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ImpAtom posted:I am pretty sure most people did that, which is why the common perception of JRPGs is "grind to win" despite the fact that there are a billion non-grinding solutions even in something as basic as Final Fantasy People, will, in general take the path of least resistance, even if it ends up being more work overall.
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Jul 10, 2012 00:07
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It's actually rather elegant design, because it means people who get into the guts of the game and want to challenge themselves can find those strategies (like the stuff we've been doing in the Fiesta) while people who just want to experience the story can spend another 20 minutes grinding and trivialize the challenge. JRPGs (and some western RPGs too) have been organically doing what Bioware created a ludicrous "new" system for in ME3 since at least the 8-bit era. Most games that use stuff like scaling XP to cut down on grinding either end up being too easy for genre vets (Suikoden) or too hard for casual players (Persona) because as it turns out it's really loving hard to balance a 20-100 hour JRPG. Not that there's anything really wrong with games specifically for casual or hardcore players. Of course, reviewers who play one of these games per console generation and haven't actually beaten one since the PS1 era just sorta gloss over that.
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Jul 10, 2012 00:16
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Oh, hey, Mega, make sure to save Hourglasses to get through the Marlboros guarding the Avenger. I really don't think there's any other way through them. And you really don't want to miss that sword, as I'm sure you remember from the LP. And don't forget the Magemasher does x4 damage to "mages" and Cecil can equip knives... I had quite a few moments where I prevailed/saved resources by utilizing the fact that Cecil can equip a whole bunch of stuff. Outfitting him with Edge's gear that just boosts Str and Agi is (situationally) a great idea. Along those lines, one of the Ogre enemies rarely drops Giant Gloves which give +10 Str. Pretty helpful. Oh, and Gaia Gear from Mysidia protects against Stone if you haven't fought the Wind Fiend yet. http://guides.gamercorner.net/ffiv/armors/gaia-gear I'm not sure how reliable that site is, but I do remember having found something to protect vs stone in that fight. Again... Cecil can equip lots of stuff, this has surprising applications Edit: also now that I think about it.. maybe 70 is more where you need to be to beat the Trap Doors... in any case the key is the Avenger and any Str/Agi boosting items you can get at that point Beaumains fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Jul 10, 2012 |
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Jul 10, 2012 06:22
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So Theatrhythm has, naturally, got me thinking about Final Fantasy music all the time now. I'd like to buy one or two albums to take care of the itch when I'm just listening to music, but there are so many to choose from. Would anyone like to recommend any particular albums? I'm looking for something that covers the good stuff from a variety of games in the series, instead of some sort of definitive soundtrack for any one game in particular.
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Jul 10, 2012 07:17
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Zombies' Downfall posted:It's actually rather elegant design, because it means people who get into the guts of the game and want to challenge themselves can find those strategies (like the stuff we've been doing in the Fiesta) while people who just want to experience the story can spend another 20 minutes grinding and trivialize the challenge. JRPGs (and some western RPGs too) have been organically doing what Bioware created a ludicrous "new" system for in ME3 since at least the 8-bit era. Persona did have difficulty levels though. Either way the difficulty curve was a bit messed up, they'd start out hard and by the end be cakewalks if you were keeping up on S. Links and fusions. I guess that's kind of the grinding replacement though - you can actually get Persona much higher than they'll let you grind them by having S.Links of a high level and fusing whenever you level up.
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Jul 10, 2012 07:24
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Evil Sagan posted:So Theatrhythm has, naturally, got me thinking about Final Fantasy music all the time now. I'd like to buy one or two albums to take care of the itch when I'm just listening to music, but there are so many to choose from. Would anyone like to recommend any particular albums? I'm looking for something that covers the good stuff from a variety of games in the series, instead of some sort of definitive soundtrack for any one game in particular. Well, I would highly recommend the piano collections, but those tend to focus on a single game. The Dissidia soundtracks span a lot of the games, but have a really heavy focus on battle themes, with only 1 or 2 more calm tunes per game, due to the nature of the Dissida games themselves. Symphonic Fantasies from Square Enix would be a good choice if you like the music from Squeenix's other games, specifically Kingdom Hearts, Chrono Trigger, and Secret of Mana.
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Jul 10, 2012 07:51
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Evil Sagan posted:So Theatrhythm has, naturally, got me thinking about Final Fantasy music all the time now. I'd like to buy one or two albums to take care of the itch when I'm just listening to music, but there are so many to choose from. Would anyone like to recommend any particular albums? I'm looking for something that covers the good stuff from a variety of games in the series, instead of some sort of definitive soundtrack for any one game in particular. The Distant Worlds CDs are absolutely beautiful orchestral arrangements, if that's your dig (it should be).
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Jul 10, 2012 08:09
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Seconding the Distant Worlds albums, they're very, very good and span the entire franchise, as requested.
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Jul 10, 2012 08:12
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Since we were talking about FF4 anyways I thought this remix album was pretty neat. I always think the cover art is pretty goofy but there's at least a few really, really well done songs on there.
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Jul 10, 2012 08:15
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I've been playing FF4DS and man, Dark Elf just might be the toughest storyline boss in the series (unless this game outdoes him later). Took me four tries to beat him, Cecil had to spam Cura and I almost ran out of phoenix downs trying to keep Tellah alive long enough for Firaga. Also, I'm guessing I should save my augments until I get my final party? I just got the Earth Crystal and have Counter and Auto-Potion, have I missed anything useful? vvv Thanks for the heads up. Looks like I already missed Bluff and Dualcast among others. 
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Jul 10, 2012 08:44
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For some reason, you have to give temporary party members Augments in order for them to leave the ones for their special skills. If you see someone that has a skill you like, you'll have to give them useless ones if you want to keep it.
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Jul 10, 2012 08:48
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Kyrosiris posted:Seconding the Distant Worlds albums, they're very, very good and span the entire franchise, as requested. My favorite is 20020220, followed by Distant Worlds 2. Songbook Mahoroba is the comedy option. But I love that too anyway.
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Jul 10, 2012 09:20
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FF4DS: Remember that almost every boss in the game is vulnerable to Slow. Spam that spell.
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Jul 10, 2012 09:42
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Evil Sagan posted:So Theatrhythm has, naturally, got me thinking about Final Fantasy music all the time now. I'd like to buy one or two albums to take care of the itch when I'm just listening to music, but there are so many to choose from. Would anyone like to recommend any particular albums? I'm looking for something that covers the good stuff from a variety of games in the series, instead of some sort of definitive soundtrack for any one game in particular. Also give The Black Mages a listen if you like FF, guitars and organs. I think it was them who have a medley of all the battle music. Plus it was Uematsu's band.
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Jul 10, 2012 10:32
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Beaumains posted:Oh, hey, Mega, make sure to save Hourglasses to get through the Marlboros guarding the Avenger. I really don't think there's any other way through them. And you really don't want to miss that sword, as I'm sure you remember from the LP. And don't forget the Magemasher does x4 damage to "mages" and Cecil can equip knives... I had quite a few moments where I prevailed/saved resources by utilizing the fact that Cecil can equip a whole bunch of stuff. Outfitting him with Edge's gear that just boosts Str and Agi is (situationally) a great idea. Thanks for the tips! I managed to get through Barbariccia without stone immunity. It's all about getting off Slow before she spins. Once she spins, she's immune to magic (which is what roadblocked me during a Rydia solo game until I gave up). With that and Haste, I was able to keep dealing damage while healing/curing Gradual Petrification after three castings. The worst part is the incredibly lengthy cutscene before each attempt. Calcabrina was a pain because I was one tick away from killing the final doll twice, thus having to fight the full form, who had nasty spells like Confuse and Hold. I still took it down, though, and the next boss was a cake. About to do the Tower of Babil right now. Can't wait to do that long tedious dungeon. But hey, more loot!
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Jul 10, 2012 10:49
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Star Platinum posted:Also, I'm guessing I should save my augments until I get my final party? I just got the Earth Crystal and have Counter and Auto-Potion, have I missed anything useful? I did this. My characters are level 60 and have trouble with regular map enemies on the moon. 
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Jul 10, 2012 18:14
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Thanks for the music recommendations, everyone. On a whim I ended up picking up the FF9 and FFX piano collections, which are superb. I'm also going to pick up Distant Worlds. I remember 0220200twotwozerotwowhatever being good, so I'm going to grab that as well.
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Jul 10, 2012 18:16
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Evil Sagan posted:Thanks for the music recommendations, everyone. On a whim I ended up picking up the FF9 and FFX piano collections, which are superb. I'm also going to pick up Distant Worlds. I remember 0220200twotwozerotwowhatever being good, so I'm going to grab that as well. If you can find the piano collections for 6 and 8, those are great as well. 8 has probably my least favorite music in the entire series, but the piano arrangements are excellent.
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Jul 10, 2012 18:18
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I know I'm late on this, but I joined the FFV job fiesta. I got white mage. This is both the best and worst thing (I'll probably just cave and use the clause for 1 freelancer + 3 white mages).
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Jul 11, 2012 03:02
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RME posted:I know I'm late on this, but I joined the FFV job fiesta. I got white mage. This is both the best and worst thing (I'll probably just cave and use the clause for 1 freelancer + 3 white mages). Do it. Don't regret it. Four White Mages gives you a hilariously easy early game but it's a completely dismal slog. If you want to feel better about it, change your freelancer back for Garula, it's the only challenging fight four White Mages have. e: oh and if you don't know about it, this google doc is an awesome, awesome resource for fiesta first-timers: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MrmmtZPyCJnRL8ecIp5LOwhDnb_9FLeFQNjOzyVI-R8/edit?pli=1
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Jul 11, 2012 03:07
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RME posted:I know I'm late on this, but I joined the FFV job fiesta. I got white mage. This is both the best and worst thing (I'll probably just cave and use the clause for 1 freelancer + 3 white mages). It's really not too difficult. At the very least, hold off on the Freelancer clause until you've beaten Siren, because of how embarassingly easy she is with three or four WHMs. I went through the first bit with four WHMs, and only regret spending twenty minutes on Magissa.
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Jul 11, 2012 03:07
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RME posted:I know I'm late on this, but I joined the FFV job fiesta. I got white mage. This is both the best and worst thing (I'll probably just cave and use the clause for 1 freelancer + 3 white mages). Nah man, I just finished a White Mage/ White Mage/ Berserker/ Beastmaster run. You just gotta learn to protect at the start of literally every fight until the fire crystal, don't be a puss. Make sure to get the flail (I think flail?) from the ship graveyard, and you might have to grind a bit before Byblos.
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Jul 11, 2012 03:07
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Fungah! posted:e: oh and if you don't know about it, this google doc is an awesome, awesome resource for fiesta first-timers: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MrmmtZPyCJnRL8ecIp5LOwhDnb_9FLeFQNjOzyVI-R8/edit?pli=1 Hell, I wouldn't say just for first-timers. 
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Jul 11, 2012 03:09
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Kyrosiris posted:Hell, I wouldn't say just for first-timers. Yeah, good point. It's an awesome resource, full stop.
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Jul 11, 2012 03:10
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Alright, went ahead and stuck with 4 white mages. Karlabos is down, no real trouble except for slogging through the health pool. It's going to be a long pre-fire crysal.
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Jul 11, 2012 04:26
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RME posted:Alright, went ahead and stuck with 4 white mages. Karlabos is down, no real trouble except for slogging through the health pool. At least it's not 4 Thieves.
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Jul 11, 2012 05:05
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Kyrosiris posted:At least it's not 4 Thieves. 4 thieves wasn't so bad. Karlabos isn't beefy enough to cause concern. Siren can be potion'd to death even if you don't farm up any dagger drops. Daggers can be purchased before Magissa and Forza, and an all-out offense works well enough for them. Mythril knives can be stolen before Garula, and you can also nab an Elven Mantle. On my second thief-less fiesta run, I really really missed !Flee and the innate Vigilance.
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Jul 11, 2012 09:12
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Well I beat FFIV recently and I by beat I mean got to the end, realised I was way too underleveled to take on the last bunch of bosses and watched the ending on youtube. Anyway I'm going to move on to FFV, any advice on which version to play?
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Jul 11, 2012 09:13
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GBA version, the translation is the best, no load times like the PSX version, you can use X-fight and berserkers in the final battle without any issues (I had no idea that was even an issue, it doesn't really matter but I thought it was interesting) and you can do the bonus dungeon afterwards, if so inclined. The only downside is the music doesn't sound as good, or so I've heard. I never really noticed.
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Jul 11, 2012 09:23
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TheIllestVillain posted:Well I beat FFIV recently and I by beat I mean got to the end, realised I was way too underleveled to take on the last bunch of bosses and watched the ending on youtube. GBA version, no contest. It never came out on the SNES in English so you'd need a translation patch. The PS1 version has weird loading bugs. Also the GBA one adds post-game jobs and a dungeon if you decide you want more.
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Jul 11, 2012 09:33
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TheIllestVillain posted:Anyway I'm going to move on to FFV, any advice on which version to play? Yeah what that guy said. It's a toss-up between the GBA version and a translated Super Famicom version. The former has extra content and better translation/text, the latter has better audio (and imho looks better). Just like FF6 and CT the only version to pass up is the PSX one, which is basically the SFAM/SNES version with lovely loadtimes. So hey I posted that I bought 13-2 for $20 at Best Buy like a week ago and I finally got around to putting ~5 hours into it. What's the deal with this game? It's like in one sense they categorically fixed all the problems with 13's gameplay; you can specialize characters basically from the word go, there are areas to explore and hidden stuff to find, monsters drop gil and you can use it to buy weapons and poo poo, and the story (while still patently ridiculous) is at least comprehensible thus far. I should hate Chocolina, but for some reason I like running into her, and I think that sums up my overall experience. I'm not crazy about the monster party thing, and I'd rather just have a third character to customize, but hey putting shades on a behemoth or whatever. The core game design here is what 13 should've been, and it's a drat shame most people will justifiably never play this thing because come on.
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Jul 11, 2012 09:39
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TheIllestVillain posted:Anyway I'm going to move on to FFV, any advice on which version to play? Advanced version. It has an innate run button for everyone, not just thieves.
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Jul 11, 2012 09:52
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Vil posted:4 thieves wasn't so bad. Karlabos isn't beefy enough to cause concern. Siren can be potion'd to death even if you don't farm up any dagger drops. Daggers can be purchased before Magissa and Forza, and an all-out offense works well enough for them. Mythril knives can be stolen before Garula, and you can also nab an Elven Mantle. Yeah, fair, but god was Garula a meat grinder. I think I wiped on him more than anything in my entire Fiesta (though it had a great job comp - Thief/Summoner/Ninja/Samurai).
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Jul 11, 2012 10:21
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Garula with 4 Thieves is the worst thing. At least 4 WMs have a substantial well of non-farmed healing, and in a normal run the Traveler option. Even if you steal four mythril knives he takes half an hour to kill because you can't put anybody in the front row unless you want them to just die at random.
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Jul 11, 2012 10:47
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Sorry for bring this up again, I know this question has been answered a number of times in the old thread, but I just can't find the post right now. Anyways, which version of FF1 to 6 do you recommend I play assuming I have access to all systems? On this very page people recommend the GBA version of FF5. That won't work on the 3DS right? Do I need an original DS (or GBA) to play it? Maybe the OP could be edited to include the recommended version of each game?
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Jul 11, 2012 10:47
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FF1: NES for the oldschool experience, Dawn of Souls (GBA) or PSP for quality. PSP looks and sounds better but Dawn of Souls gets you 1+2 in a two-pack and the actual game contents are basically identical iirc. FF2: Don't play it at all but if you have to Dawn of Souls or PSP. FF3: DS with a bullet. FF4: There is no ideal version, the DS remake has better balanced gameplay and an interesting unique augment system while the GBA/PSP versions offer unique bonus content of their own, sprite-based graphics, etc. Avoid the US SNES version (Final Fantasy 2) because it's generally stripped down and the PSX version because it has lovely CD loading issues with no real advantage. FF5: GBA has bonus content, the best translation, and is generally superior all around. A translated SNES ROM has better audio and will do in a pinch. Avoid the PSX version. FF6: Another toss-up, the GBA version has bonus content but suffers the same audio quality issues. The bonus content is weak enough and the music important enough that I might recommend picking the US SNES version instead. Either version is probably fine, go with the platform you prefer. Avoid the PSX version. The GBA/PSP version of 1 and the DS versions of 3 and 4 have substantially altered gameplay from their original versions, which is why I threw out the NES version of 1 in case you actually want to play for historicity or something. You don't want to play the original versions of 2 or 3, and 4DS isn't objectively better so much as different. And yes, you'll need a DS or GBA to run the GBA versions. If you want to play the series on real hardware that's the platform I'd recommend, because something like a DS Lite can play basically all six games in ideal or nearly ideal versions. Baku fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Jul 11, 2012 |
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Jul 11, 2012 10:55
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e: Beaten.jannik posted:Sorry for bring this up again, I know this question has been answered a number of times in the old thread, but I just can't find the post right now. FF1/2: GBA or PSP versions, probably GBA is best since that one contains both games and is probably cheaper at this point. PS1 also has both, but the GBA has more new stuff, though it's actually rather decent. If you don't mind old-school Nintendo difficulty, give the NES originals a try (though you'll need a translation for FF2). Think they're both on iOS as well. FF3: NES version. DS version is the only official US version, though it's also on iOS, Android, and coming to PSP. All these are the 3D remake and essentially keep the same old-school Nintendo difficulty without really tweaking anything, so it's like playing the NES version, except it's significantly slower-paced and has more balanced jobs rather than the NES version's approach of replacing jobs with better jobs. Either way, the game is difficult and has a lot of bullshit moments, though the battle system's still a step up from FF1/2 (your attacks actually redirect from a dead enemy). FF4: PSP. It comes with the game's sequel (don't play it), and is the GBA version with souped-up graphics. The GBA version works if you don't have a PSP. There's also the DS remake, which is rather faithful to the original except adding new abilities, ramping up the difficulty at places, and the whole 3D graphics with voice acting, but it's more targeted to those who have already played FF4 before. For a first-timer, get the PSP version. Skip the SNES US release, it removed a lot of items/abilities and has a lackluster translation, though the Japanese SNES translation would suffice. Still, you'd be skipping out on the extra content of the PSP/GBA versions. Skip PS1's load times. Honestly, the challenge here is finding a system that FF4 isn't on. FF5: GBA is really your only choice unless you want to play the SNES translation instead, but GBA has extra content. Again, PS1 has bad load times and a horrible translation to boot. FF6: GBA again for the extra content. That said, some may argue the SNES version has a better translation, while others the GBA. Both are fine, so go with whichever is more convenient, and again skip the PS1 version because of load times.
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Jul 11, 2012 11:03
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Mega64 posted:Again, PS1 has bad load times and a horrible translation to boot. Excuse me, but I might just have to report this sort of talk to KARL BOSS. Or maybe the Y-BURNS.
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Jul 11, 2012 11:14
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Thanks for the quick and detailed replies guys! Seems that everything except FF3 is available on the GBA. What would be the best system to play them on? Should I get the original DS and have the added benefit of being able to play FF3 on it. Or would a GBA be cheaper/more practical (battery life/weight)? If GBA is the way to go, which model should I go for? There's the original, SP and micro that I know of.
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Jul 11, 2012 11:20
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The DS Lite still has the GBA slot as well and should be easier to find and IIRC has better battery life. I'd avoid the original GBA (since it still uses batteries) and IMO avoid the SP too since it's so goddamned small.
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Jul 11, 2012 11:25
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