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Those sprues are from the empire wizard box from fantasy. I think.
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Jul 15, 2012 22:58
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S.J. posted:The reason (well, one reason) that associative/dissociative mechanics are stupid to try and introduce/worry about is because we're talking about games where you can make up whatever reasoning you want to justify a mechanical change - what a designer should be worried about is the mechanical interactions, not the non-mechanical justifications for a rule. Making sure that a system of rules interacts properly should be their only priority as rules designers; justifying those rules in-game can be done afterwards. Yeah, but the dissociative thing is about the quality of those non-mechanical justifications; whether they appeal to our intuition or not. I can imagine a brilliant set of elegant interacting rules that just didn't "feel" like a battle.
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Jul 15, 2012 22:58
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Miles O'Brian posted:I was hoping you would say something that I could quote the first half of and react angrily but it sort of falls apart here.  
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Jul 15, 2012 23:03
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Safety Factor posted:Those sprues are from the empire wizard box from fantasy. I think. They definitely are. I am looking at my own right now.
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Jul 15, 2012 23:09
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Thanks for the information all. I'm wavering back and forth on whether or not it was a good idea buying this stuff, but I couldn't pass it up for $20.
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Jul 15, 2012 23:11
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I'll give you 40 plus shipping for it right now.
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Jul 15, 2012 23:13
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Poisoned weapons give +1 WS because Orks think they do. There.
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Jul 15, 2012 23:16
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AgentF posted:Yeah, but the dissociative thing is about the quality of those non-mechanical justifications; whether they appeal to our intuition or not. I can imagine a brilliant set of elegant interacting rules that just didn't "feel" like a battle. Nah, to say that any game "feels" like a battle is pretty bullshit, and much of why games "feel" right to us is because we're familiar with their rules. Don't legitimize this dis/associated bullshit any more than the GW staff already has. It's a concept created as a post-hoc justification for childish D&D edition warring, and we don't need that poo poo spreading to the hams community.
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Jul 15, 2012 23:17
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Empire wizard sprues. You've basically got a Nurgle demon weapon there, at the very least! Hope the rules for them aren't so awful in the next book! edit: whoops new page
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Jul 15, 2012 23:29
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We've all been on our hands and knees, scraping every inch of the rug in hopes of recovering that one awesome or irreplaceable bit. Some of us have probably pulled up heating vent covers and jammed our arms into the mysterious nether regions of our homes to feel out that piece that bounced into the darkness below. Recently, I may have stepped into the realm of crazy person with my latest recovery effort. My story begins, as many good stories do, with cheesecake. I was having desert at the kitchen table while I fooled around with some necron immortals I had blue tacked together before painting. As I'm stuffing my face, the dog is dutifully guarding the floor space nearby to ensure no crumbs of food invade this otherwise immaculate surface. Because I eat like a savage, crumbs of crust are flying all over the place and the dog is vacuuming them up with his face as fast as they fall. This is when one of my immortal's heads drops off and becomes just another food-like substance for the dog to clean up. I crawled around on the floor, I shined a flashlight into the nearby vent, and I brushed off the table, chair, and my clothes. No luck. It was obvious where the head went. My girlfriend could see my mind working feverishly, as I contemplated the alimentary canal of eight month old puppy dogs, and she insisted that I not even think about it, but it was too late. I simply said, "If I'm patient, I can get this head back." Well, several days have passed and no head. Other larger things have appeared, and I'm afraid the lonely Immortal head may have slipped through my fingers (so to speak). On a positive note, walking around my backyard is no longer the minefield it used to be. So, that's my tale of madness. I'd like to hope I would never fall this far down the rabbit hole again, but when the bit recovery fever strikes you, you never know where you'll find yourself when the haze lifts. Anybody else go a bit mad? Someone please help me to feel less the lunatic... (Dakka)
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Jul 15, 2012 23:32
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All I got out of that was: "I eat like a savage." --Dakka
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Jul 15, 2012 23:38
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"I checked poop for manchild toy parts. --Dakka
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Jul 15, 2012 23:41
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A Fancy Bloke posted:We've all been on our hands and knees, scraping every inch of the rug in hopes of recovering that one awesome or irreplaceable bit. Some of us have probably pulled up heating vent covers and jammed our arms into the mysterious nether regions of our homes to feel out that piece that bounced into the darkness below. Recently, I may have stepped into the realm of crazy person with my latest recovery effort. My story begins, as many good stories do, with cheesecake. I was having desert at the kitchen table while I fooled around with some necron immortals I had blue tacked together before painting. As I'm stuffing my face, the dog is dutifully guarding the floor space nearby to ensure no crumbs of food invade this otherwise immaculate surface. Because I eat like a savage, crumbs of crust are flying all over the place and the dog is vacuuming them up with his face as fast as they fall. This is when one of my immortal's heads drops off and becomes just another food-like substance for the dog to clean up. I crawled around on the floor, I shined a flashlight into the nearby vent, and I brushed off the table, chair, and my clothes. No luck. It was obvious where the head went. My ex-girlfriend could see my mind working feverishly, as I contemplated the alimentary canal of eight month old puppy dogs, and she insisted that I not even think about it, but it was too late. I simply said, "If I'm patient, I can get this head back." Well, several days have passed and no head. Other larger things have appeared, and I'm afraid the lonely Immortal head may have slipped through my fingers (so to speak). On a positive note, walking around my backyard is no longer the minefield it used to be. I felt a minor correction was in order.
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Jul 15, 2012 23:45
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PeterWeller posted:I felt a minor correction was in order. Bravo, sir.
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Jul 15, 2012 23:50
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I once lost a Necron head while gluing it to my dude. Long story short, I couldn't find it on the floor and stole a head from my Ghost Ark after ten minutes of cursing. A week later I reach down to scratch my crotch and feel a hard lump on my pants. Head rediscovered. Nobody understood my elation. True story.
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Jul 15, 2012 23:50
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That edit was worth hunting for.
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Jul 15, 2012 23:55
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I disassembled the under-sink plumbing in my bathroom to find a pair of Forgeworld Epic Tau Firewarriors that had made a break for it as I was rinsing them off after washing off the releasing agent. It was all, thankfully, PVC piping so no tools required but still... plumbing is nasty.
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Jul 15, 2012 23:56
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moths posted:That edit was worth hunting for. As soon as I realized I couldn't see it I knew exactly what it was. It was like a Magic Eye. I just let my focus go, and boom. Sailboat.
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Jul 16, 2012 00:07
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S.J. posted:The reason (well, one reason) that associative/dissociative mechanics are stupid to try and introduce/worry about is because we're talking about games where you can make up whatever reasoning you want to justify a mechanical change - what a designer should be worried about is the mechanical interactions, not the non-mechanical justifications for a rule. Making sure that a system of rules interacts properly should be their only priority as rules designers; justifying those rules in-game can be done afterwards. I think this argument implies something that I'm not really aware of since I don't know the whole D&D thing behind it but as far as I can tell it should just mean "We named the rules as appropriately as we could." If you make a rule that gives you rerolls to penetrate vehicle armor you could name it Tankhunters or Move Through Cover but one name is a lot easier to justify than the other (I realize that's kind of silly to the extreme). I can't even think of anything that wasn't very appropriately named in 5E anyway so it's kind of silly to argue about.
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Jul 16, 2012 00:20
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So does "monkey cheese" just mean "anything random at all, assuming I dont like it" now?
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Jul 16, 2012 01:04
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Dominion posted:So does "monkey cheese" just mean "anything random at all, assuming I dont like it" now? So you really can't understand how people who wanted to play Possessed Space Marines or Weirdboyz or assault-intensive armies in general might be a little put off by random die rolls? Or that a portion of the player base that got used to things like fixed assault distances and being able to choose psyker powers might rankle a little at what appear to be arbitrary changes?
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Jul 16, 2012 01:11
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I, for one, was incensed when they started using D6's and moved away from the tried and true "I shot that guy, he's dead. Nuh uh, he blocked!" model of narrative gameplay. The orks always won the war of sound-effect attrition, though. Cheesy as all hell.
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Jul 16, 2012 01:15
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Fix posted:I, for one, was incensed when they started using D6's and moved away from the tried and true "I shot that guy, he's dead. Nuh uh, he blocked!" model of narrative gameplay. This is why I always enjoy reading your posts 
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Jul 16, 2012 01:20
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Burn all dice rolls. Now when your unit fires they remove a space marine per 10 shootas.
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Jul 16, 2012 01:36
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Mathhammer supremacy. Only when the game is ruled by absolute numbers can army of the Ordo Administratum finally take its place at the Emperor's right hand and all of man will be consumed by the maw of C'Tan Abbacus.
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Jul 16, 2012 01:40
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I lost a plaguebearer in the back yard and of course he is the perfect color scheme to blend in and never be found. I'll always be missing that one crucial part.
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Jul 16, 2012 01:42
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Yeah, remember all this delighted chortling the next time you roll snake eyes for a charge.
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Jul 16, 2012 01:48
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Snollygoster posted:Yeah, remember all this delighted chortling the next time you roll snake eyes for a charge. Fleet of Foot. 
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Jul 16, 2012 01:52
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Snollygoster posted:So you really can't understand how people who wanted to play Possessed Space Marines or Weirdboyz or assault-intensive armies in general might be a little put off by random die rolls? Or that a portion of the player base that got used to things like fixed assault distances and being able to choose psyker powers might rankle a little at what appear to be arbitrary changes? I understand the anger over possessed and weirdboyz because those are random to the point of being terrible. 2d6 charge range and rolling within a school for powers isn't "monkey cheese" or random for the sake of randomness. They're just different game mechanics. It's not like you roll to see if you are a robot ninja zombie squirrel or whatever.
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Jul 16, 2012 01:54
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I don't know what all this dis/associative imagination poo poo is about, but my favorite thing to imagine in 40k are the sick sound effects for my guys. My bolter fire noises and explosions are solid, but 6e is making me focus more on getting my zooming flyer noises up to par. I'm working of different noises for hovering and zooming.
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Jul 16, 2012 01:55
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Snollygoster posted:Yeah, remember all this delighted chortling the next time you roll snake eyes for a charge. Oddly enough, my thought process for the random charge ranges has been something along the lines it being pretty much a net gain because in most games I've played, charging in open terrain was always the exception rather than the rule.
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Jul 16, 2012 02:00
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Snollygoster posted:Yeah, remember all this delighted chortling the next time you roll snake eyes for a charge. I will, and I'll probably laugh again because of how inept my men are. Then my friend will aggressively shout at me to "roll better" and we'll giggle a bit. At a later date we'll laugh about it again when reminiscing about standout moments in games gone by. Like that one time my Khorne Lieutenant saved 18 wounds in one phase while trouncing some Tau. Or that time in Fantasy when I actually rolled the Purple Sun of Xereus for one of my Wizard's spells, and used it to twat a huge swathe of Skaven regiments.
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Jul 16, 2012 02:02
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moths posted:"Disassociative" is shorthand for "I have a bad imagination". In his example, he says poisoned weapons giving +1WS is Disassociative. Because having a poisonous blade can't make you better at swords! You know, except that if you only need to scratch your opponent, well maybe that makes up for the difference in skill.
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Jul 16, 2012 02:05
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No you have to look at all the negatives of the random stuff you guys aren't having fun right
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Jul 16, 2012 02:06
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Shaman Ooglaboogla posted:I lost a plaguebearer in the back yard and of course he is the perfect color scheme to blend in and never be found. I'll always be missing that one crucial part. Just lost one part of a Termagaunt Devourer weapon not a few minutes ago He is now the veteran of the squad. Old one arm
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Jul 16, 2012 02:20
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Babe Magnet posted:No you have to look at all the negatives of the random stuff you guys aren't having fun right No you have to ignore the badly designed and poorly thought out stuff in the game you guys aren't having fun right
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Jul 16, 2012 02:25
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Every time people start talking about Battle Brothers, all I can think of is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2g73Xl3hQA&t=18s  ADVENTURE TIME PRO-CLICK ZONE
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Jul 16, 2012 02:38
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Or that time in Fantasy when I actually rolled the Purple Sun of Xereus for one of my Wizard's spells, and used it to twat a huge swathe of Skaven regiments. You can use twat as a verb in England?
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Jul 16, 2012 02:43
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S.J. posted:Bravo, sir. I owed you something after badmouthing phase out jokes. ghetto wormhole posted:I think this argument implies something that I'm not really aware of since I don't know the whole D&D thing behind it but as far as I can tell it should just mean "We named the rules as appropriately as we could." Yeah, you're missing the context from which the distinction emerges, which means you haven't read grognards.txt and you've avoided some terrible nonsense. I don't want to get into detail, but basically dis/associated was conceived as a post-hoc rationalization for why D&D4E's martial powers made it not "real" D&D. It's really a bunch of bullshit, and you can read the latter pages of the goldmined (and only truly gygaxian naturalistic) grognards.txt for details. Mikael Kreoss posted:That interview is grognards.txt Eh, I wouldn't go that far. Ward used a grog dog-whistle, but I think he is as naive to its origins as some of our fellow hams. Honestly, that interview gave me the impression that Ward really "gets" 40K more than we give him credit for. It's all about over the top, epic science-fantasy action, and the rules should reflect that level of craziness. Dominion posted:I understand the anger over possessed and weirdboyz because those are random to the point of being terrible. I actually don't understand the anger over possessed and weirdboyz. Their level of randomness is totally in keeping with the fluff, and presumably their fluff is why one would like them. e: !amicable posted:You can use twat as a verb in England?  That's called a nominalization, and it's a totally acceptable part of English no matter what country you're in. It's the reason why we have a nice succinct verb for "going out and trying to trick some fish into eating this stuff I put on this hook".
PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Jul 16, 2012 |
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Jul 16, 2012 02:44
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A BIG loving BLUNT posted:I've been defending Matt Ward before it was cool to defend him! You're a Hipster 40k Player? Speaking of which - Q: Why did the hipster burn his lip on the cup of coffee? A: Because he drank it before it was cool. Along with that little gem - we have released Episode 57 of The Independent Characters. http://theindependentcharacters.com/blog/?p=1957 It even includes some horrible Chinese food and duck analogies.
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Jul 16, 2012 02:58
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