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KosherNostra posted:Any L.A. comedy fans here or comedians? I do open-mics, haven't in a few months, but going to get back into it soon. I'm an LA comic, and I love open-mics. You should find me on Facebook, I'm probably going to be the first "Asterios" that pops up.
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Jul 11, 2012 01:48
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| # ? May 17, 2024 05:03 |
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Why not just post your whole name so I can look you up
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Jul 11, 2012 02:55
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http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/201...6283#f1dc9036dc
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Jul 11, 2012 05:06
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I really, truly, genuinely wish anyone else had reported on it. That woman somehow reports on all matters of comedians despite not having a single funny bone in her body. I'm not saying that necessarily makes her wrong on the matter either (although she neglects to update the story to reflect that Tosh apologized via twitter, which was unexpected by pretty much everyone and might undermine the point of her article), but she feels the need to weigh in on all matters of stand up comedians despite not having ever once shown to have any expertise or perspective in the field of stand-up comedy. I mean, for fucks sake, she wrote that hecklers were "a legitimate part of comedy performances" (she since crossed that out after people pointed out how mindbogglingly stupid of a statement it was, but it highlights how she has no actual, real-world perspective on standup). Oh also, she thinks that Louis CK supports his rape joke because he tweeted to Daniel that he thinks Tosh.0 is funny. She does this while ignoring the other story that Doug Stanhope literally supports his rape joke. In short, it's hard to say she's wrong, but gently caress Alyssa Rosenberg nonetheless. Space_Butler fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jul 11, 2012 |
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Jul 11, 2012 06:05
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Space_Butler posted:I really, truly, genuinely wish anyone else had reported on it. That woman somehow reports on all matters of comedians despite not having a single funny bone in her body. I'm not saying that necessarily makes her wrong on the matter either (although she neglects to update the story to reflect that Tosh apologized via twitter, which was unexpected by pretty much everyone and might undermine the point of her article), but she feels the need to weigh in on all matters of stand up comedians despite not having ever once shown to have any expertise or perspective in the field of stand-up comedy. I mean, for fucks sake, she wrote that hecklers were "a legitimate part of comedy performances" (she since crossed that out after people pointed out how mindbogglingly stupid of a statement it was, but it highlights how she has no actual, real-world perspective on standup). She doesn't need to be right for Tosh's actions to be wrong. e. VVV Whoops. Maarak fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Jul 11, 2012 |
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Jul 11, 2012 06:08
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Maarak posted:She doesn't need to be right for Tosh's actions to be wrong.
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Jul 11, 2012 06:10
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I remember Think Progress from a long while ago. Since when did it become this all encompassing site that has someone blog about entertainment stuff? What the hell? Also I'm of two minds about these things. I absolutely feel that comedians should get a lot of leeway. I've seen people I know and respect do some off colored joke or riff and it goes poorly and the audience doesn't buy it. There is tension in the air. I know that person isn't someone who genuinely endorses something as vulgar or awful as what they say, but if you're a stranger seeing a comedian go in to a dark or blue area then sometimes things don't go so well. But that's who poo poo goes. It does bother me that some comedians including Louis CK take this all encompassing statement of "it's just words" and don't let them bother you and they won't. That's fine when things are being expertly deconstructed and delivered in a funny manner. He can do that. Not everyone can and if someone is doing it in a lovely lazy way, then it just comes across as lazy and crass and stupid. That said, I'm still largely on the comedians side. They should get more leeway than if you're just two people at a dinner party and then one says something about how gang rape is funny. On the other hand as someone who has thought about this a decent amount, I think its always worth thinking about how people will feel. Not that saying something that could offend someone should stop you from doing it. But just think about how it might happen. I think about how Norm Macdonald talked about on WTF how he would never do a weekend update joke about a private citizen after he got a call from a persons father who died who he had mocked. In that general idea of thinking, I do think about if I'm writing a sketch or something if it really needs to be there or how funny it really is. Again. I think its a fine line and I'm not saying that all comedians should walk on egg shells. But if it isn't genuinely funny and all you have is shock, that can only take you so far.
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Jul 11, 2012 08:26
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It's also easy to maintain the "suck it up" opinion when you've been a privileged middle class white male your entire life and have no loving idea what it's like to not be at the top of the pyramid nor any desire to concede that you benefit from something as random as the circumstances of your conception. Like these people would be totally fine making fun of tea partiers for completely missing the point when it comes to Muslims or whatever then turn around and do pretty much the same exact thing. Comedians shouldn't be restrained from exploring any topic to find comedy. Unfortunately for Tosh just saying words like "rape" isn't jokes. There's a difference between "bad jokes" - such as most rape jokes - and "not a joke" - what Daniel Tosh was doing. And what TJ Miller accused Dane Cook of doing a while back. That's not art, that's not creativity. It's expression, sure, but you don't get to hide behind some lofty ideals when you're just being mean. And not only that, but even if you are making jokes, freedom of speech all day, but THE PEOPLE CALLING YOU A MORON AND FORCING YOU TO EXAMINE YOUR ACTIONS ALSO HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Performers wanna act like getting called out on bullshit is the same as censorship.
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Jul 11, 2012 09:02
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Basically Daniel Tosh made a woman feel physically threatened with an extremely unfunny and tasteless comment following some of what could generously be called questionable material. I guess good on him for apologizing, but there is no way to angle this to make it cool that he said that poo poo. Plus Tosh's comedy over the last couple years has been mean-spirited and generally offensive and he sucks.soggybagel posted:I remember Think Progress from a long while ago. Since when did it become this all encompassing site that has someone blog about entertainment stuff? What the hell? So your opinion is that you're largely on Tosh's side, but you don't like it when comedians like Louis C.K. say it's just words, but some of them can do it well, like Louis C.K., but they still need to think about how they make people feel, and in conclusion you can't have an act based entirely on shock. Do I have that right.
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Jul 11, 2012 11:21
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Aw, come on. I just read that as him being fair about it and saying that both sides have valid points and while he's generally on the side of comedians, he acknowledges that there is a fine line there. That's not unreasonable.
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Jul 11, 2012 11:58
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I'm normally on the side of the "It's just words" thing as well, but there's a pretty big difference between telling bad "rape jokes" and saying that it would be funny for a heckler to be raped right then and there. It really just should've ended with something along the lines of Tosh saying "Well, that's where you and I disagree." and moving on. Going out of his way to "attack" the woman was a dumb thing to do, and is completely indefensible.
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Jul 11, 2012 14:08
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SammyWhereAreYou posted:Aw, come on. I just read that as him being fair about it and saying that both sides have valid points and while he's generally on the side of comedians, he acknowledges that there is a fine line there. That's not unreasonable. Well you'll notice how you just said in two lines of text what it took him one million words to say, which is a start, but actually in this particular instance both sides do not have valid points. One of the sides is like, "it's okay to make jokes about rape because comedians need to have leeway in order to do their job, and this privilege may extend to making aggressive and violent statements toward a heckler, who can say really" and the other side is like, "no, what the gently caress, no." Tosh's actions demonstrate that he is a bad comedian who doesn't know how to toe that very fine line, but also doesn't know to therefore stay the gently caress away from it. And of course comedians get special privilege on what they can say. I was reading an interview with Louis C.K. earlier, where he was talking about why he says verboten poo poo on stage; he basically said that he says it because he thinks it warrants discussion, and he wants to get into why stuff is hurtful or dangerous, and if not that, he brings it in the other direction into the realm of absurdity. Class act, that guy. But he's a good comedian.
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Jul 11, 2012 14:55
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Little Blue Couch posted:Well you'll notice how you just said in two lines of text what it took him one million words to say, which is a start, but actually in this particular instance both sides do not have valid points. One of the sides is like, "it's okay to make jokes about rape because comedians need to have leeway in order to do their job, and this privilege may extend to making aggressive and violent statements toward a heckler, who can say really" and the other side is like, "no, what the gently caress, no." Tosh's actions demonstrate that he is a bad comedian who doesn't know how to toe that very fine line, but also doesn't know to therefore stay the gently caress away from it. This is just one instance, though. He does use a lot of that kind of joke in his act, but for the most part there's never been real mass outrage about it (aside from that one time it slipped into his TV show, but that's the difference between TV and live stand-up). There are plenty of comics that have had one bad night, and he obviously feels sorry, because he apologized about it.
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Jul 11, 2012 15:13
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I like comedy. I'm not a privileged middle class white male. Does that somehow make my opinion more valid in this pointless argument? Edit- being offended by anything at all that anyone says is stupid. Especially jokes. I mean that in any way possible as far as you want to take it. The second it crosses over to anything physical, then I'll join in on the hatred train. Ariza fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jul 11, 2012 |
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Jul 11, 2012 15:28
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Yoshifan823 posted:This is just one instance, though. He does use a lot of that kind of joke in his act, but for the most part there's never been real mass outrage about it (aside from that one time it slipped into his TV show, but that's the difference between TV and live stand-up). There are plenty of comics that have had one bad night, and he obviously feels sorry, because he apologized about it. I personally think he's an insufferable, offensive rear end in a top hat most of the time. That this all happened isn't even surprising; what he said would fit right into his TV show. People don't have to get outraged in order for his comedy to be awful. You can watch his standup specials starting with the first and he gets progressively more racist and misogynistic as they progress. Which is sad, cuz his earlier stuff was pretty funny. Of course on this particular point I guess it's just opinion, even though seriously he's pretty awful. Ariza posted:I like comedy. I'm not a privileged middle class white male. Does that somehow make my opinion more valid in this pointless argument? Pointless argument, what, this is the stand up comedy thread and we're talking about an actual thing that happened in stand up comedy
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Jul 11, 2012 15:53
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I just got pointed to this thread because I dared to say rape jokes were bad in the TVIV thread. I don't know what it is about rape jokes goons find so drat sacred that they feel the need to defend it, but it's easily the most popular backward opinion among idiot nerds
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Jul 11, 2012 16:42
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Clearly, you've never read a discussion here on "age of consent"
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Jul 11, 2012 17:02
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So.... Tosh.0 is probably gonna get canceled, huh
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Jul 11, 2012 17:41
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quadrophrenic posted:So.... Tosh.0 is probably gonna get canceled, huh Oh no what is Comedy Central going to run all day every day now? Better bust out those old copies of Silver Streak and Money Pit.
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Jul 11, 2012 17:43
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quadrophrenic posted:So.... Tosh.0 is probably gonna get canceled, huh There's no such thing as bad publicity. "Tosh.0? Didn't I hear something about him recently? Oh wow, this is like America's Funniest Home Videos, but for Youtube! Honey this is great come watch!"
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Jul 11, 2012 17:43
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quadrophrenic posted:So.... Tosh.0 is probably gonna get canceled, huh And before anyone jumps down my throat saying "how dare you say that defending rape victims is unreasonable", look at the broad picture. How does someone not look like a never-satisfied "complainer" when a guy apologized quickly and of his own volition with the only "coverage" being a tumblr post and a think progress blog post? They can't claim it was media pressure, they can't claim it was his bosses coming down on him doing damage control. Face it, this is an extremely clean apology pr-wise, and further attacks will only serve to hurt the anti-rape-culture crowd image from this point on, Accept the apology and move on until or unless he fucks up again. Salmon, the Wise Fish posted:I just got pointed to this thread because I dared to say rape jokes were bad in the TVIV thread. Space_Butler fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jul 11, 2012 |
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Jul 11, 2012 18:03
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Yeah this isn't like the Michael Richards thing at all; first and foremost, there is no video of it. Secondly, as lovely of a thing as it is, it does fit into Tosh's personality and I doubt his audience is going to be very offended by this. Thirdly, Tosh is as his peak of popularity, while Richards passed his 10 years prior.
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Jul 11, 2012 18:18
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JAMOOOL posted:Tosh is as his peak of popularity, while Richards passed his 10 years prior. I think this is a really good point. People had nothing to lose by going after Richards, so comedians and the industry could all really pile on. Tosh has an incredibly popular TV show and a gigantic fan base. I think it's just gonna go away. But also, nobody expected Kramer to repeatedly yell the n-word, and people expect disgusting stuff out of Tosh. Nobody's going to be shocked that this happened.
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Jul 11, 2012 18:43
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It wasn't a cop-out "if I offended anyone I'm sorry" apology either. I tend to give people a lot of leeway when they say something they think is going to be funny, offend people with it, then later realize their mistake and apologise. Being funny is hard. "wouldn't it be funny if [audience member] got raped by five guys right now" is a pretty terrible quote to have attributed to you. Then again out of context "being white is clearly better" would be terrible, too.
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Jul 11, 2012 19:23
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DannoMack posted:"wouldn't it be funny if [audience member] got raped by five guys right now" is a pretty terrible quote to have attributed to you. Then again out of context "being white is clearly better" would be terrible, too. I'm not sure about this; dumb as it is, it's kind of hard to argue against the second one
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Jul 11, 2012 19:36
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JAMOOOL posted:I'm not sure about this; dumb as it is, it's kind of hard to argue against the second one Those things are pretty different. One is a joke about white privilege another is calling for your audience member to be raped. Sure you can take "being white is clearly better" out of context but in context the rape comment is still pretty loving terrible.
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Jul 11, 2012 19:40
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I do agree with that.
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Jul 11, 2012 19:45
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I don't get the controversy. I really don't. When someone yells out during a comedian's set why does the comedian have to be careful about how to handle it? If a woman heckled Bill Hicks his rants were blatantly misogynistic (I'm pretty sure he screeched at a woman to go kill herself). George Carlin yelled at someone that he hoped their kid dies in a car fire. Hell, in the first season of Louie there's a whole scene where he makes fun of a woman's "dead oval office mother" and then wishes she would get AIDS. So what makes rape a special case? What makes a rape joke more taboo than wishing death on someone? Honestly, it's words. It's loving words. It's actions or intent that are the really problems. When a comedian is being shocking in order to handle someone yelling poo poo out, man or woman, what does it matter what is said?
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Jul 11, 2012 21:52
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Only a child thinks words don't matter.
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Jul 11, 2012 22:03
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Fine. But again, I've heard comedians threaten people's lives. I'm sure Tosh is not the first, nor the last, person to make rape jokes at a heckler. What makes this a special case?
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Jul 11, 2012 22:06
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There's a small update to the story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/10/daniel-tosh-rape-joke-laugh-factory_n_1662882.html?utm_hp_ref=entertainment&ir=Entertainment Though the owner of the Laugh Factory "didn't really hear it properly," it seems that Tosh's joke may have been slightly different, and the women didn't leave until AFTER the show was done and not right away as she said in the blog.
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Jul 11, 2012 22:09
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HateTheInternet posted:Fine. But again, I've heard comedians threaten people's lives. I'm sure Tosh is not the first, nor the last, person to make rape jokes at a heckler. What makes this a special case? Well, it's a special case because Tosh is huge right now, and I feel like "you should be raped" is kind of overreaching the stuff that even Bill Hicks would say (even though Hicks doesn't come off well when he does this stuff either). It's closer to the Michael Richards thing, surely you see how that's different than your other examples?
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Jul 11, 2012 22:11
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Also this is probably not going to be a big deal in a couple weeks' time. Most of the cases you mentioned aren't very defensible either.
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Jul 11, 2012 22:12
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Space_Butler posted:Maybe im reading your statement far too literally, but stop being so loving melodramatic. I pointed you to this thread because the level of discourse here is usually far higher than the bros high-fiving each other while live posting about how funny a video of balls was. I thought if you honestly wanted to partake in a genuine discussion about the subject, this thread would serve you far better than fighting an echo chamber. If I was wrong, feel free to leave, but I did not point you here "because you dared" to do anything. He didn't want to have a geniuine discussion, he just wanted to come into the tosh.0 thread and poo poo it up with a massive derail. And now it's closed, thanks for making this forum a even worse place Salmon.
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Jul 11, 2012 22:50
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Is Tosh seriously a big thing in comedy right now? 
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Jul 11, 2012 23:00
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His shows sell out in minutes. His TV show is CC's #1 rated show. He's not quite at Chappelle levels but outside of Louie C.K. who's bigger than him right now?
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Jul 11, 2012 23:04
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I'd actually argue that Tosh is even bigger than Louis C.K. right now. Stewart and Colbert are definitely the biggest names in comedy, but as far as stand-up goes I don't think anyone's beating Tosh these days. Patton Oswalt maybe.
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Jul 11, 2012 23:48
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antavila posted:There's a small update to the story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/10/daniel-tosh-rape-joke-laugh-factory_n_1662882.html?utm_hp_ref=entertainment&ir=Entertainment Edit: Also I really hope all these people saying they're no longer fans of Patton, Louis, etc actually stick to their words and stop seeing them in person so I can have a better shot at getting tickets. Oh and also because it means they're not just a bunch of disingenuous e-commenters who never follow through on their internet threats. Space_Butler fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 00:21
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I don't have much to say on the issue, other than I don't get offended by any jokes. Jokes are not meant to be malicious. Tosh's response wasn't particularly funny, but it didn't bother me either. Rape jokes are not endorsements of rape. Being anti-rape jokes seems to me an endorsement of censorship, though. But I think these should be included for fodder in the discussion: Patrice O'Neal talking about rape jokes on Fox News: http://www.boreme.com/posting.php?id=33772&vote=up&comment_id=223471 Anthony Jeselnik: The world is full of horrible things that will eventually get you and everything you care about. Laughter is a universal way to lift your head up and say: ‘Not today, you bastards.’
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Jul 12, 2012 00:39
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escape artist posted:Being anti-rape jokes seems to me an endorsement of censorship, though. Well you seem to be an idiot, then.
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Jul 12, 2012 00:53
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