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Eds posted:Has anybody thought of (or have the time to) putting all the helpful tips from this thread into one place? It took me MONTHS to get through this thread and I remember there being some great advice about nutrition, medication, coping & time management strategies and more, but it'd be great to have it all in one place... Maybe one day I'll finish it.
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Jul 11, 2012 16:52
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I have ADHD leaning more on impulsiveness. I haven't had stimulant-based ADHD meds but I'm going to be asking about them in a month when I go to see a new doc. Can anyone tell me if stims help you control your impulses or improve your willpower against doing stupid habitual poo poo or is that all gonna be CBT?Kylra posted:A while back I was going to make a new OP and stuff, but, well... Was wondering how long it would take for this joke
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Jul 11, 2012 17:16
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signalnoise posted:Was wondering how long it would take for this joke Do you want it done fast, or do you want it done right? </hankhill>
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Jul 11, 2012 17:22
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So, how many jobs has everyone else been fired from? I pretty much can only go 4 months at most at one before I suddenly just can't take it anymore and either quit or start messing up (not deliberately) and get fired. It's interesting to hear from my friends who hold down crap retail jobs for *years* while I struggle to even make it past the 4 month mark. Anyone else have problems with that?
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Jul 11, 2012 17:25
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I've been fired from a strip mall computer repair job for being late too many times, and I was effectively fired from a job at a honeybaked ham. They just stopped giving me hours, but I'm pretty sure I just didn't fit their culture at all. Whatever though, it was the 2nd worst job I've ever had.
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Jul 11, 2012 17:31
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signalnoise posted:I have ADHD leaning more on impulsiveness. I haven't had stimulant-based ADHD meds but I'm going to be asking about them in a month when I go to see a new doc. Can anyone tell me if stims help you control your impulses or improve your willpower against doing stupid habitual poo poo or is that all gonna be CBT? Stimulants will likely help with you the impulsiveness stuff.
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Jul 11, 2012 17:31
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signalnoise posted:Can anyone tell me if stims help you control your impulses or improve your willpower against doing stupid habitual poo poo or is that all gonna be CBT? Stimulates won't give you any more willpower, but they can reduce your impulses so that you need less of it.
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Jul 11, 2012 18:08
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Horrible Smutbeast posted:So, how many jobs has everyone else been fired from? I pretty much can only go 4 months at most at one before I suddenly just can't take it anymore and either quit or start messing up (not deliberately) and get fired. It's interesting to hear from my friends who hold down crap retail jobs for *years* while I struggle to even make it past the 4 month mark. Out of the 10 jobs I've had since 2004, only two have I been employed at for over half a year. I've had six jobs in the last two years (AKA since I've been living strictly on my own), but this includes one that I had for a year and a half. Of those, two I was fired for a no call, no show, two I was fired for repetitive tardiness, and the other two I quit on my terms. Related, I'm also going about a month or two in between jobs in these cases as well, as this a normal thing or something that gets exacerbated with the ADHD? So, today marks my seventh day of being on medication again and... I have nothing to say. The problem is on the very first day I took it, I was half an hour late to my job and sent home and I still haven't been called back.  So, the only thing I've really noticed is how I never went took a down turn over it and that I finally got around to cleaning my room. I still plan on medicating myself even though I don't have a real specific reason to as I think it's helping in some way I can't place and because I still need to get used to them.
BirdOfPlay fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Jul 11, 2012 |
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Jul 11, 2012 18:42
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Hey guys, I'm on my second day of 18mg Concerta (generic), and yesterday, it was pretty cool. I didn't feel much of anything other than a 'rush' when I first took it, like I'd just run around or was nervous-excited. Got back late from my trip, stayed with my bf, and got to my house yesterday morning (after having taken the meds) and.. OH GOD WHAT HAVE MY RETARDED HOUSEMATES DONE TO MY BEAUTIFUL TABLE!!?! (it was covered in leftover fireworks and solo cups with liquid still in them and was filthy, and it's a nice antique)And then I got angry and cleaned everything WITHOUT GETTING DISTRACTED. Or rather, I did not experience the usual powerful compulsion to go do something else. My one housemate was impressed that I found my screwdriver in a random kitchen drawer, went to go put it away, and then returned to what I was doing. I don't think this would have happened before, because I would have gotten distracted by something else while putting the screwdriver away/forgotten why I'd walked into my room/forgotten what I was doing before putting the screwdriver away. However, I don't think it fully worked the ten or so hours it was supposed to. I'm definitely going to try the higher doses to see if those affect me differently/more. But then again, I also got prescribed the 10mg Ritalin for a booster if I need it, so I might try some of that. Also, question for those of you on generic Concerta, how much do you pay for it? My 18mg month supply was $180 (!!) sans insurance copay (psychiatrist I went to was really good but out of network so my mom and I have yet to sort insurance poo poo out). The generic Ritalin, on the other hand, was $20. If we're not able to get insurance to help cover the Concerta, I think I'll ask the psych to prescribe the regular Ritalin.
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Jul 12, 2012 17:51
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Does anyone have relatively mild ADD and found it worth medicating? I've never been formally diagnosed, but I'm pretty sure I have it. My academic career was checkered to say the least, but in day to day life, I function well. I know I have to work harder than the average person to concentrate, memorize, and keep from spacing out, but I've figured out some decent coping strategies. That said, I occasionally fantasize about not having to be so vigilant all the time to keep on track. Thoughts?
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Jul 12, 2012 19:00
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Eds posted:Has anybody thought of (or have the time to) putting all the helpful tips from this thread into one place? It took me MONTHS to get through this thread and I remember there being some great advice about nutrition, medication, coping & time management strategies and more, but it'd be great to have it all in one place... There's a this thread over at YLLS which has some really neat advice in it. I found the bits on mindfulness and meditation to be pretty loving awesome. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3489146 usha fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 19:25
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Authentic You: Nice one! I take concerta too (but I find I have to same problems with it as Tias wrote on the last page). I was started on 18mg, slowly went up to 72mg then back down to 54mg at the moment. Don't expect the rush feeling you described to return after a couple of days and good luck!!Poison Cake posted:Does anyone have relatively mild ADD and found it worth medicating? Go to a doctor.
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Jul 12, 2012 23:30
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strange posted:Authentic You: Nice one! I take concerta too (but I find I have to same problems with it as Tias wrote on the last page). I was started on 18mg, slowly went up to 72mg then back down to 54mg at the moment. Don't expect the rush feeling you described to return after a couple of days and good luck!! Thanks! As of day two, I felt less of the rush (which I think is good, because it was basically just an increased heartbeat with no accompanying mental rush), and concentrated pretty well at the illustration I was working on at work. Usually digital painting pisses me off (which is why I still suck after owning a tablet for three years), but today I was much more diligent about it than usual. I started feeling spacey again by lunch, took a Ritalin, and I think it helped a bit. But yeah, I don't think this dose is high enough. Being ADHD-impatient and all, it's great that you can tell how the meds are working so quickly. Unlike antidepressants or something. Also, as for the apathy/anxiety problems, I thankfully didn't feel any of that. Just usual me, sans many of the irresistible distraction compulsions. However, my mom told me that one of the main reasons she did not seek ADHD evaluation for me was because a daughter of family friends was put on Ritalin, and it really messed her up by apparently putting her in that apathetic/anxious 'zombie' state. So, the assumption was that was what Ritalin did to anyone and everyone, and 'I don't want MY daughter on those horrible drugs!' So yeah, so far none of that for me. If I start feeling like that, I'll be sure to call the psychiatrist. 
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Jul 13, 2012 06:30
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Poison Cake posted:Does anyone have relatively mild ADD and found it worth medicating? Yeah, go to a doctor. I felt the same way as you, thinking that it was just something mild I could control. Then I went to a doctor and actually got some medicine that made me realize I was way less in-control than I thought I was.
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Jul 13, 2012 13:21
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Thanks everyone. I'm overdue for a checkup anyway, so I'll bring it up when I go in. I'm currently a SAHM and am actually doing well because I abuse Google Tasks and I have a lot of control over my environment, so I can set myself up for success, not failure. But I notice that certain things around time management are just really hard for me (always have been). I could always daydream and be off in another world on a minute's notice as a kid. My last paid employment was awful. It was a work culture where talking things out was considered preferable to email. So again and again, I'd email someone about a project I was working on and then they'd stop by my desk to talk at length about what they wanted me to change and I'd have trouble following it and ugh. Also, it was a work culture where a high premium was placed on being constantly available (read, constantly interrupted). The one thing I'm wondering, if you're medicated, do you lose the hyper-focus? Because when I'm in a zone for a certain type of work, I can get so much done. But maybe I wouldn't miss it if I was more consistently productive.
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Jul 13, 2012 15:38
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Thanks everyone for the awesome stories/advice (although there is a ton to read) I am hoping to get tested/consulted but would like to talk to a well-reputed doctor/psychiatrist who will hopefully give me the right prognosis and mediciation if I do need it. I live in Dallas, TX and was wondering if anyone had recommendations or referrals to specialists in the area?
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Jul 13, 2012 23:06
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How quickly did your Pdoc titrate your medication up? Mine started me at 20mg Vyvanse and then kept me there my second month. When I told him I was expecting him to titrate me upwards he started going on about dependence and it being a red flag that I would ask for more.
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Jul 14, 2012 02:32
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FINALLY got ahold of someone at the clinic to see what's up . . . They were supposed to get in touch with me earlier but someone wrote my phone number down wrong. Anyway the phone screening lady called, we got through that and I have my eval appointment on the 13th of August!  I'm glad it's set finally but it seems sooooo far away.
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Jul 20, 2012 20:21
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Glad to hear, Honda! It does take a while going through a clinic, but at least now you're not in limbo. Is it just a psychiatry clinic or do they do talk therapy/coaching as well? I'm doing CBT on top of my medication and can say that it should help, but you have to follow through with the advice homework (I've been bad at this). So, general med question. I think I'm fairly stabilized with my meds now, no "buzz" or what have you, but I'm unemployed so I'm having a hard time setting my focus where it belongs. Like, I want to clean my room, apply for jobs, etc. but find myself getting wrapped up in stupid stuff. Is this fairly normal? I mean, when I'm doing what I'm supposed to, the added concentration boost really pays off and it shows that the meds are taking effect. I guess this is what calendars and to-do lists are meant to counteract?
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Jul 20, 2012 20:39
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BirdOfPlay posted:So, general med question. I think I'm fairly stabilized with my meds now, no "buzz" or what have you, but I'm unemployed so I'm having a hard time setting my focus where it belongs. Like, I want to clean my room, apply for jobs, etc. but find myself getting wrapped up in stupid stuff. Is this fairly normal? I mean, when I'm doing what I'm supposed to, the added concentration boost really pays off and it shows that the meds are taking effect. I guess this is what calendars and to-do lists are meant to counteract? The meds help your attention span and other aspects of the disorder, such as Executive Function and the like. They don't magically turn you into an organized person - that's where scheduling and the like come in. Ritalin works for me - but I still maintain a pretty strict schedule during the work week, have all my appointments and such in Google Calendar that's synced with my Android phone, and I just started a paper schedule book for school. Ritalin didn't give me the ability to get organized. However, Ritalin did give me the concentration, attention span, and executive function abilities, so when I looked around at my life and said "What the gently caress am I *doing* here?! This is a mess!!  ", I had the ability to sit down, think things through, and come up with a reasonable plan that I could follow. Before the meds? I'd have that same thought, but then give up and go back to XBOX, because I didn't even know where to begin. If you have friends who are good at organizing things, maybe they can help you out? (And with that all said, my room is still an unholy mess.)
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Jul 20, 2012 21:12
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BirdOfPlay posted:Glad to hear, Honda! It does take a while going through a clinic, but at least now you're not in limbo. Is it just a psychiatry clinic or do they do talk therapy/coaching as well? I'm doing CBT on top of my medication and can say that it should help, but you have to follow through with the advice homework (I've been bad at this). Unemployment is hell. Its pretty much one of the worst transitions for us. A simple cognitive change from looking at results orientated goals to simply prioritization of progress. Its different proposition to say I have to clean my room today vs, if I just pick up my dirty clothes and put them in the hamper (now), I'm making progress. I get things done in passes. Doing the dishes means emptying the dish washer, filling the dish washer, cleaning the kitchen. Hand washing cutting boards and pans. Well that's frickin huge, to me. So I'll put the dishes away, go work on something else. Load the washer. gently caress off for a while. Even if i just get this far- that's something for the day. Less to do tomorrow, rather than getting jack done and feeling like poo poo and having a bigger and bigger pile, forced to eat out, eating like poo poo etc.
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Jul 20, 2012 21:25
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I know the meds are not a magic bullet, and this situation is really starting to make me realize just how right my psych has been when she's been pushing the to-do lists and calendar. It's just getting around to utilizing them that's getting to be a problem. Let's just say that I'm rather stubborn when it comes to change, especially when I was doing fine before (expect, you know, all the ways I wasn't).TheBigBad posted:Unemployment is hell. Its pretty much one of the worst transitions for us. Tell me about it. Recently, I've been averaging about a month between jobs, with the mode being a month+. 
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Jul 21, 2012 11:15
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For those that have been on Adderall XR and Concerta, which one worked best for you and had less side effects? I used to be on Strattera but it didn't sit well with me and am trying to decide between those two as a next attempt.
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Jul 23, 2012 19:39
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Tooter posted:For those that have been on Adderall XR and Concerta, which one worked best for you and had less side effects? I used to be on Strattera but it didn't sit well with me and am trying to decide between those two as a next attempt. I'm on generic Metadate, which is like Concerta. It's really personal choice. I get much less side effects on the Metadate, but I found that the Adderall was more effective in actually directing and maintaining my attention span. (The generic Metadate, though, does a good job overall, and I find that the mood/impulse regulation to be much better on it than Adderall.) I did really poorly on all the Addderall/Dexedrine/Vyvanse-type drugs. But Ritalin-based drugs were like an answer to a prayer. I know of people, however, that had the opposite effect. Really, you just have to try them and see which one fits the best.
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Jul 23, 2012 20:11
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Yeah you really gotta just try it for yourself. Sometimes XR vs IR can make a big difference too. Adderall XR was pretty crap on me: the 2nd dose would kick in before the 1st dose was up, so first I'd get really stoned off my rear end for about an hour, and then later it got to the point where the overlap was the only time I got a good effect. I switched to Dexedrine IR (no IR of Adderall where I am) and it's been great. Not all extended release pills are biphasic too, so YMMV. Also check with your insurance (this includes public stuff like Canadian provinces), they may have some coverage quirks for ADHD like you can't claim X until you've tried Y or whatever. Culinary Bears fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jul 23, 2012 |
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Jul 23, 2012 21:06
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My father was just diagnosed with ADHD. He was in software engineering and so on so I guess he was able to get by without it being a huge problem. I've been worried about having either ADD or ADHD for YEARS but I feel like it's been brushed off whenever I've brought it up to doctors because I also have Major Depressive Disorder. (Or because hurr I'm a woman or probably a drug-seeker or something?) "Oh, it's just your depression. Once you get that taken care of, then your attention span will be better." But it hasn't. I feel depressed just thinking about trying to get someone to take me seriously. I was on Concerta once in high school but it didn't "do" anything for me.
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Jul 23, 2012 21:48
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samizdat posted:My father was just diagnosed with ADHD. He was in software engineering and so on so I guess he was able to get by without it being a huge problem. According to my psychs depression can be a symptom resulting from your ADHD loving you up, and that ADHD, depression, and anxiety go together like bacon lettuce and tomato. The bacon obviously is the most important part there.
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Jul 23, 2012 22:13
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BirdOfPlay posted:Glad to hear, Honda! It does take a while going through a clinic, but at least now you're not in limbo. Is it just a psychiatry clinic or do they do talk therapy/coaching as well? I'm doing CBT on top of my medication and can say that it should help, but you have to follow through with the advice homework (I've been bad at this). I'm not sure. The clinic is a part of a big fancy world-class university hospital so I'd assume that they do actual therapy and stuff too. If they give me actual assignments it should be fine. I mostly have problems when I'm trying to do a project or something on my own. This has probably been discussed before but did your friends and family notice a big difference when you guys went on meds? Did you seem like a totally different person to them or anything like that?
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Jul 23, 2012 23:32
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Yeah samizdad that is definitely worth checking out, especially since it can be very hereditary - maybe if you mention your father it could help finding someone. I'm a woman too and got pulled through the anxiety/depression line for a while with it going nowhere. Once I got ADHD (Inattentive, maybe SCT) confirmed and treated, it went away - turned out, surprise surprise, I was anxious and depressed because I kept loving up/forgetting things/losing track of time all over the place. Also some awful doctor-brushed-off issues with staying up at night and then falling asleep all day - I found out later that ADHD meds also treat narcolepsy, and while I never confirmed if it's that, it sure got better. The meds definitely helped my general mood too, though I've never tried the Concerta/Ritalin line. I do have a friend diagnosed with ADHD who's taking Concerta, and it's been doing close to nothing for him. Some people just don't benefit from the Ritalin family (just as others won't from the amphetamines), doesn't necessarily mean there's no ADHD. Edit: Just wanted to clarify that in my case any "anxiety" wasn't too severe, nothing much past regular feeling stressed/crappy and the occasional freaking out over the future or my performance. If it's anxiety disorder level anxiety, I don't know if dex/adderall would be enough to sort it out. I've heard mention of Strattera being prescribed for dual anxiety/adhd, but I don't know how far that goes. Culinary Bears fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Jul 24, 2012 |
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Jul 23, 2012 23:57
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'The Bad Boy Olympian', an hour long documentary aired last night here in the UK on the BBC.BBC posted:Ashley McKenzie is one of Britain's most successful young judo fighters and he's in line for a place at the London 2012 Olympics. But there's a problem - a diagnosis of severe ADHD has got Ashley into trouble all his life and in the last three years he's been banned from the British judo squad four times for misconduct. One more ban and his chances of fighting at the Olympics will be gone. I haven't had the chance to watch it yet but based on the blurb it doesn't seem like it paints a particularly nuanced picture of ADHD. Yeah yeah it's just an excuse to make Olympics based TV but the public perception of ADHD really bugs me. I'd give it the benefit of the doubt but its from BBC 3, a channel which is not generally known for quality non-fiction, and was probably seen by a relatively large audience. I will update once I've seen it!
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Jul 25, 2012 17:31
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All I know is that there's no way I'd have enough patience to learn any martial art, let alone become a Judo master.
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Jul 26, 2012 15:23
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:All I know is that there's no way I'd have enough patience to learn any martial art, let alone become a Judo master. It's been by saving grace for the past 17 years, sure there is a bunch of repetition but the constant motion, the forced discipline, and the very clear goals made it easy to focus. There is a student I teach, on occasion, and he is ADHD++; he wont medicate, fine that's his choice, but the personal growth we've all seen is substantial. We all give him the talk, "You might be ADHD but that isn't an excuse, you need to do your best to control it. You'll have good and bad days..." He really likes working with me because I know how to work within the framework of ADHD. A trick I use is letting him talk to me while he works on techniques. I won't shut him up as long as he keeps on doing the form or technique, it is the perfect release valve; I've also suggested wiggling toes and making his tongue fidget in his mouth as a way to stay focused and quiet during a test. So far it is working. On a personal note I DO NOT WANT TO MEDICATE TODAY, always being ON ON ON is so loving tiring. Grumble.
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Jul 26, 2012 15:54
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OmNom posted:On a personal note I DO NOT WANT TO MEDICATE TODAY, always being ON ON ON is so loving tiring. Grumble. The little that I've taken ADD medz (some authorized: ritalin, some no: adderol) made me feel that way. I feel great when I'm doing XYZ but when I take a break to eat something I don't want to feel like I"m counting the sesame seeds on my bagel or poo poo.
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Jul 26, 2012 18:58
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Interstitial Abs posted:The little that I've taken ADD medz (some authorized: ritalin, some no: adderol) made me feel that way. Solution: Desoxyn.
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Jul 26, 2012 22:44
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Goddamn posted:Yeah samizdad that is definitely worth checking out, especially since it can be very hereditary - maybe if you mention your father it could help finding someone. I'm a woman too and got pulled through the anxiety/depression line for a while with it going nowhere. Once I got ADHD (Inattentive, maybe SCT) confirmed and treated, it went away - turned out, surprise surprise, I was anxious and depressed because I kept loving up/forgetting things/losing track of time all over the place. Also some awful doctor-brushed-off issues with staying up at night and then falling asleep all day - I found out later that ADHD meds also treat narcolepsy, and while I never confirmed if it's that, it sure got better. Awesome, I spoke to my therapist about it and we're going to look into it. I started looking around online and have been surprised by how many symptoms I match. I only knew of ADHD as a "hyperactive kid" problem (one of my cousins has it bad, she was exhausting to be around) and I've never been like that. My mind always feels like there's something going on, even if I can't always follow the thoughts. signalnoise posted:According to my psychs depression can be a symptom resulting from your ADHD loving you up, and that ADHD, depression, and anxiety go together like bacon lettuce and tomato. The bacon obviously is the most important part there. When I brought it up to my therapist, she told me basically this exact same thing!
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Jul 26, 2012 22:54
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samizdat posted:When I brought it up to my therapist, she told me basically this exact same thing! It's actually a very tricky situation medicinally speaking, because it can be tough to treat the ADHD with stimulants without exacerbating the anxiety. Your anxiety has to be cleared up with the ADHD or you're just going to end up running yourself ragged.
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Jul 26, 2012 22:59
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signalnoise posted:It's actually a very tricky situation medicinally speaking, because it can be tough to treat the ADHD with stimulants without exacerbating the anxiety. Your anxiety has to be cleared up with the ADHD or you're just going to end up running yourself ragged. My anxiety did get ramped up on the stimulants, but I had some good sessions with a therapist on anxiety, and it helped greatly. He also respected the 'no pills' approach I wanted to take with it, as I take enough medications for enough conditions that I didn't want to add a new one to the mix.
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Jul 26, 2012 23:23
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OmNom posted:On a personal note I DO NOT WANT TO MEDICATE TODAY, always being ON ON ON is so loving tiring. Grumble. Ha, I started meds recently, and this is how I'm feeling. I'm still on the lowest dose (getting prior authorization from the insurance is annoying so I can't afford the higher dosages) and it made a difference the first few days, but now I'm sort of back to being scatterbrained as usual, EXCEPT I'm still generally aware of everything that's been wrong in my adult life thus far. I doubled up yesterday (psychiatrist said I could, in lieu of the higher-dose pills) and it was much better - still strung out about the general state of my life and realizing all the poo poo that I need to be doing, but actually being productive. It felt good being able to answer that strung-out feeling by getting something done. I've noticed that on the meds, I'm constantly in a state of: - Oh poo poo there's so much stuff I need to take care of how did I not notice this before?? I'll try to go do at least some of it!Before, I'd have moments of lucidity where I'd wake up in a cold sweat or someshit and have a near anxiety attack: - OH gently caress OH gently caress I've forgotten to pay the power bill for three weeks the power is gonna get shut off and all our food is going to rot gently caress! Also I just realized I forgot to do a whole project at work gently caress!But then, not too long after that,  - Huh, I think there's something I should be concerned about... Hmm, can't think of it... Better continue on with my happy-go-lucky day of low productivity.I'd still take being ON and aware all the time (so I can know what to take care of) than have those alternating extremes of oblivion and bouts of nasty anxiety. I do want to take a holiday this weekend, though. So I can turn off AND to conserve meds until I get the insurance bullshit sorted out.
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Jul 26, 2012 23:56
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Interstitial Abs posted:The little that I've taken ADD medz (some authorized: ritalin, some no: adderol) made me feel that way. They do exacerbate for me the NOW impulse, not so much as in "Do everything now." or make rash decisions, that is much less of an impulse; but I can only frame it in a feeling of Task...DONE....NEXT...TASK...etc I run my own business by day, have a second job certain nights of the week, and I work with a non profit on the side, meds have made all of that much easier. I'm also burning the candle at both ends, so not being able to fully relax is a bitch. Obviously I'll take weekends off, or low priority weekdays. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How have any of you found the way you enjoy or experience sex change since medicating? I never knew I was bored to tears in spite of enjoying the hell out of myself, didn't know that was not normal. Being present during is kind of cool, I still suck at the cuddle though.
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Jul 27, 2012 00:35
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Ahh yeah I definitely have some minor issues with that. As I usually end up getting sexy at the end of the day, my meds have worn off and it's always a battle in my head to focus long enough to make sure both parties have an enjoyable time. I'm always like "Ok yeah thats right hey this feels pretty good umm wait did I lock my car oh hey I wonder if I paid my insurance that reminds me gotta go shopping in the morning OH WAIT I'm doing something here." I find it helps to try to get it on in the morning or midday if possible, after I've taken my meds. But even then my mind can wander sometimes. And in the medicated case, I definitely fail at the cuddling. Sex? Check. Next task please.
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Jul 27, 2012 13:44
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