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Sorry, I worked in a number of restaurants for almost a decade. I get touchy about that topic, but I'm also aware it's a thread-killer. We cool, Loving Life Partner. 
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Jul 14, 2012 15:39
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XyloJW posted:We cool, Loving Life Partner.  So much warmth in the thread.
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Jul 14, 2012 17:54
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Nth Doctor posted:
Unacceptable, we need more blood for the blood god!
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Jul 14, 2012 18:16
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Loving Life Partner posted:Maybe the answer is somewhere in the middle God, I hate this phrase. I hate it so much. Don't hate you, just that phrase. archangelwar posted:Hey, leave her alone. She is Just Asking Questions™. This one too. VanSandman fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jul 15, 2012 |
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Jul 15, 2012 01:08
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XyloJW posted:But now his phone's wet. Thanks to technology from aliens that Obama is hiding in area 51 (his favorite verse from the Kooram).
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Jul 15, 2012 06:04
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quote:Subject: Merely passing this on as received. TLDR: How could Obama possibly pay for college and a trip around the world? Also he's secretly Muslim!
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Jul 15, 2012 16:28
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Hey, leave her alone. She is Just Asking Questions™.
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Jul 15, 2012 16:51
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quote:Am I going nuts or is there a pattern here?
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Jul 15, 2012 17:36
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Start with a fact or two, something easily verifiable to throw even the skeptic with Google off guard. Throw in a few Real Things that people Recognize such as CNN, Fox News, and the nation of Pakistan for verisimilitude. Now, simply present the evidence and let the reader come to his or her (probably "his" despite the unnecessary mention of being a female Obama supporter) own conclusion. Conservatism 
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Jul 15, 2012 17:51
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Some creationist PMed me on youtube. Here's our exchange thus far:FeatherSwordX posted:No?? Then why on earth do these websites Me posted:Those two links you just gave me refer to actual genetic mutation, which is indeed random. FeatherSwordX posted:Natural Selection does not "choose" which organism to be the fittest, it "chooses" THE fittest to survive. So, to take that to it's logical conclusion, there is no reason why any organism should be the fittest other than by the random chance genetic mutation. Me posted:That's a bit of a simplification. Evolution chooses whatever organism is best at propagating its own numbers, within its own niche. Ever wonder why there's so many insects? FeatherSwordX posted:Your speaking about evolution as though it is a conscious thinking entity, even though, that's equivalent to saying that the thunderstorm chose to strike down that tree instead of the other one. When in reality it is simply nature taking place. And then I get kind of annoyed: Me posted:"Your speaking about evolution as though it is a conscious thinking entity, even though, that's equivalent to saying that the thunderstorm chose to strike down that tree instead of the other one. When in reality it is simply nature taking place."
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Jul 15, 2012 18:18
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I'd say the high rates of mental illness, humanity's propensity for depression and hallucination, and the long history of sociopaths and mass murderers is evidence that our species' minds don't function all that well. Even with perfectly functioning minds you have optical illusions that prove the brain makes a lot of shortcuts and assumptions that work most of the time, but can seriously distort perception in the right circumstances. To flip his argument about solipsism back on him, if he believes in God and demons and all that other supernatural stuff, what guarantee does he have that it isn't some entity fooling with his perception? There are plenty of examples in the Bible of supernatural creatures messing with the senses, giving visions, that sort of thing. It seems to me that sort of reality is much more prone to being misled, especially considering that were it true all the evidence for evolution would be fabricated, the work of a super-powerful rear end in a top hat. At least with science and assuming there are not any supernatural things happening we can objectively test and deduce the truth. I'm sure you know this, but if you want to continue the dialog maybe clarify that mutation is random, natural selection is the filtering of those mutations for beneficial ones and eliminating bad ones. His use of "choose" and "choosing" and even the term "selection" itself is a verb that can imply the action of a rational actor, a weakness of the language we use to describe the process. As an analogy, we could say that a boulder "chooses" to follow the path worn by a stream when it rolls downhill, guided by the stream's banks. But just because there isn't intelligence doesn't mean there isn't direction; in the same way, selection guides which mutations become prevalent in a population. Intelligence was selected for because it's a valuable tool for surviving in diverse and rapidly changing environments in a way that instinct cannot compete against.
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Jul 15, 2012 19:42
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Below is a list of Obama’s documented lies so far with the most recent lies first. If you see we are missing a documented lie Submit the lie here. Lies During Third YearI will walk on that picket line with you, if workers are denied the right to bargain. Youtube In his 2012 State of the Union Address, President Obama said that American oil production is the highest that it’s been in eight years. https://www.breitbart.com I’ve done more for Israel’s security than any President ever Obama aided Islamic Extremists take over of Egypt/ Libya – Weapons pour into Gaza Virtually every Senate Republican voted against the tax cut last week Examiner “Every idea that we’ve put forward are ones that traditionally have been supported by Democrats and Republicans alike.” Like Raising taxes? Obama met highly qualified out of work teacher Robert Baroz He wasn’t out of work and Obama never met him. GOP Responsible for Obama Jobs Bill Not Passing Dems Rejected Jobs Bill You have 80 percent of the American people who support a balanced approach. Eighty percent of the American people support an approach that includes revenues and includes cuts. So the notion that somehow the American people aren’t sold is not the problem Gallup Poll: Only 69% These are obligations that the United States has taken on in the past. Congress has run up the credit card, and we now have an obligation to pay our bills. Looks like it’s been incurred mostly in the years of Obama Jobs Bill Paid for Seems not so much Paid for Then you’ve got their(GOP)which is dirtier air, dirtier water, less people with health insurance Barack Obama, campaiging in Asheville, NC, 10/17/11 I cannot guarantee that those checks go out on August 3rd if we haven’t resolved this issue. Because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it. American.com USA producing more oil than ever before Petroleum Insights Fence between US and Mexico is “Practically Complete” Department of Homeland Security says 5% Rich doesn’t pay their fair share. National Taxpayers Union Mitt Romney would deny gay people the right to adopt children. Cnn Interview Lies During Second Year Obama claimed the SCOTUS decision in Citizens United v. FEC, “open[ed] the floodgates for special interests — including foreign corporations — to spend without limit in our elections. nationalreview.com No signing statements to nullify or undermine congressional instructions as enacted into law Obama Lies to Keep Czars No “boots” on the ground Libya Anyone that has worked with the AC-130 gunship can tell you, you need spotters to let aircraft know where the targets are. Usually it is Special Forces, Rangers etc trained for this mission. It’s CIA Agents in Libya on the ground Reform will also rein in the abuse and excess that nearly brought down our financial system. It will finally bring transparency to the kinds of complex, risky transactions that helped trigger the financial crisis. Obama Lies About Financial Reform Bill All Americans WILL BE were, “surprised, disappointed and angry” about lockerbie bomber Obama Memo I will not rest until the BP Oil Spill stops Obama’s Schedule The health care bill will not increase the deficit by one dime. Campaign and Presidency If you like the health care plan you have you can keep it TownHall “Under our plan, no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions, and federal conscience laws will remain in place.” U.S. Capitol, Washington, D.C., September 9, 2009. ObamaCare Fee is not a new tax Obama denies healthcare is a new tax on all Americans We have run out of places in the US to drill for oil. Obama’s oval office speech in June 2010 Now suddenly if you don’t have your papers and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you can be harassed, that’s something that could potentially happen. Arizona Immigration Law Doctors choose amputation because they get better compensation. Greedy Doctors taking out tonsils for more money. Claims never documented The Health Care Package will pay for itself Time Republicans don’t have a single idea that’s different from George Bush’s ideas — not one. Hmm Immigration? We shouldn’t Mandate the purchase of health care Democratic Debate Lies Obama says he’ll save average family $8,000 in gas Video Proof I am immediately instituting PayGo “Pay as you go” Said during a speech immediately after the Trillion Dollar “Shovel Ready” bill. I got the Message from Massachusetts Daily Bail Lies During First Year We began by passing a Recovery Act that has already saved or created over 150,000 jobs.” – caught cooking the books and now changed to ‘jobs supported’ versus ‘created/saved’ AP fact Checker Number one, we inherited a $1.3 trillion deficit. … That wasn’t me.” – Congress, under Democratic control in 2007 and 2008, controlled the purse strings that led to the deficit Obama inherited.Obama supported the emergency bailout package in Bush’s final months — a package Democratic leaders wanted to make bigger. AP fact Checker Collective salvation Obama calls himself a Christian I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. Obama Inauguration. 20 Jan 2009 Cut Deficit in Half by end of first term Associated Press Video Health Care deals will be covered on C-span Obama Lies As President I will recognize the Armenian Genocide ABC Recovery Act will save or create jobs ABC News Unemployment rate will be 8.5% without stimulus. Obama Lies No Earmarks in the $787 Billion Stimulus CNN I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care plan Specator.Org We have launched a housing plan that will help responsible families facing the threat of foreclosure lower their monthly payments and refinance their mortgages. Obama Lies I am not somebody who promotes same-sex marriage. NPR Guantanamo bay to be closed within a year Council on Foreign Relations. Won’t Raise taxes on those making less than 250,000 per year. Businessweek: Obama Agnostic on taxes List of Tax Promise Violations 2008 Campaign Lies I will walk the picket line with you, if workers are denied the right to bargain Youtube No more wiretapping of citizens Youtube Mr. Ayers as “a guy who lives in my neighborhood,” but “not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis. News Busters I had a uncle who was one of the, who was part of the first American troops to go into Auschwitz and liberate the concentration camps United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Obama campaign would accept public funding ABC Minimum Wage will increase to $9.50/hr A Socialist Ann Dunham spent the months before her death in 1995 fighting with insurance companies that sought to deny her the coverage she needed to pay for treatment. Mounting Heath Care Lies Didn’t know Jeremiah Wright was Radical Dreams of My Father – A radical Socialist. Would have the most transparent administration in History Cato Institute We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way. Boston Globe I have visited all 57 states. Snopes I’ll get rid of earmarks Source: Any bill passed during presidency When a bill lands on my Desk, The American people will have 5 days to review it before I sign it. Campaign Speech My father served in World War II. The Videos and the Facts Have troops out of Iraq by March 31, 2009 News Video Seniors Making less than 50,000 will not have to pay taxes YouTube Would not vote for any bill supporting troop funding without a firm withdrawal commitment from the Bush Administration. He has done nothing but continue the Bush admins strategy and to explain how the “surges total failure” has now become his greatest achievement. Present Votes Are Common In Illinois NPR I Won Michigan Huffington Post I won Nevada The Nation I don’t Have Lobbyists US News My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad Crooks and Liars I Have Always Been Against Iraq Washington Post My Wife Didn’t Mean What She Said About Pride In Country CNN Barack was never an ACORN trainer and never worked for ACORN in any other capacity. Obama Campaign Video I Barely Know Rezko Sun Times My Church Is Like Any Other Christian Church ABC News HOW DO SOURCES WORK
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Jul 15, 2012 22:14
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XyloJW posted:Yes, that is the law. However, most states in the US are "At-will" hiring, which means you can be fired for "No stated reason," which most definitely includes bitching at them because you're not making minimum wage. No manager will keep paying you an extra $5 an hour, when they can just fire you for no reason and hire someone else in a week's time. Or even better, hire them, and have you train them. Huh. Okay, so it's both better and worse than I expected. Well, that makes sense. Thanks for the information!
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Jul 15, 2012 22:14
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Hey guys I'm really sorry to be asking this again so soon, but somewhere about 30 pages back someone posted some links about the demographics of welfare recipients, that shows that most have jobs? And I can't find it for the life of me, if someone could help that'd be great.
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Jul 15, 2012 22:20
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Oh jesus. My uncle just sent me an email encouraging me to vote for Romney, instead of the obvious choice (Obama), and I just stared at the monitor making a rage face. Apparently my dear old uncle didn't hear about how he pantsed a gay kid and screamed into his buttcheeks for an hour while he was at Princeton. Bullies like him don't deserve to live, much less preside over our country.
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Jul 15, 2012 22:29
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Tuff posted:Apparently my dear old uncle didn't hear about how he pantsed a gay kid and screamed into his buttcheeks for an hour while he was at Princeton. I heard he held a guy down and cut his hair, and made fun of him for being effeminate. Do you have a source for that?
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Jul 15, 2012 22:39
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XyloJW posted:I heard he held a guy down and cut his hair, and made fun of him for being effeminate. Do you have a source for that? Oh, that was what I was thinking of.
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Jul 15, 2012 23:14
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Tuff posted:Oh, that was what I was thinking of. Well, now that we have that part figured out, who were you thinking of that screamed into a guys rear end for an hour?
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Jul 15, 2012 23:21
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30.5 Days posted:Hey guys I'm really sorry to be asking this again so soon, but somewhere about 30 pages back someone posted some links about the demographics of welfare recipients, that shows that most have jobs? And I can't find it for the life of me, if someone could help that'd be great. EDIT:  Since you specified demographics related to work, I did a bit more digging on their website and came up with this page which lets you drill down by state and congressional district reports on percentage based work status of households on SNAP and not on SNAP.And this report with a ton of useful information on the households as of 2010: quote:Thirty percent of SNAP households had earned income, 21 percent received Supplemental Security Income (SSI), 21 percent received Social Security income, and 8 percent received support from Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF). The percentage of households with zero gross income continued to increase in fiscal year 2010, rising to nearly 20 percent from 8 percent in fiscal year 2000. While this means that the majority of households on SNAP aren't receiving earned income through employment, it's important to note that the whole point of SNAP is assisting people in need: households who are unable to find adequate employment for example. The vast majority of households on SNAP are below poverty and the vast majority also are families with elder or disabled persons or children. ---------------------------- Might've been my stuff, the topic has come up a couple times here: quote:What's important when deciding whether or not things are a problem worth looking into has a lot to do with pervasiveness. I was talking with a coworker the other day about EBT and I asked him how much money he thought most EBT recipients got in a month to spend. He admitted he wasn't sure, but figured it was "like $800". So I decided to look into it (and a few other associated bits of information): quote:Depends on what sort of Welfare you are talking about; most people when they think of welfare think food stamps (SNAP). A few facts about SNAP: Might be some overlap in those two posts but I think that covers the gist of the food stamp program. I'm also fairly sure that most other first world countries don't have food stamp programs: they just straight up give money to those people living in poverty via negative income taxes. Mo_Steel fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Jul 16, 2012 |
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Jul 16, 2012 05:51
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That's all huge so I'm gonna store it away, but this particular argument is about Florida's drug testing, so any info someone has about programs like TANF as opposed to EBT would be helpful.
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Jul 16, 2012 06:36
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30.5 Days posted:That's all huge so I'm gonna store it away, but this particular argument is about Florida's drug testing, so any info someone has about programs like TANF as opposed to EBT would be helpful. Since TANF is the actual cash welfare that everyone thinks welfare queens are sitting around collecting, some basic facts: -There's a lifetime limit of 4-5 years on it, because people stop being poor after 4 years or something -You can only receive it if you have a child -The numbers vary by state, but TANF payouts still leave a family below the poverty line http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3625 -There's work requirements http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=936
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Jul 16, 2012 06:49
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Amused to Death posted:Since TANF is the actual cash welfare that everyone thinks welfare queens are sitting around collecting, some basic facts: To qualify for either you need to be extremely disabled, but many people don't realize that most disabilities don't make you a vegetable. SSI payouts are comically small. $698.00/mo is what you get. Get more? That person is on SSDI, which means they must have worked for a certain number of years. Paid into the program. It is like insurance. Many others are on worker's comp or some sort of private disability insurance. One means you got hurt working. The other is jut capitalism at work.
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Jul 16, 2012 07:13
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nm posted:Most people people think are on "welfare" are on SSI or SSDI. I used to get a thing in the mail every year telling me what I would make on SSI or SSDI. They stopped that a few years ago probably because people were thinking that it was their only option left and seeing the numbers made it more tempting. In my part of Florida, it's 18-24 months from the time you file to the the determination of your claim. Probably even a little longer now, that figure is a couple of years old.
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Jul 16, 2012 07:15
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skaboomizzy posted:I used to get a thing in the mail every year telling me what I would make on SSI or SSDI. They stopped that a few years ago probably because people were thinking that it was their only option left and seeing the numbers made it more tempting. In my part of Florida, it's 18-24 months from the time you file to the the determination of your claim. Probably even a little longer now, that figure is a couple of years old. The government thought it would be a great idea to cancel any SSI/SSDI claims for anyone incarcerated for more than X months (I want to say 3). You have to start a new claim. We then all act shocked, shocked I tell you, when after 4 months of living on the streets they steal something and go back to prison/jail. Oh and they have to start the process over again!
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Jul 16, 2012 07:27
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Blarghalt posted:Some creationist PMed me on youtube. Here's our exchange thus far: Ha, it's like a college freshman who just took his first philosophy class and hasn't made it to Descartes or Hume yet, but still thinks he's figured out some masterstroke against atheists/materialists/etc. that no one has ever thought of before. "Hurr, what's this 'problem of induction' you speak of? Who is Karl Popper? What is the Dunning-Kruger effect?"
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Jul 16, 2012 07:31
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Tomahawk posted:
Were they actually given like that? No links at all (except for Breitbart), just "oh I heard it on ABC"?
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Jul 16, 2012 14:06
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A lot of them aren't even sourced, they're just given a snide remark:quote:These are obligations that the United States has taken on in the past. Congress has run up the credit card, and we now have an obligation to pay our bills. Which doesn't even make sense. Most of the obligations that would not have gotten paid if the debt ceiling wasn't raised were things like: - Social Security - Medicare/Medicaid payments - Soldier/Veteran pay/benefits - Interest on past debts All of which are obligations that existed long before Obama showed up.
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Jul 16, 2012 15:20
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Also, sovereign debt is different from household debt! Thinking of it like a credit card is just a mistake.
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Jul 16, 2012 15:22
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:Also, sovereign debt is different from household debt! Thinking of it like a credit card is just a mistake. Thanks to this thread I've been able to explain this to some people during discussions and they were receptive and interested. Although trying to explain why the gold standard isn't a great idea, along with the rest of Ron Pauls stuff didn't go over so well.
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Jul 16, 2012 16:19
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jojoinnit posted:Thanks to this thread I've been able to explain this to some people during discussions and they were receptive and interested. About 160,000 metric tons of gold have been mined in human history. The current price of gold is, if I'm reading this correctly, about $1,500 per ounce (about 28 g). Solve for x, and we get... slightly over $8.5 trillion. Our GDP is almost twice that. Even if the US somehow rounded up all the gold in the world we wouldn't have nearly enough to cover our own GDP. I'm not an economist but that doesn't sound like that would work very well. Maybe that will help get people get the picture? (Of course, that's nothing compared to the problems faced by the folks who want to go back to gold itself, rather than just gold-backed currency. Making $40k now? Congrats, your new salary is two pounds of gold. Good luck carving off 1-gram pieces of it to pay for your groceries!)
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Jul 16, 2012 16:54
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But how can paper have value? Only shiny metal can! [insert strange maths about how if your money was gold you would be way richer]
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Jul 16, 2012 17:02
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lancemantis posted:But how can paper have value? Only shiny metal can! Wrong only bitcoins can have valule, but not as much value as Cosbycoins
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Jul 16, 2012 17:06
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 When someone linked to the inevitable Snopes debunking, he replied that other "reputable websites" (which from a quick Google search seems to actually mean "conservative blogs and nothing else at all) say differently.  "I may utter FACT that you think are hate speech, especially if you're a loser."  Obamacare: Scary Things I Made Up. You're welcome.
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Jul 16, 2012 17:32
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Guilty Spork posted:
I love the "16,500 more IRS agents" point thrown in at the end.
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Jul 16, 2012 18:42
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Parachute posted:I love the "16,500 more IRS agents" point thrown in at the end. So more American jobs?
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Jul 16, 2012 18:43
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Government jobs aren't really jobs, silly.
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Jul 16, 2012 18:45
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I love how the person who made that image automatically associates an increase of employees in the IRS with higher taxes. Do they think that the tax man is going to come to their door twice a year now that they have the manpower?
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Jul 16, 2012 18:52
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I love how the person who made that image automatically associates an increase of employees in the IRS with higher taxes. Do they think that the tax man is going to come to their door twice a year now that they have the manpower? Obviously it means your taxes are going up. When taxes go up, you need more people at the IRS. It's so clear. Dumb liberal!!!
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Jul 16, 2012 19:05
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The 16,500 IRS agents thing is just unbelievably stupid. It comes a Republican group that estimated the number of new agents that the law would result in. How did they do it? The took a CBO estimate of the cost of implementing and carrying out all the changes to the Internal Revenue Code in PPACA. However, the CBO estimate was actually a wide range of possible cost; the group just took the worst case estimate and ignored the lower estimate. Then they took that total high cost and divided by the pay that IRS agents typically receive, and bam! 16,500 agents. Never mind that the same methodology applied to the "best case" estimate would have meant half as many agents. Or the fact that they just divided the estimate by agent pay; as if 100% of the costs were going to be applied to hiring people. Rather than, things like training current employees on the changes, or implementing new software, or the benefits paid to those "16,500 new agents". Its a completely stupid number. And yet, its effective. I've had people on Facebook swear to me that the law actually includes a part that flat out says, "The IRS must hire 16,500 new agents". It doesn't, of course, but they believe with every part of their being that it does. Of course everything else in that image is equally stupid. The only one that's really debatable is the "Increased Costs"; though even there the CBO disagrees that there will be significant difference in cost over what the costs would have been without PPACA. The only exception being in the individual market, where the CBO expects most people to end up choosing to buy more expensive plans; but as a result of people having access to plans with better coverage, which is a good thing.
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Jul 16, 2012 19:11
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myron cope posted:Obviously it means your taxes are going up. When taxes go up, you need more people at the IRS. It's so clear. Dumb liberal!!! Its a well known fact that IRS agents can only collect a fixed amount of money each. Because those numbers in the spreadsheets and databases get really heavy.
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Jul 16, 2012 19:12
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