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indigi posted:Well you seem to be an idiot, then.  Don't do this. Don't post a one line insult and leave it at that. At the very least elaborate WHY you think he's an idiot so he and other posters have something to keep the discussion going with, instead of having to deal with the brake slamming of a post you just made. Otherwise you may as well just PM him "gently caress you" and let that be that.
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Jul 12, 2012 01:01
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This seems like a continuation of a trend. Go on the internet and get "outraged" (Patton, Cook, Morgan) give as little info as possible and straight up lie for internet fame. She just comes off like the latest in a developing line of attention whores complaining about comedians. I'm not even a fan of Tosh but her saying "I did this because even though being "disruptive" is against my nature, I felt that sitting there and saying nothing, or leaving quietly, would have been against my values as a person and as a woman." then whining to the internet that Tosh upset her? Yes you're an attention whore it's exactly your nature to do be disruptive. You bitched at Tosh for attention and you went to the internet for more. I can't wait for the next person to get butthurt about a joke. I'll put my money on someone going after Louis C.K. next because why the hell not.
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Jul 12, 2012 01:07
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Thinking that rape jokes aren't ok, much like thinking what Michael Richards did wasn't ok, isn't equivalent to advocating censorship. A few people may do both, but one doesn't entail the other. This isn't a discussion about freedom of speech and the suppression of art because I haven't seen a single person advocate for a constitutional amendment barring bits that include rape from comedy clubs. That really shouldn't need to be explained, and even though I'm now doing so, guaranteed he still won't comprehend this basic fact.
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Jul 12, 2012 01:08
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indigi posted:Thinking that rape jokes aren't ok, much like thinking what Michael Richards did wasn't ok, isn't equivalent to advocating censorship. A few people may do both, but one doesn't entail the other. This isn't a discussion about freedom of speech and the suppression of art because I haven't seen a single person advocate for a constitutional amendment barring bits that include rape from comedy clubs. That really shouldn't need to be explained, and even though I'm now doing so, guaranteed he still won't comprehend this basic fact. Edit: Whoops, realized my quick googling resulted in me linking to the response article by Dave Anthony. Oh well, it was a funny read anyway. I also still feel that, I don't care how offended a human being is, both the comedian and the audience flat out don't give a poo poo and don't want them disrupting a set for it. Take the disgust and leave. By all means, they can blog about it as their chosen outlet of outrage, but it's disruptive to literally everyone else in the room. If the joke or topic is that bad that many people feel this way, it'll bomb and the comedian will just fail on his own. But there's really no excuse for causing a scene. It's not going to change anyone's mind in the room. If anything, it'll make people hate the heckler and their opinions further, whereas before maybe over time as some members of the audience reflect on it they might realize what a hosed up thing they were laughing at. Anything's possible. I'm tired of this idea that everyone's opinions need to be heard at all times in all venues. No they loving don't. If you don't like a movie, leave. Don't make a loving scene yelling about how lovely it is. If you don't enjoy a comedian or they offend you, just go. Heckling has been around for decades, but I think it's been bolstered by people thinking their opinions are worth more due to social media's rise in popularity. Unless the ticket you pay for says anything about a Q&A or open discussion, no matter how vile or offensively unfunny it gets, shut the gently caress up or leave. Anything else is a violation of the social contract that most people abide by. Space_Butler fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 01:12
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Space_Butler posted:I also still feel that, I don't care how offended a human being is, both the comedian and the audience flat out don't give a poo poo and don't want them disrupting a set for it. But there's really no excuse for causing a scene. Practically nobody rushed to the defense of Michael Richards for doing, quite frankly, a less intense version of what Tosh pulled. Cause he used the word "friend of the family." Nobody in the audience for Richards' show, hecklers and non-heckling crowd members alike, felt threatened. He didn't say "wouldn't it be great if it were 1924 and we could just kill these niggers?" and if he had the backlash would have been 100x worse. What Richards did was much more of a joke than anything that's been reported on the Tosh situation. I don't remember comedians coming out of the woodwork shouting about freedom of speech and censorship and all that. In that case they all seemed to recognize a simple truth: you do something dumb, you do something offensive, you're going to get called out on it. I don't know why there's the sudden impulse in the comedy community to reframe the argument as censorship vs. freedom of speech vs. oh you're just so sensitive, other than that on a scale of "the" to "friend of the family" rape just doesn't rate that highly. indigi fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 01:29
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Space_Butler posted:Still, the fact you put actual sentences that people can look at and respond to is a lot better than something that amounts to a public pm. In discussions like these, there's no such things as "things that shouldn't need to be explained". It shouldn't need to be explained that you don't talk or film poo poo during a set and yet that was a huge thing just a few months ago. Yeah, she was wrong for interrupting the show. The question is where you draw the line when a comedian pounds a heckler. The same line of upset super duper tough guy harsh talk in your post can apply to the Kramer situation
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Jul 12, 2012 01:31
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escape artist posted:Rape jokes are not endorsements of rape. I haven't read most of the rest of this discussion, so I don't know if this has already been said, but you should do a little digging into this rabbit hole. On the face of it, yes, "it's just a joke." But if the nature of the joke is to make the act of rape--or, more specifically, being raped--into something to be laughed at, then what is that really doing? It's not an endorsement, but it necessarily marginalizes a specific set of innocent people, and if you continue down that road you can really hurt someone. This isn't to say that you cannot mention rape in comedy ever, but rape being one of the absolute worst things that exists, care should be taken to make sure your comedy does not reinforce it as an acceptable thing in any way. PS. poop and pee and fart. okay now I feel better
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Jul 12, 2012 01:37
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Yeah, not enough people are pointing out that "wouldn't it be great if five dudes came in and raped them" simply isn't funny or clever. You don't get a "comedy! art!!" pass for everything you say just cause you're a comedian.
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Jul 12, 2012 01:42
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CommunistMojo posted:I can't wait for the next person to get butthurt about a joke. I'll put my money on someone going after Louis C.K. next because why the hell not. It already did happen to him, and it inspired an episode on his show. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3489860#post404678207
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Jul 12, 2012 02:06
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indigi posted:This is simply inaccurate. If you've never seen an audience go from nervous laughter/silence to chasing an act off stage cause one person spoke up, I don't know what to tell you. This obviously wasn't one of those cases. As far as your bringing up of Michael Richards, the BIG difference you're failing to recognize between that incident and the Daniel Tosh incident is the amount of evidence involved. Everyone had irrefutable proof of what Richards said. What irrefutable proof does anyone have for what went down at Tosh's set? The chick says one thing, Tosh says his comments were "taken out of context and misquoted", the club owner is saying something entirely different was said... it's ALL hearsay. All we know is that Daniel said SOMETHING about rape in the form of a joke. That's why it's been far easier for comedians to come to his defense and give him post-apology support (emphasis on the "post-apology" part, which a lot of people are STILL acting like it didn't happen or may as well not have happened). If you can't see the difference, I don't know what to tell YOU. Space_Butler fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 02:15
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indigi posted:Well you seem to be an idiot, then. I guarantee you will find much more despicable poo poo in those books than you will in a Daniel Tosh stand-up set. Also, you seem to have ignored every other point I made, nor did you even give a reason for your disagreement.
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Jul 12, 2012 02:35
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Space_Butler, thank you for articulating the things that I don't have the inclination, patience, or intelligence to do. indigi posted:Practically nobody rushed to the defense of Michael Richards for doing, quite frankly, a less intense version of what Tosh pulled. Cause he used the word "friend of the family." Nobody in the audience for Richards' show, hecklers and non-heckling crowd members alike, felt threatened. He didn't say "wouldn't it be great if it were 1924 and we could just kill these niggers?" and if he had the backlash would have been 100x worse. What Richards did was much more of a joke than anything that's been reported on the Tosh situation. I don't remember comedians coming out of the woodwork shouting about freedom of speech and censorship and all that. I find what Richards did to be way, way worse than what Tosh did. Tosh made a joke. Richards made a personal attack. I don't think what Tosh did was funny, but there's no way you can say he wanted her to get raped right there. Have you seen the episode of Louie where the lady heckles him and he says "I hope your oval office mother dies." That was a joke. It was funny. A lot of people laughed. Another difference between Tosh and Richards is: the audience's reaction. People got up and left, and Richards was shamed to the point where he had to leave the stage before his set finished. Like Space_Butler says, if a joke is offensive, or unfunny, then the absence of laughter is what is called for. If it's truly horrific, like what Richards did, then people will get up and leave in droves. escape artist fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 02:40
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Space_Butler posted:I also still feel that, I don't care how offended a human being is, both the comedian and the audience flat out don't give a poo poo and don't want them disrupting a set for it. Take the disgust and leave. I think in joking about rape, Tosh was being provocative. He provoked someone into saying something. Nobody should be surprised that someone yelled about being offended during a set about rape jokes.
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Jul 12, 2012 02:43
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Mst3kmann posted:It already did happen to him, and it inspired an episode on his show. poo poo I remember that episode now. It's just beyond stupid how transparent this bullshit is. I'm surprised (I shouldn't be) so many people are taking this seriously; it's the latest trend in attention whoring. It's like a goddamn game of Clue. Zach Galifianakis offends a lesbian at the comedy central stage with an anal sex joke.
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Jul 12, 2012 02:44
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Here's just an anecdote about another offensive joke and how a comedian handled it: taken from another forum, because I couldn't find the actual bit to transcribe it myself: quote:Anthony [Jeselnik] tells a joke about suicide, only to be met by a dead silence in the crowd before a gentleman stands up and says "Great Barrington is the suicide capital of the country, that's not funny."
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Jul 12, 2012 02:52
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escape artist posted:I find what Richards did to be way, way worse than what Tosh did. Tosh made a joke. Richards made a personal attack. I don't think what Tosh did was funny, but there's no way you can say he wanted her to get raped right there. How in the world is telling someone that you wish they were gang raped not a personal attack?
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Jul 12, 2012 03:07
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Space_Butler posted:As far as your bringing up of Michael Richards, the BIG difference you're failing to recognize between that incident and the Daniel Tosh incident is the amount of evidence involved. That's a great point, but very few comedians' defense of Tosh has been based on "well it's just her word vs. his!" and the same applies to most posts about it in this thread. For those who take that as their basis and have from the start, I understand and am sympathetic to it. I get if you want to write it off as "this is just hearsay" and wouldn't then try to argue about the merits of what supposedly happened. There's definitely a chance she made stuff up. If this lady fabricated things or blew everything out of proportion, that is hosed up. However, that's not the topic being debated here, and it's not the talking point of most of Tosh's defenders. The substance of the argument we were having, and the thing I take issue with, is directly comparable to the Michael Richards' case. I'm assuming that the scenario, as stated, is more or less what actually happened even if the wording is off, and that's what all my points are based in. If you want to move the goalposts now, I will concede cause I wasn't there and don't really care to take the word of one woman as fact in order to continue. Richards' saying "50 years ago" isn't really comparable to Tosh's "what if, right now" in terms of how threatening they are imo, but for the sake of argument, I'll just accept that they are. That still doesn't explain why nobody cared enough to speak out for Richards while they do about Tosh. The two scenarios have a lot of similarities and nobody can really articulate why one is worth defending to this level and one isn't. edit: also, that Jeselnik thing is funny and clever. So is Carlin's thing about proving rape is funny. Nobody's saying you can't joke about rape, race, suicide, death, anything under the sun. "What if five guys raped you" ain't jokes, though. It's just him saying a mean thing and he's catching poo poo for it. No big deal. indigi fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 03:11
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indigi posted:edit: also, that Jeselnik thing is funny and clever. Literally no part of it is true though.
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Jul 12, 2012 03:19
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indigi posted:
Alright, well, then I misinterpreted what you were saying. I don't think what Daniel Tosh said to her was funny, but I don't find it to be controversial either. Groucho Marxist posted:How in the world is telling someone that you wish they were gang raped not a personal attack? Because it was said 100% in jest. Honestly, do you really think he meant it? He was just tossing the subject that offended her back in her face, because she interrupted his set. Part of Daniel's character is insulting the audience. He calls his audience idiots on a weekly basis on his show. Here's another Jeselnik comment, this time directly about the controversy we're discussing, via Twitter: "This Daniel Tosh rape joke controversy really has me second guessing some of my rapes." escape artist fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 03:23
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indigi posted:edit: also, that Jeselnik thing is funny and clever. So is Carlin's thing about proving rape is funny. Nobody's saying you can't joke about rape, race, suicide, death, anything under the sun. "What if five guys raped you" ain't jokes, though. It's just him saying a mean thing and he's catching poo poo for it. No big deal. Tosh made some kind of joke about rape, an audience member got offended and interrupted his set to complain about his material. He then attacked the person who was interrupting his show. Why does him attacking the person have to be funny? He could've gone Hicks style, called her a stupid oval office and told her to shut the gently caress up, which also isn't funny, and isn't any less offensive than rape. I don't see it any different from a musician confronting someone interrupting his set. No one would give the musician poo poo for not doing it lyrically with instrumental backing.
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Jul 12, 2012 03:33
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http://www.buzzfeed.com/amyodell/comedy-club-owner-says-daniel-tosh-incident-has-bequote:Masada says Tosh asked the audience, "What you guys want to talk about?" After someone in the front said "rape," a woman in the audience started screaming, "No, rape is painful, don’t talk about it." Then, Masada says, "Daniel came in, and he said, 'Well it sounds like she’s been raped by five guys' — something like that. I really didn’t hear properly." So, I don't really understand how the guy heard a lady in the audience crystal clear but not the miced comedian, but if you want to say "oh see, this is just a big misunderstanding!" there you go.
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Jul 12, 2012 03:33
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XK posted:Tosh made some kind of joke about rape, an audience member got offended and interrupted his set to complain about his material. He then attacked the person who was interrupting his show. Why does him attacking the person have to be funny? He could've gone Hicks style, called her a stupid oval office and told her to shut the gently caress up, which also isn't funny, and isn't any less offensive than rape. I don't see it any different from a musician confronting someone interrupting his set. No one would give the musician poo poo for not doing it lyrically with instrumental backing. 1) They would if he said how funny it would be for five guys to rape her. 2) You can't claim "it's just comedy" as a defense if you aren't attempting to make it comedic. A lot of the argument centers around the core idea that Tosh was just trying to be funny. 3) Generally, I agree with the point you're making. I don't think we should impose any sort of limit on what people say from stage. However, they don't get to claim immunity from criticism because of it. If you don't want the internet to blow up at you maybe you should take care to make what you say funny - like Jeselnik did regarding suicide - or stay away from sensitive topics you know will draw this type of reaction. Also, if you want to say "well she shouldn't have heckled!" part of that is on the club. If they're known to have 0-tolerance policy and have good bouncers, this type of thing won't happen. The fact is a lot of clubs, a lot of comedians, and even a good amount of audiences like and want the heckler element cause it makes everything a little more dangerous. Which Tosh found out.
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Jul 12, 2012 03:39
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indigi posted:1) They would if he said how funny it would be for five guys to rape her. 2) You can't claim "it's just comedy" as a defense if you aren't attempting to make it comedic. A lot of the argument centers around the core idea that Tosh was just trying to be funny. Whatever original comment he made that caused her issue with him should get the "it's just comedy" defense. Anything he said to her after her interruption doesn't need any defense, it was entirely intended to upset her. If you chuck a bottle at a band because you think their song sucks, the singer might come down and punch your lights out. If you criticize a comedian during his act, he might say awful things to you. If you don't like what a comedian says, then don't give him any more of your business. Tosh came down and punched her, now she's crying about it. quote:However, they don't get to claim immunity from criticism because of it. If you don't want the internet to blow up at you maybe you should take care to make what you say funny - like Jeselnik did regarding suicide - or stay away from sensitive topics you know will draw this type of reaction. If anyone wants to criticize Tosh for what he did, fine, but when those same people claim that anyone who defends Tosh is a rape apologist, that's completely inappropriate, and I've seen a lot of that happening over this.
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Jul 12, 2012 03:57
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XK posted:Tosh came down and punched her, now she's crying about it. Well, actually he is. Seeing as she got the public apology, I'm pretty sure she's feeling great about the whole thing.
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Jul 12, 2012 04:07
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Here's Mitch Hedberg, of all people, telling the crowd to "pumble that oval office" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZZpT9PbJF8&t=51s When a rehearsed performance (that's pretty much what stand-up is) is interrupted, you can't expect the performer to be graceful in their handling of the heckler. It's awesome when they can but most of the time, they just want them out of there so they can continue. Here's Godfrey dealing with a heckler when he brings up rape https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRbKDO2HTXg
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Jul 12, 2012 04:25
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Maybe it's time those traditions get reexamined. Way past time. The issues inherent in Tosh's thing aren't specific to stand up comedy, but to our cultural in general.
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Jul 12, 2012 04:32
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Maarak posted:Maybe it's time those traditions get reexamined. Way past time. The issues inherent in Tosh's thing aren't specific to stand up comedy, but to our cultural in general. What do you mean? Like, could you elaborate? I'm not disagreeing, I'm just looking to understand you better. Sporadic posted:Here's Mitch Hedberg, of all people, telling the crowd to "pumble that oval office" These are beautiful examples of why the lady, in her self-righteous indignation, was wrong, and Tosh, even in his un-graceful response, was right. Thanks for posting. A comedy show is a listening show. It's not a forum. Sometimes comedians will banter with the audience, but you let the comedian initiate it. Otherwise, you're being a disrespectful, not just to the comedian, but to everyone who paid to see the show. escape artist fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 04:43
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HateTheInternet posted:I'd actually argue that Tosh is even bigger than Louis C.K. right now. Stewart and Colbert are definitely the biggest names in comedy, but as far as stand-up goes I don't think anyone's beating Tosh these days. Patton Oswalt maybe. Stewart and Colbert yeah, but Patton Oswalt, really? How many people really know who he is??
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Jul 12, 2012 05:23
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indigi posted:Richards' saying "50 years ago" isn't really comparable to Tosh's "what if, right now" in terms of how threatening they are imo, but for the sake of argument, I'll just accept that they are. That still doesn't explain why nobody cared enough to speak out for Richards while they do about Tosh. The two scenarios have a lot of similarities and nobody can really articulate why one is worth defending to this level and one isn't. So if you want a difference, there's another one. Both said something heinous. Both apologized. But one said something heinous while in the midst of basically having a screaming meltdown, while the other tried to make it a part of his act. Massive failure on the latter's part or not, fellow comedians (especially ones that have had to deal with awful hecklers) will NEVER trash a comic for trying to deal with a heckler if ultimately he was TRYING for humor. It may be horribly offensive and unfunny humor, but it's hard to make the case for the alternative, that he was making a serious and literal threat against the woman.
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Jul 12, 2012 05:23
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indigi posted:http://www.buzzfeed.com/amyodell/comedy-club-owner-says-daniel-tosh-incident-has-be If that's what happened it's not as completely unfunny as what the woman said on her blog.
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Jul 12, 2012 07:06
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Maarak posted:Maybe it's time those traditions get reexamined. Way past time. The issues inherent in Tosh's thing aren't specific to stand up comedy, but to our cultural in general. It's one thing that won't change. Clubs want to sell liquor, liquored up people are stupid/loud, comedians (think they) have to try to do something to put talkative drunk people, who are interrupting the show, in their place. Until some time of comedy Alamo Drafthouse is opened and copied, that's just the way it is. Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 07:41
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Guys did you know that there are things like "crowd work" and "riffing" and that stand up comedy is at least partially an interaction between the performer and his or her audience, and that "listening show" stuff isn't really fair or accurate? And therefore if someone, in that situation, genuinely feels that something destructive and immoral is being said onstage, that they might also feel that they have at least some recourse w/r/t speaking back? And that even if all that weren't true, it doesn't matter, you can't say poo poo like that because it's toxic, unfunny, mean-spirited and physically threatening? Or ok, do you guys know who Andrew Dice-Clay is? He is, or really kinda was, a stand-up comedian whose act contained awful, awful stuff, really virulent misogyny and homophobia and the like. Does he get the "just comedy" defense? He shouldn't, he made his money appealing to a crowd who shared or at least couldn't be bothered to apply any critical thought whatsoever to his hosed-up worldview. Tosh isn't on the level as Dice-Clay, but it's a difference of degree. The point is that this "just comedy" defense doesn't work; comedians shouldn't have carte blanche to say literally any hosed up thing they want onstage. XK posted:Why does him attacking the person have to be funny? He could've gone Hicks style, called her a stupid oval office and told her to shut the gently caress up, which also isn't funny, and isn't any less offensive than rape. Are you kidding me.
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Jul 12, 2012 07:54
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Little Blue Couch posted:The point is that this "just comedy" defense doesn't work; comedians shouldn't have carte blanche to say literally any hosed up thing they want onstage. I think I sort of figured out why indigi and little blue couch are annoying me in this thread. They're saying rape jokes are never funny and that people shouldn't be saying them and I feel like it's my mother saying "You shouldn't do this! It's bad! Because I say so!" So subconsciously I'm thinking "I'm 22, mom, I can laugh at a rape joke if I want! You're not the boss of me, I hate you!" I know that someone saying "you shouldn't laugh at it" doesn't really matter and I can ignore it, but I still get mad at being judged and having implied that I'm terrible because I want to laugh at something (no matter how bad that something is). So basically I feel that comedians should be able to say whatever they want and people should be able to laugh at it without people judging them or telling them they shouldn't be doing it. Because I said so. Because I want it to be that way. Because I'm probably mentally 12 years old and I still don't like being told what to do.
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Jul 12, 2012 08:13
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Little Blue Couch posted:The point is that this "just comedy" defense doesn't work; comedians shouldn't have carte blanche to say literally any hosed up thing they want onstage. They should though. Patrice O'Neil said it best that the material people might find offensive comes from the same place as a bit others view as being brilliant.
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Jul 12, 2012 08:18
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It looks like Louis CK deleted his tweet complimenting Tosh, too. I guess because the timing seemed like some sort of rape joke support?
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Jul 12, 2012 08:44
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Little Blue Couch posted:Guys did you know that there are things like "crowd work" and "riffing" and that stand up comedy is at least partially an interaction between the performer and his or her audience, and that "listening show" stuff isn't really fair or accurate? And you understand that most crowd work/riffing is actually either really generic or preplanned? Louis C.K did a fantastic bit on it on a bootleg. "Who wants to be made insulted? Raise your hand if you like to be insulted -- Hey buddy, how you doing? Good? No, you're not. -- You're wearing glasses and you have big eyebrows and I don't even need any of that. Because those are just superficial stuff on top of a giant pile of diarrhea. The only thing worse than the amount of diarrhea you are is that there had to be some giant horrible creature that shat you out. What city are you from? Camero? You know only two things come from Camero. You're mother's smelly vagina -- and your mother's other smelly vagina." That isn't to say that comedians can't riff but it's a specialized trait. George Carlin couldn't riff at all (beyond calling somebody a cocksucker) and I doubt anybody would say he's a bad comedian for it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neRWv17Saj8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRyQ944NuGk George Carlin posted:George Carlin: It would seem to me that some of the frustration one feels comes out in ones work on stage in, in the umm, in the manner of performing and that is to say the heat that one gives to the things, the urgency, the aggressiveness. There was a lot of outbursts at the audience. Always a particular person, if there was a heckler, I never cobbled hecklers. I ignored them until I was sure that everyone around them was tired of them, And then I said, I would wait for the right thing to come along and I would just turn and I would say gently caress you! You cocksucker! gently caress you and gently caress your mother in the rear end in a top hat with a big rubber dick. Who the gently caress are you, to come here and steal the services that Im offering these people and theyre paying for? Youre guilty of theft of services! Why dont you people police up your section? Dont you have a vigilante group in that area? Stab that prick! I would say that. Id say Doesnt anyone have something pointy? It was wonderfully loving cathartic. ----- Little Blue Couch posted:Or ok, do you guys know who Andrew Dice-Clay is? He is, or really kinda was, a stand-up comedian whose act contained awful, awful stuff, really virulent misogyny and homophobia and the like. Does he get the "just comedy" defense? He shouldn't, he made his money appealing to a crowd who shared or at least couldn't be bothered to apply any critical thought whatsoever to his hosed-up worldview. Tosh isn't on the level as Dice-Clay, but it's a difference of degree. The point is that this "just comedy" defense doesn't work; comedians shouldn't have carte blanche to say literally any hosed up thing they want onstage. Dice is actually really funny. He stumbled into a gimmick that made him alot of money but The Day The Laughter Died is solid proof that he was the real deal. Little Blue Couch posted:Are you kidding me. You realize that Hicks literally said "Hitler had the right idea, he was just an underachiever." to a heckler (in a lovely crowd) that kept yelling Freebird at him, right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxZ0huW54Xs DannoMack posted:It looks like Louis CK deleted his tweet complimenting Tosh, too. I guess because the timing seemed like some sort of rape joke support? I wouldn't go that far. Louis deletes tweets all the time (his best are when he's drunk on an airplane) Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Jul 12, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 08:55
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This is barely even about Daniel Tosh anymore I guess, more about this weird attitude that apparently, standing on a stage and telling jokes means that a person is completely divorced from any standards or sense of decency.joff_b posted:I think I sort of figured out why indigi and little blue couch are annoying me in this thread. They're saying rape jokes are never funny and that people shouldn't be saying them and I feel like it's my mother saying "You shouldn't do this! It's bad! Because I say so!" So subconsciously I'm thinking "I'm 22, mom, I can laugh at a rape joke if I want! You're not the boss of me, I hate you!" I'm not saying that rape is a completely taboo subject, what I'm saying is that there is a way to handle sensitive issues and there is a way to gently caress it up. Just a few posts ago I talked about how Louis C.K. has a really good attitude toward addressing offensive material and manages to handle such material quite well. Anthony Jeselnik's offensive material works because his act is based around a totally over-the-top persona. Amy Schumer has a similar deal. And if you think that all rape jokes are funny or even acceptable then gently caress yes I judge you poorly. -Atom- posted:They should though. Yes okay lots of comedians have said that there should be no boundaries in what they can say, it's a good thing someone finally pointed this out. A comedian can talk about whatever he wants, and if he does a good job then he will have made a good joke, and if he does a bad job he will reveal himself as a dude who wrote and rehearsed this material and never once thought "hmm, wait a second, maybe these jokes are empty hurtful schlock."
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Jul 12, 2012 09:13
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I knew it was a really bad idea to check this thread. Its nice to see a bunch of White Male Comedians defending their "right" to say rape jokes. Glad you guys have brought in perspectives of people who have a greater chance of sexual abuse, you know, women? Rape really just isnt funny, and if you do find it funny you are a really gross, rear end in a top hat misogynist. Go ahead and continue to laugh and re-tell and defend them if you want, I can't stop you. Most of you fucks suck, don't understand censorship, and are the problem with ending misogyny in comedy. gently caress you.
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Jul 12, 2012 09:20
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Is there a way I can laugh at a rape joke and not be a misogynist? Maybe I can be a reasonable percentage like 5% misogynist, 95% non-misogynist, where I laugh at rape jokes but I am also not a complete rear end in a top hat who hates women? What if the rape joke is just about the subject of rape like Tosh's original one was, but I draw the line at laughing at people who have actually been raped or threatening people with rape? Am I really a misogynist if I laugh at the ironic concept that "all rape jokes are funny"? (a premise which could easily lead to great comedy if it was done by someone like Louis CK rather than Daniel Tosh, by the way).
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Jul 12, 2012 09:48
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Politicalrancor posted:I knew it was a really bad idea to check this thread. Now, I posted multiple examples of the top names in comedy telling the crowd to physically assault or murder a heckler messing up their act. Where's the big hysterical freakout about that? Why do you get to say where the line is for them? Tosh tried to roll with the punches during a show and failed. Louis C.K did, arguably, the funniest joke on rape during his HBO special and nobody batted an eye. He did it in an aloof manner and succeeded. It's up to the entertainer to decide whether they wants to walk out on the tight rope. Jim Norton yells all the time about how certain people should get AIDS and die. Doesn't he know the AIDS epidemic is a really serious problem? It isn't funny to wish death on somebody. Doug Stanhope says the words human being and friend of the family in his act. Doesn't he realize the history of those words and how they hurt? How can he be so callous? If somebody does something in an unfunny, uninteresting way...give them the poo poo they deserve but don't go to the extreme that a subject can never be funny or interesting or even approached.
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Jul 12, 2012 10:00
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