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Fix posted:Note: It is lovely for GW to sell models with these rules and not provide a link to them on their website. Agreedo. Not sure why there isn't an iPad codex at the very least. Think they would have done that one before Necrons at least.
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Jul 21, 2012 10:14
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Fil5000 posted:And I've never seen a virus grenade assault but I HAVE seen the bullshit that is a vortex grenade. Why is having a 50 pt wargear item which can only be thrown (was it 8"?) and might just move back and eat me the following turn bullshit? This was the edition of destructive firepower like nothing else. S8 D10 wounds assault cannons with a possible 9 shots. S8 2D12 wounds large blast multimeltas. Autowound, no save thunderhammers. 72" range lascannons in every tacsquad if want it. Vortex grenades were fun, but in no way overpowered in the context of the edition. quote:"let's throw all these cool ideas in with no concern for balance!" and it was as terrible/awesome as that implies. So exactly the same way as it is today?
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Jul 21, 2012 10:22
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cat with hands posted:Was this some white dwarf release? Can't find that card in my dark millennium or rulebook stack. Virus grenade is ridiculously bullshit not because it's so effective (it isn't) but because if it DOES go off in a giant blob of troops you'll waste like half an hour on rolling dice because no, you can't batch roll. cat with hands posted:S8 2D12 wounds large blast multimeltas. Pierzak fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Jul 21, 2012 |
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Jul 21, 2012 10:25
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Edit : weird double post.
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Jul 21, 2012 10:28
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Pierzak posted:2" template, actually. 2" radi, so 4" across. Pretty much the 5" large blast have today. God I miss the large flamer template... 
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Jul 21, 2012 10:42
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cat with hands posted:2" radi, so 4" across. Pretty much the 5" large blast have today. As for large flamers, come play Infinity 
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Jul 21, 2012 10:56
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^^^ WELL, HELLO!cat with hands posted:God I miss the large flamer template... Play Infinity all day erry day.
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Jul 21, 2012 11:02
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I was thinking about trukks earlier, at first I figured they just won't surive, but now I don't know... The fact that the damage table is -1 from 5th's, and glances don't roll at all make trukks oddly survivable. They still are opened topped, and they still only have 3 hullpoints, but the likelihood of one pen killing a trukk is not 50/50 anymore, and to be honest trukks died a lot to glances of 6. They won't live long, but getting past one or two turns of shooting is all you need. Kff no longer 4+ hurts, but we don't NEED 85pt KFF anymore since 25% is easy to get on vehicles, unless the table is awful. People were worried about assault dinstances for Mech orks, but if you do the math it's actually better... 6th ed. Trukks 12"move + 12"flatout + 6"move + 6"disembark + ??"assault = 38-48" on turn two. 5th ed. Trukks 18"flatout + 12"move + 3"disembark + 6"assault = ~39" turn two, ~40-45" with Waaagh. 6th ed. Battlewagon 12"move + 6"flatout + 6"move + 6"disembark + ??"assault = 30-40" on turn two. 5th ed. Battlewagon 12"crusing + 12"crusing + 3"disembark + 6"assault = ~33" turn two, ~34-39 with Waaagh. Notice the new minimum was almost the old Waaagh-less standard, and that's rolling snake eyes on the charge distance. Waaagh reroll on one or both dice really help orks get that max charge range during Waaagh. Obviously you don't want to park your Trukks in front of the enemy on turn one, but the flatout move is actually 6" more for trukks than it was in 5th and that almost makes up for the loss of 6" on the disembark move (also a net gain of 3-4" for disembark distance helps too). The real problem comes into being only 12orks. Trukkboys were always a fragile missile since they don't go first and charging a unit of greyhunters could see them die before they swing. Now 5 marine bolters on overwatch kill about one more boy. Even in 5th I think the trick to trukkboy assault is multi-assault, but the opposite. Two trukkboys assaulting one defending unit. The defender only gets to overwatch once and the more boys the better. Obviously if it's something paper thin like Tau or an infantry squad then one Trukk is enough, I am talking about MEQ mostly. At ~150-170pts a unit I plan to roll with 4-6 units and just blitzkrieg their lines before their fliers show up, now that I have 450pts to not spend on Kanz I have so many options!  Tequila Ranger posted:sorry puppetmaster I got other things to do Way to chicken out. You either put up or shut up, there's no third option for a lame comeback.
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Jul 21, 2012 12:13
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will blow your mind.
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Yeah WOM, the problem with Trukk Boyz is definitely the fact that there are only 12. Fearless is loving stupid good now instead of being a drawback so I'd rather maximize the benefits of Mob Rule! Generally speaking, boyz mobs on foot can Waaagh! on turn 2, unless your opponent deployed way in the back (on any deployment type.) That's why I have a bunch of IG artillery with my Orks, to prevent my opponent from turtling up like that.
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Jul 21, 2012 12:23
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cat with hands posted:Why is having a 50 pt wargear item which can only be thrown (was it 8"?) and might just move back and eat me the following turn bullshit? This was the edition of destructive firepower like nothing else. S8 D10 wounds assault cannons with a possible 9 shots. S8 2D12 wounds large blast multimeltas. Autowound, no save thunderhammers. 72" range lascannons in every tacsquad if want it. I should have said "potentially utter utter bullshit" because it was possible for them to roam the map for the game eating everything they landed on. In fairness, I had completely forgotten the insanity that was the rest of the weaponry in that edition, and the vortex grenade was extremely well balanced compared to the assault cannon and it's ilk. I concede the point. And come on, at least now there's been some sort of effort to balance even if it doesn't always work. 2e was like two hyperactive children constantly one upping each other with how awesome their gun/wargear/army was.
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Jul 21, 2012 12:30
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Phyresis posted:Generally speaking, boyz mobs on foot can Waaagh! on turn 2, unless your opponent deployed way in the back (on any deployment type.) I agree that foot orks look interesting now but I wouldn't say they can match the speed. Whether or not they will kill anything or survive the next turn is another matter...
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Jul 21, 2012 12:44
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Of course foot boyz aren't as fast as Trukks. You can drive 4 Trukks within disembark + assault range easily, but how many of them are going to weather that turn of shooting? It seems a simple matter to focus fire the small units down. I would expect half of them (2-3) to die on turn 1, and that would make the rest of them not as effective. This is just speculation, as I have not seen a Trukk on a table since 6th came out. Let me know how your Trukks fare.
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Jul 21, 2012 12:57
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MasterSlowPoke posted:As a fellow Lamenters player, you should know that no one likes the Lamenters, and the Lamenters hate themselves so much that they probably wouldn't allow anyone to hang out with them regardless. Hrm, I've actually got a squad of Assault Terminators assembled but not painted. I might paint them up as Deathwatch with some other Maelstrom Warders as the squad members. I can still attach a Sanguinary Priest to an allied squad, right? Stormtalon would be great but they can't Deep Strike, right? Annoyingly, Codex Marines gets bigger Drop Pods so I might do something cheesy like making my Tactical Marines counts-as Codex Marines to keep Combat Tactics and give them room in their pods for a Sanguinary Priest (My list is fall of Malvolion themed so has Drop Pod Tactical Marines). Some Badab War allies is a super neat idea though! Maybe a Telion lead scout squad of Mantis Warriors in the sweet tiger stripe camo? I do want to keep it all reserves or Deep Strike though, hrm. Fix posted:I remember the jump-pack vortex grenade killer combo. That was back when I was running Harlequins out of a painted up APC model from Aliens and making Flamers of Tzeentch out of dried rubber cement and rolling every single model up at random from the chaos charts. Yeah jump-pack Commissar with vortex grenade was the meta of our games, you had to be able to beat that or just don't bother playing. Karandras fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Jul 21, 2012 |
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Jul 21, 2012 13:06
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MasterSlowPoke posted:Sisters of Battle had a White Dwarf codex released for them about a year ago. I don't know if you can even still buy it? I've never played against a Sisters of Battle army. Do these Acts of Faith make them more unpredictable? How does it affect the game?
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Jul 21, 2012 13:10
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Karandras posted:I can still attach a Sanguinary Priest to an allied squad, right? You can attach Sanguinary Priests to battle brothers all day but the Blood Chalice aura only affects Blood Angels units. Stormtalons can't deep strike but who cares? Does Zooming onto the board destroy your army's theme or something? It's air support for a drop army.
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Jul 21, 2012 13:14
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Baron Bifford posted:I've never played against a Sisters of Battle army. Do these Acts of Faith make them more unpredictable? How does it affect the game? It's not unpredictable. Each unit has a specific Faith-based power which you can activate by spending a Faith point (of which you get 1d6 at the start of your turn) and rolling a die to see if the power activates (it gets easier with attached ICs and if you've taken any losses). The unpredicatability can come from the roll for how many points you get, but Acts of Faith are more of a bonus than something to be heavily relied upon. There are a few characters that make the chances to get Faith points better, such as Uriah Jacobus, which allows you to reroll your Faith for the turn if you don't like what you got.
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Jul 21, 2012 13:26
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Phyresis posted:You can attach Sanguinary Priests to battle brothers all day but the Blood Chalice aura only affects Blood Angels units. Stormtalons can't deep strike but who cares? Does Zooming onto the board destroy your army's theme or something? It's air support for a drop army. Cheers! Yeah, if it is a flyer that stays in reserve then that's fine by me, air support is totally fine and I already have Storm Ravens and Land Speeders so it won't hurt at all. Hrm, if it doesn't affect them at all I probably won't bother attaching it, I might as well just still paint them that way and use them as 5pts more expensive Blood Angels but with all the benefits it entails.
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Jul 21, 2012 13:39
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WhiteOutMouse posted:I was thinking about trukks earlier, at first I figured they just won't surive, but now I don't know... Trukks are still AV10, and against the wonderful world of S7 shooting that everyone out there will be using to pop flyers that's pretty much paper. Plus now that vehicles can be glanced to death all those bolters and other S4 shots within 24" will also be able to affect them. The battlewagon, on the other hand, continues to be stupid good. The difference in turn 2 charge distance between a trukk and a battlewagon is only eight inches, which means the two are practically identical if you take into account the need to protect the trukks with something in front of them. The difference in points costs aren't that much either. A 20 man boyz squad with a PK Nob is 165. A bare bones battlewagon (RPJ, reinforced ram, big shoota) is 105. If you find the points somewhere toss in a grabba klaw to pluck flyers from the sky. But bare bones we're talking 270. A 12 man boyz squad with a PK Nob is 117. Toss in a trukk with a reinforced ram and the price is 157. So two of them are 314. You get four more boyz and another PK, but I wouldn't count on both of them arriving at their destination. That said trukk boy squads do have their uses. Specifically they're absolutely brilliant for saturating your opponent and targeting weak spots. If a battlewagon squad full of boyz is a punch to the gut then a trukk boy squad is a knee to the nuts.
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Jul 21, 2012 15:20
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Given the new Hull Point system I started thinking about vehicles as Monstrous Creatures with no armor saves. Landraider: 4 wounds, toughness 10.5? Trukk, 3 wounds, toughness 6.5? I made a to-glance table next to the current to-wound table for comparison. The double 6 to-wound messes it up so there's no direct comparison but it's an interesting way of looking at vehicles. If you roll better than the table you have a chance to Instant Death  S7 guns kill Rhinos like Bolters kill Orks.  *Wow, Windows Snipping tool make that noisy!* Random thought: Would have been interesting if they did to-wound with two rows of 2+ then said Auto-Wound after that. No more Grots surviving a Meltagun hit to the face.
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Jul 21, 2012 15:28
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Okay, so maybe I missed this earlier but some of the ally chart things are a bit odd. Why are Blood Angels and Dark Angels especially not friends with Dark Eldar but Black Templars, Codex Marines and Space Wolves can ally with them? Eldar and Dark Eldar being battle brothers is odd, I thought they only communicated indirectly to each other through Harlequins occasionally but otherwise hated each other. Black Templars not liking girls and GW not liking Tyranids has been mentioned already. Beer4TheBeerGod posted:If a battlewagon squad full of boyz is a punch to the gut then a trukk boy squad is a knee to the nuts. This seems the wrong way around, I know which one I'd rather stop! Karandras fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jul 21, 2012 |
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Jul 21, 2012 15:56
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So I am sort of a noob (started in January) and playing at my FLGS has lead me to believe that W40k has a lot of traditions and unspoken rules that I am just not getting/no one is telling me about, but here is a question that is just bugging the crap out of me: Am I some sort of degenerate asshat for not painting my army well? I feel like I get a lot of flak from other gamers who put a lot of effort into their paint jobs. The problem is that I just don't like painting. It is not an aspect of the hobby that I care about. I love the tactics and army building and playing the game, but I just hate painting. I suppose I should say that I didn't just basecoat my army. I at least tried. Primer white and black camo stripe...thingys. Basic winter camo. Yeah, it doesn't look great, but it doesn't look completely horrible.
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Jul 21, 2012 16:36
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Some people just put a lot of time into different parts of the hobby, that's all. I wouldn't worry about it. pw pw pw posted:DE vs Orks batrep Thanks for that, it at least gives me some ideas and reinforces much of what I've read about how to use DE forces. My problem is that going after enemy vehicles first is too tempting, and moving only 6-12" with my Raiders (so they can shoot) prevents me moving the infantry into place quickly. It didn't work out too bad in my last game, I wiped out a Tau tank and transport in the first round, but once my transports were in range they were taken out fairly quickly, and my surviving Kabalites were off, running back to my side of the board. My allied Khorne Berzerkers did all the damage after that, running to the far side of the board, taking out the command squad and Tau Broadside, before getting taken out by a swarm of Kroot.
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Jul 21, 2012 16:40
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Question for someone with a contemptor with assault cannons. About how long are the barrels compared to a regular vehicle assault cannon? They look a bit longer on the forge world website. I'm trying to bash together a few of my own and wanted a size comparison.
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Jul 21, 2012 16:47
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Just had my first game of 6th edition using my Eldar against Orks, mostly a Kan Wall while I had 5 skimmers (2 serpents, 1 falcon, 2 prism), a Harlequin unit with farseer ,avengers, dragons and Eldrad chilling out in the back delivering Psychic goodness. For Eldrad I traded for the Divination powers while my farseer kept his codex powers, I'm not really sure about them yet since the codex powers are simple and you can actually choose them. I did have a nice combo with the power that ignores cover and giving that to fire prisms or snipers, shooting through an enemy unit into the backfield of an opponent and him not getting any cover saves is pretty nice. I do feel my shooting got a bit of an upgrade now that serpents can actually shoot their main guns and the underslung cannons, they do die alot faster now, that was very noticable. Assault with Harlequins is pretty good now due to rending taking out 2+ saves. Jetbikes are awesome now due to their speed and always having that extra save handy, that combined with armour saves against dangerous terrain tests they were alot more durable. Next time will probably be against Dark Eldar or Blood Angels, I'm curious how that will turn out.
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Jul 21, 2012 17:10
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Karandras posted:This seems the wrong way around, I know which one I'd rather stop! Exactly. The trukk full of boyz can go further and do a lot of damage if it hits a sensitive spot (say an artillery piece), but it's also easier to stop. Ah hell, it's a tortured metaphor. I tried.
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Jul 21, 2012 17:17
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lockdar posted:Assault with Harlequins is pretty good now due to rending taking out 2+ saves. It's always been that way with rending.
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Jul 21, 2012 17:33
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VELOUR SPACESUIT posted:
As long as it's not bare plastic, screw them. I'm right there with you in regards to what I enjoy most about this hobby, and the time spent painting is not the fun part.
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Jul 21, 2012 17:54
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Hey I think Old Zogwort might not be bad now. Zogwort's Curse has a pretty high chance of failure, but if ICs are going to be everywhere it could be worth using. I think you can even cast it when Zog's locked into combat.
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Jul 21, 2012 18:07
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VELOUR SPACESUIT posted:So I am sort of a noob (started in January) and playing at my FLGS has lead me to believe that W40k has a lot of traditions and unspoken rules that I am just not getting/no one is telling me about, but here is a question that is just bugging the crap out of me: I wouldn't worry too much about it. I was never really into painting when I first started, since the game was new and exciting and all I wanted to do was get an army on the table. You may find that painting is something you start to enjoy later on (I certainly did) but there's nothing to stop you enjoying whatever aspect of the hobby it is that you find interesting or entertaining.
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Jul 21, 2012 19:26
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So, was the old IG Armored Company rules a second edition thing? The friend who got me into the hobby ran one exclusively, and I never beat him. (Even in a 3 against one match.) Of course, it was casual, and we all had a blast. I just felt that the list was extremely overpowered. (Though lovely rolls seemed to have a bit to do with it. My Battlesuits always loved deep striking into things, and Commissar Yarrik just refused to die. I don't think his snipers ever hit either. Always snake eyes.) Edit: As for painting "manners" the general rule of thumb is 3 colors on the model, though it it at least looks like you tried, people shouldn't give you poo poo for it, especially skill level stuff. It is the army of bare plastic, or solid black primer that people tend to look down on.
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Jul 21, 2012 19:34
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Just finished a 1500pt game against Orks and holy hell I feel bad . At the end of the game I had tabled him and had lost a single unit of my own, which I lost to a perils roll I caused. I hadn't run a Tyranid list in 6th because I was waiting for my 2nd Tervigon. I rolled Iron Arm and Endurance on my Swarmlord and Endurance on both Tervigons, along with a few other utility powers. Combined with no longer taking No Retreat wounds I was invincible and I felt bad for it.
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Jul 21, 2012 20:46
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Was he playing a choppy list? Part of the reason I play a shooty mechanized list is because I was mostly playing against tyranids my first year. Nids devour orks in assault.
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Jul 21, 2012 20:50
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Allies aside, Nids are indeed straight up better than Orks now. You got the same CC rules buffs, but to compound that MCs got buffed (poison, smash attacks, flying MCs), nids get access to very useful psychic powers if you so choose, and ork vehicles were made weaker. Challenge rules work to the nids advantage in that kind of matchup, too.
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Jul 21, 2012 20:53
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pw pw pw posted:Was he playing a choppy list? Half and half. Boss on a bike attached to snikrot and boys for backline zaniness plus kanz two Dakkajets, some Lootas, unit of kitted Nobz with PB, Big Mek. Not the greatest list but I didn't expect. Them to fare as poorly as they did. Hive Guard did manage to take out all the Kanz on the first turn, but honestly that's to be expected unless you field a full wall.
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Jul 21, 2012 21:00
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PierreTheMime posted:Half and half. Boss on a bike attached to snikrot and boys for backline zaniness plus kanz two Dakkajets, some Lootas, unit of kitted Nobz with PB, Big Mek. Not the greatest list but I didn't expect. Them to fare as poorly as they did. Hive Guard did manage to take out all the Kanz on the first turn, but honestly that's to be expected unless you field a full wall. How did you fare against the dakkajets? I haven't faced any flyers so far - did they cause much trouble?
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Jul 21, 2012 21:18
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Seeing as he lost a single unit, I doubt they were much of a bother in that game.
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Jul 21, 2012 21:21
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So, because of the new Slow and Purposeful rules, are Legion of the Damned actually not complete poo poo now, absurd points costs aside?
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Jul 21, 2012 21:28
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Cassa posted:As long as it's not bare plastic, screw them. I'm right there with you in regards to what I enjoy most about this hobby, and the time spent painting is not the fun part. Good to know. Also, jadebullet, good to know about the three colors. I'll paint the treads and call it done. So, allies... who has tried what so far? I play IG and I think it would be fun to take some Orks. Distract the enemy with my massive backline heavy support and stop them from advancing with bikes and boyz. Shooty blob + melee blob = sweet victory... or at least that is how it works in my head. VELOUR SPACESUIT fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jul 21, 2012 |
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Jul 21, 2012 21:30
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PierreTheMime posted:Half and half. Boss on a bike attached to snikrot and boys for backline zaniness plus kanz two Dakkajets, some Lootas, unit of kitted Nobz with PB, Big Mek. Not the greatest list but I didn't expect. Them to fare as poorly as they did. Hive Guard did manage to take out all the Kanz on the first turn, but honestly that's to be expected unless you field a full wall. He brought a 5th edition ork list to a 6th edition game. That's like bringing a soccer team to a NFL game and being surprised when they get ground into the turf. EDIT: If you guys have seen this before I apologize, but I just ran into this excellent post about charge distance probability. Very informative. Beer4TheBeerGod fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jul 21, 2012 |
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Jul 21, 2012 21:31
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xtothez posted:How did you fare against the dakkajets? I haven't faced any flyers so far - did they cause much trouble? The jets came in staggered, so their damage was lessened considerably. The first come on (dodging all AA fire) and took out a Biovore before getting Shaken and Immobilized by the Hive Guard. The other went on to get Wrecked by Hive Guard and an Assail beam. Beer4TheBeerGod posted:He brought a 5th edition ork list to a 6th edition game. That's like bringing a soccer team to a NFL game and being surprised when they get ground into the turf.  Also--I went to Fedex Office before the GW store:  
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Jul 21, 2012 21:47
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