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Big Cheese, what the heck is this thing that keeps coming up in the series Rome
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Jul 3, 2012 06:08
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Calendar. He's updating the day's date.
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Jul 3, 2012 06:19
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Aw  I was hoping for something more exotic.
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Jul 3, 2012 06:28
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Grand Fromage posted:Calendar. He's updating the day's date. Talk to me about graffiti. I remember when the Rome tv thread was on people were saying some interesting stuff about how historically accurate it was. "Such and such sucks cocks" sorta thing
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Jul 3, 2012 06:40
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Alan Smithee posted:Talk to me about graffiti. I remember when the Rome tv thread was on people were saying some interesting stuff about how historically accurate it was. "Such and such sucks cocks" sorta thing There are two different kinds, official (painted) and unofficial (etched in usually). Official graffiti consists mostly of advertisements, often political ads or products being sold to people. Vote for Gaius to improve the city, Marcus Furius' olive oil is the best, tell him about this ad and get 10% discount. The second kind is poo poo people scratched into walls. Best way to cover this is to just cut and paste some from Pompeii. I.2.20 (Bar/Brothel of Innulus and Papilio); 3932: Weep, you girls. My penis has given you up. Now it penetrates men’s behinds. Goodbye, wondrous femininity! I.2.23 (peristyle of the Tavern of Verecundus); 3951: Restitutus says: “Restituta, take off your tunic, please, and show us your hairy privates”. I.4.5 (House of the Citharist; below a drawing of a man with a large nose); 2375: Amplicatus, I know that Icarus is buggering you. Salvius wrote this. I.10.4 (exterior of the House of Menander); 8304: Satura was here on September 3rd I.10.7 (House and Office of Volusius Iuvencus; left of the door); 8364: Secundus says hello to his Prima, wherever she is. I ask, my mistress, that you love me. II.2.1 (Bar of Astylus and Pardalus); 8408: Lovers are like bees in that they live a honeyed life II.2.3 (Bar of Athictus; right of the door); 8442: I screwed the barmaid II.3.10 (Pottery Shop or Bar of Nicanor; right of the door); 10070: Lesbianus, you defecate and you write, ‘Hello, everyone!’ II.4.1 (bar; left of the door, near a picture of Mercury); 8475: Palmyra, the thirst-quencher II.7 (gladiator barracks); 8767: Floronius, privileged soldier of the 7th legion, was here. The women did not know of his presence. Only six women came to know, too few for such a stallion. II.7 (gladiator barracks); 8792: On April 19th, I made bread II.7 (gladiator barracks); 8792b: Antiochus hung out here with his girlfriend Cithera. III.5.1 (House of Pascius Hermes; left of the door); 7716: To the one defecating here. Beware of the curse. If you look down on this curse, may you have an angry Jupiter for an enemy. III.5.3 (on the wall in the street); 8898: Theophilus, don’t perform oral sex on girls against the city wall like a dog V.5 (just outside the Vesuvius gate); 6641: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place VI.14 (vico degli Scienziati); 3042: Cruel Lalagus, why do you not love me? VI.14.20 (House of Orpheus); 4523: I have buggered men VI.16.15 (atrium of the House of Pinarius); 6842: If anyone does not believe in Venus, they should gaze at my girl friend VII.2.48 (House of Caprasius Primus); 3061: I don’t want to sell my husband, not for all the gold in the world VII.7.5 (House of the Calpurnii); 4783: Crescens is sweet and charming VII.9 (Eumachia Building, via della Abbondanza); 2048: Secundus likes to screw boys. VII.12.18-20 (the Lupinare); 2175: I screwed a lot of girls here. VII.12.18-20 (the Lupinare); 2185: On June 15th, Hermeros screwed here with Phileterus and Caphisus. VII.12.18-20 (the Lupinare); 2192: Sollemnes, you screw well! VII.12.35 (Vico d’ Eumachia, small room of a possible brothel); 2145: Gaius Valerius Venustus, soldier of the 1st praetorian cohort, in the century of Rufus, screwer of women VII.12.35 (Vico d’ Eumachia, small room of a possible brothel); 2146: Vibius Restitutus slept here alone and missed his darling Urbana VIII.1 (above a bench outside the Marine Gate); 1751: If anyone sits here, let him read this first of all: if anyone wants a screw, he should look for Attice; she costs 4 sestertii. VIII.2 (in the basilica); 1820: Chie, I hope your hemorrhoids rub together so much that they hurt worse than when they every have before! VIII.2 (in the basilica); 1882: The one who buggers a fire burns his penis VIII.2 (in the basilica); 1904: O walls, you have held up so much tedious graffiti that I am amazed that you have not already collapsed in ruin. As you can see, the big takeaway is that graffiti and graffiti writers have never changed.
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Jul 3, 2012 06:46
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If anything I like how all the graffiti found in Pompeii and Herculaneum pays tribute to the relative literacy of the Roman world. I also love seeing into the filthy minds of Romans, this site has some good ones http://archaeology.uakron.edu/pompeii_site/Topics/graffiti/graffiti_main.html The most amusing quote:With humor, in a bar in Herculaneum, next to a drawing of a phallus: Also, some sexual advice for the men from the women of yesteryear quote:And the women did not leave out their sexual advice:
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Jul 3, 2012 06:55
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In HBO's Rome, what is the little plaque that Prosco wears around his neck? By the way, are there any good sites to play around with that Roman wall calendar thing?
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Jul 3, 2012 08:05
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Looking at that graffiti I can't help but laugh at how appalled 18th and 19th century 'archaeologists' must have been when they found and translated those.
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Jul 3, 2012 08:51
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Octy posted:Looking at that graffiti I can't help but laugh at how appalled 18th and 19th century 'archaeologists' must have been when they found and translated those. A lot of that stuff was actually hidden and kept from the public: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretum_(British_Museum)
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Jul 3, 2012 11:30
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Barto posted:In HBO's Rome, what is the little plaque that Prosco wears around his neck? Think that indicated that he was the property of Caesar, pretty big barcode for a slave. Pompeys' slave in the series had Pompey tattoed on the back of his bald head, don't know if that was actually practiced then or just a construct for the show. Edit: what a wonderful thread this is by the way.
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Jul 3, 2012 12:49
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Just Another Lurker posted:Think that indicated that he was the property of Caesar, pretty big barcode for a slave.
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Jul 3, 2012 13:18
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Are there any descendants of the Julian-Claudian house still around? Or even of Mark Antony and Cleopatra?
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Jul 3, 2012 13:24
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bean_shadow posted:Are there any descendants of the Julian-Claudian house still around? Or even of Mark Antony and Cleopatra? Julio-Claudians died when Nero offed himself. Galigula's murders had been so massive that only Claudius and Nero pretty much survived, Claudius because nobody thought he was a threat (he wasn't) and Nero because he was a kid. The sons of Cleopatra and Antony, Alexander Helios and Ptolemy Philadelphus both died young and childless. Cleopatra Selene married a king of Numidia and had some kids, but their kids and their kids are not very well documented after a few generations. Might be someone around who is their great-greatx100-grandchild but there is no way to know for sure.
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Jul 3, 2012 17:07
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DarkCrawler posted:Julio-Claudians died when Nero offed himself. Galigula's murders had been so massive that only Claudius and Nero pretty much survived, Claudius because nobody thought he was a threat (he wasn't) and Nero because he was a kid. The only ancestors would be black  How did the Romans view skin color? Did it matter to them? I know they would have had blacks from Numidia, Ethipoia?, Mali? and asians. I just find it odd we never really see any examples of prominent non-whites in the Empire.
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Jul 3, 2012 18:51
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Numidians weren't "black" as it is understood today. Most likely.
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Jul 3, 2012 18:59
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Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:The only ancestors would be black The Romans didn't care what skin color you were only that you were a citizen. The idea that people with different skin color is inferior is actually a relatively new one.
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Jul 3, 2012 19:00
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euphronius posted:Numidians weren't "black" as it is understood today. Most likely. I remember references describing the Numidian King that helped Hannibal as dark ebony or something. Iseeyouseemeseeyou fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jul 3, 2012 |
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Jul 3, 2012 19:26
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You mean ebony?
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Jul 3, 2012 19:29
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Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:How did the Romans view skin color? Did it matter to them? Edit: Numidian royalty interbred with Carthaginian nobility so the color of their kings might not be indicative of the population as a whole. But I've always thought Masinissa and Jugurtha just sound like names only black guys should have so I always think of them as black. 
physeter fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jul 3, 2012 |
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Jul 3, 2012 19:36
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euphronius posted:You mean ebony? whoops, yes.
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Jul 3, 2012 19:58
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I just finished the fantastic Rome in the East: The Transformation of an Empire by Warwick Ball. I'd can't praise it enough. I had no idea about that part of the Roman empire, except for the stuff mentioned in the bible. Why did the Romans react so harshly to the Jewish Revolt, since it was mostly Sectarian violence? Ball describes the Revolt as being most closely related to the Iranian Revolution. Basically, as he describes it: Judea was a client state and not under direct Roman rule like Antioch. The Romans aquired Judea just a year after Syria and it was really easy for them. The Romans were in a pickle though because they had a policy of religious freedom, but also hated nationalist revolt. In the aftermath of the Maccabaen Revolt, to the Jews religious was nationalism. So the Romans put Herod in charge of Judea, and that seemed to work okay for them. Their main concern was keeping Persia in check. Herod rebuilt the temple, the Romans stayed out and everything seemed okay. Then, all of a sudden the Jewish community is tearing itself appart, the province is out of control and thousands of people are dying. It seems like the Romans could have just stayed out and waited to see what happened, as long as Persia didn't try to retake Judea as they had a few decades earlier. So why did the Revolt happen after decades years of peace under Rome, and why did Rome react so harshly? I hope you're familiar with this topic because I'd love to finally have someone to discuss it with! If you don't already have the book, it's terrific. It was the first major study of Rome in the East in years, and I would consider it one of the best books on Rome in general. e: Actually, if you know, I'd be interested in what the early Christians were doing during the Revolt. Ball has a lot of good information on the origins of Christianity, and the growth of the Church up to the Christianization of Rome but he starts later chronologically since they obviously weren't major players at the time. Frosted Flake fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jul 3, 2012 |
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Jul 3, 2012 20:24
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euphronius posted:Numidians weren't "black" as it is understood today. Most likely. Ancestors to what are modern Berbers.
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Jul 3, 2012 20:42
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Alhazred posted:A lot of that stuff was actually hidden and kept from the public: That's hilarious. "And this is the most secret room in the museum, where we store the most dangerous and incendiary kind of archaeological find: dongs."
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Jul 3, 2012 21:40
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Here's a picture of some Tuareg "Berbers" And their traditional alphabet is Carthaginian. So good luck with that.
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Jul 3, 2012 22:05
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The same concept also applies to folklore. When nationalism took fire after the Napoleonic wars, national epics such as Kalevala were formed by systematically collecting tons of epic poetry from the local peasants. The problem was, much of that had to do with the old in-out. Most of those poems were left out from the Kalevala collection, apart from morally acceptable bits such as condemning incest. Even then Kalevala is quite raunchy by the standards of the day, but the original sources are more explicit. Those sexual poems were nevertheless written down and archived all the same. quote:"Hey dick wake up dick/on top of this maid's oval office/this child's hips/this bird's butt/Rise rooster stand stacked/mighty sausage up/rise young without lifting/without pulling with ropes./If you don't rise I will bewitch you/if you're not excited I will curse you." This is Finnish folk poetry from 19th century, but I am not ready to accept that only Finnish peasants were that dirty.
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Jul 3, 2012 22:09
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physeter posted:And their traditional alphabet is Carthaginian. So good luck with that. How much do we know about the Carthaginians anyway? Since Rome basically utterly destroyed them anything we would know would have to be documented by the people who hated them most physeter posted:He's all like, "Aaaaand what am I supposed to do with that?" Even though the Latins probably originated somewhere inside it, they felt no particular cultural connection with Western Europe at all. How was Gaul integration with the empire compared to the Germanics? The Germanic peoples always seem to be very contentious, going between serving Rome on the front lines to sacking it. The Gauls I imagine we're looked down upon for some time (hence the scene in Rome where Cicero uses the Gallic senators as proof of Caesar's corruption, cuz they're a bunch of long haired dirty hippies) but I imagine eventually assimilated with less fuss?
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Jul 3, 2012 22:33
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Grand Fromage posted:Marcus Furius' olive oil is the best, tell him about this ad and get 10% discount. This is starting to get creepy.
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Jul 3, 2012 23:04
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Farecoal posted:This is starting to get creepy. Seems that advertising hasn't changed all that much in the past 1933 years when it comes down to it!
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Jul 3, 2012 23:37
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I imagine their jewelry shops also had constant, year round MAJOR DISCOUNT BLOWOUT sales too. So I'm assuming the word 'vandalism' is derived from the Vandals, but what's the backstory behind that? Was it just propaganda that stuck throughout history?
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Jul 3, 2012 23:56
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quote:II.4.1 (bar; left of the door, near a picture of Mercury); 8475: Palmyra, the thirst-quencher Is this an ad for Palmyran beer? Looks like drink advertising is the same as always too.
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Jul 4, 2012 00:58
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Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:How did the Romans view skin color? Did it matter to them? No, that's a modern racial thing. Roman identity was a lot closer to the way Greeks viewed it. The traditional Greek way was that if you spoke Greek and accepted Greek culture, you were Greek. Rome has the added wrinkle of citizenship, but fundamentally it's the same thing. Especially after Caracalla extends citizenship to everyone, you have Romans of all types. The emperors come from all over--don't believe anyone who says there were black emperors (there's a whole "everyone important in history was black!!" revisionist movement that is really funny, if you're curious--I think it's disrespectful to the actual achievements of black Africans but that's a different thread), but there were at least some probable Arabs and various other brands of white people who are not in any way ethnically Roman. Alan Smithee posted:How much do we know about the Carthaginians anyway? Since Rome basically utterly destroyed them anything we would know would have to be documented by the people who hated them most That's a problem with lots of people Rome destroyed. Carthage at least had writing, and I believe there are surviving records but I haven't read any. Alan Smithee posted:How was Gaul integration with the empire compared to the Germanics? At the time of that scene Gaul was new so there wasn't any real integration. Eventually they were as Roman as anybody else, Roman culture survives in Gaul well past 476. You can draw a pretty continuous line from Roman Gaul to the Merovingians, then the Carolingians. You can also extend this to the Holy Roman Empire, which is why I said before that their claim to be a Roman successor isn't as much bullshit as, say, Russia's.
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Jul 4, 2012 01:12
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Can somebody put something out about the Gracchi Brothers?
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Jul 4, 2012 03:55
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What was the life expectancy like in Rome? Did Romans have pets, and what kind if so? e: VVV Thanks for doing this btw. I love Rome. Easily my favorite civilization in history to read about. They're so awesome. Ginette Reno fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jul 4, 2012 |
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Jul 4, 2012 03:55
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Vigilance posted:What was the life expectancy like in Rome? Did Romans have pets, and what kind if so? Similar to the rest of the pre-modern world. Many (the majority?) of people died in childhood, but if you made it past childhood you could reasonably expect to live into your 60s or 70s, barring disease or violence. Life expectancy for rich Romans might've been better than average since they had access to excellent medical care. Romans kept dogs at least, the earliest beware of the dog sign I know of is in Pompeii:  Cats were probably all over the cities as vermin control, I'm not sure if they were kept as pets. I don't remember reading anything specifically about pets.
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Jul 4, 2012 03:58
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Orkiec posted:Can somebody put something out about the Gracchi Brothers? Here's some basic info off the top of my head, I'm sure someone can do a more thorough job. Basically the brothers Gracchi were all about land reforms and helping the common man in response to the economic turmoil at the time (133-123 BC). They came from a pretty distinguished background (grandfather was Scipio Africanus) and the older brother, Tiberius, was a pretty distinguished individual in his own right (he fought in the third Punic War and allegedly was the first Roman to scale the walls of Carthage). In 133 BC Tiberius was elected as a tribune of the plebs. A few important aspects of this office were that A) they could convene the council of the plebeians and call for votes, B) they had the power of veto, and C) they were sacrosanct, which means that attacking or harming them was essentially viewed as assaulting the gods. Anyway, Tiberius uses his office as a way to attempt to reform the land laws, which at the time were not being enforced, and as a result the rich had vast estates while the poor remained homeless and destitute. Tiberius' goals were redistribute the land to peasants and soldiers, which naturally pissed off almost every senator (at this time to be a senator you had to be rich and from a noble family) so the senate convinced other tribunes to block Tiberius' reform plans until his term ended, at which point they could prosecute him for being a rabble-rouser. Naturally, Tiberius plans to run again in order to keep his reform plan going. While the elections are going on (I may be mistaken about this, correct me if I'm wrong) some senators round up a gang, find Tiberius and his supporters, and club them to death in the Forum. The reformers still managed to redistribute some land, but the violence effectively ended it for a decade. The second, younger, brother was Gaius. In 123 BC he also became a tribune of the plebs, and revived the land reform program his brother had started. He also gained popularity with the urban poor and with the non-Senatorial equestrian class through various means. Other reforms he pushed were for increased rights for non-Romans and fixing the prices of grain to allow people to, y'know, be able to eat. With a pretty wide base of support Gaius was able to be tribune multiple times. He ran into trouble when he proposed giving citizenship to Italian allies, which culminated in himself and his supporters being killed off. His death ended attempts at significant reform in the Roman world for several decades, with Sulla's reforms in the 80s BC being the next significant point.
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Jul 4, 2012 06:20
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I might be going outside the scope of discussion a bit here, but thanks to this thread and various books, I know a lot about the classic Roman Empire in the west, but very little about the Eastern/Byzantine empire, other than it lasted for about a thousand years longer than the western empire. How did it change during that period? In particular, did they keep the classic legionary armour, weapons, and training, for example, or did they develop their own armour and adopt new weapons and tactics like the crossbow and perhaps even very early guns?
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Jul 4, 2012 13:20
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canuckanese posted:B) they had the power of veto, And veto power meant veto over any other body or magistrate, including the senate, as well as having the power to convene the senate. Being given the tribunical power is in fact a large part of the emperor's legal power once Augustus comes along.
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Jul 4, 2012 15:53
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So I gather there are different theories as to the etymology of the name of Julius Caesar. I recently read that Caesar depicted coins an elephant trampling on a gallic horn. Apparently he believed that his name came from the phoenician name for elephant because one of his ancestors had killed an elephant in one of the punic wars. As I hadn't heard this explanation before I read up on it and discovered that there are several possible meanings of the name. This makes me wonder what the "more likely" etymology of the name is.
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Jul 4, 2012 16:37
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Can you give some background on the state of the Roman empire during the late 14th century? How does it relate to the confederation (?) of German states known as the HRE?
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Jul 4, 2012 16:41
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Stormtrooper posted:Can you give some background on the state of the Roman empire during the late 14th century? How does it relate to the confederation (?) of German states known as the HRE? Short answer: The Romans at that time were quickly on their way out the door, getting their poo poo pushed in by the Turks. And the Roman Empire never had anything to do with the Holy Roman Empire. Not politically, anyway. The original idea of the HRE was to "re-found" the Empire in the West, with Charlemagne succeeding directly from the last Western Emperor. But that was all just Carolingian/Papal propaganda and nonsense.
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Jul 4, 2012 17:08
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