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I could understand that people making sexist or racist jokes might make some people more liable to be freely racist or sexist. However I don't think hearing a rape joke is going to make anyone but serious sociopaths more likely to rape a woman, that's a loving ridiculous notion. There's no way jokes are going to make normal people more likely to rape someone, there's not one person who isn't going to rank it up there with murder as the worst thing you can possibly do, even people who do rape and murder people (it's why they do it). It is possible for people to divorce fiction from reality. I've spent the last few days playing Saints Row 2 in which I have indiscriminately murdered hundreds upon hundreds of virtual people. I have no urge to actually murder someone in reality. In a similar way, I could laugh at hundreds upon hundreds of rape jokes and never feel the urge to rape people because I can correctly separate jokes from reality because my brain isn't broken.
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Jul 13, 2012 07:06
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joff_b posted:I could understand that people making sexist or racist jokes might make some people more liable to be freely racist or sexist. However I don't think hearing a rape joke is going to make anyone but serious sociopaths more likely to rape a woman, that's a loving ridiculous notion. Your idea that "normal people" don't rape is false. The massive number of rape victims makes it clear that, in fact, a great many normal people commit rape. Indeed, studies have been done where a shocking percentage of men indicate a willingness to rape. One cause for this is ignorance. Like your claim that only sociopaths do it, people think that rape is done only by madmen in back alleys. But rape is most often committed by an acquaintance; men don't realize that they are committing rape when they get a woman drunk to have sex, or intimidate her, or manipulate her, or use a position of power, or force their wife to do her "duty". We think only sociopaths rape, and I am not a sociopath, so I am not a rapist; unfortunately, this is not always true. Paradoxically, another cause is because we trivialize rape. How many times do you have to hear "ha ha, don't drop the soap" before you stop reflecting on the absolute horror that prison rape entails? How often do you and your buddies discuss getting a girl to "give it up" before you forget that pressuring someone into sex is rape? How can you possibly laugh at "wouldn't it be funny if you got raped right now" without to some extent forgetting that there's a very good chance that woman would be raped at some point in her life for real? Finally, the sad fact of the matter is that rape is easy. Society already gives men tremendous power over women, making it easier to commit rape. Thanks to endemic victim blaming and harassment, in addition to the basic shame of the crime, the chance of being accused--let alone prosecuted--is very low. Hell, there's every chance that your victim will have already internalized the patriarchal messages she's lived with all her life, and will blame herself instead of you. And all of this flows from the basic fact that our society constantly reinforces the idea that women are lesser than men, that men ultimately have ownership of women and their bodies, that the feelings and desires of women don't matter. And there's not much better way to do that than make a joke about raping them.
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Jul 13, 2012 07:37
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To briefly derail this discussion, for anyone in San Diego who didn't attend the Patton Oswalt show, you missed a hell of a gig. The opener was an SNL writer and Onion contributor named Mike Drucker who absolutely killed, and he was followed up with surprise guests (I guess not really when you remember it's Patton, but whatever) Brian Posehn and Doug Benson, who did some phenomenal sets as well. And then Patton got up and did close to 90 minutes of new material that all landed solidly on its feet, not one dud at all. It was an absolutely flawless show, and the perfect thing to have in this city right in the middle of the insanity that is Comic Con.
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Jul 13, 2012 07:39
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CommunistMojo posted:So female comedians doing it is cool got it. I didn't say that. Personally, a lot of the people who I've seen quoted as defending their "offensive" humor have been men: George Carlin, Louis CK, Stephen Fry, Patton Oswalt etc. Interestingly enough, most Tosh defenders don't seem interested in quoting female comedians in their rush to defend rape jokes or misogyny. I am sure that the female equivalents exist, and yes, the audience can call them out as well.
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Jul 13, 2012 07:47
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Space_Butler posted:And then Patton got up and did close to 90 minutes of new material that all landed solidly on its feet, not one dud at all. So his new block of material completely consists of rape jokes? Sold.
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Jul 13, 2012 08:01
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CommunistMojo posted:So female comedians doing it is cool got it. Do you understand that men and women are different and have different life experiences and that it is a great deal more likely that a man is going to make offensive thoughtless comments on the subject of rape? That's why it's dumb to say "oh so a female comedian can do it and it's fine how is that fair." Yes it's fair. Actually Mornacale put it pretty much better than I ever could, I guess if you have to pick one comment to fall on deaf ears you should pick that one and not mine. Mine is meaner, anyway.
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Jul 13, 2012 08:03
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Mornacale posted:Your idea that "normal people" don't rape is false. I don't want to be an rear end in a top hat here because I agree with some of what you're saying, but at no point did I say only sociopaths rape people or that "normal" people don't rape. You could interpret what I said that way but that wasn't what I was going for. What I said was that jokes about rape aren't going to make a "normal" person more likely to rape another. "Normal" seems to be a very loaded term for some reason, maybe I should have clarified it as "a male human adult who has not raped anybody". I'd be hesitant to call someone who has raped someone else "normal" but that's just my intended definition of the word. As for the prison rape thing I'm not sure making jokes about prison rape has actually softened it, it has just added another mode of thinking about it. I could probably make jokes about prison rape all day, but I can tell you that I would be scared as gently caress to go to jail because I don't want to be raped. I can laugh at prison rape but I can also be terrified of it depending on the context, without feeling some cognitive dissonance to it. You don't watch Oz and say "haha that guy is being raped" no matter how many times you've laughed at a prison rape joke, because of the context of the show and the way the material is dealt with. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that I (personally) can laugh at a rape joke, but also be horrified by the concept of rape or someone actually being raped depending on what the context is, without saying "all mentions of rape are funny" or "all mentions of rape are bad". I really do support trying to get rid of misogyny and rape and the idea that women are "lesser" than men, but I think there are (or should be) safe spaces where these ideas can be used to create humor without endorsing the ideas, and that comedy is one of them. I'm not sure if that will make sense to you or seem like hypocrisy but that's how it is sometimes I guess.
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Jul 13, 2012 09:09
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TheAbortionator posted:I'm pretty confused, is there some kind of spread sheet that I can check to clarify when and when its not appropriate to laugh at a rape joke? o jackymc fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Sep 27, 2021 |
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Jul 13, 2012 09:58
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Why don't some of you regale us with your favorite rape based humor, there must be plenty of it to be worth defending so hard. Don't give us Louis ck as its already been done and posted. I mean these must be hilarious jokes that us "sensitive" types just don't get, so enlighten us with some hilarious rape jokes.
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Jul 13, 2012 11:41
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Why don't some of you regale us with your favorite rape based humor, there must be plenty of it to be worth defending so hard. Don't give us Louis ck as its already been done and posted. I mean these must be hilarious jokes that us "sensitive" types just don't get, so enlighten us with some hilarious rape jokes. You're missing the entire point that people are making, either on purpose or you're just very dumb. edit- Most women don't live in a constant state of fear of being raped. If you really think that, you need to get out of the creepy bubble that you live in. Ariza fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Jul 13, 2012 |
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Jul 13, 2012 12:05
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joff_b posted:I don't want to be an rear end in a top hat here because I agree with some of what you're saying, but at no point did I say only sociopaths rape people or that "normal" people don't rape. You could interpret what I said that way but that wasn't what I was going for. The only thing "normal" means in this context is that you can't tell someone who has raped from someone who hasn't. What's more, rapists often don't see themselves as rapists, but as "normal" people. And as a result, they think their predatory behaviour is normal, and they don't see it as rape. Little over 1 out of 20 male college students will admit to having raped someone for as long as the r-word is never used. Quoting this article: quote:6% of college age men, slightly over 1 in 20, will admit to raping someone in anonymous surveys, as long as the word “rape” isn’t used in the description of the act. joff_b posted:As for the prison rape thing I'm not sure making jokes about prison rape has actually softened it, it has just added another mode of thinking about it. I could probably make jokes about prison rape all day, but I can tell you that I would be scared as gently caress to go to jail because I don't want to be raped. I can laugh at prison rape but I can also be terrified of it depending on the context, without feeling some cognitive dissonance to it. You don't watch Oz and say "haha that guy is being raped" no matter how many times you've laughed at a prison rape joke, because of the context of the show and the way the material is dealt with. joff_b posted:I guess what I'm trying to get at is that I (personally) can laugh at a rape joke, but also be horrified by the concept of rape or someone actually being raped depending on what the context is, without saying "all mentions of rape are funny" or "all mentions of rape are bad". Chromatic posted:I also think it's important for people like Politicalrancor or anyone else to note that a decent chunk of dark comedians have had pretty horrible upbringings or traumatic experiences in their youth and comedy is a coping mechanism for them(and us and the people like us). I keep talking about context, and this is part of it. Daniel Tosh isn't a survivor and didn't talk about his own experiences, but he used experiences of other people (women) to get a cheap laugh out of people. When a woman spoke up about this, he used a rape threat (or a violent rape scenario) to shut her down. Which brings us to a different part of context: rape is still primarily a woman's issue, with 90% of the victims being women and there being an 1 in 6 chance of being the victim of a completed or attempted rape. (This is where many of the "only women can joke about rape" comments come from, I think it's more accurate to say that only survivors can). And around 98% of the perpetrators are men. Rape, unlike murder (less than 1 in 25000 chance of being victimized), is a very real threat and a daily reality to a lot of women, especially those who have been victimized already or are in a hostile environment that constantly reminds them of being in a vulnerable position. This is the context I see, and why I take issue with what Tosh said and did. This is also the larger context in which most rape jokes operate. They don't come from people Chromatic quoted. joff_b posted:I really do support trying to get rid of misogyny and rape and the idea that women are "lesser" than men, but I think there are (or should be) safe spaces where these ideas can be used to create humor without endorsing the ideas, and that comedy is one of them. I'm not sure if that will make sense to you or seem like hypocrisy but that's how it is sometimes I guess.
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Jul 13, 2012 12:06
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Ariza posted:You're missing the entire point that people are making, either on purpose or you're just very dumb. Good thing I never claimed that all then and you just put words in my mouth. Just because someone does not live in constant paralyzing fear of something does not mean unfunny Jokes about the subject are not tasteless and stupid. WoodrowSkillson fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Jul 13, 2012 |
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Jul 13, 2012 12:30
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Angry Avocado posted:I'm all for this. Humor is an excellent way to point out discrepancies in our current way of thinking, and to push people to think about subjects they might not be comfortable with, or never really thought about. But most people who talk about societal ills don't do this, and at worst they do the exact thing you just described: creating humor that endorses bad ideas. THIS loving THIS. A rape joke isn't an inherent endorsement of rape nor, is a joke about race inherently an endorsement of racism. If those statements are true and extrapolated then drat near every comedian that's ever worked is some kind of horrible bigot. Marc Maron hates christians for his latest album having a 20 minute bit about the creationist museum and muslims for his bit about freaking out on a plane, Sara Silverman hates so so so many people, Maria Bamford hates old people, Dave Chappelle is racist for talking about race outside of him being black. How would we draw the line with comics who have joked about relationships with regards to sexism? Both genders of comedians talk about each other for humour. These jokes don't diminish the problem either; it's just another way of talking about the issue and even drawing attention to it when done correctly.
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Jul 13, 2012 12:44
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Angry Avocado posted:That's not what he was saying. Him pointing out your use of the word "normal" is only one part of the post, he didn't actually say it makes people more likely to rape, so there is no point in addressing an argument he never made. I wasn't really a fan of the article you posted which defended that idea by trying to scare me: quote:And, decent guy who would never condone rape, who would step in and stop rape if he saw it, who understands that rape is awful and wrong and bad, when you laughed? And the rapist thought you were a rapist too because you laughed at a rape joke. Because people are retarded and think when you laugh at something you agree with it. The whole concept is built on people making up ideas about how all rapists think, like they all have the same predatory rape wiring in their brains which short-circuits logic and humor. Angry Avocado posted:The context in which prison rape jokes don't have to do with a personal fear of the act itself. It's not a way for the person making the joke to deal with the discomfort of being raped. The context is overwhelmingly some form of sadism and smug self-satisfaction, that prison rape is a form of justice and the people suffering from it deserve it because they committed some petty crime (or: the people who suffer from prison rape are described as a single, violent, irredeemable monolith. Both are bad). They're not about encouraging thinking about prison rape in a different way, they firmly reinforce pre-existing notions about it. Angry Avocado posted:I'm not making that argument, but I will say context is important. It matters who makes the joke, and what the joke is, and if he has the needed perspective to deal with the subject matter in a respectful and/or thought-provoking fashion. If those things aren't the case, the joke is more likely than not going to be really bad. I can agree with this too. But I feel like the possibility people will be offended or hurt with humor is worth it for the possible great jokes and interesting insights. Daniel Tosh loving up and hurting a woman's feelings with a lovely counter-heckler riff is worth it if we also get to have Louis CK's jokes about rape. Basically I'm saying that my laughter is worth more than that woman's feelings. I can't really make that seem nice but it's how I apparently feel. The solution isn't to say "comedians shouldn't talk about rape", it's to say "Daniel Tosh was a loving unfunny idiot". Like you suggested it's really a case by case thing.
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Jul 13, 2012 13:39
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Aisha posted:I am sure that the female equivalents exist, and yes, the audience can call them out as well. This is where we disagree. Hecklers ruin shows all the time, self righteous hecklers are the worst. I don't care if they are right, I don't care even if I agree with them 100%. Find a better podium. WoodrowSkillson posted:Why don't some of you regale us with your favorite rape based humor, there must be plenty of it to be worth defending so hard. Don't give us Louis ck as its already been done and posted. I mean these must be hilarious jokes that us "sensitive" types just don't get, so enlighten us with some hilarious rape jokes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo0RoQAmifI Again this isn't the rape joke mega-thread, its the stand up comedy thread, I am not worried my precious rape jokes are going to be taken away, I am worried that someone else thinks they have the moral authority to decide what or what I shouldn't be hearing at a show I paid money to see.
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Jul 13, 2012 15:23
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Can someone recommend some comedians like Jeselnik? I like his style and timing. I've listened to all of the big names, but I'm sure I missed somebody. I wish he'd just put out another album.
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Jul 13, 2012 15:33
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Jimmy Carr is really similar.
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Jul 13, 2012 15:37
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jyrka posted:Jimmy Carr is really similar. I think I've seen most everything he's ever done, but that's exactly what I'm looking for. Filthy offensive jokes that aren't long stories.
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Jul 13, 2012 15:56
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Amy Schumer has a pretty similar sorta deal.
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Jul 13, 2012 16:05
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Give Stewart Francis a go as well.
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Jul 13, 2012 16:14
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http://austin.culturemap.com/newsdetail/07-12-12-14-37-the-best-response-weve-heard-to-daniel-toshs-misquoted-rape-jokes/
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Jul 13, 2012 17:08
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rear end Catchcum posted:http://austin.culturemap.com/newsdetail/07-12-12-14-37-the-best-response-weve-heard-to-daniel-toshs-misquoted-rape-jokes/ I'm going to get poo poo for this but the first thing I thought of, while reading that, was circumcision. Almost 60% of dudes in America do get their dicks cut on (as babies) and you can sure as poo poo bet that female comedians joke about it. Not only joke about it but joke about it in a positive manner. Whitney Cummings did a small bit on it where she says that all men think about sex because all women are beautiful but women aren't obsessed with sex because all men are disgusting, that our penis is so ugly that they have to cut some of it off just to make it halfway presentable. That an uncircumcised penis is horrible. Here's the thing, even though I think that's wrong and unfunny, that doesn't mean she doesn't get to approach the topic. And if I was in the audience, I would be an rear end in a top hat if I stood up and tried to interrupt her show over it.
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Jul 13, 2012 18:47
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Sporadic posted:I'm going to get poo poo for this but the first thing I thought of, while reading that, was circumcision. Almost 60% of dudes in America do get their dicks cut on (as babies) and you can sure as poo poo bet that female comedians joke about it. Not only joke about it but joke about it in a positive manner. Whitney Cummings did a small bit on it where she says that all men think about sex because all women are beautiful but women aren't obsessed with sex because all men are disgusting, that our penis is so ugly that they have to cut some of it off just to make it halfway presentable. That an uncircumcised penis is horrible. Oh man this has opened up a whole wasps nest of crazy right here. Women shouldn't disrespect the sacred penis!
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Jul 13, 2012 18:56
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Angry Avocado posted:I keep talking about context, and this is part of it. Daniel Tosh isn't a survivor and didn't talk about his own experiences, but he used experiences of other people (women) to get a cheap laugh out of people. When a woman spoke up about this, he used a rape threat (or a violent rape scenario) to shut her down. Which brings us to a different part of context: rape is still primarily a woman's issue, with 90% of the victims being women and there being an 1 in 6 chance of being the victim of a completed or attempted rape. (This is where many of the "only women can joke about rape" comments come from, I think it's more accurate to say that only survivors can). I really don't understand what this has to do with anything. 1 in 4 people will die of cancer, but I don't hear anyone telling comics they can't joke about cancer. Are only cancer survivors allowed to joke about cancer?
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Jul 13, 2012 20:17
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XK posted:I really don't understand what this has to do with anything. 1 in 4 people will die of cancer, but I don't hear anyone telling comics they can't joke about cancer. Are only cancer survivors allowed to joke about cancer? Most of the time at least, society doesn't blame cancer patients for getting cancer. It's not comparable. e. Which is why my argument isn't that at all VVVV. Maarak fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Jul 13, 2012 |
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Jul 13, 2012 20:21
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If anything, I think that turning rape into a taboo untouchable topic that nobody dare speak of contributes to the high incidence of rapes going unreported. It's not particularly healthy for something to both be considered a serious societal ill, and a topic that must be shied away from.Maarak posted:e. Which is why my argument isn't that at all VVVV. Didn't say it was, just in general the topic seems to be treated as way more taboo than is healthy. XK fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jul 13, 2012 |
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Jul 13, 2012 20:33
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Al! posted:Oh man this has opened up a whole wasps nest of crazy right here. Women shouldn't disrespect the sacred penis! I admit it's a bit out of left field, but mutilating a child's body part for aesthetic/religious reasons is a pretty hosed up thing to do. I had a huge blow up argument with my Catholic wife when she was pregnant about the very topic. If you want to go with the ironic "how dare she insult the penis!" schtick, that's great. Personally, I don't think people should go around skinning baby dicks all willy-nilly, and it is a specifically male problem/issue. I'm still not gonna get a red rear end about it if some woman makes a silly joke. You're being silly. Well, it's male specific except for in a few of your more festive African countries. But that poo poo's just out of loving hand. DangerDummy! fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jul 13, 2012 |
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Jul 13, 2012 20:59
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Little Blue Couch posted:Amy Schumer has a pretty similar sorta deal. jyrka posted:Give Stewart Francis a go as well.
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Jul 13, 2012 21:16
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joff_b posted:I really do support trying to get rid of misogyny and rape and the idea that women are "lesser" than men, but I think there are (or should be) safe spaces where these ideas can be used to create humor without endorsing the ideas, and that comedy is one of them. I'm not sure if that will make sense to you or seem like hypocrisy but that's how it is sometimes I guess. This is the funniest use of the concept of "safe space" I've seen in a while. Yep, men need a "safe space" to tell rape jokes. XK posted:If anything, I think that turning rape into a taboo untouchable topic that nobody dare speak of contributes to the high incidence of rapes going unreported. It's not particularly healthy for something to both be considered a serious societal ill, and a topic that must be shied away from. You can confront rape without making a joke of it, or, as Tosh does, using the threat of rape to silence a woman. That's not confronting rape; that legitimizes and makes light of rape.
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Jul 13, 2012 23:14
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People laugh at horrible things. In fact, if rape wasn't generally considered to be a horrible thing, Tosh's joke wouldn't have been funny at all. It's the same reason comedians joke about other forms of torture and people laugh, it's a form of dark humor that's always been there and always will be. It's the reason doctors make jokes about the terrifying diseases and injuries they deal with every day. It makes it a little easier to deal with the reality that these things exist. She was ridiculous for finding a comedian unfunny and offensive and then, instead of leaving, arguing with him while he was still on stage. That's really stupid. Has she never been to a comedy show before? Did she not understand that comedians often say the opposite of what is true for comedic effect? On the other hand, he shouldn't have went further with the joke as she was leaving. And the amount of bullshit misogyny backlash is disgusting. I hate the fact that no issue on the internet can be discussed without some mentally deficient douche with the mind of a 13 year old going "LOL LESBINS NEED A DICKIN LOL" every time a woman expresses an opinion.
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Jul 13, 2012 23:18
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Aisha posted:This is the funniest use of the concept of "safe space" I've seen in a while. I think you need to decide whether your point is that rape jokes are off limits or if they're just off limits to men, because if you keep leaving it open you're going to get hit with the "ohhh so WOMEN can say it but men CAN'T?" kind of poo poo that Chris Rock used to get about his "niggas vs black" stuff.
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Jul 13, 2012 23:20
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Aisha posted:This is the funniest use of the concept of "safe space" I've seen in a while. Do you guys have a siren that goes off somewhere when something happens that you don't agree with? Your only posts in this thread are telling people how stupid they are and how right you are.
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Jul 14, 2012 00:00
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Holy poo poo guys Natasha Leggero endorses rape or it's cool because she's a girl who the gently caress knows anymore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHyhLtroeF4&t=121s I guess Dave Chappelle doing this one is cool because he's talking about men being raped and he's a man. Is it? Maybe he's endorsing male rape by making a gag out of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLWlBgj0uOc Could it be they're just making jokes and not endorsing rape?! Outrageous!
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Jul 14, 2012 00:15
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http://www.laughspin.com/2012/07/13/comedian-tammy-pescatelli-assaulted-onstage-as-jacksonville-police-refuse-to-arrest-drunk-woman/
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Jul 14, 2012 00:24
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rear end Catchcum posted:http://www.laughspin.com/2012/07/13/comedian-tammy-pescatelli-assaulted-onstage-as-jacksonville-police-refuse-to-arrest-drunk-woman/ The human RSS feed.
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Jul 14, 2012 00:35
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Aisha posted:Seriously? At least joff is honest with his "my laughter is worth more than a woman's feelings". So you admit your issue is you don't like comedians hurting people's feelings? Then I will ask my previous question of you as well: XK posted:Please decree what topics comedians are and are not allowed to joke about. Is racism ok? How about suicide, drugs, bad driving, cancer, broken families, being fat, death, communicable illness, domestic abuse, violent crime, religion, or corrupt governance? All of those are serious societal issues that have severe impacts on millions of peoples' lives around the world, just like rape. You tell me which ones are ok.
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Jul 14, 2012 00:46
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I feel really annoyed comedians like Louis CK and Patton Oswalt are being attacked as part of the problem. Their opinions on this issue are really dumb (and if they knew any better they'd stay away from this issue) but I'm pretty sure they're not rape apologists and it just contributes to this whole debacle being blown out of proportion. What Daniel Tosh said was horrible but the reason it was horrible was that there's no possible way you can draw anything out of what he said other than intentionally trying to be offensive and hurt feelings. I mean, I was sexually abused but I don't get up in arms at jokes that handle sexual abuse or similar topics because most comedians joke about that kind of stuff in order to shed light on why those kind of things are awful. HOTLANTA MAN fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Jul 14, 2012 |
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Jul 14, 2012 01:01
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Ariza posted:Do you guys have a siren that goes off somewhere when something happens that you don't agree with? Your only posts in this thread are telling people how stupid they are and how right you are. Yes, I have a siren that goes off when something happens that I don't agree with. All of XK's posts in this thread have been to defend rape jokes (even going so far as to say that they do rape victims a favor!). All of joff's posts minus one have been the same. DannoMack posted:I think you need to decide whether your point is that rape jokes are off limits or if they're just off limits to men, because if you keep leaving it open you're going to get hit with the "ohhh so WOMEN can say it but men CAN'T?" kind of poo poo that Chris Rock used to get about his "niggas vs black" stuff. I don't want to say "rape jokes are off limits", rather it is people's right (and duty) to call out rape jokes which make light of or trivialize rape, as well those who support them. I specify men because interestingly enough, most of the people who are being defended for telling rape jokes or having that "heh I'm an equal opportunity offender" attitude, are rather privileged men (Carlin, Louis CK, and yes, Tosh). Chris Rock's routine has a certain grey area when done as a Black man. Tosh, et al. skip the initial stage and go right to using rape threats to silence women, meaning I can comfortably ignore said grey area. XK posted:So you admit your issue is you don't like comedians hurting people's feelings? Then I will ask my previous question of you as well: Um, no, that is not "my issue". The answer to your question is "it depends on context", same with anything else. Just because it is a joke does not mean it cannot be racist or misogynist or anything else. Personally, I've seen exactly one rape joke from a man which was actually funny and contributed something to the discussion other than misinformation and trivialization of the problem.
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Jul 14, 2012 02:19
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Ariza posted:He doesn't seem to be as punny as Carr and I haven't decided if that's a good or a bad thing.
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Jul 14, 2012 02:54
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Surprised Jimmy Carr didn't come up earlier as far as the rape jokes go. He's done more than a few.
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Jul 14, 2012 04:54
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