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You're thinking too far ahead, take what you have now, settle down a little, brother, you're working yourself up again. Use this time to work well at your job, see if there's possibility to shine at your present company, if after 6 months or so it's looking bleak, then perhaps think of taking some of that 'extra effort' in making yourself noticed into looking at a Dev QA (using your recent credentials) or flat out work on training yourself in the-other-discipline s
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Jul 16, 2012 22:19
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Revitalized posted:Is there any trick to standing out when applying for QA with entry level experience? Good written and verbal communication. Play lots of games and be able to talk critically about them. Understand what bugs are. Technical writing experience. Those are the things I would look for when I was hiring QA people, in order of importance.
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Jul 16, 2012 22:27
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You need to express an awareness of what it is QA really does. Most obviously that it's not being "paid to play games" and that you don't play they way you would to have fun, but also of how you are trying to stretch things to breaking point, to exploit the logic and circumvent the rules. And you will be doing it over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over and over again. If you're lucky for a few of those times you'll get to play in German where it sounds like that guy says "gently caress" that one time.
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Jul 16, 2012 22:38
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Stay out of QA. Enjoy your free time and non exploitative hours. If you feel like you need to punish yourself and get back into games there'll be better opportunities.
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Jul 16, 2012 23:33
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So I was comparing Europe and U.S. designer salaries, and I guess they are a lot lower in Europe. Is this because no one likes designers in Europe? Do the salaries offer comparable lifestyles or will I be poor if I moved to a position in Europe?
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Jul 16, 2012 23:34
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Resource posted:So I was comparing Europe and U.S. designer salaries, and I guess they are a lot lower in Europe. Is this because no one likes designers in Europe? Do the salaries offer comparable lifestyles or will I be poor if I moved to a position in Europe? Depends on what the important parts of your lifestyle is. If a big house is one of them, you'd need far more money than you'll see in games to get that sorta thing in europe.
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Jul 16, 2012 23:39
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mutata posted:For me, it's usually been some iteration of Or "In Salt Lake? I didn't think Disney had an animation studio there." Doh!
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Jul 17, 2012 01:22
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Revitalized posted:Is there any trick to standing out when applying for QA with entry level experience? Actually wanting to do QA and being able to give good reasons why that is the case. If you aren't angling for a job in design/production/art you will be considered a pearl of great price by any decent QA recruiter. I'm not saying it isn;t a valid path to do these things - but as a designer I have always had the best relationships with QA who like being QA. Some went on to being awesome designers, balancers and developers but it was obvious that they enjoyed QA and grew in breadth of skills while doing it rather than always looking for a way out. Resource posted:So I was comparing Europe and U.S. designer salaries, and I guess they are a lot lower in Europe. Is this because no one likes designers in Europe? Do the salaries offer comparable lifestyles or will I be poor if I moved to a position in Europe? It's a mystery to me and I have only ever worked in Europe (UK, Germany and France) and Asia. I'm fairly convinced that the companies don't know what they are basing it on either. I've had offers of between $40K and $120K for exactly the same job just in different locations in Europe. Given that the low and high offers were both in fairly expensive capital cities, that's quite a difference in standard of living. Property is generally more expensive over here, but again that's location linked. What will get you a 200 sq ft apartment in London will get you 1000 sq ft in a provincial town in France. Converted to US measures for your convenience :P 19orFewer fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jul 17, 2012 |
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Jul 17, 2012 02:42
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I dunno I must live in a game-friendly area or hang out with more tech savy people or something, but most people think it's awesome when I tell them what I do. And even when they find out I used to work on a semi-game like Flight Simulator they still think it's neat that I've worked on something they've heard of. In Seattle "programmer" is a pretty respectable occupation, I wonder if that's not normal? I've heard that in Europe programmers are culturally viewed more like construction workers than professionals/engineers, and that is the reason for the pretty substantial salary discrepancy with the US. Is that accurate?
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Jul 17, 2012 05:27
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DancingMachine posted:I dunno I must live in a game-friendly area or hang out with more tech savy people or something, but most people think it's awesome when I tell them what I do. And even when they find out I used to work on a semi-game like Flight Simulator they still think it's neat that I've worked on something they've heard of. Well normal varies from place to place. Seattle has a lot of nerds, where I live is pretty heavily skewed blue collar and transient oil rig workers. Talking about anything but killing brosefs in CoD is pretty boring or just outright moon language for a lot of folks I know who don't work at my old studio at any rate.
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Jul 17, 2012 06:24
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Heads up, arty-types! We're looking for junior and senior character artists to work in TRANSFORMERS UNIVERSE(no I don't know why it's all in caps either) team! Come work with me and make robots that turn into cars and stuff! I... don't know why both job descriptions are basically exactly the same though. Blaming HR for that one 
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Jul 17, 2012 11:06
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Thanks for the information about Europe salaries vs living expenses.
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Jul 17, 2012 14:38
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DancingMachine posted:I dunno I must live in a game-friendly area or hang out with more tech savy people or something, but most people think it's awesome when I tell them what I do. And even when they find out I used to work on a semi-game like Flight Simulator they still think it's neat that I've worked on something they've heard of. Aside from what Juc66 mentioned, Washington state has spawned a lot of companies with a focus on computers in one way or another, including a number of game companies. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but from a US perspective it's definitely well above average with respect to work in any industry focused on computers or applied sciences.
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Jul 17, 2012 14:54
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Even being in the industry for 10+ years, I think if someone told me they worked for Disney, I'd think retail store at the mall.
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Jul 17, 2012 15:06
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So, finally put together a trailer for the BlazeJam game. Could use some feedback: (the goal being to drive some interest toward BlazeJam, and also for it to act as a kind of announce trailer for Jones) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh9cBz2EAnc EDIT: Also, it is definitely overly dark (the alpha itself is overly dark), and that first bit of info at the end is cluttered / it all flies by a bit too fast. This is what I know already, though I'm inclined to leave it as-is as an alpha/BlazeJam trailer and just do better on future trailers. Votes to the contrary, do tell. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Jul 17, 2012 |
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Jul 17, 2012 15:07
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Hughlander posted:Even being in the industry for 10+ years, I think if someone told me they worked for Disney, I'd think retail store at the mall. You obviously don't hang around in southern California often. Whenever I say that there, it's automatically assumed that I personally animated the latest title character for a Pixar movie.
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Jul 17, 2012 16:30
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mutata posted:You obviously don't hang around in southern California often. Whenever I say that there, it's automatically assumed that I personally animated the latest title character for a Pixar movie. Nope, Seattle which does have 3 Disney Studios... But even if I was in Orange County, I'd just assume, "Oh Castmember at Disneyland." Maybe's it's just me.
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Jul 17, 2012 18:19
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Shalinor posted:So, finally put together a trailer for the BlazeJam game. Could use some feedback: I would recommend cutting the gameplay shown from a minute down to about 30 seconds . There was a lot of redundant gameplay shown, so I would try to make sure that each shot had interesting and/or different gameplay from the other shots. I was getting distracted with the first screen shown because there are a lot of words on it. If it just contained the name of the game, I think it wouldn't be as distracting to me. I recommend watching Trailer Blazing from GDC 2012. It gives best practices for creating game trailers for Indie Games.
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Jul 17, 2012 21:17
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I've seen some chatter from some Texas contacts of mine about something going down at Bioware Austin... Anyone know anything?
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Jul 17, 2012 22:47
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Yep, another round of layoffs. http://gamasutra.com/view/news/174300/SWTORs_executive_producer_leaves_BioWare_amid_layoff_reports.php A couple of employees have piped up on Twitter about being let go.
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Jul 17, 2012 22:50
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Pretty much every guy that I knew that worked at austin either came back to edmonton, or went to a different studio already. I'm not surprised to see more news of layoffs though, those subscription numbers aren't really what EA was hoping for at all.
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Jul 17, 2012 23:22
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Welp, my panel fell through, so no pax for me this year. Anyone going to GDC Austin?  And see all y'alls OC goons at beer night tonight!
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Jul 18, 2012 22:03
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I'll be at the beer night tonight after 9pm. Please look for me, I am a 6' tall lady and I am very approachable! I'll be with the other Blizzard folks, wearing my Tyreal hoodie to represent. 
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Jul 19, 2012 01:34
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GetWellGamers posted:Welp, my panel fell through, so no pax for me this year. Anyone going to GDC Austin? My studio is downtown Austin, literally a couple blocks from where it's held. I'll be around downtown most likely entertaining business partners with alcohol or crashing GDC parties.
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Jul 19, 2012 01:46
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Dinurth posted:My studio is downtown Austin, literally a couple blocks from where it's held. I'll be around downtown most likely entertaining business partners with alcohol or crashing GDC parties. My studio is not downtown, but I may be around there as well. I guess I'll have to find out where events are going to be.
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Jul 19, 2012 02:20
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I'll be at beer for the first time tonight with Sigma-X. I have a short beard and will be wearing a grey Wildstar shirt.
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Jul 19, 2012 03:45
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Im here already, im the guy with a gray t-shirt, glasses, and beige shoes. See you around!
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Jul 19, 2012 03:56
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Hello, beautiful gamejobs people. I no longer work at Loot Drop--could the OP be edited to reflect this? At the moment I am a gentleman of leisure, or as the French say, funemployed. This month has been filled with applying to places and working on my SA Game Dev challenge entry*. *Thanks for all the balls, Shalinor!
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Jul 19, 2012 07:15
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Note Block posted:I'll be at the beer night tonight after 9pm. Please look for me, I am a 6' tall lady and I am very approachable! I'll be with the other Blizzard folks, wearing my Tyreal hoodie to represent. Just got home and missed you apparently. I got sucked into talking to Jonathan who is never not amusing while drunk
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Jul 19, 2012 07:43
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Hi there, games people. I've got a couple questions for you beautiful folks: First, I've been reading a lot of doom and gloom in the papers when it comes to video games. How the next generation of consoles will be the last, how games like Farmville are going to kill all other kinds of videogames. So I was wondering what industry insiders thought. Are consoles doomed? Should I welcome our farming overlords? Second, more for the artsy people, I was wondering what the state of the job market is like. I'm sure there's far more people who want in than will get in, but overall is it optimistic or hopeless? Do you think demand is growing or shrinking? And on a tangent, what do you think the best "route" is for breaking in? Does one need a degree from a prestigious art school to have a chance? Thank you for your time, and your answers, should you wish to supply them.
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Jul 19, 2012 10:34
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EgoEgress posted:Hi there, games people. I've got a couple questions for you beautiful folks: Well I've been reading about how PCs are doomed my entire life, so I take more of a "let's wait and see" kind of approach with hardware predictions.
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Jul 19, 2012 10:37
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EgoEgress posted:First, I've been reading a lot of doom and gloom in the papers when it comes to video games. How the next generation of consoles will be the last, how games like Farmville are going to kill all other kinds of videogames. So I was wondering what industry insiders thought. Are consoles doomed? Should I welcome our farming overlords?. Thus: If budgets fall, the impression is that this is a game from a few years ago. The casual market departs, shrinking the playerbase below what can support even that slightly lower budget. Market tanks. If budgets stay the same, casuals bleed out slowly due to growing disinterest. Market tanks. If budgets continue to grow, there will come a point at which they simply can not draw more players without losing players. You can only make an experience so general, so casual, before giant swathes of your market depart. Risk per title also increases, meaning more and more large studios shutter. Market tanks. ... now this doesn't mean that games are doomed. Independant studios on Steam aren't ratcheting their budgets up in the same way, they're keeping within their established "gamer" player bases that look for content. Mobile is similar, just with casuals and lighter/faster games. Casual/F2P is a MASSIVE market driven by something other than visual spectacle / costly tech, and also looks fine. It's just the huge $60 AAA games that are in trouble, though their collapse would send waves through the market. Even so, I don't think consoles are going anywhere. I just think that in 10ish years, your console might have an Apple logo on it, with a market full of games occupying price points from $1 to $40, driven by gameplay/content on relatively average hardware as opposed to trying to innovate through poly count. The market owning that device will likely look quite a bit different from the market owning current consoles. EDIT: and this is just my opinion. I'm just a AAA expat indie, not some big studio boss or anything. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 14:49
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People say Japan isn't ahead of the US in anything game-related at all, but I think they are in one important aspect: As of right now, AAA games are quickly dying because they are always money losers except for Monster Hunter and the few Japanese AAA brands that still excite people overseas. This is mainly due to the older Japanese generation (the one that grew up with the 16 bits, etc) getting bored of games and the younger generation getting most of their gaming either from the PSP or from phones. There are either really niche otaku oriented games (which I'll be charitable and compare with indie projects, because really the budgets are similar) or social games. Konami makes lots more money off consumer-milking social games in Asia than they do off Metal Gear. They humor Kojima Pro's chronic lateness because the games always turn a profit, at least.
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Jul 19, 2012 15:54
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EgoEgress posted:Hi there, games people. I've got a couple questions for you beautiful folks: There will always (in the near future) be a place for Halos, CoDs and Elder Scrolls. The number of companies that do that kind of game is just going to shrink down to the huge companies that can support them, while the others will either close down or become more indy/casual. It's not hopeless, but you must either be a prodigy or willing to work really hard to get in, there is a ton of competition and not that many jobs. It's mostly a matter of having the drive. I can't say whether it is growing or shrinking, it seems to fluctuate a lot with new companies opening up and others closing down. I'd say in general the AAA opportunities are diminishing while the smaller ones are increasing. You don't NEED a degree, it depends on your personal situation and whether you want or have to take loans. If you need the pressure of college to push you and all the contacts that you get through it then a degree might be worth it for you. That said, you could achieve the same just by working hard on your own, reading and watching tutorials, going online and asking for critiques. In my personal case I think it was worth it, if for nothing more than the degree itself allowed me to get a work visa.
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Jul 19, 2012 16:22
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SUPER HASSLER posted:People say Japan isn't ahead of the US in anything game-related at all, but I think they are in one important aspect: As of right now, AAA games are quickly dying because they are always money losers except for Monster Hunter and the few Japanese AAA brands that still excite people overseas. This is mainly due to the older Japanese generation (the one that grew up with the 16 bits, etc) getting bored of games and the younger generation getting most of their gaming either from the PSP or from phones. So while it's interesting, using it as a predictor of US or EU markets probably won't quite work. We're seeing similar things, but we'll never see it to the same extremes. ... and the less said about the mou/otaku/etc culture having co-opted most of their indie devs, the better. I like to imagine that there's a vibrant indie culture over there that we just never hear about, beyond importers like Carpe Fulgur that sift through and localize the lesser-known titles.
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Jul 19, 2012 16:41
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If you work loving hard, work in a smart way so as to ensure you are actually progressing, go out of your way to not be an rear end in a top hat and make some friends who can vouch for you or put you up for interviews, and get lucky, then there's work for you. If getting a degree will serve to push you to do any number of the above, then it'll probably be worth it so long as you aren't going into MASSIVE debt at an art school or some such.
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Jul 19, 2012 16:45
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EgoEgress posted:Hi there, games people. I've got a couple questions for you beautiful folks: Games that are deeper and more engaging than Farmville aren't going to suddenly stop existing. I also really don't think it matters in any tangible way if the next generation of consoles were to be the last - it's not like games are going to disappear, and it's not like making large budget console games is going to somehow poison your ability to make smaller games for PC/Social/Mobile. But I don't think the notion of a powerful gamebox in the living room is going to go away any time soon, although I think you'll see continued pushes towards convergence and features beyond "game disc goes in slot." The best route for breaking in is to be really loving good, like better than other people in the industry good. There is no secret code, no method to hack your way in, no magic qualifier beyond "be really good at what you do." Specializing in an area outside your interests or expertise is not a secret backdoor way in, because you won't actually be any good at that. Technical Art is an in-demand position usually, but "bad Technical Artist" never is. I think as studios start to ramp up for next-gen you're going to see a hiring push for a lot of studios, especially junior positions, as the quantity of content is only going up, and while you can outsource (and a lot of outsource vendors are actually individual freelancers in the US or other western countries, they're not all East-Asian vertex farms), it's difficult to outsource the art you actually interact with, so you need in-house positions for that. Literally no one except the government gives a poo poo about a degree, so unless you're looking for a Visa to work outside your home country (which is probably a good idea if you're in Australia or the UK) your prestigious art school degree is only worth something if you drew some badass art on it. Your portfolio is everything. e: as far as specifics of art goes, I would either focus on mobile/social with slick 2d and cartoony 3d, or I would focus on AAA next-gen with crazy shaders and polycounts. I think SWTOR, 38's collapse killing Copernicus, etc, should indicate that "WoW-styled handpainted art" is a bad place to be specializing in, unless you're also hitting mobile specs. That doesn't mean you can't do stylized, hand-painted art (look at Darksiders - they have normal and spec maps all up in a bitch, I'm talking about the "DIFFUSE ONLY HAND PAINTED SWIRLY WOOD BIG CHIPPED ROCKS" poo poo), but if you're making something that's Like WoW, But Better for your portfolio I don't think it'll help any. Sigma-X fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 16:54
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Sigma-X posted:Literally no one except the government gives a poo poo about a degree, so unless you're looking for a Visa to work outside your home country (which is probably a good idea if you're in Australia or the UK) your prestigious art school degree is only worth something if you drew some badass art on it. Your portfolio is everything. I know, it's lame, you end up in package design or whatever somewhere, but - it's still a useful fallback if the industry ever turns to poo poo / you're tired of it. And I have no idea how that side works, as far as degrees go. (code-side, you definitely need a degree)
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Jul 19, 2012 16:57
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I've said here and other places that I think a degree is useful for lateral mobility for when you inevitably get laid off and possibly can't find another position. I'm reluctant to say "no, degrees are useless" beyond pointing out that your degree will not get you an interview or get you an offer, but NOT having a degree could very well PREVENT you from being flexible and maneuverable. I dunno, I guess my views come from one of my professors who was a 2D animator when 2D animation disappeared literally overnight. Everyone thought the industry was a stable job factory as it had generally been growing steadily since Snow White came out, so there were tweeners and animators who thought they didn't have to diversify their skills or get educated because they'd always be able to work in those positions. When Pixar came along and single-handedly changed the dynamics of the entire industry, people's sure-thing jobs became redundant in a flash. My professor could tell stories of his coworkers who were too complacent to learn new and different things and they got the wind knocked out of them pretty hard whereas he had been to school and learned how to learn so he had the skills and the credentials to sidestep into other semi-related industries. I'm not saying that anyone here has any illusions about how the games industry works or thinks that things are all that stable, but if you can find a decent program and a decent school for a decent price that you could do with little or no debt, I'd recommend going for it and taking advantage of it while you're there. Personally, I wouldn't be where I am today if it weren't for the program I was a part of. It gave me a low-risk time to try a variety of things and find what I really liked and decide what I wanted to focus on. I was able to take classes from some amazing professionals and teachers. It put me in contact with some awesome people from some cool companies that I was able to develop relationships with. I got both of my industry internships (at SOE and Disney Interactive) through contacts at my school's program. Going to school also taught me how to work on my work. It's where I was able to observe my fellow students and pick out the ones who were really going somewhere and figure out what the difference was between them and the students who were just flailing around in failure. I learned how to take responsibility for my own education. I learned how to learn, and now I can learn on my own. That said, none of the interviews I've ever had nor the jobs I have received have been because of my degree. In fact, my portfolio is almost exclusively made up of personal projects that I had done outside of my coursework. But I still think that, for me, school taught me all of the stuff that I needed to know to help me help myself. It didn't give me awesome portfolio pieces, and it didn't give me jobs, but it let me learn from professionals what kind of work and work ethics will be necessary in order for me to help myself, and that's something I really needed, and I didn't know I needed it until I got to school. Anyway, there are more swindlers and useless pretentious art schools that are just out to take money than there are good programs with good faculty, but don't write off school for yourself unless you are sure you can go it alone and don't need it. At a good school in a good program, the degree you get at the end can be an afterthought compared to the other stuff you take away from it. tl;dr - Degrees look good to other industries and a good program has much more to offer than just a degree at the end. mutata fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 17:36
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It's true for a lot of other art jobs that the portfolio is 90% of it. I don't have a degree (originally studied comp sci and quit after two years), and spent six years or so in print/web design before switching to games, and the only trouble I had finding a job was right at the beginning of my career when I didn't have much relevant stuff in my portfolio. It takes a lot of work and dedication, especially if you are not naturally very autodidactic, to acquire the equivalent skill and knowledge though. Degrees probably shouldn't be hand-waved as quickly as they are in this thread, because even if you can waltz your way through one, and even if all of that information is out there and freely available for you to digest on your own, there is still a great deal to be said for having guidance and being forced to learn the important stuff so you can't just cherry-pick the cool stuff and gloss over boring things like basic composition and color theory. This is one of the reasons programmers need degrees, because dudes that taught themselves C++ from a Game Programming Gems book will have skipped the boring stuff like measuring efficiency of sorting algorithms or whatever. Basically, yes, portfolio is king, but as an educated and trained artist you will likely have a much stronger portfolio. After working as a graphic designer or some variant thereof for the past ten years, I hit a wall, and decided that it was because I never acquired a proper foundation in the thing I do for a living. I started taking night classes last year (with a hefty scholarship!), and it has had a profound impact on my skills and work, and I am so goddamn glad I did it. I suspect that I am taking it way more seriously now though, being an adult who understands exactly how all of this impacts his career, and furthermore has to pay for it.
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Jul 19, 2012 17:45
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