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ahhh spiders posted:prototyping ftw prototyping is great until you end up somewhere that is institutionally incapable of producing version 2 of anything and everything they have is a prototype rushed into production.
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Jul 23, 2012 03:42
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wyh yes, of course im writing this with the intention of throwing it away...
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Jul 23, 2012 03:52
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nearly every it job i've had has come through a recommendation by a friend, except this one, which I found on python.org
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Jul 23, 2012 03:52
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is that like monster.com
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Jul 23, 2012 03:53
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rotor posted:prototyping is great until you end up somewhere that is institutionally incapable of producing version 2 of anything and everything they have is a prototype rushed into production. without being all no true scotsman, that's doing it wrong. the thing people forget is that you need to focus on loose coupling rather than extensibility. i throw most of my prototype code away, just not all at once 
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Jul 23, 2012 03:57
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ahhh spiders posted:is that like monster.com http://www.python.org/community/jobs/
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Jul 23, 2012 03:57
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tef posted:without being all no true scotsman, that's doing it wrong. the thing people forget is that you need to focus on loose coupling rather than extensibility. no i mean like as soon as the bare bones is there quick time to move on to something else, we'll patch that ugly poo poo later (the ugly poo poo never gets patched)
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Jul 23, 2012 03:59
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rotor posted:no i mean like as soon as the bare bones is there quick time to move on to something else, we'll patch that ugly poo poo later (the ugly poo poo never gets patched) does that not happen at every company
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Jul 23, 2012 04:01
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ahhh spiders posted:does that not happen at every company i think half
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Jul 23, 2012 04:02
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rotor posted:no i mean like as soon as the bare bones is there quick time to move on to something else, we'll patch that ugly poo poo later (the ugly poo poo never gets patched) you have to hunt down and fix the ugly poo poo, or have good technical leadership where making things better for the sake of making it better is encouraged use automated testing to make fixing lovely stuff low-risk
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Jul 23, 2012 04:03
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rotor posted:prototyping is great until you end up somewhere that is institutionally incapable of producing version 2 of anything and everything they have is a prototype rushed into production. all application architecture has to be done secretly without the boss knowing
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Jul 23, 2012 04:14
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rotor posted:no i mean like as soon as the bare bones is there quick time to move on to something else, we'll patch that ugly poo poo later (the ugly poo poo never gets patched) I should probably check the logs for this one, but I just did this while adding features  passionate dongs posted:this is me right now no, you just need to spread out the tidying up amongst your feature tasks. incremental development anyone? throw in loose coupling and it's easy to replace parts wholesale later on when necessary
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Jul 23, 2012 04:25
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tef posted:no, you just need to spread out the tidying up amongst your feature tasks.
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Jul 23, 2012 04:26
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loose coupling is when you actually encapsulate things, it isn't unique to any language, it just requires discipline. it's not exactly a magic wand, it turns out writing large software is hard and error prone, but it doesn't mean it is impossible. i'm trying not to go full on erlang here (I don't use it), but I've found processes and ipc superior to objects and classes for encapsulation. it's easier to write robust things when your software stops having global mutable state. it really is about discipline though, most software is rotten from the day it started, and continues in that fashion.
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Jul 23, 2012 04:38
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BonzoESC posted:you have to hunt down and fix the ugly poo poo, or have good technical leadership where making things better for the sake of making it better is encouraged
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Jul 23, 2012 04:40
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Gazpacho posted:oh except in the case of an improvised prototype you typ do not have isolatable components for testing whoops get better at making prototypes
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Jul 23, 2012 04:44
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BonzoESC posted:get better at making prototypes
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Jul 23, 2012 04:45
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quotin timequote:If a project offered a value of 10 times its estimated cost, no one would care if the actual cost to get it done were double the estimate. On the other hand, if expected value were only 10 percent greater than expected cost, lateness would be a disaster. so yeah, prototypes being rushed into production is a consequence of software on the cheap also, when managers talk about 'A programmers' they mean people who will work long hours for little to no pay. (and the whole 10x productivity thing is bunk too) tef fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Jul 23, 2012 |
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Jul 23, 2012 04:46
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Gazpacho posted:well that would kinda require the opportunity to revisit your mistakes wouldnt it you will get plenty of opportunity to revisit your mistakes in future projects. if you're lucky, you can make different mistakes.
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Jul 23, 2012 04:47
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and besides that "testing"????? that academic poo poo's not going to impress the senior management, go implement this next batch of features and stop talkin crazy yes i'm ragging on my prev employer again
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Jul 23, 2012 04:53
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do you ask your boss every time you write a for loop? why would you ask permission to write tests?
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Jul 23, 2012 04:59
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tef posted:also, when managers talk about 'A programmers' they mean people who will work long hours for little to no pay. (and the whole 10x productivity thing is bunk too) so true
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Jul 23, 2012 05:00
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having a shitload of unit tests owns
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Jul 23, 2012 05:03
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thinking something you wrote is perfect, then writing a unit test that breaks it, ftw
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Jul 23, 2012 05:03
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my plan is to write book of obvious aphorisms and truths about the software industry, and use it to push my lovely products. and when i'm stuck, i'll just quote tom de marco, just like I did earlier
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Jul 23, 2012 05:03
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i still remember back in school i had a prolog assignment where i had to write some code, and write unit tests for it. the TA used my unit tests to break a bunch of other peoples code, it was pretty cool
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Jul 23, 2012 05:04
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tef posted:my plan is to write book of obvious aphorisms and truths about the software industry, and use it to push my lovely products. this is seriously a viable career thing and you're pretty good at it.
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Jul 23, 2012 05:04
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ahhh spiders posted:thinking something you wrote is perfect, then writing a unit test that breaks it, ftw if only testing and logging weren't the shittiest frameworks in every language
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Jul 23, 2012 05:04
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tef posted:if only testing and logging weren't the shittiest frameworks in every language ugh, logging frameworks
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Jul 23, 2012 05:05
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god cerr is so hard this is a huge pain in the butt, i need a framework
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Jul 23, 2012 05:06
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i use android junit with some addons for mimicking a users finger and it's alright. ios unit testing seems to work pretty similarly
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Jul 23, 2012 05:06
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tef posted:do you ask your boss every time you write a for loop? why would you ask permission to write tests?
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Jul 23, 2012 05:07
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Gazpacho posted:daily scrum/status, what did you do yesterday? oh i picked my nose for 4 hours (not really i was testing my latest feature) "I wrote some code and then I found a couple of bugs, I haven't solved them yet, but i've updated the ticket with the details." why do you bother mentioning that you're writing tests. next you'll be telling people that you compiled it and you found a syntax error. hey boss, can I fix this syntax error, it's stopping me from doing my work
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Jul 23, 2012 05:16
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is this so goddam hard? you're meant to manage the details, not enumerate them
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Jul 23, 2012 05:19
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i'll recommend you for the job if you want it
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Jul 23, 2012 05:21
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did you just tell me to go gently caress myself?
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Jul 23, 2012 05:28
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tef posted:did you just tell me to go gently caress myself?
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Jul 23, 2012 05:33
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tef posted:if only testing and logging weren't the shittiest frameworks in every language
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Jul 23, 2012 06:10
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anything in java seem to get stricken with massive bloat take jedis, it takes this simple as poo poo protocol (http://redis.io/topics/protocol) and bloats it out to 15000 lines of java with an extra 6500 lines of tests. or slf4j which is a facade around a bunch of other logging frameworks, it's 20-bloody-12 why not add some variadic versions of the logging statements (that library can be replaced with 120 lines of java wrapping around log4j which do the same thing, sigh)
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Jul 23, 2012 06:26
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rotor posted:ugh, logging frameworks I'm loving sentry and raven for python.
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Jul 23, 2012 07:49
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