log. I freakin' love this game.

# ? Jun 29, 2012 12:05

Thompsons: Aug 28, 2008; Ask me about onklunk extraction.

Has there been any talk about being able to like click on a recipe and have it automatically combine the items for you? That'd be a really nice feature to have.

Edit: Oh, it already does this. I'm dumb :downs:

Thompsons fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jun 30, 2012

# ? Jun 29, 2012 13:17

BlueBottleGames: Mar 16, 2012; NEO Scavenger Dev

Hey Guys! I'm glad to hear the combat sounds good so far. Hopefully, I can get something stable and playable together soon, and let everyone into the sandbox!

@Thompsons - Do you mean clicking "Use" on a recipe scrap and have it work like clicking the quick recipe buttons? If so, that sounds like a great idea, and I'm not sure how I didn't think of that before. I wonder if I could replace the quick buttons entirely? Recipe scraps are much smaller, so I could fit more scraps on-screen than the buttons. The down side is scraps all look the same. Hmm. Even so, clicking a scrap makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

@PROTOSTORM!!! - Lol, I'll have to add a botany move in there, just because

@Myoclonic Jerk - Actually, the sleep button moved to the camp screen. It was moved partially to prevent mis-clicks when in main map mode (i.e. sleep is a dangerous thing to mis-click when trying to end turn/scavenge), and partially to bring attention to the camp stats before sleeping. However, I wonder if I should move a copy of the button back to the main map screen, and when the user clicks it, it goes to camp, where the sleep button actually sleeps?

As always, thanks to Xik for keeping the torch alive here. This thread has long been a good sounding board for game updates, and it's much appreciated!

# ? Jun 29, 2012 15:26

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

BlueBottleGames posted:

@PROTOSTORM!!! - Lol, I'll have to add a botany move in there, just because

Make it like using Botany in the opening encounter where you smear poisonous berries on your hands.

However since most bandits probably aren't going to know anything about botany, it's only effective if you shout "POISON FINGERS!!!!" while doing it.

# ? Jun 29, 2012 18:01

Xik: Mar 10, 2011; Dinosaur Gum

MOVES!

New moves are great. You should love new moves.

Melee surge/blast away, kick fallen creature, and pull down.

quote:

The first move is actually two moves in one. With a melee weapon, it's called "melee surge." It's an attack that, if successful, hits the target at least once, maybe twice, and gives them the "winded" condition. No matter what, however, it gives the attacker "winded" as well. It's handy if the target is "vulnerable," or otherwise easy to hit, as it roughs them up and knocks them out of commission for a turn.

If a ranged weapon is being used, there is a similar move called "blast away." It's a spray and pray style move where the player fires his ranged weapon a few times, trying to pin the target down. If successful, the target is "suppressed," takes cover, and cannot move or attack for a turn. There's a smaller than normal chance to hit with each shot, as well.

Kick fallen creature :swoon:

quote:

The "kick" move can only be used when in melee range, standing, and when the target is "fallen." If successful, this move keeps the target down, does damage, and gives the target "winded." I'm excited to see if gangs of raiders use this.

I too am excited to see if I die horribly to a gang of raiders....

And the last one "pull down", for when you are on the ground and want to bring the enemy down with you.

quote:

Finally, the "pull down" move is sometimes available when a combatant is "fallen" and in melee range with a standing target. If successful, it knocks down the target, and does damage. "Fallen" enemies are easy targets, but not easy opponents!

Nearly all the basic moves are said to be done now, skill/ability moves are next.

quote:

Skills like melee, athletic, and trapping can provide occasional special moves, and I'll probably give some creatures skills to grant them those moves (e.g. dogmen may get strong and athletic, while raiders get melee and ranged).

Can't wait to get my hands on a new build...

# ? Jun 30, 2012 04:01

coyo7e: Aug 23, 2007; by zen death robot

Why "kick fallen creature," rather than some sort of called strike or coup de grace for any weapon on a prone foe?

# ? Jul 1, 2012 05:10

Thompsons: Aug 28, 2008; Ask me about onklunk extraction.

Having finally put in more time and doing the silver urn quest, I really really can't wait for more plot stuff to be finished. Doing area encounters where you can actually die by screwing around too much and facing weird non-corporeal entities is rad and I'd love to see how the supernatural angle lends itself to further enemy types and areas.

# ? Jul 2, 2012 00:14

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 07:07

Myoclonic Jerk: Nov 10, 2008; Cool it a minute, babe, let me finish playing with my fake gun.

BlueBottleGames posted:

@Myoclonic Jerk - Actually, the sleep button moved to the camp screen.

D'oh! I figured it would be something obvious like that.

The new combat system looks like it will far exceed my expectations - I was expecting a very minimalistic approach - hit, dodge, block, run away. To have it incorporate stances, different kinds of retreats, and such absolutely floors me. Quite an effort for a one man team.

My only request is that combat continue to be a highly dangerous tactic of last resort. It shouldn't be possible for a player to become good enough at combat for it to be a valid first choice upon encounters. It's fine if the player gets desperate and decides to attack a scavenger for their food, clothing, or lighter, but that's what it should be - an act of desperation.
I don't think I want to RP a bandit and I'd hate to see players game the system into becoming just another hack and slash RPG. Just my two cents.

# ? Jul 6, 2012 18:59

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > NEO Scavenger: You kicked my dogman

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