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2ndclasscitizen posted:I believe that was also the year PAVE-AUBERGINE resulted in the development of sarcasm. Rack 'em. These have been some of the best posts in this thread btw, keep it up guys! I've been binging on the not your daddies' NVA these last couple of weeks and have been impressed by the German language coverage of cold war military history. There's lots of great German spoken documentaries out there like 'Feind wird Freund' which is linked in the youtube video above. It really seems like the whole Eastern Bloc dissolved when they lost their Begeisterung with lots of sources claiming the East Germans were a good force up until the late eighties. This ties in pretty nicely with what my dad saw back in the early nineties. He started up a small building company with a friend in Brandenburg and got to see the last soviet forces pulling out. In his words they looked like a "third world militia taking the brass doorknobs with them while selling off their own uniforms." Nothing like 10ft tall giants, although I wouldn't give NATO a dime's worth in the sixties or seventies either.
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Jul 14, 2012 18:03
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Sweet. C&R eligible.
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Jul 15, 2012 00:25
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Oxford Comma posted:The article says the B52 will be retired 30 years from now. Holy poo poo. Assuming an Air Force officer in his early 40's was this plane's first pilot and he and his descendants each have children at 24, theoretically his great-great-grandson or granddaughter could be the one flying it to the boneyard at Davis Monthan.
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Jul 15, 2012 00:47
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Craptacular posted:Assuming an Air Force officer in his early 40's was this plane's first pilot and he and his descendants each have children at 24, theoretically his great-great-grandson or granddaughter could be the one flying it to the boneyard at Davis Monthan. I'm gonna go ahead and TOXX MYSELF and say that the B52s will still be flying well after 2042. 
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Jul 15, 2012 02:44
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Oxford Comma posted:I'm gonna go ahead and TOXX MYSELF and say that the B52s will still be flying well after 2042. That's not much of a gamble if you also count NASA or private use. Even after the USAF is done with them, someone will want them, I bet.
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Jul 15, 2012 02:49
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If I become an Internet billionaire my private jet would be a B52 (with an X15 runabout)
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Jul 15, 2012 03:13
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Cool, thanks. I was wondering why the wings were so stubby.
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Jul 15, 2012 03:56
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mlmp08 posted:That's not much of a gamble if you also count NASA or private use. Even after the USAF is done with them, someone will want them, I bet. Fair enough. How about the B52s will continue to form a substantial part of America's bomber fleet?
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Jul 15, 2012 04:25
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Terrifying Effigies posted:Blue Streak Thank you for an excellent read :-)
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Jul 15, 2012 11:56
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Cyrano4747 posted:Sweet. C&R eligible. Technically NRHP and NHPA eligible too, which means NEPA analysis, if you wanted to slow down anything bad from happening to them.
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Jul 15, 2012 14:23
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Sometimes B-52s suffered from structural deficiencies at a very young age.  http://s211.photobucket.com/albums/bb283/INTERNETRACECAR/Greenville%20B52/ N183CS and myself visited the Greenville B-52 crash site at the tail end of our kayaking trip, and I took a bunch of pictures with an awful phone camera. I'd go into detail about the accident but many others have done a far better job before me. http://www.mewreckchasers.com/B52C.html Here's some accompanying footage from the post-crash search, too. http://www.criticalpast.com/products/location_history/Maine_United_States/1960/1963 And finally, an article about the structural issues and the disturbing number of aircraft they claimed in the early part of the BUFF's life. http://www.talkingproud.us/Military/B52%20No%20Tail/B52NoTail.html
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Jul 15, 2012 15:43
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Russia's Missile Forces have Sledgehammers for opening malfunctioning launch code safes. People used to worry about Russia's nuclear arsenal being secure. Well, evidently we were worrying about the wrong nation: British nukes were protected by bike locks 
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Jul 16, 2012 02:06
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Nebakenezzer posted:Russia's Missile Forces have Sledgehammers for opening malfunctioning launch code safes. When you think about it, it's really not any worse than all the military computers out there with the password written on a sticky taped to the monitor.
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Jul 16, 2012 02:17
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Armyman25 posted:When you think about it, it's really not any worse than all the military computers out there with the password written on a sticky taped to the monitor. Hey man, real miliatary pros put that password on a sticky note on the underside of the keyboard 
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Jul 16, 2012 02:32
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Both better than ours -- for a long time the US launch code was "0000000."
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Jul 16, 2012 02:32
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Delivery McGee posted:Both better than ours -- for a long time the US launch code was "0000000." "It's like the code an idiot would have for his luggage!"
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Jul 16, 2012 02:35
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Oh, it's not all that bad -- it was actually eight digits (and the other one was also 0). It didn't really matter, though, because one of the few men who knew the code at the time was General Curtis "Bombs Away" LeMay, who was basically the inspiration for Brig. Gen. Ripper in Dr. Strangelove. Except LeMay had the big red button for all of SAC, not just one bomber wing as in the movie. It's really amazing that we avoided WWIII with LeMay in charge, because he was, to put it charitably, BATSHIT loving INSANE.
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Jul 16, 2012 03:11
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Delivery McGee posted:Oh, it's not all that bad -- it was actually eight digits (and the other one was also 0). It didn't really matter, though, because one of the few men who knew the code at the time was General Curtis "Bombs Away" LeMay, who was basically the inspiration for Brig. Gen. Ripper in Dr. Strangelove. Except LeMay had the big red button for all of SAC, not just one bomber wing as in the movie. Point of order, Ripper wasn't inspired by LeMay. LeMay was the inspiration (in part) for Buck Turgidson. Ripper was inspired by someone far more insane...LeMay's replacement as CINCSAC, Thomas S. Power. I'll quote myself from this post: quote:This dumb son of a bitch didn't even have a college education. He was the last flag officer in U.S. history to not have an undergraduate degree. His entry will be much shorter than Momyer's but he makes the list for one reason: not only did he try to start WWIII, he firmly believed global thermonuclear war would be a good thing. He was a bomber guy through and through, flying missions over Italy and North Africa during WWII and taking part in the fire raids on Japan. He rose through the ranks after the war until he took command of SAC from Curtis LeMay in 1957. Although Power was publicly considered LeMay's protégé, privately LeMay stated that Power was "not stable" and a "sadist." Let me say that again. This is a dude who CURTIS loving LEMAY considered unstable and a sadist. During a discussion of a counterforce strategy (where you target the other side's nuclear weapons in an attempt to disarm them while restraining from targeting population centers vs a countervalue strategy where you intentionally target the other side's population) he stated "Restraint? Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards. At the end of the war if there are two Americans and one Russian left alive, we win!" That was not a joke, or dark humor...that was what he honestly believed. Finally, when SAC went to DEFCON II during the Cuban Missile Crisis he broadcast , on his own authority, a message in the clear (ensuring the Soviet's would receive it) that basically said in so many words: "Hey you communist fuckers, we're ready, willing, and just itching to drop some bombs on you, bring it on." Then SAC bombers pressed towards their fail-safe lines, knowing the Soviets would be monitoring them. He was the inspiration for General Ripper...you know, the dude in Dr. Strangelove who obsesses about Communist sapping his precious bodily fluids, orders an unauthorized nuclear strike, and then blows his head off. Kind of says it all. So, yeah. And honestly, I wouldn't characterize LeMay as insane. He had some..."interesting"...views, and he definitely had the wrong approach during the Cuban Missile Crisis, but I don't think he was insane. Now Power, on the other hand, was probably insane at least to some degree. Like I said above, LeMay stated that he was "not stable" and "a sadist."
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Jul 16, 2012 05:03
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How does somebody with that questionable level of leadership get pushed up through the ranks without somebody whispering in Eisenhower's or Kennedy's ear that just maaaaaaaaaybe he should be given a Pentagon desk job where he cant touch anything important?
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Jul 16, 2012 05:54
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Since you guys have been BUFFing things out for a few pages I figure this is a good time to mention that 005, the second-oldest B-52 after Balls 8, was recently given a pretty decent makeover for it's new pedestal placement in from the Denver air museum. Pretty fella. You can see severe ribbing in a few places but it's lightyears ahead of how it looked a year ago.
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Jul 16, 2012 06:46
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iyaayas01 posted:SAC leadership You're right, LeMay wanted to win, and if that required killing a few So, amended: LeMay was ... not really the sort of man you want in charge of The Bomb. His replacement was worse.
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Jul 16, 2012 08:11
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Delivery McGee posted:You're right, LeMay wanted to win, and if that required killing a few I'll agree with that. And I think that even extends to Dr. Strangelove...Turgidson (LeMay) just wants to run SAC and roll around in bed with his hot secretary, but when Ripper goes off the deep end he advocates sending the rest of SAC in after Ripper's bombers because "it is necessary now to make a choice, to choose between two admittedly regrettable, but nevertheless *distinguishable*, postwar environments: one where you got twenty million people killed, and the other where you got a hundred and fifty million people killed." Ripper (Power) was just flat out insane.
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Jul 16, 2012 09:01
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Yeah, wiki says: 'although Power was LeMay's protégé, LeMay himself was quoted as privately saying that Power was mentally "not stable" and a "sadist".' LeMay was the wild west gunslinger, all "shoot first, ask questions later" and Power was more in the vein of "kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out." Between the two of them, that's why modern nukes need authorization from the President (or successor) and four keys turned simultaneously to launch. Because you've got 50/50 odds of one of the two keyholders having a second thought, and better odds on one of the two's subordinates being rational and putting a bullet in his brain before he can turn the keys. Edit: On a similar note, there's the sealed letter from the Prime Minister that the British boomer captains only open when they can't pick up a BBC signal for a week. Chillbro Baggins fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Jul 16, 2012 |
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Jul 16, 2012 09:20
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I was going to say "it's amazing how these people get into those positions", but it happens all the loving time. While he wasn't in any position to do anything dangerous, our old CO was a real loving space cadet. The guy had no idea what was going on, it was like there was a thick plate of one-way glass between him and the real world.
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Jul 16, 2012 09:24
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rossmum posted:I was going to say "it's amazing how these people get into those positions", but it happens all the loving time. Kinda scary that the Dilbert Principle is just as effective in government as it is in business.
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Jul 16, 2012 09:29
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Nebakenezzer posted:Well, evidently we were worrying about the wrong nation: Unfortunately I can't find the source, but I'm fairly sure that during the cold war, the key to arm the nukes was held by a man in a fairly isolated wooden shed stationed on the airfield with a bicycle. The idea being that if things needed to go up, they needed to go as fast as possible. So the chap would grab the key and cycle out and arm everything. I watched an interview with one of those men who were stationed in the shed and it was pretty interesting, they basically said that there was little to no security as that would just slow them down if they were needed.
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Jul 16, 2012 10:33
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Nebakenezzer posted:Russia's Missile Forces have Sledgehammers for opening malfunctioning launch code safes. Sooooooo. . . Fat Ogre was in charge of British Nuke security, and the Russians were sourcing their "safes" from StackOn?
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Jul 16, 2012 14:35
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Nebakenezzer posted:Russia's Missile Forces have Sledgehammers for opening malfunctioning launch code safes. Meanwhile, in Britain...
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Jul 16, 2012 16:31
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iyaayas01 posted:Like I said above, LeMay stated that he was "not stable" and "a sadist." Every time the talk goes nuclear, I find out something new both fascinating and terrifying. In that article I posted, the reason the Royal Navy gave for not having safety interlocks on nuclear weapons was that they found the suggestion that any senior member of the RN would do something 'dishonorable' offensive.
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Jul 16, 2012 20:36
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That is all so very British.
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Jul 16, 2012 20:43
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My parents are renting out our old house in Ireland, and in order to make it ready we had to go through and sort a bunch of old crap. While doing this we found, among other things, a Jane's Encyclopaedia of Aviation (1990 Edition), a whole bunch of Airfix and Tanya models, and a stack of British airplane nerd magazines. Turns out my dad was just as goony as I am  Anyway, I went and took pictures of some of the articles in the magazines since there were a fair few bomber related ones. (I don't have a scanner)http://imgur.com/a/eY7Qy Despite the age (the magazines are all dated 1988-89) they're kinda cool since they aren't gung-ho about how awesome the planes are (the article on stealth aircraft mentions a sophisticated air defence system like the one the Soviets had/have can use different techniques to detect stealth bombers, such as using multiple simultaneous receivers and datalinks to catch the stray reflections) and also because most of them have cool pictures and old-fashioned cutaway drawings.
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Jul 16, 2012 21:25
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Groda posted:Meanwhile, in Britain... Pictured: Britain's cycling nuclear deterrent  He also is in possession of a cheese sandwich that can resist an impact of 4000lbs per square inch and a tomato that will eject itself prior to an accident! (This was the first thing I thought of - an obscure late period monty python bit. what a nerd)
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Jul 16, 2012 21:30
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Delivery McGee posted:You're right, LeMay wanted to win, and if that required killing a few I feel like saying "these guys were nuts" may be oversimplistic - there were just too many people with views like this at the time, on both sides. If you genuinely believed that the US / USSR world views were so incompatible that a strategic nuclear exchange and civilian casualties in the millions if not billions were inevitable, then trying to figure out how to cripple the other guy first isn't crazy, and 'acceptable losses' in the tens of millions isn't nuts when the alternative is in the hundreds of millions.
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Jul 16, 2012 21:46
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priznat posted:(This was the first thing I thought of - an obscure late period monty python bit. what a nerd) I was impressed that they had real SKSs for the firing squad. :iamafag:
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Jul 17, 2012 00:37
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Forums Terrorist posted:My parents are renting out our old house in Ireland, and in order to make it ready we had to go through and sort a bunch of old crap. While doing this we found, among other things, a Jane's Encyclopaedia of Aviation (1990 Edition), a whole bunch of Airfix and Tanya models, and a stack of British airplane nerd magazines. Turns out my dad was just as goony as I am I remember those! They sold it here in Malaysia too. I even have the exact same issue with the B1 article. The magazine was called Take Off and it was in a fortnightly collectible type. Their main draw was they used to give parts of a Tornado model kit with the first 7 issues. Predictably, their readership dropped after that...
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Jul 17, 2012 05:18
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Speaking of nuclear deterrents, here's something you don't see everyday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaLvTZqXNmU Russian ballistic missile RVs reentering over the Kamchatka test range. The two bright lines at the beginning are probably the spent upper missile stages burning up, while the three fast bright dots at the end are the actual RVs.
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Jul 20, 2012 20:55
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So that's what the last thing you'll ever see if you're on the receiving end of an ICBM looks like.
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Jul 20, 2012 20:57
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At least it's pretty...
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Jul 20, 2012 20:59
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And some footage of US RVs in this longer video of a Minuteman test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChhYOO1s-nY
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Jul 20, 2012 21:17
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I know they are horrible weapons and all, but I'd really like to watch a test of a nuke one day. Maybe I'm sick.
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Jul 20, 2012 22:00
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