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Terry Fisher has some interesting out-of-the-box ideas regarding copyright--even makes a few of his articles available on his site. Also, congrats.
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Jul 14, 2012 01:35
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Yale has a PhD in law? http://www.law.yale.edu/news/15782.htm
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Jul 14, 2012 04:30
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tau posted:Yale has a PhD in law? Why would you want 2 doctorates in law? 
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Jul 14, 2012 05:03
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tau posted:Yale has a PhD in law? This isn't the first http://www.law.berkeley.edu/jsp.htm Also quote:The Ph.D. program is designed specifically for students whose first degree in law is a J.D. from a United States law school and is formally awarded by the Graduate School of Arts & Sciences. The J.S.D. degree is designed principally for students who received their first degree in law from non-U.S. institutions and subsequently received their LL.M. at Yale Law School. Unlike the Ph.D., the J.S.D. is awarded by Yale Law School and not the Graduate School. Basically it's a prep school for professors. Three years, first year is exams/seminars/doctrine, next two years you do the dissertation and teach a class or two: quote:The dissertation itself is expected to take the form of either a book-length manuscript or three law review articles; it will usually constitute a portfolio of writing which students can use on the job market. sigmachiev fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Jul 14, 2012 |
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Jul 14, 2012 05:28
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So what's an SJD, then? Actually, don't answer that, I don't want to be told. I loving hate american academia and I hope a strong gust of wind knocks over the Yale law school and it is never, ever rebuilt.
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Jul 14, 2012 05:49
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Agesilaus posted:So what's an SJD, then? I am confused why one would have both.
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Jul 14, 2012 06:02
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Petey posted:I am confused why one would have both. You're thinking about it wrong. It's supply and demand from the school's side. "Hell let's givem 3 law degrees if they're dumb enough to pay for it! We'll call the classes things like: Advanced Constitutional Drafting. If it adds a line to their unemployed resumes, they'll crawl through broken glass. MUAHAHAHAHA.... .... MUAHAHAHAHAHA!"
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Jul 14, 2012 06:26
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tau posted:Yale has a PhD in law? It's almost as if it's a law school that DOESN'T TEACH ANY LAW.
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Jul 14, 2012 06:40
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The Warszawa posted:It's almost as if it's a law school that DOESN'T TEACH ANY LAW. Ha. Any comment on what people are saying there? It's interesting to me because I picture myself as exactly the kind of person this program is for - interested in teaching, publications under the belt, good school but not HYS, not fixing to do social science work. And I suppose there's a ton of delusional people like me so I'm sure they'll get plenty of applications this fall.
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Jul 14, 2012 06:48
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I bet all Cooley has to do to finally go from 2 to the coveted #1 spot in the Thomas M. Cooley rankings is award a few more degrees.
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Jul 14, 2012 10:00
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Adar posted:I bet all Cooley has to do to finally go from 2 to the coveted #1 spot in the Thomas M. Cooley rankings is award a few more degrees. No, they need to add more conexes and fill then up with Stephan King cassette tape audio books. More square footage for their library and more books-per-student! Plus they could totally have a garage sale and therefore tuition would be cheaper. It's a win-win.
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Jul 14, 2012 10:10
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Entropy238 posted:I've spent a semester studying case-law based IP in a university in the British Isles that has a much better reputation than it deserves and the philosophy of it all wasn't dwelled on in any particular detail. This is helpful. What university was it?
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Jul 14, 2012 10:36
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Adar posted:I bet all Cooley has to do to finally go from 2 to the coveted #1 spot in the Thomas M. Cooley rankings is award a few more degrees. I can't wait to see your post listed as an exhibit in the next Cooley v. The Internet defamation lawsuit.
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Jul 14, 2012 14:09
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Entropy238 posted:Third year law student here, going in to final year. I'm looking for some non-textbook literature that will really push me to my limits in terms of how I think about and approach copyright and IP - hopefully from both sides of the argument - in book length, with particular reference to the digital age and in a European context. I've (probably undeservedly) landed a dream internship/part-time salaried employment in this area and I know that if I really get my poo poo together on this one it's going to kick-start my career faster than loving anything. I need cutting-edge, thought provoking poo poo yesterday if I'm going to be able to capitalize on this opportunity as much as possible. If anyone has any good authors/books/blogs they'd like to recommend it would be much appreciated. If you want to do well in your internship, show up early, leave late, work hard while in the office, be pleasant to be around, and never make the same mistake twice. No one cares about your deep thoughts about cutting edge ip issues, at all.
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Jul 14, 2012 15:37
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entris posted:If you want to do well in your internship, show up early, leave late, work hard while in the office, be pleasant to be around, and never make the same mistake twice. No one cares about your deep thoughts about cutting edge ip issues, at all. More wisdom for the OP right here.
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Jul 14, 2012 16:24
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woozle wuzzle posted:You're thinking about it wrong. Actually the more I think about it the more I wonder if YLS is just trying to basically create a PhD curriculum for law. I mean the SJD is so esoteric anyway and my understanding is that the PhD in law is common in other countries, so maybe they think they can just basically be "gently caress it we're Yale" and create the new academic law curriculum?
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Jul 14, 2012 17:46
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Petey posted:Actually the more I think about it the more I wonder if YLS is just trying to basically create a PhD curriculum for law. I mean the SJD is so esoteric anyway and my understanding is that the PhD in law is common in other countries, so maybe they think they can just basically be "gently caress it we're Yale" and create the new academic law curriculum? Yeah, the way that people move into legal academia is very odd right now: jumping through just the right hoops to get into the right clerkships, writing some big quirky articles, etc. The fact that law professors don't ever have to defend a dissertation is odd to me, maybe this is an effort on Yale's part to move in that direction.
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Jul 14, 2012 20:41
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MechaFrogzilla posted:Yeah, the way that people move into legal academia is very odd right now: jumping through just the right hoops to get into the right clerkships, writing some big quirky articles, etc. The fact that law professors don't ever have to defend a dissertation is odd to me, maybe this is an effort on Yale's part to move in that direction. Movement maybe but it's a baby step at most since there's going to be like 5-10 people in that first class at the most.
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Jul 15, 2012 02:25
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sigmachiev posted:Movement maybe but it's a baby step at most since there's going to be like 5-10 people in that first class at the most. Agreed, but my guess would be their long game is to make it so that other schools follow suit, creating a more traditional academic study of law for legal academics, and their influence + a decade or two of practice (and graduates of the PhD program being top candidates) will change things. Like right now some people can get into law professorships by coming out of HYS and getting clerkships. Other get a dual JD/PhD and then teach at universities. But if you offered a legal PhD, with a dissertation and a real academic training like Mecha said, that makes more sense. With that said: a number of law professors I know have told me the reason they like being law professors (as opposed to, say, poli sci / culture studies / etc professors) is specifically because they can write as practitioners and not have to deal with theory. This is why law profs have a poor rep among other academics, but also why some people who prefer to write within the bubble of practice without having to master a larger corpus of theory like being law profs. I could see that being considered a loss for some people, though it would probably make the legal literature more bearable. Petey fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Jul 15, 2012 |
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Jul 15, 2012 02:45
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Petey posted:Agreed, but my guess would be their long game is to make it so that other schools follow suit, creating a more traditional academic study of law for legal academics, and their influence + a decade or two of practice (and graduates of the PhD program being top candidates) will change things. This is just my opinion, but law professors who do have theory chops tend to be more interesting. Check out the school integration work by Laurie Edelmen for an example. But as I said earlier, most law students, even ones who are serious about being teachers, are either scared/turned off/incapable of getting into nitty gritty coding or theoretical work that comes with most PhDs. I think Yale should at least offer a Research Design course with this. A law profession should know what content analysis is, what a good survey looks like, etc.
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Jul 15, 2012 04:42
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Petey posted:not have to deal with theory bwaaahahahahahah
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Jul 15, 2012 06:30
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Just heard I get 3 months' funding from my law school to do public interest work in internship of my choice (litigating for my state government) during the period post bar exam but pre bar results. Hoping to bust my loving rear end off and get hired full-time once I'm licensed. Can anyone please tell me what I should know about working the state? I worked for a different agency last fall and it was awesome as heck and dear god I hope all state agencies are awesome as heck.
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Jul 15, 2012 07:07
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Hiring law professors that are even more divorced from reality than the current crop sounds like a good idea if you're a law school and pretty awful if you're actually trying to learn to practice law. But we all know schools don't teach that and never will, so sure, let's go full bore on critical thinking implications of the Rule Against Perpetuities for three years. Maybe it'll get more people to drop out! e: I look forward to a modern legal theorist trying to argue a case in front of a 7-2 conservative Supreme Court. "Social science surveys have repeatedly stated" *Thomas snores* Adar fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Jul 15, 2012 |
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Jul 15, 2012 10:16
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Petey posted:With that said: a number of law professors I know have told me the reason they like being law professors (as opposed to, say, poli sci / culture studies / etc professors) is specifically because they can write as practitioners and not have to deal with theory. This is why law profs have a poor rep among other academics, but also why some people who prefer to write within the bubble of practice without having to master a larger corpus of theory like being law profs. I could see that being considered a loss for some people, though it would probably make the legal literature more bearable.
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Jul 15, 2012 10:33
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After critically thinking about it a bit more, I'd like law schools to be split into two tracks: the t14 can continue to teach legal theory while 15- must only teach the actual practice of law. Citing legal theories on an exam in a school below the t14 or citing any kind of actual case within the t14 will both result in automatic failures. If a school falls out of the top 14, it must switch on the same day the rankings are released. Ties at the bottom of the rankings will be settled by an elaborate Swiss bracket of duels at the courthouse square at dawn. This will make more sense than the hypothetical Yale plan and be more entertaining at the same time.
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Jul 15, 2012 10:46
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Ani posted:What percentage of law professors have non-trivial experience practicing law? I'm guessing it's around 0%.
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Jul 15, 2012 12:37
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Abugadu posted:Older law profs usually have some experience. Any of them under 40, probably not. Most of the new ones come straight out of a clerkship.
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Jul 15, 2012 13:29
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In Australia you are strongly discouraged from going into academia without a few years experience in practice. Some people do but it's certainly not the norm.
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Jul 15, 2012 13:39
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Neurosis posted:In Australia you are strongly discouraged from going into academia without a few years experience in practice. Some people do but it's certainly not the norm. And it is totally the opposite in the tenure-track academia here, it is one of the most bizarre things about the whole institution imo. I don't know why it is, maybe just keeping them in "pure" academia or something, to make sure their law review articles are as useless as possible. Some of my favorite law classes were taught by adjuncts, learning from actual practitioners owns.
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Jul 15, 2012 15:44
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MechaFrogzilla posted:And it is totally the opposite in the tenure-track academia here, it is one of the most bizarre things about the whole institution imo. I don't know why it is, maybe just keeping them in "pure" academia or something, to make sure their law review articles are as useless as possible. An extremely well-known professor in her field at Yale once said "I was pretty much told by most faculty hiring committees that I had been out in practice too long to be a professor." She had spent 2 years in the public sector. Also, Sig, no one has any clue what the PhD in Law is going to look like, it's Post's baby I think.
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Jul 15, 2012 15:57
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Adar posted:e: I look forward to a modern legal theorist trying to argue a case in front of a 7-2 conservative Supreme Court. "Social science surveys have repeatedly stated" *Thomas snores* So, in other words, it'll be exactly the same since Thomas already is asleep/in his own universe 99% of the time anyway? 
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Jul 15, 2012 16:04
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MechaFrogzilla posted:Some of my favorite law classes were taught by adjuncts, learning from actual practitioners owns. Law school classes taught by people with actual experience are always better; I learnt far more in the one class I did that was run by judges than I did in all the aimless lectures given by tenured yailures. The Warszawa posted:An extremely well-known professor in her field at Yale once said "I was pretty much told by most faculty hiring committees that I had been out in practice too long to be a professor." haha, how pathetic, law school academics are truly a wretched people.
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Jul 15, 2012 16:14
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sigmachiev posted:This is just my opinion, but law professors who do have theory chops tend to be more interesting. That's what I was trying to say (and may not have been very clear about). Part of the reason most law reviews / law profs have a mediocre reputation among other academics is because it's basically like "welp here is a bunch of precedent I guess it's authoritative" without pulling back to look at larger contexts like Mensch or Kennedy or others do in their work about law and how it works. The issue, of course, is: Adar posted:Hiring law professors that are even more divorced from reality than the current crop sounds like a good idea if you're a law school and pretty awful if you're actually trying to learn to practice law. That you don't really need to have a CLS understanding to be a practitioner (in fact it probably hurts). Maybe YLS thinks it can become the hub of training faculty to teach law and society curricula at undergraduate institutions plus some elective classes at the law school level? Or maybe they just don't give a gently caress. quote:
This is pretty much exactly what Lessig said went wrong with his strategy in Eldred v Ashcroft btw.
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Jul 15, 2012 16:17
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HolySwissCheese posted:Just heard I get 3 months' funding from my law school to do public interest work in internship of my choice (litigating for my state government) during the period post bar exam but pre bar results. Hoping to bust my loving rear end off and get hired full-time once I'm licensed. Work hard but don't kill yourself working to the point of not meeting people, get around and meet as many people as possible in a non-annoying, casual way. If you receive any positive emails or evaluations, save them and reference them when you apply for a full-time position. Ideally get your hands on a good writing sample. I think state agencies are generally pretty awesome.
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Jul 15, 2012 16:21
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HolySwissCheese posted:Just heard I get 3 months' funding from my law school to do public interest work in internship of my choice (litigating for my state government) during the period post bar exam but pre bar results. Hoping to bust my loving rear end off and get hired full-time once I'm licensed. This is exactly what I did post-graduation. I got hired though i'd say it was at least sonewhat luck - a position opened up in the division I was working in, so my supervisor was able to recommend me to the hiring team. My advice is to try and not act like a stereotypical "state worker". If you dont have enough work to do, ask for more. Basically act professionally, like its a firm job, and you'll stand out. Edit waaait a sec, youre in Austin? Are you coming to OAG? TheBestDeception fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jul 15, 2012 |
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Jul 15, 2012 17:07
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Ani posted:What percentage of law professors have non-trivial experience practicing law? I'm guessing it's around 0%. Here we have a decent number of practitioners who teach courses. Last year my advocacy course was taught by a criminal defence lawyer, my negotiations class was taught by a corporate securities lawyer, civ pro was taught by a civil litigation lawyer and evidence was taught by a prof who also runs the legal clinic. The downside is that occasionally they have too much of their own poo poo going on to be bothered with you. Zarkov Cortez fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jul 15, 2012 |
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Jul 15, 2012 17:58
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MechaFrogzilla posted:And it is totally the opposite in the tenure-track academia here, it is one of the most bizarre things about the whole institution imo. I don't know why it is, maybe just keeping them in "pure" academia or something, to make sure their law review articles are as useless as possible. This is an area I'm always concerned about now that I'm teaching full-time and no longer practicing. I worry about getting out of touch with the reality of practice and ever-changing laws. In fact, in my class this summer I didn't realize a law had changed a few months ago and a student pointed the change out to me. That was kind of embarrassing. I really need to make a more purposeful effort to make sure I'm up on these kinds of things.
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Jul 15, 2012 23:26
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TheBestDeception posted:This is exactly what I did post-graduation. I got hired though i'd say it was at least sonewhat luck - a position opened up in the division I was working in, so my supervisor was able to recommend me to the hiring team. I bought plat to message you but you don't have plat =-/ hit me up at holy.swiss.cheese@gmail.com
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Jul 16, 2012 01:00
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Zarkov Cortez posted:Here we have a decent number of practitioners who teach courses. Last year my advocacy course was taught by a criminal defence lawyer, my negotiations class was taught by a corporate securities lawyer, civ pro was taught by a civil litigation lawyer and evidence was taught by a prof who also runs the legal clinic. This is a downside? But it's my experience as well, I'd say about half my classes in 2L and 3L were taught by people with significant practice experience. It seriously owned. 
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Jul 16, 2012 03:11
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Dallan Invictus posted:This is a downside? But it's my experience as well, I'd say about half my classes in 2L and 3L were taught by people with significant practice experience. It seriously owned. Also clinics. If you graduate law school without doing as many clinics as you can, you're a fool. Minnesota is basically south Canada though.
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Jul 16, 2012 04:45
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