|
Convex posted:I paid £37 for the id Super Pack a few years back and don't regret it for a minute Oh absolutely, same, I bought it the moment the thing was announced at that Quakecon with an audible 'what the gently caress!'
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2012 23:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 19:45 |
|
|
JackMackerel posted:Are there any good 'vanilla' .wads besides Scythe/Alien Vendetta/TNT that are recommended?
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 00:04
|
|
|
JackMackerel posted:Are there any good 'vanilla' .wads besides Scythe/Alien Vendetta/TNT that are recommended? Memento Mori Memento Mori II Requiem Hell Revealed Hell Revealed II The Darkening I and II Those are some of the great classic Doom II megawads out there but there's plenty of other great newer ones still being put out including the Community Chest series, Plutonia 2, New Doom Community Project, etc.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 03:30
|
|
|
Is it me, or is it absolutely astounding that Doom and Blood and other classic FPS games have no real match in modern FPS gaming. The style, the speed, the strategic elements of health and ammunition. A lot of the core FPS elements have seemingly devolved and the method of handling difficulty has become more and more lazy. In the old days some games DID just tweak variables to make enemies hit harder and your guns do less damage, but a lot of games also put in more or more difficult enemies, removed items and in some cases giving enemies extra moves or letting them use their better moves more often. It seems that these days while I can find a hard FPS like STALKER (which kind of isn't what I'm talking about), it seems like the run and gun shooter genre has kind of waned and devolved into easier casual gaming. Difficulties are lazily implemented now just giving you less time to find cover. You never manage health anymore because health kits don't exist and a little time away from combat heals all wounds and your choice of weapons is always handed to you on a silver platter with tons of ammunition or new weapons dropping with each kill. There's less emphasis on choosing the right weapon and awareness of your surroundings, less exploration. It all seems more distilled and without those hiccups and decisions and Pyrrhic victories. Like all the flavor and hard edges were taken out. According to the publishers it comes down to which they think you'd be more interested in I guess: chocolate flavored glass or bland sludge.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 04:22
|
|
|
So I just made the mistake of taking the secret exit out of E2M5...straight into the Fortress of Mystery. With 39 health, a shotgun with 30 rounds left, and maybe 20 armor. No matter how fast I ran, the Barons were eating me for lunch with one attack every single time. I love this game. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 04:53
|
|
|
Did anyone ever play MARATHON: RED? http://bighouse.bungie.org/red/aug00.html Infinity got released in 1996 and I didn't play RED until 2000, but it must have taken years to put it together. It had a whole new story with new weapons, enemies, and storyline.  It was really hard and some of the audio was super annoying, but it felt like a whole new game, much more so than EVIL (also cool). Even if you don't feel like playing the game, you should check out the twelve year old info site. It's redolent with youthful exuberance and misspellings.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 06:34
|
|
|
Octal posted:Is it me, or is it absolutely astounding that Doom and Blood and other classic FPS games have no real match in modern FPS gaming. What I really want to see is some of the guys from the very beginning just up and announce they're going to make a back to the roots kind of shooter. Despite having given us Daikatana, I think John Romero still knows what he's doing. Get him in a room with some of the other old developers like John Carmack, Tom Hall, or heck, even some of the guys who worked at 3D Realms before they pretty much stopped making games. But then again, something really and truly in the spirit of Doom or Duke Nukem 3D or Quake would probably bomb in today's market, because you'd have angry tweens screaming about how the game's impossible because your health doesn't magically regenerate and there's no button to hide behind a box while your enemies do the same.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 07:02
|
|
|
Chinese Tony Danza posted:What I really want to see is some of the guys from the very beginning just up and announce they're going to make a back to the roots kind of shooter. Despite having given us Daikatana, I think John Romero still knows what he's doing. Get him in a room with some of the other old developers like John Carmack, Tom Hall, or heck, even some of the guys who worked at 3D Realms before they pretty much stopped making games. I don't think Romero and Carmack are on speaking terms nowadays, which is a crying shame since they covered each other's flaws pretty drat well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 07:50
|
|
|
The Kins posted:I don't think Romero and Carmack are on speaking terms nowadays, which is a crying shame since they covered each other's flaws pretty drat well. Either way, bitches gotta get over it. For the good of video games!!
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 08:00
|
|
|
Chinese Tony Danza posted:Yeah, that was what I'd last heard. Why is that? That's the part I've never seen explained. They're Lennon and McCartney. (And I guess Daikatana was to John Romero's career what Mark David Chapman was to Lennon's)
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 08:33
|
|
|
Chinese Tony Danza posted:The worst thing is that every single attempt to create an "oldschool" FPS that I've ever seen, no matter whether it's by a big studio or an independent group, has basically failed completely on every level to really nail that feeling. Hard Reset was a title that billed itself that way, and it was basically a sci-fi Call of Duty that somebody slapped a coat of "oldschool" paint over. Like, you could tell they were at least trying to make you feel that way, but it just didn't work at all. Could be worse. Could be Dark Salvation.  Jumping puzzles! Over lava! And insta-death spikes! And a lovely, lovely save system that drops you back at the very beginning of the level! And long, long levels! With death around every corner because, as mentioned, insta-death pits and lava! I've had it for two years and still haven't beaten the first level. The game is 'pound nails through my dick because that's several magnitudes more fun that playing this poo poo' bad. My only consolation is that I won a free copy in a contest, rather than paying for it myself. It's still not worth it. But it looks nice!
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 09:28
|
|
|
Chinese Tony Danza posted:The worst thing is that every single attempt to create an "oldschool" FPS that I've ever seen, no matter whether it's by a big studio or an independent group, has basically failed completely on every level to really nail that feeling. Hard Reset was a title that billed itself that way, and it was basically a sci-fi Call of Duty that somebody slapped a coat of "oldschool" paint over. Like, you could tell they were at least trying to make you feel that way, but it just didn't work at all. I think the Serious Sam series stands up pretty well, as does the original Painkiller.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 09:35
|
|
|
BBQ Dave posted:Did anyone ever play MARATHON: RED? RED was (and still is, I suppose) the most unfair, poorly designed game I think I've ever played. Even on the easier difficulties, there are so many cheap and idiotic tricks that I would have broken the disc the game came on if it came on one. But it was such a cool idea
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 14:06
|
|
|
Rather Dashing posted:I think the Serious Sam series stands up pretty well, as does the original Painkiller. Painkiller holds up pretty well in terms of any individual fight, but the levels are more linear sequences of arena battles than the nonlinear interconnectedness you find in a lot of Doom, Marathon, and Descent maps. Still fun as hell, though. Serious Sam had the same linearity problem coupled with a lack of ammo and bullet-spongy enemies and I've never finished First or Second Encounter because of it.  BBQ Dave posted:Did anyone ever play MARATHON: RED? I have, but never finished it (for pretty much the reasons listed above), and overall I preferred Rubicon and Excalibur. It's really quite interesting how many full-length, high-quality TCs there are for Marathon, though. ToxicFrog fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Jul 11, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 15:20
|
|
|
painkiller's better than most of the actual games from the "old school era", shame about the boring level design & lovely netcode serious sam's more of 1st person bullet hell shooter
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 19:16
|
|
|
Paul Pot posted:painkiller's better than most of the actual games from the "old school era", shame about the boring level design & lovely netcode It really isn't. The ultra linearity absolutely ruins what could be a fun game, but it's just arena after arena after arena.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 19:46
|
|
|
Everybody hates on hunting for switches and keycards, but I actually think those elements made for infinitely better level design back in the old days, and I wonder why developers won't take a step back and abandon that boring linear corridor shooter design for more interesting levels. I love how most levels in Duke3D and Doom are these kind of big playgrounds and sometimes the end of the level is right in front of your eyes, but the way to get there is something you need to figure out for yourself. I don't know. I still think Duke3D had the best level design in an egoshooter ever, and Doom is just so simple and elegant and fast in it's pacing, it's a ton of fun. Ah, I miss the old days.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 21:15
|
|
|
Gamers have this thing where they love to criticize evolution and idolize creativity, so games that don't necessarily revolutionize concepts that were solid to begin with take flak for it. This is a really, really stupid attitude, and if you look over the game landscape, it's very apparent why this is so. When you have something that isn't just good, it's great, you don't toss it out the loving window so you can do something new and clever (and untested, and uniterated, and unplayed by real players). Blizzard understands this to a great degree, as does Valve, but gamers don't, and reviewers definitely don't, and since bullshit like Metacritic scores still influence publishers, this influences developers. It's a bit like throwing Football, Soccer, Baseball, Tennis, and Basketball out the window and introducing Basesoccer because it's ~new~, instead of improving on what is already there. Which isn't to say that innovation is bad, it's cool when someone stumbles across something new and fun (see: rts mods becoming entire genres with dota and tds), but it can be frustrating when something old and fun gets dropped for... not really any good reason at all, as it the case with modern fps design. A big issue with fps games is the demands of asset creation set a pretty high bar for any indie effort (name the last five indie fps games?), and any devs doing triple A are chasing bullshit like Halo, BF3 and CoD, which is fine if you love that style of game, but sucks a lot otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 21:30
|
|
|
Oenis posted:Everybody hates on hunting for switches and keycards, but I actually think those elements made for infinitely better level design back in the old days, and I wonder why developers won't take a step back and abandon that boring linear corridor shooter design for more interesting levels. I love how most levels in Duke3D and Doom are these kind of big playgrounds and sometimes the end of the level is right in front of your eyes, but the way to get there is something you need to figure out for yourself. I don't know. I still think Duke3D had the best level design in an egoshooter ever, and Doom is just so simple and elegant and fast in it's pacing, it's a ton of fun. Ah, I miss the old days. Theres too much money at stake Don't want to get to far into it but, it has to do with the gigantic new generation of gamers and how gaming is more widely accepted then it was back in the day Thats not the whole of it, but its a good chunk as too why newer Fps games are less intuitive, require less thinking, and have very boring level designs
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 21:30
|
|
|
Echoing the above statement, Serious Sam FE & SE (HD edition or not) are much closer to first person bullet hell games than actual old school FPS games. Makes a bit more sense in that context, given that there is very little verticality to any of the maps (at least in the First Encounter and the early levels of the Second Encounter). No idea if Serious Sam 2 is any good game play wise, although I have not heard a lot of good things. I hated Serious Sam 3: BFE. Making the first 2 hours of game play out of an approximately 10 hour game a boring slog in order to parody games like Call of Duty was an idiotic design choice, and even then, it doesn't really get much better. Hit scan enemies were way too plentiful, and a lot of enemies were simply not fun to engage in combat with (I'm looking at you demon monkeys ). It looked nice though!Painkiller got boring for me very quickly due to the repetitiveness of the stages (get locked into arena, kill dudes, move forward to new arena, get locked into arena, rinse & repeat). The enemies were also not that satisfying to kill, but that comes down more to personal taste than anything else. Doctor Shitfaced fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Jul 12, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 22:35
|
|
|
Which FPSes would you say had the best combinations of level exploration, variety and sheer gameplay? I almost want to say the original Halo & Goldeneye but I have a hunch I would be crucified for picking those two. Obviously the early Dooms and Quakes nailed it as well but for some reason I find it really hard to think of more. The original Unreal is a solid candidate.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 22:41
|
|
|
Something that Painkiller did get right was making the most out of its five(?) weapons. All of them had useful primary and alternate fires and a curious "third" fire-mode that involved combining both primary and alternate fires. It was never as simple as mashing a third button, though. For example, you could lob an explosive with the stakegun and then pin it in midair with a stake, turning it into a fast, penetrating rocket. With enough practice, using the techniques became second nature, and were intensely satisfying.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 22:48
|
|
|
Zedsdeadbaby posted:Which FPSes would you say had the best combinations of level exploration, variety and sheer gameplay? I almost want to say the original Halo & Goldeneye but I have a hunch I would be crucified for picking those two. Obviously the early Dooms and Quakes nailed it as well but for some reason I find it really hard to think of more. The original Unreal is a solid candidate.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 23:11
|
|
|
I think a lot of the newer fangled FPS game staples is a mix of them not wanting to risk money on trying new(or old) things, and the generation playing games now just wouldn't get the style of games like doom and quake and duke3d anymore. They seem to cater more to the type of person who gets home from work, or classes, or whatever and just wants to plop down on their couch and shoot some virtual mans without thinking too much about it. Ammo and health management, and trick movements and all of the other things that made older shooters fast and visceral just arent appealing to most people that like their halos and call of duties.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 23:31
|
|
Zedsdeadbaby posted:Which FPSes would you say had the best combinations of level exploration, variety and sheer gameplay? I almost want to say the original Halo & Goldeneye but I have a hunch I would be crucified for picking those two. Obviously the early Dooms and Quakes nailed it as well but for some reason I find it really hard to think of more. The original Unreal is a solid candidate. If we're just talking about FPS's, I'd say UT99. If we're talking about singleplayer FPS's, I'd say something like Farcry, since Doom, Quake, and Unreal were already mentioned. You have a nice selection of weapons, aren't simply fighting human opponents (although the non-human opponents could be sort of a drag), and the sandbox approach to most of the levels meant that it was anything but a corridor shooter.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2012 23:31
|
|
|
I absolutely adored the first half of Bioshock. It had so much going for it. Exploration, non-linear level layouts, the monsters are still new, and all of the unique concepts of the game (Plasmids!!) are still worth using. Then the back half of the game is a linear slogfest with repetitive battles and plasmids and all the cool weapons became useless in comparison to like the shotgun and the wrench. And it all just got so drat easy. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2012 03:25
|
|
RyokoTK posted:I absolutely adored the first half of Bioshock. It had so much going for it. Exploration, non-linear level layouts, the monsters are still new, and all of the unique concepts of the game (Plasmids!!) are still worth using. Bioshock ends at the reveal, and the last portion is filler formed by mechanically separated FPS parts mixed with agar and cornstarch as a thickening agent.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2012 03:40
|
|
|
RyokoTK posted:I absolutely adored the first half of Bioshock. It had so much going for it. Exploration, non-linear level layouts, the monsters are still new, and all of the unique concepts of the game (Plasmids!!) are still worth using. Although I agree with you on the difficulty of the game, I did have a blast doing a wrench-only run on hard with vita-chambers off.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2012 03:44
|
|
|
NovaPolice posted:Bioshock ends at the reveal I've never thought of it like that, but it basically does. The drop in quality after the reveal is precipitous. Almost immediately, the game starts being terrible. It's most apparent because the same enemies you've been fighting have something like triple the HP they used to. So, you can spray a hundred and fifty Thompson rounds at them, or you can stack up on wrench passive plasmids and two-shot everyone with it. It sucks. Bioshock 2 was super-linear, but it was so much more fun to me in this regard -- instead of having arbitrarily tougher enemies, it just had more of them. And the guns were badass.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2012 03:56
|
|
|
Cephalectomy posted:I think a lot of the newer fangled FPS game staples is a mix of them not wanting to risk money on trying new(or old) things, and the generation playing games now just wouldn't get the style of games like doom and quake and duke3d anymore. They seem to cater more to the type of person who gets home from work, or classes, or whatever and just wants to plop down on their couch and shoot some virtual mans without thinking too much about it. Ammo and health management, and trick movements and all of the other things that made older shooters fast and visceral just arent appealing to most people that like their halos and call of duties. Well, also trick movement and super-fast pacing, two of the hallmarks of the Doom school of FPSs, are pretty hard to pull off with a controller (at least using the conventional two sticks method). A lot of modern FPSs seem to aspire towards the "interactive movie" or, for the multiplayer component, repetitive pinball school of gaming instead of something like Doom, which is basically a side-scrolling shooter seen from on end.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2012 04:12
|
|
|
Has anyone played Powerslave (Exhumed) much? I tried the PC version a few years back and found it too clunky. But recently I've been playing the PSX version on my PSP and have been loving it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2012 04:19
|
|
Vakal posted:Has anyone played Powerslave (Exhumed) much? Powerslave/Exhumed is really weird, in that the console and PC versions of it are significantly different. Wikipedia has a good synopsis, but basically the PC Powerslave is a Build engine game with the typical features and progression, while the Saturn and PSX versions are on Lobotomy Software's proprietary SlaveDriver engine (which was also used for the Sega Saturn ports of Quake and Duke Nukem 3D) and have a non-linear hub world and persistent items like Metroid Prime or Strife or (sorta) Hexen. The PC version of Powerslave is an unusual FPS case where the PC version is the crappy cut-down port.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2012 04:50
|
|
|
I picked up UT99 when I bought the DOOM pack as well, and after a couple days of UT and Brutal Doom/Doom 2, I...I can't play TF2 or Doom 3 for longer than a few minutes. They just feel boring, especially TF2 after running around in UT with a nuclear missile in my hands. Classic FPSes, you have ruined me!
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2012 05:09
|
|
|
Vakal posted:Has anyone played Powerslave (Exhumed) much? My problem with the PC version is the strafing speed. The Anubis-things could shoot at you from across the map and if you started strafing then, it owuld still hit you.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2012 06:10
|
|
|
gently caress MAP08 with a passion. gently caress it, gently caress it, gently caress it. Even with the BFG, max energy ammo, and invuln powerups, I STILL died to the barons and cyberdemon like 12 times before I managed to limp away. Who designed that piece of poo poo?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2012 13:35
|
|
|
D34THROW posted:gently caress MAP08 with a passion. gently caress it, gently caress it, gently caress it. Even with the BFG, max energy ammo, and invuln powerups, I STILL died to the barons and cyberdemon like 12 times before I managed to limp away. Who designed that piece of poo poo? Infighting is your friend. The Cyberdemon will fire rockets at you, but hit the Barons instead. The barons will go to town on the Cyberdemon and ignore you completely. The end result is a severely weakened Cyberdemon or 2-3 Barons. If you can't handle either of those outcomes with an invulnerability pickup, I'm amazed you've made it to MAP08 at all.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2012 14:09
|
|
|
Walk into the room, don't grab the Invincibility, and don't fire a shot. Let the Cybie try to shoot at you, and it will hit the Barons instead. If you haven't shot them first, they'll fight him instead. At that point you can just duck out of the room and let them murder each other. Then you can come back later, scoop up the Invincibility, run past whoever's left, grab the key, and continue on.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2012 15:05
|
|
|
Cephalectomy posted:I think a lot of the newer fangled FPS game staples is a mix of them not wanting to risk money on trying new(or old) things, and the generation playing games now just wouldn't get the style of games like doom and quake and duke3d anymore. They seem to cater more to the type of person who gets home from work, or classes, or whatever and just wants to plop down on their couch and shoot some virtual mans without thinking too much about it. Ammo and health management, and trick movements and all of the other things that made older shooters fast and visceral just arent appealing to most people that like their halos and call of duties. I never thought I would see the day when Doom, Quake, and Duke 3d would be said to require "thinking" and "management" but here we are and I unfortunately can't disagree with you. Those used to be the games I'd play when I wanted to turn my brain off and just blast some guys, as opposed to more cerebral genres like RPGs, sims, and strategy games. But I guess game designers have come a long way since then in perfecting the process of making mindless FPSs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2012 15:41
|
|
|
Kakumei posted:It really isn't. The ultra linearity absolutely ruins what could be a fun game, but it's just arena after arena after arena. Good movement & weapons makes for a better game than the 2nd tier old school games can hope to be (i.e. most of the build engine games and stuff like Quake missions packs). I can understand why someone wouldn't enjoy Painkiller, but it's easy to forget that most 90s games were turds.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2012 15:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 19:45 |
|
|
NovaPolice posted:Powerslave/Exhumed is really weird, in that the console and PC versions of it are significantly different. Wikipedia has a good synopsis, but basically the PC Powerslave is a Build engine game with the typical features and progression, while the Saturn and PSX versions are on Lobotomy Software's proprietary SlaveDriver engine (which was also used for the Sega Saturn ports of Quake and Duke Nukem 3D) and have a non-linear hub world and persistent items like Metroid Prime or Strife or (sorta) Hexen. The PC version of Powerslave is an unusual FPS case where the PC version is the crappy cut-down port. That's really strange. Welp that explains a lot of things I guess. RyokoTK posted:Bioshock 2 was super-linear, but it was so much more fun to me in this regard -- instead of having arbitrarily tougher enemies, it just had more of them. And the guns were badass. Yeah I loved the combat in Bioshock 2.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2012 16:00
|
|
