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Syria shot down a Turkish F4, with the wreckage crashing 1km off the coast of Syria. Assuming the pilots safely ejected and landed in the ocean, how long could they be expected to survive?
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Jun 22, 2012 23:01
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Brown Moses posted:Syria shot down a Turkish F4, with the wreckage crashing 1km off the coast of Syria. Assuming the pilots safely ejected and landed in the ocean, how long could they be expected to survive? That normally depends on the water temperature and the survival gear they have. Assuming the water temperature in the Eastern Med is pretty warm, without a raft, and just life vests, I'd put it at 72 hours max. Someone with access to a SAR instruction can probably give you a more refined answer.
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Jun 22, 2012 23:37
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Brown Moses posted:Syria shot down a Turkish F4, with the wreckage crashing 1km off the coast of Syria. Assuming the pilots safely ejected and landed in the ocean, how long could they be expected to survive? Edit: one report says the pilot and backseater were picked up 8 miles offshore, alive and well, and that Syria has apologized for shooting them down. grover fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Jun 23, 2012 |
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Jun 23, 2012 01:50
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I believe the Turkish president denied those reports, and they are still looking for them.
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Jun 23, 2012 09:21
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Quick question (don't really know anywhere else to ask): I've been researching tables of equipment for US Army Engineer Companies and this website, http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/army/unit/toe/05337L000.htm mentions "Trl". What is a "Trl"? I understand "Trk" as truck. Does "Trl" mean "Trailer"? I can't seem to verify this with google searches...
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Jul 1, 2012 21:53
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A question about training bombs. I've been looking at evidence of OFAB 250-270 bombs being dropped by helicopters in Syria, and I've been trying to figure out if the bombs pictured in my post could actually be some sort of training bomb, mainly because I'd expect there to be a lot less of a bomb of that size after it had detonated. Can anyone give me any insight into training bombs, and if that theory would pan out for the type of bomb I've identified?
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Jul 1, 2012 23:15
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Brown Moses posted:A question about training bombs. I've been looking at evidence of OFAB 250-270 bombs being dropped by helicopters in Syria, and I've been trying to figure out if the bombs pictured in my post could actually be some sort of training bomb, mainly because I'd expect there to be a lot less of a bomb of that size after it had detonated. Can anyone give me any insight into training bombs, and if that theory would pan out for the type of bomb I've identified? If bombs are like everything I've ever seen, training rounds are blue in color. I can't tell from the videos if those are white/grey or a light blue though 
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Jul 1, 2012 23:20
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ManMythLegend posted:That normally depends on the water temperature and the survival gear they have. Assuming the water temperature in the Eastern Med is pretty warm, without a raft, and just life vests, I'd put it at 72 hours max. Someone with access to a SAR instruction can probably give you a more refined answer. If I recall correctly the average water temperature for the Mediterranean Sea at this time of year falls under the "Infinite time, with the chance of shark attacks" category  , but yes 24-72 hours sounds like a good benchmark.Edit: Have a chart 
ElMaligno fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Jul 2, 2012 |
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Jul 2, 2012 04:09
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Brown Moses posted:A question about training bombs. I've been looking at evidence of OFAB 250-270 bombs being dropped by helicopters in Syria, and I've been trying to figure out if the bombs pictured in my post could actually be some sort of training bomb, mainly because I'd expect there to be a lot less of a bomb of that size after it had detonated. Can anyone give me any insight into training bombs, and if that theory would pan out for the type of bomb I've identified? Like Vasudus said, the U.S./NATO standard for inert munitions (which obviously training bombs would be considered) is being painted blue or a blue stripe, as opposed to a yellow stripe for HE. However, I have no idea if this is the same for Russian/Eastern Bloc munitions. That said, generally speaking training munitions are one of two types: a miniaturized "bomb" that is designed to have the same ballistics as a full up round, and which contains a spotting charge for recording impact, and a standard sized bomb that is filled with concrete or some other non-explosive filler to have the same weight (and therefore the same ballistics) as an explosive bomb. Obviously in this case since the bomb is clearly a full up OFAB 250-270 these would be the second type if in fact they were training munitions. Whether Russia ever manufactured these type of training/inert munitions is something I don't know. Regarding Russian munitions, this website might be of some use. Going from that site it looks like they have manufactured inert training bombs that are of a similar shape to their full up rounds but that appear to be a little smaller; nothing on if they actually manufacture full size inert versions of their HE bombs (like the U.S. does with the Mk 80 series). Someone with more EOD type experience can come in and correct me if I'm wrong with any of the following (my experience is only with explosives that function as designed) but I would agree with your assessment that the second picture you posted (the one that is almost intact with a large crack in the casing) is either a complete dud or practice munition, because it was far too intact for any of the explosive to have done anything (if in fact it were HE and not inert). However, the first picture and the last video you posted in the update to that post look like a low order detonation; I say this because both bomb casings clearly had some sort of actual explosive damage done to them (as opposed to just cracking/breaking apart on impact with the ground) but the pieces of the casing that were remaining were far too large for the explosive to functioned as designed (high order detonation). One of the causes of low order dets is a deterioration of and/or cracks in the explosive due to age, something that is entirely possible with the Syrian arsenal. The U.S. military has developed munitions with a reduced amount of less powerful explosive in an effort to reduce collateral damage, and there have been a couple instances of U.S. forces actually employing inert bombs in combat due to a need to reduce collateral damage as much as possible in those instances (SAM site next to a school or mosque or whatever), since the kinetic energy of the weight of a bomb falling would be enough to destroy the target assuming it hit it square on, but these were always with PGMs, either JDAMs or LGBs. Why you would intentionally employ an inert unguided bomb is beyond me (particularly for a regime that isn't particularly concerned about collateral damage), and doing it from a helicopter, where you are going to even further reduce the amount of damage due to the slower speeds involved, makes even less sense. About the only thing I can figure is that they are so unorganized that they don't know what's live and what's inert in their stockpile, because honestly without the distinctive markings there's no real easy way to tell a live round from an inert full size round...but even though I don't see any real distinguishing markings on those munitions (stripes or whatever...I don't think the color of the bomb means anything because I've seen live Russian bombs painted that color), I would think that they would at least have some sort of writing that would indicate live vs inert (U.S. munitions do, in addition to the blue stripe/being painted blue). But to add one last wrinkle to the puzzle, that writing is probably in Cyrillic or English, which raises the question of whether the ground crews loading the munitions would be able to read that (or if they would even care.) Sorry I couldn't give a more definitive answer, but for what it's worth I would agree with your assessment of those particular munitions being OFAB 250-270s. And thanks for reminding me I really need to read more C.J. Chivers.
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Jul 2, 2012 09:25
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For my deployment I have to extend, when I come back I'll have 30 days active time then I start terminal. I'm thinking about reserve or ROTC while I go back to school for a little bit of extra money. I would be starting terminal 2-3 weeks before classes start so if I ended up doing reserve/ guard would this gently caress me over? I don't want to show up and be told that since it's the summer I gotta work 2 weeks and then miss first week of classes. I'm really hesistant to go ROTC due to having to commission later and my major would make me one of those sure shot applications (engineering).
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Jul 5, 2012 17:07
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iyaayas01 posted:Bomb chat [edit] Reports from activists say these bombs were used today on a town in the north of Syria. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jul 5, 2012 |
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Jul 5, 2012 17:19
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HClChicken posted:I don't want to show up and be told that since it's the summer I gotta work 2 weeks and then miss first week of classes. I'm really hesistant to go ROTC due to having to commission later and my major would make me one of those sure shot applications (engineering).
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Jul 5, 2012 23:52
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Bit more on the bomb I posted, this one hit a house and didn't detonate, staying in one piece, and this time they've filmed the markings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_XLUUDvOX4 I've no idea what the markings mean, can anyone clue me in?
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Jul 6, 2012 22:13
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Hi guys, I was wondering if someone could help me interpret my grandfather's final pay stub. I was told all other documents were destroyed in a fire, so this is all I have to go on for his military history. So far what I've figured out: Private Administrative Section Headquarters Company (Don't know what 1620 SU is) Transferred to Enlisted Reserve Corps per War Department Circular 92 ,and 2nd (Indorsment?) Headquarters Camp McCoy I tried going through the rest but I am lost to a lot of what is written there. If anyone has a minute, I just need help translating. Thanks in advance
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Jul 7, 2012 02:18
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Brown Moses posted:Bit more on the bomb I posted, this one hit a house and didn't detonate, staying in one piece, and this time they've filmed the markings The only one I could distinguish is that blue stripe; as previously mentioned that indicates training/non-HE munitions with U.S./NATO countries, but I don't know for sure what it means with a Russian manufactured munition.
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Jul 8, 2012 01:17
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As an Army Reservist who immediately forgot everything related to unit administration come separation, who would I contact for a promotion points summary? My last unit? I've tried to get back into AKO but the help desk is killing me. I'm submitting to the Air Force OTS board in September but I have the opportunity to get LASIK (or probably PRK) before that. I don't want to miss the September deadline in order to get a waiver for the surgery so I'll probably cancel it, but would I be able to get away with it if I didn't mention it on the package? Does anyone know if it would show up on the physical? I don't want to start off a career by saying "gently caress you, air force" but good eyes being an attainable luxury is extremely appealing. edit: the non-rated OTS board. Ixpodsix fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Jul 9, 2012 |
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Jul 9, 2012 19:24
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Ixpodsix posted:As an Army Reservist who immediately forgot everything related to unit administration come separation, who would I contact for a promotion points summary? My last unit? I've tried to get back into AKO but the help desk is killing me.
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Jul 9, 2012 23:21
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You're non-deployable/DNIF until you get two consecutive 20/20 checks. 4 months is the usual amount of time, but I know people who've done it in 2, and one girl that took almost 6.
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Jul 10, 2012 00:47
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Number-5 posted:Hi guys, I was wondering if someone could help me interpret my grandfather's final pay stub. I was told all other documents were destroyed in a fire, so this is all I have to go on for his military history. The money he owes the army are for different allotments. The class n, what looks like C1 N, is his life insurance policy, class B was a program where the army would pay you cash for your dependents, and class e is just paying someone back. Like he owed the PX money or something, it could have also just been he owed some guy money and his leadership made him sign up for this program to make sure the guy got his money. He was in the 241st quartermaster service battalion and they transferred him while in Seattle. APO 724 is just a mailing address. APO is army post office. Looks like he was some kind of paper pusher. Private, Admin Section, HQ Company, 1620 SU. No clue on the SU. The army paid him travel money from Seattle to New York where it looks like he enlisted. So, he only had to travel to WI but made some cash off Uncle Sam since they have to get you to where you enlisted, although I think he was drafted since enlisted is struck through and inducted is in there. Just guessing on that. That last line under remarks before "I Certify..." makes no sense. I don't know why he is being transferred. "Due to increase Foreign Service." WTF? "No time lost under AW 107" means he never went AWOL. Oh hey he was up in canada too. Dawson Creek was the beginning of the Alaska highway. Well the special order 125 paragraph 1 from hq at Dawson Creek it the transferring paperwork anyway. Basically this is your grandpa: 
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Jul 10, 2012 03:00
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Casimir Radon posted:At least in the Air Force getting either surgery makes you non-deployable for 4 months. I'm not sure how they'd handle it when you're trying to get in though. PRK is the better surgey, but it'll gently caress your vision up for at least a couple weeks. Godholio posted:You're non-deployable/DNIF until you get two consecutive 20/20 checks. 4 months is the usual amount of time, but I know people who've done it in 2, and one girl that took almost 6. Alright, I'll bring it up with the interview dude in case it can potentially disqualify me for anything. Thanks.
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Jul 10, 2012 05:24
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I enlisted into the guard from active duty for a new MOS. My contract states that my unit has to get me a new MOS within two years of my contract start. It is now impossible for me to get trained in the job I enlisted for before two years hits. Can I use this as a way to get discharged?
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Jul 10, 2012 08:05
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That works in the navy reserves. I go to school with a dude in a similar situation.
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Jul 10, 2012 14:47
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gleep glop posted:I enlisted into the guard from active duty for a new MOS. My contract states that my unit has to get me a new MOS within two years of my contract start. It is now impossible for me to get trained in the job I enlisted for before two years hits. Can I use this as a way to get discharged? Are you contracted for that job?
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Jul 10, 2012 15:22
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Godholio posted:Are you contracted for that job? Yeah my contract says 35N I'm still a 13M.
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Jul 10, 2012 19:00
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More bomb IDing fun, this time what I believe is a cluster bomb. These two videos were filmed in the same area as the previous bombs were first recorded, and I believe they are Russian cluster bombs, with the marking on the bomblet, A-IX-2, relating to a Russian explosive, but I'm trying to figure out the specific model https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F92m9eqKP14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvCZNWxOZXg Last time the bombs that were seemingly tested in this area ended up being used, so obviously it's very significant if they are cluster bombs. [edit] Managed to confirm it's a cluster bomb, and put together a post I'm sending off to my human rights contacts. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Jul 11, 2012 |
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Jul 10, 2012 23:46
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Brown Moses posted:More bomb IDing fun, this time what I believe is a cluster bomb. These two videos were filmed in the same area as the previous bombs were first recorded, and I believe they are Russian cluster bombs, with the marking on the bomblet, A-IX-2, relating to a Russian explosive, but I'm trying to figure out the specific model I was just getting ready to post what you posted on your blog...concur with the RBK-250 assessment along with the AO-1 bomblets. If I had to guess I'd say they're being employed by the Syrian Air Force's Su-22s.
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Jul 11, 2012 11:50
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What's interesting about that is I have very good information that fixed wing aircraft haven't been used, so either Assad has started using them very recently, or that bomb was dropped from a Hind. I'm trying to see if I can disprove the Hind theory because that would be as significant as cluster bombs being used.
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Jul 11, 2012 12:11
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Brown Moses posted:What's interesting about that is I have very good information that fixed wing aircraft haven't been used, so either Assad has started using them very recently, or that bomb was dropped from a Hind. I'm trying to see if I can disprove the Hind theory because that would be as significant as cluster bombs being used. Allow me to preface this by saying this is almost all speculative analysis backed up by some very basic knowledge on the subject. Some cluster munitions have to be deployed at a certain speed in order to ensure proper dispersion (which is why they are generally deployed from a fixed wing a/c). However, there are also some cluster munitions that don't really have airspeed restrictions so this isn't necessarily a slam dunk (and I don't know enough about Russian munitions to tell you which is which). I was going to ask why the submunitions were so close together in the second video but I'd say that given the fact that both pieces of the bomb are so close together in the first video that the munition hit the ground without dispersing its submunitions and broke apart, which explains why the submunitions are all in one big pile. One other wrinkle is that Syria possesses the KMGU reusable submunitions dispenser, which is how I would choose to dispense submunitions from a helicopter (more effective/wider dispersion vs utilizing a bomb, particularly at the low speed and altitude that a helicopter is generally going to be operating at). Of course, as I think has been made abundantly apparent, weapons are not exactly being employed as designed/in the most effective manner in this conflict. Also, those dudes loving around with UXO submunitions... 
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Jul 11, 2012 13:20
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I was chatting with someone about this and he thinks the fuse was set incorrectly, or something like that so it just slammed into the ground and broke open. I've told my activist contacts to suggest to local activists that next time they find intact unexploded bomblets to not pick them up to take a closer look.
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Jul 11, 2012 14:09
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How much leave, if any, does one typically get for thanksgiving while at BOLC? Specifically, Signal BOLC.
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Jul 12, 2012 00:26
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I thought it was usually treated as a 4 day weekend.
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Jul 12, 2012 12:51
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Anyone ever filed an IG complaint before?
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Jul 14, 2012 21:44
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Casimir Radon posted:Anyone ever filed an IG complaint before? Yes.
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Jul 15, 2012 17:11
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You don't say.
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Jul 15, 2012 21:49
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Mr_Ruckus posted:How much leave, if any, does one typically get for thanksgiving while at BOLC? Specifically, Signal BOLC. I wasn't there for BOLC, but I did AIT there. It should be a four day weekend. Talk to whoever herds the officer cattle there about mileage passes if that's your intent.
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Jul 17, 2012 21:40
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Was it absolutely useless? If this was regarding the incident I suspect it is, I can't imagine that IG would have been the least bit helpful.
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Jul 18, 2012 00:07
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grover posted:Was it absolutely useless? If this was regarding the incident I suspect it is, I can't imagine that IG would have been the least bit helpful. When I was a Paralegal I used to assist people with these if they happened to be our client for other problems they had and the set of circumstances was significant to that situation. Go see Legal Assistance if you're seriously considering an IG complaint. They can assist you in getting all your ducks in a row so you don't complain based on hearsay and the IG officer can't just say "Welp, we believe you, but we can't just wreck Sergeant Dickbag's career over something we can't prove." There is also something called an Article 138 complaint for those alleging wrong doing against their commanding officer. This must go all the way up through your chain of command to the General Court-Martial Convening Authority (usually the first General officer in your chain of command, but sometimes a Colonel) for disposition. We called this the nuclear option. Again, go see a Legal Assistance attorney for assistance.
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Jul 18, 2012 00:31
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grover posted:Was it absolutely useless? If this was regarding the incident I suspect it is, I can't imagine that IG would have been the least bit helpful. They substantiated pretty much everything I complained about but your boss at the time already gave all the offending officers lors so there wasn't much they could do which was fine. My lawyer only had me file it just so I could get official federal whistle blower protection which came in handy because I was stuck there for a year after all that poo poo went down. I had already won my appeal by that time anyway, this was just to protect me from retribution, which it did. In the end, I claimed seven things and they substantiated six.
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Jul 18, 2012 02:51
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Signaleer posted:When I was a Paralegal I used to assist people with these if they happened to be our client for other problems they had and the set of circumstances was significant to that situation. Go see Legal Assistance if you're seriously considering an IG complaint. They can assist you in getting all your ducks in a row so you don't complain based on hearsay and the IG officer can't just say "Welp, we believe you, but we can't just wreck Sergeant Dickbag's career over something we can't prove." One of my substantiated claims was that I filed a 138 that they didn't forward. I don't think it's the nuclear option. Your CO won't hesitate to buttfuck your career if you step out of line, the rules apply to him too. In fact, the 138 IMHO is drastically under used.
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Jul 18, 2012 02:55
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front wing flexing posted:One of my substantiated claims was that I filed a 138 that they didn't forward. I don't think it's the nuclear option. Your CO won't hesitate to buttfuck your career if you step out of line, the rules apply to him too. In fact, the 138 IMHO is drastically under used. I meant it in the sense that if your commander hosed around with it or blew it off, it didn't typically end well for him. Not necessarily related, but another route I've seen Joes go is through their Brigade commander's open door policy. If the kid isn't a total slapstick and has the balls to look an O6 in the eye and tell him he hosed up but wants another chance, it sometimes works with the right officer.
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Jul 18, 2012 03:53
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