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It's not that the powers for either are random. It's that they are random, and some of the are essentially useless. Or, at least, you'd have to know which one you were going to get and include a unit (or units) other than the random power unit to take advantage of them. They're just frustrating, because you never know what to expect. Random charging doesn't fall into the same category, because it always works the same way. Possessed will sort of at least end up being assault focused, though their abilities in combat will vary widely from "pretty decent" to "expensive marines" which is stupid. If you might end up with just "expensive marines" then why not just take them as marines and use the cooler models? Why have the unit in the codex at all?
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Jul 16, 2012 02:58
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!amicable posted:You can use twat as a verb in England? Only if you pronounce it to rhyme with "that". PeterWeller posted:Honestly, that interview gave me the impression that Ward really "gets" 40K more than we give him credit for. It's all about over the top, epic science-fantasy action, and the rules should reflect that level of craziness. That was the impression my friend and I took away from his seminar at the open day.
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Jul 16, 2012 03:07
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pr0digal posted:Just lost one part of a Termagaunt Devourer weapon not a few minutes ago You need to pay an extra 30 points if you bring him now.
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Jul 16, 2012 03:09
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S.J. posted:No you have to ignore the badly designed and poorly thought out stuff in the game you guys aren't having fun right You refute me and prove my point at the same time. Good show, sir.
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Jul 16, 2012 03:34
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The Gate posted:It's not that the powers for either are random. It's that they are random, and some of the are essentially useless. Or, at least, you'd have to know which one you were going to get and include a unit (or units) other than the random power unit to take advantage of them. They're just frustrating, because you never know what to expect. I get that, but I think the "you never know what to expect" part is what makes them special and interesting, and the gamble should be why you take them. I totally understand why people don't like them because their effectiveness is unreliable, but I also think there is room for units like them, and nothing is forcing you to take them. I agree that they're not comparable to random assault distance.
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Jul 16, 2012 03:48
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PeterWeller posted:
No it isn't. That'd be turning it into a noun. It already was a noun.  Verbalize.
Fix fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Jul 16, 2012 |
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Jul 16, 2012 04:08
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Fix posted:No it isn't. That'd be turning it into a noun. It already was a noun. I hosed that up, and you are correct. E: fixing my improperly punctuated coordinating conjunction. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Jul 16, 2012 |
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Jul 16, 2012 04:20
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PeterWeller posted:I get that, but I think the "you never know what to expect" part is what makes them special and interesting, and the gamble should be why you take them. I totally understand why people don't like them because their effectiveness is unreliable, but I also think there is room for units like them, and nothing is forcing you to take them. If the stuff possessed got was random, but every option was decent to good and they were still worth their points no matter what you rolled, people would take them. Basically, stuff can be random and still good, but possessed aren't that.
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Jul 16, 2012 04:23
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Fix posted:No it isn't. That'd be turning it into a noun. It already was a noun. Verbification is preferred due to it not being a homophone.
Asphyxious fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Jul 16, 2012 |
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Jul 16, 2012 04:24
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Dominion posted:If the stuff possessed got was random, but every option was decent to good and they were still worth their points no matter what you rolled, people would take them. I'm not so sure of your first assertion. Many hams seek to do away with as much randomization as possible. I agree that possessed should have a better table, but I'm also cool with rolling a 6 being better than rolling a 1 on that table.
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Jul 16, 2012 04:28
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I do have a single question about the new warlord rule. If, say, I took Abaddon and stuck him in a 4 man terminator squad that has a Chaos Land Raider as its dedicated transport, and happened to roll the Outflanking option in the Personal section of the warlord rules, that I could outflank a Land Raider containing four chaos terminators and Abaddon? Because if so: Holy crap I'm never going to try to roll for anything else ever.
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Jul 16, 2012 04:44
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hakkart posted:I do have a single question about the new warlord rule. If, say, I took Abaddon and stuck him in a 4 man terminator squad that has a Chaos Land Raider as its dedicated transport, and happened to roll the Outflanking option in the Personal section of the warlord rules, that I could outflank a Land Raider containing four chaos terminators and Abaddon? In the abstract, Yes. "If units are picked from their army list with a dedicated transport, they may outflank along with their transport" However, in this specific example, no, because chaos terminator squads have a minimum squad size of 5
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Jul 16, 2012 05:22
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The minimum terminator squad for chaos is three, though I can't find my book to double check.
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Jul 16, 2012 05:30
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It is 3. I've got the book in front of me. Squad size is 3-10.
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Jul 16, 2012 05:34
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When I build my marine lists now, I'm better off just going with a Librarian or Sicarious as my commander, not bothering with a stock captain or even chapter master from the book? I find it funny, the same people who I know are complaining about random charges in 6th are the same people who praised it in the latest fantasy.
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Jul 16, 2012 05:44
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Discospawn posted:You need to pay an extra 30 points if you bring him now. No way, he's just a modeling-for-confusion rear end in a top hat now.
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Jul 16, 2012 05:47
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SRM posted:No way, he's just a modeling-for-confusion rear end in a top hat now. You've found me out! The gun part is still there...it's just the other little arm thing
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Jul 16, 2012 06:04
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Made a big online order, got a nice starter Necron army for the girlfriend, along with a bunch of Tyranid HQ and a Battleforce to get me up to 1000 points. How does this list look? +++ Hive Fleet Hades (999pts) +++ +++ 1000pt Tyranids 5th Ed (2010) Roster (Standard) +++ Selections: + HQ + (360pts) * Hive Tyrant (260pts) (Psyker, Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature) Armoured Shell (40pts), Bonded Exoskeleton, Heavy Venom Cannon (25pts), Hive Commander (25pts), Lash Whip and Bonesword, Leech Essence, Paroxysm * Tyranid Prime (100pts) (Alpha warrior, Independant Character, Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature) Bonded Exoskeleton, Deathspitter (5pts), Lash whip and Bonesword (15pts) + Troops + (639pts) * Genestealer Brood (172pts) * Broodlord (60pts) (Brood Telepathy, Fleet, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover, Psyker) Aura of Despair, Hardened Carapace, Hypnotic Gaze, Rending Claws * 8x Genestealer (112pts) (Brood Telepathy, Fleet, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover) 8x Reinforced Chitin, 8x Rending Claws * Genestealer Brood (172pts) * Broodlord (60pts) (Brood Telepathy, Fleet, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover, Psyker) Aura of Despair, Hardened Carapace, Hypnotic Gaze, Rending Claws * 8x Genestealer (112pts) (Brood Telepathy, Fleet, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover) 8x Reinforced Chitin, 8x Rending Claws * Termagant Brood (100pts) * 20x Termagant (100pts) (The Scuttling Swarm) 20x Chitin, 20x Claws and Teeth, 20x Fleshborer * Tervigon (195pts) (Brood Progenitor, Psyker, Shadow in the Warp, Spawn Termagants, Synapse Creature) Adrenal Glands (10pts), Bonded exoskeleton, Claws and teeth, Dominion, Onslaught (15pts), Stinger Salvo, Toxin Sacs (10pts) Using the three Warriors that come with the battleforce to make the two Broodlords and the Prime. Still have 16 hormagaunts, 5 ripper swarms and 20 termagants in my collection held back with this list, though the termagants are obviously for the tervigon. Not sure how to work zoanthropes or hive guard in, but I figure they will be best for anti-tank stuff later in bigger games? sexart fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Jul 16, 2012 |
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Jul 16, 2012 06:25
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Did they strip out a lot of the cool fluff from the rulebook? Debating on whether to buy as I don't really play anymore but still love the universe/like to collect the books. Seems kind of just a rules tome? I got hooked up third edition thanks to the massive backstory portions of it :<
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Jul 16, 2012 06:36
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Scoobi posted:Did they strip out a lot of the cool fluff from the rulebook? Debating on whether to buy as I don't really play anymore but still love the universe/like to collect the books. Seems kind of just a rules tome? I got hooked up third edition thanks to the massive backstory portions of it :< They will never take the huge fluff section out of the rulebook.
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Jul 16, 2012 06:38
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S.J. posted:They will never take the huge fluff section out of the rulebook. I guess the scan of this I saw didn't include that section, purchased with ease then.
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Jul 16, 2012 06:40
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There's over 100 pages of fluff in the rule book, and some of those are fold out pictures of the palace on terra or the entire galaxy with a few territories or important places noted. E: beaten
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Jul 16, 2012 06:41
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humannature posted:It is 3. I've got the book in front of me. Squad size is 3-10. This is what made terminator suicide squads so popular in 5h. Only having to take 3 with combsi came to like 105 pts instead of marines 5 that I think is around 200 base.
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Jul 16, 2012 06:51
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sexart posted:Made a big online order, got a nice starter Necron army for the girlfriend, along with a bunch of Tyranid HQ and a Battleforce to get me up to 1000 points. How does this list look? You will get a lot more mileage from having Wings on that Tyrant instead of the Armored Shell, and find the points for Toxin Sacs on both squads of Genestealers. Dump some Termagants to fit these both in, you'll still use the models when your Tervigon spawns.
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Jul 16, 2012 07:00
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Tequila Ranger posted:You will get a lot more mileage from having Wings on that Tyrant instead of the Armored Shell, and find the points for Toxin Sacs on both squads of Genestealers. Dump some Termagants to fit these both in, you'll still use the models when your Tervigon spawns. maybe. Having a creature with 2+ with the new rules might finally be worth leaving armored in, especially with it being one of our very few chances for a 2+ save anywhere in the codex. We have that, t-fex and 1 or 2 other models that can grab the shell I think, my codex is in my car atm. Also, wings are 20 more points he would have to shave off elsewhere, although that is much less of a factor
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Jul 16, 2012 07:16
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mmj posted:maybe. Having a creature with 2+ with the new rules might finally be worth leaving armored in, especially with it being one of our very few chances for a 2+ save anywhere in the codex. We have that, t-fex and 1 or 2 other models that can grab the shell I think, my codex is in my car atm. Also, wings are 20 more points he would have to shave off elsewhere, although that is much less of a factor the counterpoint is that with so few 2+ units in his army and no vehicles his opponent's anti tank will have no trouble choosing targets and will make short work of the armour.
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Jul 16, 2012 08:00
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mmj posted:maybe. Having a creature with 2+ with the new rules might finally be worth leaving armored in, especially with it being one of our very few chances for a 2+ save anywhere in the codex. We have that, t-fex and 1 or 2 other models that can grab the shell I think, my codex is in my car atm. Also, wings are 20 more points he would have to shave off elsewhere, although that is much less of a factor All plasma will just be pointed at that one dude then. Is dicebucket.com a decent site to order from? They now ship to Australia
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Jul 16, 2012 09:25
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Big Willy Style posted:All plasma will just be pointed at that one dude then. Cataphract posted:the counterpoint is that with so few 2+ units in his army and no vehicles his opponent's anti tank will have no trouble choosing targets and will make short work of the armour. Good points. At best he would give a few other MCs a turn to move up before he soaks up too much damage and dies. A 7 story monstronsity that can stomp a space marine to death really shouldn't have to worry about a freaking power sword slicing through his thick plates of armor though. Mr. Ward, that is what you would call "disassociative"
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Jul 16, 2012 10:44
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Is anyone here good at Excel formulas? In a fit of noob gooniness I'm trying to make a spreadsheet that will detail what I can expect to do to various Space Marine type units. I'd try to explain the various weapons and poison rolls, etc., and how I'm trying to get 16.66 times the number of die faces I can succeed with, but then it all falls down when it comes to the Wound chart anyway - I wouldn't know how to make that formula, so I'd probably just key it in by hand anyway. Or rather than twist my brain further than it is already, surely there must be an Excel file online somewhere that shows how many kills I can expect with shooting various weapons at Space Marines?
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Jul 16, 2012 11:40
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krushgroove posted:Is anyone here good at Excel formulas? Its not quite exactly what you want, but I think this may do what you need.
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Jul 16, 2012 11:44
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That probably works better, thanks! I'm still collecting lots of 40K links and this one of the more helpful ones. At least I can start off a cheat sheet of what different can do to different enemies.
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Jul 16, 2012 11:56
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Babe Magnet posted:No you have to look at all the negatives of the random stuff you guys aren't right in having fun 
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Jul 16, 2012 12:43
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mmj posted:Good points. At best he would give a few other MCs a turn to move up before he soaks up too much damage and dies. A 7 story monstronsity that can stomp a space marine to death really shouldn't have to worry about a freaking power sword slicing through his thick plates of armor though. Mr. Ward, that is what you would call "disassociative" I'm all for making Tyranid scarier, but I can count on one hand the number of times a power weapon has successfully killed a Hive Tyrant and I have played the game for almost eleven years now. Most of these examples deal with successful Force Weapon uses. Powerfists and 'klaws, certainly, but a lucky shot of 6 to wound with a power weapon is perfectly acceptable in terms of game balance. Think of it and striking a weak joint of into the top of the beasts mouth as it launches itself at its prey. Power weapons are often depicted as using fields of energy or monomolecular futuristic blades that would likely have no trouble slicing through layers of chitin considering they make quick work of the hardened metals of Space Marine armor and Necron bodies, etc. The explosive bolt rounds that space marines use narratively turn human targets into a spray of fine red mist. In the game a third of the time they don't even hurt them. I wouldn't get too picky about outside chances for things to occur--that's where a lot of the tension and fun come from. "Okay, here we go, my monster is barrelling straight into your forces and you've got one hit with your anti-aircraft before it reaches you and tears them to pieces. It has one wound left and you've got one roll to take it down." There are so many examples of things in this science fiction setting that if dealt with appropriately would mean utter destruction of units on both sides instantly. PierreTheMime fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Jul 16, 2012 |
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Jul 16, 2012 12:44
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I made a list with things I have or can easily build from bits. It is just for friendly games while we learn the rules and such so not meant to be the best possible list. I´m going for a Skitarii theme, so I want them to have a lot of shiny things. HQ Company Command Squad -Vox Caster Primaris Psyker Techpriest w 4 servitors Elites Marbo Psyker squad (4+overseer) Troops Infantry platoon -inf squad --vox -inf squad --vox -com squad --vox Veteran Squad led by Harker -Autocannon, Meltagun, Demolitions, Vox -Chimera Fast Attack Scout sentinel squadron -2 sentinels w. searchlight That is 847 pts but I have many upgrade options still to pick. Should I have more meltas in my veteran squad? I plan to infiltrate them on a flank or to cherry-pick tasty targets. What are good weapon choices for my infantry platoon and company command? I have 2 Lemans that I can proxy as chimeras for my troops if that is good. Any suggestions or critiques are welcome.
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Jul 16, 2012 13:35
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mmj posted:A 7 story monstronsity that can stomp a space marine to death really shouldn't have to worry about a freaking power sword slicing through his thick plates of armor though. Mr. Ward, that is what you would call "disassociative" Ohhhh, now I understand how the associative/disassociative argument could be twisted into something stupid that doesn't even have anything to do with what the words mean.
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Jul 16, 2012 14:38
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A sword meant to cut through armor can cut through armor. MAT WARD
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Jul 16, 2012 14:47
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Please please please please can we NOT have a discussion about verisimilitude here in a thread about magical robot spacemen in the far future fighting daemon space bugs. Please. I just want one thread in Trad Games to go unscarred by huge arguments surrounding the "V" word.
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Jul 16, 2012 15:01
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milward posted:I made a list with things I have or can easily build from bits. It is just for friendly games while we learn the rules and such so not meant to be the best possible list. More Meltas are always good, though you may want to avoid mixing them with heavy weapons. Meltas need to maneuver in order to get close enough to be effective, but heavy weapons such as Autocannons need to stay stationary in order to fire at full effect. Putting it in your Command Squad might be an acceptable substitute, since you can give it orders and it's still shooting at BS4. The Vet squad also doesn't need a vox, since they can't take orders from inside a Chimera (And they'll probably be out of range in any case.) As for the Leman Russes, depending on the point cost you may as well use them as they are, since they're more than effective enough for a friendly game. (And let's be honest, who DOESN'T like using big armored tanks?)
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Jul 16, 2012 15:18
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I'm not sure a 4 man psyker battle squad is worth the bother to be honest. Both of their big selling point powers are based on the squad size, if memory serves, so running less than a full squad is gimping yourself. Plus if you roll Perils of the Warp you lose D3 of them, which hurts even more when you've only got the 4 to start with. I'd be sticking at least a grenade launcher in each infantry squad as well - throwing a strength 6 shot in with all those lasgun volleys can be very effective, and it's not too expensive in terms of points. Command squad wise, Acebuckeye13's probably right, but I kinda like throwing a medic in with them and loading up with plasma guns. Three or four rapid firing plasma guns means a command squad can be something your opponent tries to keep his best stuff away from and gives you a way of controlling where he puts terminators and the like. And yeah, vet squad is probably best being all melta if you can. Although I don't know how effective meltavets in chimerae are in sixth - possibly slightly less than they were in 5th.
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Jul 16, 2012 15:29
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PierreTheMime posted:Please please please please can we NOT have a discussion about verisimilitude here in a thread about magical robot spacemen in the far future fighting daemon space bugs. Please. I just want one thread in Trad Games to go unscarred by huge arguments surrounding the "V" word. This post ruined my immersion.
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