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So the new rules update for Only War is out. Highlights include Commissars' dropping the Strength Aptitude for Fellowship, options to switch your lasweapon training for SP, and non-retarded Characteristic and Skill advances (seriously, those skill advances look cheap as hell). EDIT: New Rogue Trader Errata too. CommissarMega fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Jul 11, 2012 |
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Jul 11, 2012 04:27
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I'm getting ready to start our first game of Deathwatch (and my first time GMing anything), and I want to go by the suggestion in the OP about using BC's updated combat and psychic rules for DW. I've been reading the DW and BC rulebooks, but as a total noob I'm having a hard time nailing down the differences. I saw mentions of changes to Full Auto and adding an automatic degree of success in this thread, but I'm assuming there's more to it. Is there any sort of comprehensive list of changes between the two systems, or maybe suggestions or tutorials for how to run BC rules in DW? Would it be as easy as just running a DW game, and then when combat breaks out, busting out the BC combat and psychic tables and referencing them? Do you have to tweak anything? Also, we're just going to try running the short mission in the DW rulebook to try nailing down the rules and getting a feel for everything. Afterwards, what would you folks suggest for the campaign modules? I've played a fair amount of tabletop games, but never ran or designed anything, so I want to keep it easy till I have a bit more experience. e: Just found the section in the back of the BC rulebook for using BC in DW. That should help. TheStampede fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jul 13, 2012 |
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Jul 12, 2012 23:30
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One of the biggest changes (and the only one that should matter, if you ask me) is the advancement system, which isn't based on 'class'; it's free purchasing all the way, modified by which god you lean to. Just take out Gifts of the Gods and all that Chaos-related poo poo, and let them make purchases based on their pseudo-alignment.
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Jul 13, 2012 01:08
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You could always use the aptitude system from Only War (Beta).
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Jul 13, 2012 02:55
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Galaga Galaxian posted:You could always use the aptitude system from Only War (Beta). That's a good idea too, and my personal preference, but then he'd get stuck trying to think up Aptitudes for each DW class, and that might not be any fun (unless you're just going to copy/paste stuff, like say Sergeant Aptitudes for the Tactical Marine). Also consider that there are chances for a Guardsman to gain additional Aptitudes into the bargain; a Marine has no such choice (of course, you can houserule some stuff in). The BC system might not be optimal, but it is simple.
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Jul 13, 2012 03:43
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CommissarMega posted:That's a good idea too, and my personal preference, but then he'd get stuck trying to think up Aptitudes for each DW class, and that might not be any fun (unless you're just going to copy/paste stuff, like say Sergeant Aptitudes for the Tactical Marine). Also consider that there are chances for a Guardsman to gain additional Aptitudes into the bargain; a Marine has no such choice (of course, you can houserule some stuff in). The BC system might not be optimal, but it is simple. Actually, Aptitudes are also really simple. Everyone gets six, four based on characteristics, two from the rest(things like Tech, Fieldcraft, Knowledge, etc.). If you want, you can increase the number of aptitudes(I think all the support classes get more). And maybe even have the marine's chapter give some starting bonuses like regiments do. So, let's take an Assault Marine. Weapon Skill and Strength are obvious, Agility helps with dual-wielding and using his Jetpack, I guess the fourth could be Toughness or maybe Perception(since DW assault marines get perception advances for cheap). Then round it out with Offence(makes Weapon Skill and Strength advances cheap) and Defence. In fact, I made this stat block in about 15 minutes: pre:Characteristic Bonus: +5 Weapon Skill Starting Aptitudes: Weapon Skill, Strength, Agility, Toughness, Offence, Defence Starting Skills: Operate(Aeronautica), Parry, Dodge, Intimidate Starting Talents: Ambidextrous, Swift Attack, Takedown, Two-Weapon Wielder(Melee), Two-Weapon Wielder(Ranged) Starting Traits: Unnatural Strength(4), Unnatural Toughness(4) Specialist Equipment: Astartes Chainsword, Astartes Bolt Pistol, Astartes Power Armor, Astartes Jump Pack Starting Wounds: 20+1d5
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Jul 13, 2012 05:01
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Well they've already rolled up DW characters, so I was more concerned with the playing mechanics. I'll keep that stuff in mind though for after our first game if they feel like making new characters. Right now I think we just want to keep it simple and nail down the mechanics. We're mostly D&D 3.5 players, but I'm a huge warham, and 2 of them started playing DoW2 and got everyone interested enough to try this out with me. At least DW seems exponentially easier to handle then D&D 3.5. Anyways, it seems like there weren't that many changes between DW and BC's combat systems. I didn't really notice what was different about the psychic powers though. Anyone mind filling me in on what I'm missing there, if anything?
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Jul 13, 2012 05:16
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Is there an errata somewhere that explains what putting a Bipod/Tripod on a Basic Weapon actually does other then allowing you to be Braced beforehand if an rear end in a top hat Psyker shows up and transforms your gun into a Heavy Weapon?
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Jul 13, 2012 18:13
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Asehujiko posted:Is there an errata somewhere that explains what putting a Bipod/Tripod on a Basic Weapon actually does other then allowing you to be Braced beforehand if an rear end in a top hat Psyker shows up and transforms your gun into a Heavy Weapon? There's no mention as to why you would bother getting a bipod over a tripod, though. Edit: Whoops, you said basic weapon. Nope, doesn't look like it does anything. Maybe the fact you can get bipods/tripods for basic weapons was a typo?
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Jul 13, 2012 18:45
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Astus posted:
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Jul 13, 2012 19:35
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Why the gently caress are they measuring stuff in degrees? I know it's only 90 degrees and 180 compared to 45, but what does that mean regular un-supported weapons are? 0 degrees? 40k RPG combat is such a mix of abstract ease-of-use stuff, and grog-style simulation.
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Jul 13, 2012 19:40
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Yoshimo posted:Why the gently caress are they measuring stuff in degrees? I know it's only 90 degrees and 180 compared to 45, but what does that mean regular un-supported weapons are? 0 degrees? 40k RPG combat is such a mix of abstract ease-of-use stuff, and grog-style simulation.  Non-heavy weapons don't use firing arcs, you're free to do pirouettes as a free action to your heart's content before shooting.
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Jul 13, 2012 19:48
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Astus posted:Maybe the fact you can get bipods/tripods for basic weapons was a typo? In the grim darkness of the far future, people will still slap stupid poo poo on their guns that does nothing useful.
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Jul 13, 2012 20:19
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TheStampede posted:Well they've already rolled up DW characters, so I was more concerned with the playing mechanics. I'll keep that stuff in mind though for after our first game if they feel like making new characters. Right now I think we just want to keep it simple and nail down the mechanics. We're mostly D&D 3.5 players, but I'm a huge warham, and 2 of them started playing DoW2 and got everyone interested enough to try this out with me. At least DW seems exponentially easier to handle then D&D 3.5.
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Jul 13, 2012 20:25
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I alway liked the old RF system for giving you that one-in-a-million chance to do something insanely heroic (which has come up in my DH games, like when their Sistr Novitiate (played as a Cleric) meltaed a Chaos Predator untrained and one-shotted it) but I see the logic of the new way. They want to have more crits happen without you dying immediately, basically.
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Jul 13, 2012 21:37
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Just checked up those changes and drat, I think I'll talk to my players about switching over to the BC system. I've been running a Dark Heresy campaign (because I'm the warham that knows the most fluff stuff) and everyone pretty much stands around semi/full-autoing at stuff because its so much better than any other option. Edit: Changes to Swift and Lightning attack are also good, make melee more viable.
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Jul 13, 2012 21:52
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The new Swift/Lightning Attack + Hordes can be so fun. Especially when you're using two swords. The reaction of my RT group's GM when my Lord Captain dove into a pack of orks and blendered a dozen almost in one Lightning attack round of my power swords was great. Then again if I hadn't murdered most of them, they would've killed me in return given you can't dodge/parry horde attacks. High powered Rogue Trader combat is so terrible/awesome, its pretty much Do or Die. Its like Epic level D&D with level 1 hitpoints almost.
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Jul 13, 2012 22:09
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Galaga Galaxian posted:The new Swift/Lightning Attack + Hordes can be so fun. Especially when you're using two swords. The most ridiculous example I've been in was and RT session where we interrupted a cult meeting and attempted to persuade them the RT was their messiah with a flashy psychic display but ended up summoning a daemon instead. We drove a car through the wall to run it over, and then the cult turned on us- but it was apparent anyone with AP 5+ and TB 3+ was immune to their primitive melee attacks, so the psyker in Flak just waited in the car whilst the rest of the party cut the 20-odd cultists down. If they made 1/5 the attacks but with an extra d5 damage they'd have been a weak threat, rather than complete nonissues.
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Jul 14, 2012 14:35
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Well, at least with the new Righteous Fury version in Black Crusade/Only War they could've at least nibbled you to death. It would be unlikely, but vaguely possible. My group are gonna start playing Only War for a few weeks starting this afternoon in a couple hours. We're playing a Drop Regiment who are going to be some of the first boots on the ground on a world that has gone silent(rebel?). We no idea what we're jumping into, if Command knows anything, they aren't telling us. All we've got are some exceptionally vague rumors of terrible things discovered by the Rogue Trader who investigated the planet's blackout. Gonna be fun. 
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Jul 14, 2012 17:54
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Galaga Galaxian posted:My group are gonna start playing Only War for a few weeks starting this afternoon in a couple hours. We're playing a Drop Regiment who are going to be some of the first boots on the ground on a world that has gone silent(rebel?). We no idea what we're jumping into, if Command knows anything, they aren't telling us. All we've got are some exceptionally vague rumors of terrible things discovered by the Rogue Trader who investigated the planet's blackout. Wait, I've seen this movie. "Let's rock!"  
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Jul 14, 2012 20:09
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Talkie Toaster posted:We drove a car through the wall to run it over, and then the cult turned on us- but it was apparent anyone with AP 5+ and TB 3+ was immune to their primitive melee attacks, so the psyker in Flak just waited in the car whilst the rest of the party cut the 20-odd cultists down. Isn't this where stuff like grappling comes in? I mean unless the cultists were totally nuts or had no idea what armor was capable of, it would only take a few of them to subdue a player, right? I don't think that there are solid rules for actually taking someone out that way, but it would at least give them an option of useful action.
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Jul 14, 2012 20:34
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Young Freud posted:Wait, I've seen this movie. Nope, just rebels/secessionists(?), however our female Heavy Weapons Guy didn't even try to hide it and named the character Vasquez. She's got a Missile Launcher right now, but I think she'd murder half the party for a Heavy Stubber with a Suspensor, Targeter, and Motion Predictor. In other news, flamers are fun. Not Pictured: Two guys doing the burny dance  , one of them a heavy armed with a Multilaser. I just wish map-based combat didn't take so long on IRC.
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Jul 15, 2012 01:17
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Galaga Galaxian posted:In other news, flamers are fun. Not Pictured: Two guys doing the burny dance I love it when someone puts down a flamer template. Nothing says "gently caress you" more than an 8" by 2" cone.
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Jul 15, 2012 12:37
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Nope, just rebels/secessionists(?), however our female Heavy Weapons Guy didn't even try to hide it and named the character Vasquez. She's got a Missile Launcher right now, but I think she'd murder half the party for a Heavy Stubber with a Suspensor, Targeter, and Motion Predictor. What are you using for the mapping stuff? I have been building out my campaign using Maptool and it seems pretty solid.
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Jul 15, 2012 14:22
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I believe our GM is just using Paint.net, GIMP or a similar program and uploading it to his own hosting. We play on IRC. We've been considering a move to some kind of map tools, especially if we keep the gridded combat (unlike RT where we usually didn't bother). However, none of us really have any experience with map tools.
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Jul 15, 2012 17:35
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Galaga Galaxian posted:I believe our GM is just using Paint.net, GIMP or a similar program and uploading it to his own hosting. We play on IRC. MapTools will probably be better in the long run. WH40KRP support is almost standard now and very well-developed. Even if you don't use the shared networking experience and just use it as a map, the framework makes things much easier. For instance, it saves the last attack roll, so you can go out and make defense rolls on any character you want and it'll calculate the MoS and damage location and whatnot. I'm not sure if they've got Only War support coded, but the last time I checked, they had Black Crusade, so it's probably already done by now.
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Jul 15, 2012 19:15
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Roll20 is simply the best online system for roleplaying I have ever used and I suggest you make the switch. Very easy to use, very powerful, very intuitive.
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Jul 15, 2012 20:57
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Maptool is really good to ease into - you don't have to go whole hog and set up every possible thing in it (although you certainly can, there is a great module for the game). We started out using it just for the map functions during combats, throwing up a basic layout and some player/enemy tokens for people. I've been working on integrating more and more stuff, so at this point I have character tokens for the players with all their characteristics and equipment attached, and can set up adventure maps with fog of war and line of sight/lighting restrictions. It's not hard to grasp and it's pretty awesome. KSAF Staff Report posted:Roll20 is simply the best online system for roleplaying I have ever used and I suggest you make the switch. Very easy to use, very powerful, very intuitive. I've never seen this before, though. Running the whole thing in a browser is very appealing, so I'll have to take a look and see how it compares with Maptool.
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Jul 15, 2012 21:55
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Ashcans posted:I've never seen this before, though. Running the whole thing in a browser is very appealing, so I'll have to take a look and see how it compares with Maptool. Roll20 is pretty feature-light compared with Maptools, but it's a lot easier to get started running games in it. My advice would be to start up in Roll20 and when things it can't do start bugging you, look at Maptools because it probably can. They just added card decks to Roll20, by the time you need a feature it might have it. There is of course a thread for it, http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3478754
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Jul 15, 2012 22:00
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So Koronus Bestiary has just come out- anyone willing to take a look at it and give a review?
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Jul 16, 2012 05:28
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Pointed out Roll20 to my GM and he took a look. Liked it a lot better than map tools, but didn't like that you could only reveal fog of way in rectangle shapes (meaning revealing a large rounded area would be a huge pain) and that he couldn't figure out a way to rapidly change the background image.
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Jul 16, 2012 05:36
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Jumping in late on bipod chat, but I'd let anyone using a basic weapon to be allowed to setup with a restricted aiming field and gain fully aimed bonus without having to aim. I guess. Maybe something better/cooler. Increased range perhaps + aim bonus.
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Jul 16, 2012 06:39
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Don't remember seeing it but FFG has announced a new book for Deathwatch - The Outer Reach. http://fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=3415 Looks like it focuses on mystery, Necrons and some sort of shadowy organisation called the Dead Cabal. edit: Apparently the Dead Cabal was introduced in Achilus Assault. I guess this expands on that.
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Jul 16, 2012 07:28
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There's also this: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joshuha/tabletop-forge-the-virtual-tabletop-for-google-han?ref=email quote:Tabletop Forge is a virtual tabletop application that lives inside of a Google+ Hangout. The application allows you to play pen & paper roleplaying games as well as strategy/board games online with other players from around the world. I funded it simply because I think it'd be easier than maptools.
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Jul 16, 2012 07:50
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Now that Necrons have been retconned into being actually interesting, I'm looking forward to what FFG can do with them.
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Jul 16, 2012 08:04
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Hodgepodge posted:Now that Necrons have been retconned into being actually interesting, I'm looking forward to what FFG can do with them. What? When did this happen?
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Jul 16, 2012 08:33
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The new codex, apparently they're more like tombkings in space or something now. Not that FFG can do too much, I don't think they can make huge sweeping changes to the setting. Given All their games take place in the 810s.M41, well over a century before the perpetual "now" of the tabletop game, Necrons haven't even "officially" been encountered yet by the Imperium, so whatever happens in Death Watch stays small scale (relative to the Imperium) and gets hushed up quick.
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Jul 16, 2012 08:40
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Yeah. The Necrons now turned on the C'Tan shortly after they won their war with the Old Ones and either killed them or shattered them into controllable "fragments" when possible. The fragments aren't as god-like as the C'Tan were and don't have enough of their original essence to be truly self-aware, but like the Avatars of Khaine they are certainly able to bring the wrath of a god onto the battlefield. The Necrons are now led by those members of their original nobility that were important enough to retain their individuality. These are split into various factions with their own agendas, as well as a few which are entirely insane. So you now have Necron units with unique personalities, abilities, and goals. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Jul 16, 2012 |
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Jul 16, 2012 09:11
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Galaga Galaxian posted:The new codex, apparently they're more like tombkings in space or something now. Black Crusade takes place in a post-Cron galaxy, as it seems the Screaming Vortex dudes knows about them. Besides, who pays attention to the timeline anyway? It doesn't seem to make much difference whether or not your Forbidden Lore: Xenos covers the 'Crons or not.
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Jul 16, 2012 10:11
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CommissarMega posted:So Koronus Bestiary has just come out- anyone willing to take a look at it and give a review? I'm rather pleased with it, though it's not outright excellent. The fluff varies in quality, though it never dips below average, but the book offers up a huge number of things to murder your players with. It also accommodates all levels of play. There's plenty of stuff to threaten a low ranked group with, and at the other end of the spectrum you've got the horror that is Craftworld Eldar and the Yu'vath's creations. Quick overview of each chapter below. •Beasties - Giant armoured swamp snakes that eat people whole, warp beasts literally borne of nightmares and a 3km long void kraken are a few of the things you'll find in this chapter. A diverse array of creatures, far more hits than misses and each preceded by the story from a long suffering Arch-Militant trying to stop her trophy-obsessed employer from getting himself killed. You'll find something in here that'll threaten all but the most powerful of characters. A great start to the book. •Xenos - The sentient kind. Aforementioned Arch-Militant talks less here and there's a lot of fluff for each of the species. Craftworld Eldar get a crapload of stuff, some of it outright terrifying. Certain Aspects are going to butcher groups, with the Wraithlord being in reserve for if they don't finish the job. That didn't work? Throw the Avatar of Khaine at them, a hideously tough and deadly thing made even worse by it being straight up immune to most energy damage. Orks are next, with stats for the full spectrum of mooks and oddboyz as well as the Kaptin himself. Also featured are the Stryxis, who get some good fluff, stats and art for their vat grown "meat," the Rak'Gol, who get a few statblocks for the higher end members of their murder-happy race, and the Yu'vath, who gets a good dose of fluff and stats for a few of their creations which range from "will murder you horribly" to "TPK in a can." Another good chapter. •Daemons - Undoubtedly the weakest chapter in the book, unfortunately, only featuring a half dozen creatures and most of them look like they're recycled from other books. All are iconic daemons save one, a living shadow with immense mind control powers that whispers secrets and lies into the ears of those it haunts, driving them to commit acts of sabotage. This thing sets the bar higher than any of its peers did; all the information on it is pure fluff, leaving the reader to discern its nature from the accounts of Rogue Traders, penitent clerics facing execution and other unfortunates. It's not a bad chapter, just a largely unremarkable one. •The Xenos Generator - Probably why most people will buy this book, I've only skimmed over it but it's a pretty solid set of rules. It reminds me of the one from the DH GM Kit but much more robust. It's got separate tables and rules for generating flora, fauna and primitive xenos, generally taking the form of a base creature being modified by what type creature it is and what sort of climate it inhabits. Overall it's good stuff, accompanied by some solid art and an apparent lack of typos (an FFG first). I recommend picking it up if you want to get access to the xenos generator, a bunch of stuff to murder your PCs with any a good dose of accompanying fluff. Galaga Galaxian posted:Pointed out Roll20 to my GM and he took a look. Liked it a lot better than map tools, but didn't like that you could only reveal fog of way in rectangle shapes (meaning revealing a large rounded area would be a huge pain) and that he couldn't figure out a way to rapidly change the background image. I'm said GM, and Galaga summed up what I thought. It's intuitive and easy to use, which is a definite plus. I got the grid disabled, my own gridded map uploaded and unit counters in place within 10 minutes of creation an account. The limited Fog of War really killed it for me though. Unless a map is made of straight edges and 90 degree angles it just doesn't let you hide and reveal stuff quickly and effectively. People have already raised this concern over on the roll 20 forum, so hopefully a more robust set of tools will be added in the future. It's certainly got promise and, while I doubt I'd use it as any more than an interactive tabletop for combat, I can see my group using it in the future.
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Jul 16, 2012 12:59
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