|
I think n3rdal3rt's point was that you can't really "resist" a wrist-lock without running the risk that your wrist will break. Wrist-locks in particular have a very very small window of opportunity in which the victim can escape/resist before the wrist is broken. A wrist-lock used in combat is quick - you get the structure in place and you snap the wrist. If you were to spar that, the second you correctly apply one, you are almost guaranteed to break your opponent's wrist. If you spar wrist-locks, but you slowly apply the pressure, the other party has plenty of time to get out - which is unrealistic in terms of "combat application of wrist-locks" and defeats the whole purpose. Thoguh posted:Akido and arts like it aren't about training for a fight. They are about training to respond to an attack or subdue someone. They aren't supposed to be useful for a UFC fighter. They are supposed to be useful to a bouncer/policeman. This is why people criticize aikido and similar "too deadly to be sparred with" systems - people tend to fight how they train. If you can't realistically spar your art, you will have trouble applying it in a fight. People who are successful in using wrist-locks and whatnot are usually able to rely on gap-closing techniques from other arts to get them into position for the lock.
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2012 19:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 15:07 |
|
|
entris posted:This is why people criticize aikido and similar "too deadly to be sparred with" systems - people tend to fight how they train. If you can't realistically spar your art, you will have trouble applying it in a fight. Which gets back to what someone was saying on the last page about it originating as a supplemental art for people who already had a background with a base MA. Modern Akido training skips that part so most practitioners end up basically just practicing dance moves. The vast majority of moved in Akido could actually be trained at a much higher intensity level, but that requires skill and trust from both Tori and Uke and a high pain tolerance. Akido isn't "too deadly to be sparred with" It just hurts. Thoguh fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Jun 29, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2012 19:54
|
|
|
Fontoyn posted:If you get a kimura on me standing up I really clearly need to never ever train again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhTqKePonjg 
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2012 20:00
|
|
|
the statement stands
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2012 20:06
|
|
|
Can't argue that the techniques in the video were done well because they weren't. I used it because it shows the 17 base techniques we start with. Consider the video a point of reference not technical instruction. I believe there were comments wayyyyyyy back about Judo guys putting an arm down to brace themselves so an opponent can't score a point on a throw and how that was a really good way to break an arm. That is a situation where uke at some point has to accept he's getting thrown and go with it to reduce chance of injury. I would think that anyone who trains anything does it in a way to minimize injury to themselves and training partners, you make things as safe as possible. As mentioned above practicing wrist and shoulder locks at 100% can be a little dangerous sometimes there isn't a huge gap between everything is ok and being out for a while healing up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2012 20:13
|
|
|
Fontoyn posted:If you get a kimura on me standing up I really clearly need to never ever train again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge34hs-4PKk
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2012 20:16
|
|
|
Thoguh posted:Akido and arts like it aren't about training for a fight. They are about training to respond to an attack or subdue someone. They aren't supposed to be useful for a UFC fighter. They are supposed to be useful to a bouncer/policeman. Guilty fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jun 29, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2012 20:26
|
|
|
I was talking specifically to mcnerd you
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2012 20:30
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2FajIE2gHI
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2012 20:43
|
|
|
Guilty posted:out of the three occupations listed, one of them is synonymous with 'athlete'. And your argument was basically 'Aikido wasn't meant for fights. It was meant for fights.' No, I said that the type of techniques practiced in Akido and similar arts are beneficial for somebody in a role where they need a range of options to subdue people, or deal with random assholes throwing a punch. Not a competition. There's nothing inherently wrong with the techniques in Akido. There is a lot inherently wrong with how 99.9999% of people train those techniques. Thoguh fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jun 29, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2012 21:11
|
|
|
I kind of started this thing and I apologize, these arguments never go anywhere productive. Aikido is just as practical as other martial art because we live in a world with police and guns. Better to have an active hobby you enjoy than come home and zone out watching the TV.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2012 21:36
|
|
|
Speaking of police, and to talk about loving anything other than what people's opinion on the efficacy of Aikido is; (Can't we just all agree to laugh at ninjitsu?) What kind of training do police officers generally receive as far as self defense, takedowns and control of suspects go? It seems like cops are usually pretty proficient at keeping someone on the ground, but it occurs to me that it might be because there's always more of them than you. And because they yell a lot. I've said it before, but my jits (I guess mostly the wrestling I've learned from jits), has really helped me at work. I've relied on the same principles in real life as I do when fighting on the mat, so I feel like it translates pretty well to something of practical use, and not just a fun hobby and sport.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2012 22:00
|
|
|
Still one of my favorite scenes in MMA history
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2012 22:39
|
|
|
Bohemian Nights posted:Speaking of police, and to talk about loving anything other than what people's opinion on the efficacy of Aikido is; (Can't we just all agree to laugh at ninjitsu?) What kind of training do police officers generally receive as far as self defense, takedowns and control of suspects go? It seems like cops are usually pretty proficient at keeping someone on the ground, but it occurs to me that it might be because there's always more of them than you. And because they yell a lot. There are several cops at my BJJ gym. They are very good at it, and when one of their cop friends comes along, he usually knows how to do a couple of takedowns and armlock style submissions already. They also really really don't need any training in the whole "keep your whole weight on the opponent as much as possible" thing. I'm not saying all cops are like that, just the ones I've trained with. Speaking of the "being heavy" thing... it's loving killing me. I weigh 125kg or so, and my usual training partner weighs 130-135. When he mounts or gets into side control, I want to tap because he's just so loving heavy it hurts. I know I do the same thing, but he seems to last much longer under me than I can under him. I just need to harden the gently caress up and turn slightly on my side, right?
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2012 23:41
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:Speaking of the "being heavy" thing... it's loving killing me. I weigh 125kg or so, and my usual training partner weighs 130-135. When he mounts or gets into side control, I want to tap because he's just so loving heavy it hurts. I know I do the same thing, but he seems to last much longer under me than I can under him. I just need to harden the gently caress up and turn slightly on my side, right? Getting a stronger core and better conditioning will help a lot with that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2012 23:50
|
|
|
Wow, two pages of Aikido talk! A few thoughts after reading all that. First, I realize that the number one most practical application of attending Aikido classes is earning Aikido belts. My primary reason for attending is I always wanted to take Aikido, and I find any sort of Martial Arts to be much more interesting than just going to the gym and picking heavy things up. I do lift, and the impromptu wrestling matches I get in after class are excellent motivators to lift more, but being good at Aikido is, in my mind, a perfectly reasonable goal in and of itself. I have no illusions that in two years, I will don my hakama and stride into the Octagon, and from there, UFC history! However, there are plenty of practical aspects to it. I haven't been in many real life fights (a few in junior high and high school, before Zero Tolerance) and two bar scuffles, but in every single fight, I've been grabbed. Even if my opponent started out swinging, it always goes to a shove or grab. So, a martial art that deals with how to react when grabbed seemed pretty nifty. Even the basic techniques I've learned seem like they'd help out a lot against an unskilled opponent. I'd like to live my life so that I never ever get in a fight again, but some of what I'm learning seems useful. Someone asked if I ever just spar. My school does randori, even for white belts. What's "allowed" depends on your belt level. To earn my yellow belt, I had to handle two other guys who tried to grab my lapels, over and over. They were only allowed to attack straight; not a wide armed tackle or clothesline; just a straight armed grab. I needed to demonstrate that I was proficient in "cutting," (putting a knife hand against their elbow) and stepping to the side. This was not a simple, 10% effort exercise. The guys in my school will grab me and throw me to the ground, hard, if I let them. The first time I tried this exercise, I went right out and bought a mouthguard, as one of the successful grabs slammed me onto the mat so hard I clacked my teeth together. There were two students testing for blue belt, too. Their opponents are allowed to tackle or grab in any way. I didn't see any strikes, so I don't know if it's not allowed at that level, or if the attackers just didn't attempt them. The defender was allowed to use any throw or lock that he wanted. That is the closest to sparring I've seen in class. There are some maneuvers that I imagine would be very hard to practice at 100%. One of the simplest yet most effective is an open handed palm strike directly to the throat. When we practice it, we strike the chest, and it's intense. I can't imagine actually striking someone's adams apple with any sort of strength and not hurting them. Some of the locks and throws are useful in the wrestling after class. There's a blue belt kid who's a little smaller than me, but he's much more skilled, so he's a good match for me right now. I was able to get one of his hands in a wrist lock that I'd learned in class, force him to extend his arm, then I wrapped my legs around his elbow and pulled his arm down and submitted him. The aikido technique helped a lot, in that instance. The higher level students do resist when they are Uke, and they hit hard as Nage. My dojo is in a rough part of a rough town (new bedford,) and a lot of these guys have been laborers and working men for their entire life. I fix computers. I can spend all the time I want at the gym, and it doesn't compare to 30 years of physical labor. So they hit hard, especially when working with higher belts. I'm just a beginner, so they pull their attacks when I am Uke, but they resist when I am Nage. When I see the higher level students practicing, however, it's hard hits, hard throws, and real submissions. You don't just tap because someone is touching your wrist; you try to resist and they crank on you until it hurts and you have to tap. Same with attacks that start with strikes. Sure, we don't focus on punches very much, but when Uke attacks, it's supposed to be a full speed punch aimed at the target (or chop, or whatever.) When Uke grabs, it's 100%. By Friday, my wrists are covered in bruises from 4 days in a row of that. One of the things I'm going to try to work on these next few weeks is being able to take harder throws, and be a tougher Uke. I realize that with a mat, and a mouthguard, the odds of serious injury are slim, and I shouldn't be a wimp about it. And, in a year or two, I do want to take other martial arts. There's a judo school very close to me, and an MMA gym that advertises BJJ. But for now, as a beginner, I want to focus on one thing and get good at it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2012 00:02
|
|
|
Has anyone here tried Stephen Kesting's Grappling Concepts course?
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2012 00:26
|
|
|
I haven't, but I really like his youtube channel.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2012 04:07
|
|
|
02-6611-0142-1 posted:I haven't, but I really like his youtube channel. Yeah, I like a lot of his stuff and almost feel like I wouldn't mind buying the course to support him because I've consumed so much free content from him, however its pretty damned expensive so I'm still teetering on the fence.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2012 04:18
|
|
|
Bohemian Nights posted:Speaking of police, and to talk about loving anything other than what people's opinion on the efficacy of Aikido is; (Can't we just all agree to laugh at ninjitsu?) What kind of training do police officers generally receive as far as self defense, takedowns and control of suspects go? It seems like cops are usually pretty proficient at keeping someone on the ground, but it occurs to me that it might be because there's always more of them than you. And because they yell a lot. One of my friends just finished all the cop school stuff (it's quite harder to become a cop here in Quebec than in the US I think. You have to go get a CEGEP degree (it's 3 years done after high school) and then spend a while in a special cop school where you have some more exams and stuff to do before you can apply to be a cop) and his training was pretty basic. They did some grappling (mainly wrestling and something close to BJJ/judo newaza) and some boxing and kickboxing. There was not a lot of time spent learning hand to hand combat from what he told me. The guy is pretty strong and has a background in TKD and he won most of the spars they did and he said most people were really bad and he could get them in triangles and rear naked choke all the time even if most of his grappling techniques were learned from watching the UFC. I think they have more training in how to use their equipment than anything else because a cop should "never" have to fight 1 on 1 hand to hand. Normally there's more of them like you said and they have tasers and batons and pepperspray and guns Thanks for the insight, that was me asking if you ever do real randori. Your club seem to be much better than the one I attended for a few months and have more realistic training so that's great. You say you sometime have some wrestling after class? You mean that you have some free mat time? What sort of fighting do you do with what kind of rules? That sounds like a great opportunity for you guys to test out some of your Aikido techniques in more realistic scenario. It really sounds like you have a good club compared to the majority I have seen/heard of. KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Jun 30, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2012 04:32
|
|
|
So me and the fiance are watching Bad Gurls Club and there's some fighting and girls winging haymakers and slapping and basically thinking they can fight but can't. She remarks that she could easily smash any of these girls in a fight. I ask her why she thinks that and she said shes a judoka now, she could beat up basically any girl that isn't a grappler. She's gone to about 3 or 4 lessons. Sigh.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2012 04:48
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:Speaking of the "being heavy" thing... it's loving killing me. I weigh 125kg or so, and my usual training partner weighs 130-135. When he mounts or gets into side control, I want to tap because he's just so loving heavy it hurts. I know I do the same thing, but he seems to last much longer under me than I can under him. I just need to harden the gently caress up and turn slightly on my side, right? I had the same problem when I first started judo and we were doing ground work. I weighed 167lb/76kg and anything higher than my own weight realllly hurt my ribs and chest as they rested their weight on me. I'm about 176lb/79kg now and I can easily take 90kg guys on top of me now. Its conditioning and just doing it week after week so that you're used to it. I used to want to tap to pins due to the pressure but now I can definitely handle way more so just stick with it. e: Here's the highlights for the Judo Moscow Grand Slam 2012. Nierbo fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Jun 30, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2012 05:03
|
|
|
KingColliwog posted:Thanks for the insight, that was me asking if you ever do real randori. Your club seem to be much better than the one I attended for a few months and have more realistic training so that's great. Once class ends, people who want to stick around and do whatever are allowed. I've never been the last one to leave. Class normally lasts between 90 minutes and two hours, and then people who have the energy and inclination can do whatever they want afterwards. Often, I ask the two green belts to help me practice what we learned. However, some of the younger guys were doing some freeform grappling and wrestling one day, and I thought it looked fun. No real rules, but no hard striking, either. Just get on the mat and roll around until someone taps out. It's exhausting, but really loving fun. In the few little bouts I've done, I've learned that my takedowns suck, and I have a lot to learn, but I do know enough joint and submission techniques that I'm not totally helpless.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2012 05:10
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:There are several cops at my BJJ gym. They are very good at it, and when one of their cop friends comes along, he usually knows how to do a couple of takedowns and armlock style submissions already. They also really really don't need any training in the whole "keep your whole weight on the opponent as much as possible" thing. I'm not saying all cops are like that, just the ones I've trained with. first off, both of you just need to lose a lot of weight
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2012 08:39
|
|
|
There are certainly benefits from having the weight of a moon bearing down on your opponent when it comes to grappling. See: Big Country's side control and crucifix.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2012 08:53
|
|
|
Bohemian Nights posted:There are certainly benefits from having the weight of a moon bearing down on your opponent when it comes to grappling. See: Big Country's side control and crucifix.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2012 09:48
|
|
|
Take the magic out of a man and replace it with muscle? You're a heartless monster.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2012 10:06
|
|
|
Paul Pot posted:first off, both of you just need to lose a lot of weight Yeah, we know. I lost 20kg in the 9 months before starting bjj (first goal was get fit/thin enough to start doing MA), and 6kg in the ~2 months since starting. He's lost 15kg over 5 or 6 months. We're getting there  Edit: I should say that this is mostly a "get fit, get thin" thing for me. I need something I can tangibly see improving to motivate me. A goal of jogging 3km instead of 2.5km doesn't work. Being able to say "I'm noticeably better at rolling, and this week I made someone tap" works wonders for my motivation to exercise, therefore lose weight and gain endurance, therefore become better at bjj, etc. Bohemian Nights posted:There are certainly benefits from having the weight of a moon bearing down on your opponent when it comes to grappling. See: Big Country's side control and crucifix. My brother (98-99kg) fought a 165kg dude a couple of months ago. It was intense. I didn't fully realise how big the dude was until I did the math: that would be like me fighting a 60kg guy. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Jun 30, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2012 13:38
|
|
|
I haven't mentioned our Martial Arts Goons Fitocracy group in a while. Everyone should join and track their workouts. Because if there is one thing that should get you to do that extra set or workout, it's "props" from internet strangers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2012 17:26
|
|
|
I did that for a while, but then I forgot my password. Also, I can't stand the thought of the judging eyes of internet strangers when I forego physical exercise for another four hours of battlefield 3
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2012 11:36
|
|
|
I know this is a common question here, and maybe there was even a seperate link but I've been thinking of doing some travelling for BJJ (or maybe Muay Thai). I was just browsing the popular sites like ConnectionRio and TigerMuay Thai, and while Id much rather do BJJ (I train both), the Tiger MuayThai looks incredibly cheap (Training, accomodation and food for under $1,000 a month or so). Im thinking of doing about a month long trip maybe. Its pretty cliche I know but my priority is simply getting into somewhere where I can train for about a month straight, everyday sort of camp. Anyone ever do anything like this, or point to some good information?
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2012 21:12
|
|
|
A goon wrote about his experiences doing the Muay Thai Thailand thing a while back, and someone relatively recently posted a link to the archived thread. Maybe someone has the link handy?
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2012 21:23
|
|
|
Word. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2718014&pagenumber=1&perpage=40#post337318346 There was also a nice long post someone referenced to me when I asked about it in this thread about a guys experience. At any rate. I'm down to hear any info anyone else has because in the next year or two I'd love to go to Thailand and train for a month. I trained BJJ in Rio (Copacabana) and can tell you about that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2012 22:25
|
|
|
Christoff posted:Word.? Cool, how long did you go for? What was your total budget and expenses, and how did you do it? (did you just book everything seperate and got there, or use something like ConnectionRio?)
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2012 22:33
|
|
|
I did four months of muay thai just on the outskirts of the Bangkok metro as well.. wouldn't say my accomodation was great, but the location was good if your true intention is training and not philandering. No tourists about, so culture shock too, as there aren't any tourists so english is a rarity. I liked being far enough out of the city that I could easily go in for a night or weekend to party on my days off, (or when I was injured  , but not too close that it'd be a common occurrence.Most of the muay thai places are in pretty touristy areas, Phuket, Pattaya, Ko Tao, Ko Pha Ngan, Chiang Mai.. which as I said can be a hindrance depending on your focus. Thailand is dirt cheap everywhere you'll go. I'd say $800-1000 for accommodation, food, a few nights out, and training costs for a month would be very hard to go over budget on. On the low end I had a friend who was spending $150 a month for accommodation at the school, in a non AC communal room.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2012 00:29
|
|
|
I've never been there myself, but Tiger Muay Thai seems to be a good place to go if you want BJJ, Wrestling & MMA training as well. For straight Muay Thai it doesn't really matter where you go, just decide on the crowd you want to be around. Pattaya, Bangkok & Phuket are filled with sex tourists while Ko Tao, Ko Pha Ngan and those other islands are filled with hippie backpackers. Nobody I know went to Chiang Mai, but that's the only place I'd want to train at because I hate excessive humidity. E: Has anyone or one of your training partners tried http://teamquestthailand.com/? Paul Pot fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Jul 2, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2012 08:27
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:They also really really don't need any training in the whole "keep your whole weight on the opponent as much as possible" thing. I disagree. The cops here are starting to get their hands on tazers and it isn't going well. So far they've tazed one guy to death because he ran away from them after they tried to question him about a packet of biscuits being shoplifted. There was some video of the chase compiled from random security cameras along the route and honestly, a lot of it comes back to them being really scared of getting physically involved with an unarmed, shirtless, drunk suspect. I can't help but think familiarising them with those sorts of situations beyond just a basic armlock and driving a knee between the shoulderblades would take some of the fear out of them. It isn't like they're at risk of being outnumbered or surrounded while they're on the ground. There were 5-6 officers standing over the guy they tazed to death on an otherwise empty street. If anything they need more intensive training during the academy phase of their careers and a bit of a refresher every now and then to keep them comfortable.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2012 09:12
|
|
|
Please do research gyms and fighters from gyms before you go. It's not exactly close your eyes and pick a gym kind of thing. Some gyms focus boxing, some clinching, etc etc.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2012 12:15
|
|
|
I've been practicing hapkido for a while and took some time off recently, anyway I went back tonight after 4 months of not training there. And in the mean time, I found out what a 'McDojo' was and I am trying to work out whether the place is a McDojo or not. Here are the red flags, I've found... - Ranked as a 9th Dan grandmaster, which is meant to be a extremely high ranking... BUT there is no giant influx of students in the dojo or is there much to his actual name on google. It could all be in korean, but I am not sure because I can not speak the language. - Grading happens every month and most people can come in and pay for the new belt with very little dedication to learning the techniques, no matter how bad they are, except for anyone who is going for higher belts, they don't have enough to train themselves as they help others learn. - We practice target kicking and other things only the right side of our bodies, we have never used our left legs for kicking at all. Am I in the wrong place and seriously screwing myself over, or is this what most other martial arts are like?
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2012 13:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 15:07 |
|
|
Smegmatron posted:I disagree. Yeah, I said that not all cops would be like that, but the ones that seem to come to my gym are pretty good at loving up an untrained / new guy without having to learn much themselves. They're good at hanging on to you and keeping their weight on you. Maybe it's an Australian thing? I don't know, I've never been restrained by an on-duty cop, just the ones in the gym. Raphisonfire posted:McDojo? I'm not anywhere near an expert, but it sounds like bullshit to me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 2, 2012 14:12
|
|